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Tune Req: Sir Aldingar

29 Jun 97 - 03:28 AM (#7694)
Subject: RE: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq
From: Murray

Thread #2091   Message #7605
Posted By: Laoise, Belfast
27-Jun-97 - 10:56 AM
Thread Name: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq
Subject: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq

This may be a long shot, but has anyone got the lyrics to the Maid of Coolmore. It's sung by the Bothy Band, but I reckon its an old one. I've got a recording of it but the words are too difficult to make out.

Also has anyone heard of an excellent song "Sir Aldingar". A Breton band called Kornog do it but I think its an old Scottish song. The story is about a Knight that tries to dispose of the Queen by drugging her and putting her in bed with a beggarman for the King to find. Again the lyrics are very difficult to understand - especially as it is sung with a very strong scottish accent.

Gabh raibh maith agat.

Laoise.

See Sir Aldingar for replies to that part of the question

Thread #39841   Message #7694
Posted By: Murray
29-Jun-97 - 03:28 AM
Thread Name: Tune Req: Sir Aldingar
Subject: RE: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq

Sir Aldingar is one of the so-called "Child" Ballads, & is no. 59 in his collection; you should be able to find it in a reasonable sized library. It starts: Our king he kept a false steward, Men called him Sir Aldingar. There's a Scottish version where the villain in Rodingham.[Scott's Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border].

29 Jun 97 - 07:37 AM (#7703)
Subject: RE: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq
From: Susan of DT

Sir Aldingar is also in the Oxford Book of Ballads. I will enter it soon, if no one beats me to it. After getting one example of each of the Laws songs into the database for the April version, I can now get back to filling in the missing child ballads, which I am a lot fonder of.

03 Jul 97 - 10:06 AM (#8014)
Subject: Lyr Add: SIR ALDINGAR (from Kornog)
From: catfeet

After about a week, I've finally managed to dig out my Kornog cassette and copy the lyrics. Here is Kornog's Sir Aldingar. It is not the Child no 57 version. They've mixed Sir Aldingar and Sir Hugh Le Blonde and added some verses.
SIR ALDINGAR

Our King he kept a false steward
Sir Aldingar they do him call
A falser steward there ner was one
Served not in bower nor hall
I love you weel my Queen my dame
The truth that I do tell
And for to lie one night with you
The salt seas I would sail

Away away Sir Aldingar
You are both stark and stout
Would you defile the Kings own bed
And make his wife a whore?
He then stepped out at her room door
All in an angry mood
Until he met a leper man
Just by the hard way side o

He intoxicated the leper man
With liquors very sweet
And gave him more and more to drink
Until he fell asleep
He took him in his arms twa
And carried him along
Til he came tae the Queens ain bed
And there he laid him down

The went him forth Sir Aldingar
And to our King cried he
He said "Your Queens a false woman
As I do plainly see"
He went unto the Queens chamber
So costly and so fine o
Til he came tae the Queen's ain bed
Where the leper man was lain o

"Plooky plooky are your cheeks
And plooky is your chin
And plooky are your arms twa
My bonnie Queen's laid in
Since she has lain intae your arms
She shall not lie in mine
Since she has kissed your ugsome mouth
She never shall kiss mine"

In anger he went tae our Queen
Who fell upon her knee
He said "Ye false unchaste woman
What's this ye've done tae me?
Now forty days I will geve thee
Tae find a knight therin
If thou not find a Knight in forty days
Thy body it must brin"

Then she sent east and she sent west
And north and south between
But never a champion could she find
Would fight the King's knight sae keen
Now when the appointed day was come
No help appeared nigh
Then woeful woeful was her heart
And the tears stood in her eye

Three times the herald waved hsi hand
Three times he waved on high.
"Gin any good knight will fend this dame/
Come forth or she must die!"
No knight stood forth no knight there came
No help appeared nigh
And now the Fire was lighted up.
Queen Ealenor she must die

And now the fire was lighted up
As hot as hot might be
When riding upon a little white steed
A tiny boy they see
"Away with that stake, awasy with those brands
And loose our comely Queen
I'm come to fight Sir Aldingar
And prove him a traitor keen"

