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06 Oct 01 - 01:45 PM (#566271) Subject: Native American Voting rights From: Charcloth I was going through some old civil rights songs & this question came up, When were Native Americans given Citizenship & the right to vote. I am thinking it was in the 70's. Is that correct? |
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06 Oct 01 - 02:08 PM (#566286) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: catspaw49 The entire Native American population got voting rights along with all US citizens with the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Prior to that, individual states gave voting rights to certain tribes. There was a famous case in the late 40's (48?) that gave the Navajo rights in Arizona. Several states followed suit but it's been too long and my memory is too fuzzy for anymore details. I think you can probably find out on the net, but the answer to "when for all" is 1965 for sure. Spaw |
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06 Oct 01 - 03:22 PM (#566316) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: GUEST,Pied Noire American citizenship was extended to Native Americans in the 1920s, but as Catspaw indicated, it was several decades before they all had the right to vote. |
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06 Oct 01 - 03:29 PM (#566318) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: McGrath of Harlow That really must have taken a lot of nerve - taking over someone's country and denying them the vote. |
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06 Oct 01 - 03:54 PM (#566333) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: GUEST,Pied Noire Yep, unfortunately, it has been the case in every nation that has conquered a Native population. On a related note, a lot of nations place various limitations on the citizenship rights of immigrants. In fact, there are some nations that continue to deny citizenship to people who are permanent residents. I won't name names because I don't want to get embroiled in a finger pointing contest. |
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06 Oct 01 - 03:54 PM (#566334) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: katlaughing What took more nerve was keeping an entire gender from the right to vote until early this century, McGrath, native or not.:-) |
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06 Oct 01 - 03:56 PM (#566335) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Gareth Kevin - that asumns there was universal sufferage, either before or after. Gareth |
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06 Oct 01 - 03:56 PM (#566336) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: catspaw49 Yeah, we got balls here Mac. Hellfire, we even got them to fight in the wars, drafted them and everything. And don't forget we gave them back a lot of their land and said they could have it as long as the grass growed and water flowed. But since we needed the grass and water we moved them on for free until we finally, and in true spirit of the WASPs we are, gave them really big chunks of their own land where the grass wouldn't grow and the water wouldn't flow. Can you believe that we gave them the vote too, after all that generosity? Yeah, we got balls. Spaw |
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06 Oct 01 - 04:05 PM (#566338) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: wysiwyg Well, wouldn't it have been a sticky issue to say, on the one hand, that they have sovereignty within certain areas, and but on the other hand, they are US citizens who vote? I do NOT mean it is wrong that all can vote-- just saying, wouldn't that have been a complicating factore in the legalese? How as that handled? ~S~ |
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06 Oct 01 - 04:21 PM (#566348) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Jack the Sailor "taking over someone's country and denying them the vote" Just what country was that? |
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06 Oct 01 - 04:23 PM (#566351) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: GUEST,Pied Noire Citizenship rights corresponded with experiment in disbanding reservations and tribes. Prior to that time the Indians were ideally viewed as sovereign nations outside of the nation. There was then a movement to simultaneously give them citizenship and mainstream them by disbanding the reservations and encouraging Indians to move elsewhere. Of course, it was a halfass process that created a lot of problems. |
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06 Oct 01 - 05:04 PM (#566371) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: wysiwyg Jack, prior to its conquest by Europeans, the country now known as the USA was actually a number of nations-- made of people more than land. Pied Noire, yeah. The bottom line seems always to have been, "Let us help you/don't look now you're getting screwed again." Amid the out-and-out profiteers, even the well-meaning totally underestimated all the forces that would be in play and could not fix what had been broken. ~Susan |
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06 Oct 01 - 06:53 PM (#566421) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Gareth Soveriegn Nations - wern't they known as "homelands" by the Afrikaaners ? Gareth |
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06 Oct 01 - 09:45 PM (#566498) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Charcloth Thanks Catspaw that was what I was looking for. America didn't treat the Native Americans any different than England treated the Scots or the Irish. This is not a perfect world nor a perfect country but at least Americans as a whole unite & try to correct it's faults. America sure beats Afghanistan for human rights |