Then stood him forth Sir Aldingar
But when he saw the child
He laughed and scoffed and turned his back
And weened he'd been beguiled
"Now turn thee, turn thee Aldingar
And either fight or flee
I trust I shall avenge the wrong
Though I am sae small tae see"

The boy pulled forth a well guid sword
Sae gilt it dazzed the e'e
The first stroke striken at Aldingar
Smote off his legs at the knee
"Stand up Stand up thou false traitor
And fight upon thy feet
For and thou thrive as thou beginnnst
Of height we shal be meet"

"Confess your treachery now" he said
"This day before you die!"
"I shall confess my treachery
I shall no longer lie
I would have betrayed our comely Queen
My treachery is clear"
And the boy has pierced Sir Aldingar
Til his hearts blood did appear

King Henry ran to clasp his Queen
A tear was in his eye
"No boy has ever saved a wife
As fair and true as thee"
They turned to look for the tiny boy
But he could not be found
Then stood before the leper man
And he stood whole and sound

03 Jul 97 - 08:48 PM (#8044)
Subject: Lyr Add: SIR ALDINGAR (from Oxford Book of Ballads
From: Susan of DT

SIR ALDINGAR

Our king he kept a ffalse steward
Men called him Sir Aldingar.
He wolde haue layen by our comely queene,
Her deere worshipp to haue betraide;
Our queene shee was a good woman
And euer more said him nay.

Aldingar was offended in his mind,
With her hee was neuer content,
But he sought what meanes he cold find out.
In a fyer to haue her brent.

There came a lame later to the Kings gates,
A lazar was [b]lind and lame
He tooke the lazar vpon his backe
Vpon the queenes bed he did him lay;

He said, Lye still, lazar, wheras thou lyest,
Looke thou goe not away,
Ile make thee a whole man and a sound
In two howres of a day.

And then went forth Sir Aldingar
Our Queene for to betray,
And then he mett with our comlye King,
Saies, God you saue and see!

If I had space as I haue grace,
A message I weld say to thee.
Say on, say on, Sir Aldingar,
Say thou on and vnto me.

I can let you now see one of [the] greiuos[est] sights
That euer Christen King did see:
Our Queene hath chosen a new new loue,
She will haue none of thee;

If shee had chosen a right good Knight
The lesse had beene her shame,
But she hath chosen a Lazar man
Which is both blinde and lame.

If this be true, thou Aldingar,
That thou dost tell to me,
Then will I make thee a rich Knight
Both of gold and fee.

But if it be false, Sir Aldingar,
That thou doest tell to me,
Then looke for noe other death
But to be hangd on a tree.
Goe with me, saide our comly king,
This Lazar for to see.

When the King he came into the queenes chamber,
Standing her bed befor,
There is a lodly lome, says Harry King,
For our dame Queene Elinor!

If thou were a man, as thou art none,
Here thou sholdest be slaine;
But a paire of New gallowes shall be bult,
Thoust hang on them soe hye;

And fayre fyer there salbe bett,
And brent our Queene salbee.
Forth then walked our comlye King,
And mett with our comly Queene.

Saies, God you saue, our Queene, Madam,
And Christ you saue and see!
Heere you haue chosen a new new loue
And you will haue none of mee.

If you had chosen a right good Knight
The lesse had beene your shame,
But you haue chosen a lazar man
That is both blind and lame.

Euer alacke, said our comly Queene,
Sir Aldingar is false to mee;
But euer alacke, said our comly Queene,
Euer alas, and woe is mee!

I had thought sweuens had neuer been true,
I haue prooued them true at the last;
I dreamed in my sweauen on thursday at eueninge
In my bed wheras I lay,

I dreamed the grype and a grimlie beast
Had carryed my crowne away,
My gorgett and my Kirtle of golde
And all my faire heade geere;

How he weld haue worryed me with his tush
And borne me into his nest:
Saving there came a litle hawk
Flying out of the East,

Saving there came a litle Hawke
Which men call a Merlion;
Vntill the ground he stroke him downe,
That dead he did fall downe.