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06 Oct 01 - 11:53 PM (#566541) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Gypsy Thankee Charcloth! What a nice thing to say to Spaw. |
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07 Oct 01 - 01:25 AM (#566605) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: catspaw49 Well, I always think it pays to remember just a bit. you didn't do it, I didn't do it, but we're not long out of the trees and we still seem all too ready to scamper back up. Spaw |
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07 Oct 01 - 06:25 AM (#566676) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Wolfgang There always have been and there always will be restrictions who's allowed to vote. The question is not if some persons are excluded but only who is. Some former restrictions look funny to us now, like e.g. women not being allowed to vote (I believe they are now allowed to vote all over Europe; since 1990) or men not carrying a weapon (rural Switzwerland, as recent as twenty years ago). Some of today's restrictions will look funny in 100 years. For instance, the right to vote relying on provenance and not residence bewteen countries: In 100 years nobody will understand why a born British living and earning his bread in Germany since 20 years has not had the right to vote in Germany. As for invaders not allowing original inhabitants to vote, there has been the opposite case at least once: Estonia after 1990 has not allowed descendants of the Russian invaders of 1939 (?) to vote. Wolfgang |
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07 Oct 01 - 10:44 AM (#566742) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Bearheart I was visiting some friends who live on a res in the Dakotas a couple years ago. I'm not sure, but I think there are still some restrictions around the citizenship issue. And it has (or had) to do with whether the Native person lived on the reservation/was on the tribal roles. The tribe/res was considered a sovereign nation and members had no rights as US citizens. This came up because I'm an astrologer and wanted to do some charts for them. When they said they didn't have recorded birth times ,I suggested they contact the state division of vital statistics. They just looked at me. Later someone took me aside and explained that, since they were'nt citizens no records of that kind were kept on them. The laws may have changed-- but if you aren't a citizen there are lot of things that most of us take for granted that you don't get. It would be interesting if they are allowed to vote and be political now. It seemed to me at the time highly unfair that our governments fed and state, can make a lot of decisions affecting alot of people who have no voice in those decisions... I love this country and the principles on which it's founded. Too bad we don't live up to them more often. |
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07 Oct 01 - 10:44 AM (#566744) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: Bearheart I was visiting some friends who live on a res in the Dakotas a couple years ago. I'm not sure, but I think there are still some restrictions around the citizenship issue. And it has (or had) to do with whether the Native person lived on the reservation/was on the tribal roles. The tribe/res was considered a sovereign nation and members had no rights as US citizens. This came up because I'm an astrologer and wanted to do some charts for them. When they said they didn't have recorded birth times ,I suggested they contact the state division of vital statistics. They just looked at me. Later someone took me aside and explained that, since they were'nt citizens no records of that kind were kept on them. The laws may have changed-- but if you aren't a citizen there are lot of things that most of us take for granted that you don't get. It would be interesting if they are allowed to vote and be political now. It seemed to me at the time highly unfair that our governments fed and state, can make a lot of decisions affecting alot of people who have no voice in those decisions... I love this country and the principles on which it's founded. Too bad we don't live up to them more often. |
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08 Oct 01 - 03:24 AM (#567266) Subject: RE: Native American Voting rights From: InOBU Hi Bearheart: To a small degree you may have misunderstood you friends. Citizens of Native States have a three part citizenship in the way you have a two part citizenship. They are full citizens of their states and federal government, however their Native Nation enjoys certain soveriegnty and immunities from certain state actions, such as the State can tax sales on Indian land, but has not power to collect that tax due to governmental soverign immunity. Now, some Native traditionals feel and to a degree international law agrees, that the Congress's granting itself plenary power over their origional soverienty is a violation of the rights of encapsulated and or conquored peoples (most of the US origional nations were not conquored by simply encorporated against their will by the growth of the new nation here). As such, they do not comply with some resitrictions on their origional rights. But all have the right to vote, though some do not choose to do so, standing on their belief that they should be wholely soverign. Forgive the spelling, Larry |