Giffe I were a man, as I am none,
A battell I weld proue,
I weld fight with that false traitor;
Att him I cast my gloue!

Seing I am able noe battell to make,
You must grant me, my leege, a Knight
To fight with that traitor, Sir Aldingar,
To maintaine me in my right.

Ile glue thee forty dayes, said our King,
To seeke thee a man therin;
If thou find not a man in forty dayes,
In a hott fyer thou shall brenn.

Our Queene sent forth a Messenger,
He rode fast into the South,
He rode the countryes through and through
Soe ffar vnto Portsmouth;
He cold find never a man in the South country
That weld fight with the Knight soe keene.

The Second messenger the Queen forth sent
Rode far into the east,
But (blessed be God made sunn and moone)
He sped then all of the best.

As he rode then by one riuer side
There he mett with a litle Child;
He seemed noe more in a mans likenesse
Then a child of four yeeres old.

He askt the Queenes Messenger how far he rode,
Loth he was him to tell;
The litle one was offended att him,
Bid him adew, farwell!

Said, Turne thou againe, thou Messenger,
Greete our Queene well from me;
When Bale is art hyest, boote is art next,
Helpe enough there may bee!

Bid our queene remember what she did dreame
In her bedd wheras shee lay:
Shee dreamed the grype and the grimly beast
Had carryed her crowne away,

Her gorgett and her Kirt[l]e of gold,
Alsoe her faire head geere.
He weld haue werryed her with his tushe
And borne her into his nest;

Saving there came a litle hawke,
Men call him a merlyon,
Vntill the ground he did strike him downe
That dead he did ffall downe.

Bidd the queene be merry att her hart,
Euermore light and glad;
When bale is art hyest, boote is at next,
Helpe enoughe there shalbe [had].

Then the Queenes messenger rode backe,
A gladed man then was hee;
When he came before our Queene,
A gladd woman then was shee.

Shee gaue the Messenger twenty pound
O lord, in gold and ffee;
Saies, Spend and spare not while this doth last,
Then feitch thou more of me.

Our Queene was put in a tunne to burne,
She thought no thing but death.
They were ware of the litle one
Came ryding forth of the East

With, Mu [ ]
A louelie child was hee;
When he came to that fier
He light the Queene full nigh.

Said, Draw away these brands of fire
Lie burning before our Queene,
And feitch me hither Sir Aldingar
That is a knight soe keene.

When Aldingar see that litle one
Full litle of him hee thought;
If there had beene halfe a hundred such
Of them he weld not haue wrought.

Hee sayd, Come hither Sir Aldingar,
Thou see-must as bigge as a ffooder;
I trust to God, ere I haue done with thee,
God will send to vs auger.

Saies, The first stroke thats giuen, Sir Aldingar,
I will glue vnto thee,
And if the second glue thou may,
Looke then thou spare not mee.

The litle one pulld forth a well good sword,
I-wis itt was all of guilt;
It cast light there over that feild,
It shone soe all of guilt.

He stroke the first stroke att Aldingar,
He stroke away his leggs by his knee;
Sayes, Stand vp, stand vp, thou false traitor,
And fight vpon thy feete;
For and thou thriue as thou begins,
Of a height wee salbe meete.

A preist, a preist, sayes Aldingar,
Me for to houzle and shriue!
A preist, a preist, sayes Aldingar,
While I am a man liuing a-liue!

I weld haue laine by our comlie Queene,
To it shee weld neuer consent;
I thought to haue betrayd her to our King,
In a fyer to haue had her brent.

There came a lame Lazar to the Kings gates,
A lazar both blind and lame;
I tooke the lazar vpon my back,
In the Queenes bed I did him lay.

I bad him lie still, Lazar, where he lay,
Looke he went not away;
I wold make him a whole man and a sound
In two homes ofa day.

Euer alacke, sayes Sir Aldingar,
Falsing neuer doth well;
Forgiue, forgiue me, Queene, Madam,
For Christs loue forgiue me!
God forgaue his death, Aldingar,
And freely I forgiue thee.

Now take thy wife, thou King Harry,
And lone her as thou shold;
Thy wiffe shee is as true to thee
As stone that lies on the castle wall.

The Lazar vnder the gallow tree
Was a pretty man and small
The Lazar vnder the gallow tree
Was made steward in king Henerys hall.

Child #59
@trick @marriage @infidelity
Arthurian overtones: Guenivere was found with Lancelot in her room and sentenced to burn unless a champion would fight for her (trial by combat). Lancelot came at the last minute and saved her from the fire. Also note the merlin hawk. Child finds parallels to every Scandinavian tradition, Spanish, German, etc., but does not mention Arthur. [SF]

From The Oxford Book of Ballads by Kinsley. Child mentions Percy's Reliques (1765) and Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border (1803). The spelling is as it appears in Kinsley.

filename[ SIRALDGR
SF

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 9-Nov-02.

07 Jul 97 - 06:41 AM (#8133)
Subject: RE: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq
From: Laoise, Belfast

Gabh raibh maith agat Catfeet agus Susan.

Catfeet - I haven't a clue how you got some of those lines. You must have a clearer recording than me, or better ears. The last two verses were especially difficult. Many thanks.

Thank you, Susan, for posting the original Child's version. Although it's not the version I've heard its useful to have. I would like to know more about the Child collection of ballads and their original tuens. Where can I find out?

Cheers both of you.

Laoise.

07 Jul 97 - 05:35 PM (#8167)
Subject: RE: Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar - lyricsreq
From: Susan of DT

Laoise The version I posted of Sir Aldingar was from the Oxford Book of ballads. I did not check it against Child. Both Francis J. Child The English and Scottish Popular Ballads (Dover) and Bertrand Bronson's The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads (Princeton University Press) are out of print, but should be available from interlibrary loan since, at least the Child, were widely distributed. I have Child and the abridged Bronson. When Dick, Max and I get to dream wildly, we talk about cutting CD ROMS, not only of the digital tradition, but also of out of print classic song collections, starting with one of Child and Bronson, where the tune in Bronson plays when you click on it. Someday....

07 Oct 01 - 10:14 AM (#566726)
Subject: Sir Aldingar
From: DMcG

I've been looking for the melody for this Child Ballad. The DT entry has no tune, nor does www.contemplator.com; I cannot find it elsewhere on the Net. (I could read most formats, including ABC and MIDI)

Messages above transferred from Maid of Coolmore and Sir Aldingar

07 Oct 01 - 10:27 AM (#566731)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sir Aldingar
From: Sorcha

It's not included in the few tunes that FJC put at the back of Vol. 5, nor is it in Bronson--at least my editions.

07 Oct 01 - 11:23 AM (#566769)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sir Aldingar
From: masato sakurai

In Bronson (vol. 2), No. 59 (Sir Aldinger) is entirely missing, no mention in the appendix (vol. 4). In a comparative study of this ballad, The Ballad of Sir Aldinger; Its Origin and Analogues (Oxford, 1952), Paul Chritophersen writes: "Seven tunes have been recorded in Denmark within the hundred years ..., but they cannot be utilized for this study owing to the lack of tunes elsewhere"(p.12 n.1).

~Masato

07 Oct 01 - 11:37 AM (#566778)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sir Aldingar
From: masato sakurai

Sir Aldingar is the name. ~Masato

07 Oct 01 - 11:58 AM (#566793)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sir Aldingar
From: Malcolm Douglas

The ballad seems to have dropped out of tradition long ago, and no tune is known for it.  The Scandinavian songs such as Ravengaard og Memering are analogues, but we can't tell what their precise relationship to the English story might be (Child and Christophersen notwithstanding); there is no way of knowing if any melodies surviving for them have anything at all in common with whatever Aldingar was sung to.  There is one modern recording of it, by the Breton band Kornog, on their Ar Seizh Avel (On Seven Winds) (Green Linnet, 1985); I have not heard it, and presume that they wrote their own tune or borrowed one from another source.