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BS: I saw it

17 Nov 01 - 12:23 AM (#594498)
Subject: I saw it
From: DougR

Songcatcher is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. I'm stil in shock. I expected so much. It's awful. I'm so disappointed. The premise is so good. It could have been a great documentary, but they tried to make it a drama, and for me, it just didn't work. The acting was terrible, and the only saving grace was the few scenes of original mountain music.

It could have been very good.


17 Nov 01 - 12:56 AM (#594513)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Rick Fielding

God bless you Doug. What did you think of "Oh Brother"?

Geez, I wish Hollywood hadn't discovered traditional music.


17 Nov 01 - 01:07 AM (#594518)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: katlaughing

Everyone's a critic! Just sit back, relax, suspend belief for awhile and enjoy the good bits, eh?

At least, O Brother's CD has been sellling like hotcakes.

Spaw's gonna love this one!

17 Nov 01 - 03:51 AM (#594551)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: okthen


I was hoping the film would open in the UK soon, better still on video. Now I don't care, I'll watch it when it turns up, I'm not particularly looking forward to seeing it now.

17 Nov 01 - 04:08 AM (#594559)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: nutty

Its like reading a book and then seeing a film made of it ..... it rarely lives up to expectations because you already have preconceived ideas about the characters and the plot. If the book was a really dear friend, you often resent any changes the film-makers might have made.
Perhaps, in this case, - you were too close to the music Doug

17 Nov 01 - 01:12 PM (#594708)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Rick Fielding

Suspend belief? Not a chance kat! I've already suspended enough belief while watching:

Five foot five Woody, played by six foot two Keith Carradine (playing his 2000 buck Mossman!!)

Gladiators with perfect hair and even more perfect diction.

Generations of leading men appearing to find Joan Crawford attractive!

Sean Connery portraying an English 007 with a Scots accent you could cut with a knife.

Errol Flynn as Gen. Custer.

Errol Flynn as Robin Hood

An English outlaw with perfect hair and even more perfect diction.

Hell, I'll bet ALL my historical heroes ACTUALLY looked like Ernest Borgnine on a bad day (still more attractive than Joan Crawford though)

Bewdley Fortesque-Dribblebutt (critic)

17 Nov 01 - 01:29 PM (#594717)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Giac

Gosh, Rick, tell us how you really feel. I'll bet you didn't like pomaded Errol Flynn as a pirate either. *G*

17 Nov 01 - 01:55 PM (#594729)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: DougR

Mr. Dribblebutt, that's hilarous! I thought "O Brother" was many times better than "Songcatcher," but George Clooney's overacting really dragged that film down, I thought. Loved the music though!

Nutty: what a wonderful way to describe a favorite book! No doubt about your being a poet, is there?

And kat: I'm with Rick on this one.

Okthen: let us know what you thing of "Songcatcher" when you see it, ok?


17 Nov 01 - 05:38 PM (#594803)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Rick Fielding

Other than:

the editing

George Clooney's mugging (so I ain't a goil, and can't appreciate how cute he is)

and the fact they seemed to drop the songs into (what I thought were) innapropriate places

it was OK.


17 Nov 01 - 06:19 PM (#594817)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Sorcha

(you saw The Light?)......sorry, grin.

17 Nov 01 - 08:06 PM (#594868)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: DougR

S'awrite. :>)


17 Nov 01 - 11:10 PM (#594932)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Little Hawk

How about Errol Flynn in "The Charge of the Light Brigade", thundering into the Russian guns and dying like flies all for the pleasure of spearing an evil Osama Bin Laden lookalike of the! Talk about excitement!

They don't make 'em like that anymore.

Nobody ever died with their boots on the way Errol Flynn did.

- LH

17 Nov 01 - 11:33 PM (#594943)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it

Rick - we goils take offense. I refused to see "Brother..." when it came out because I knew I wouldn't be able to sit still for Clooney's "acting". He was miscast in the "Perfect Storm" too. Saw both on video and enjoyed them because I could talk to the screen when he got too annoying. Wish they had given the part in "Brother..." to Robert Duvall.

17 Nov 01 - 11:57 PM (#594947)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Art Thieme

Dear Kat,

Take a pass on this one kid. You've got well-meaning and decent instincts usually but you're probably off the mark on this one. After really being excited about "Oh Brother" and it's possibilites, I finally saw it---and walked out of the theater. When the cold air hit me, I realized I had walked out of my own house !! I Had to go back inside and turn off my VCR! ;-) I'd never seen a more trivial piece of demeaning tripe. Only Beverly Hillbillies was lower in my estimation when it comes to Little Abner-type sterotypes. It sounds like Songcatcher might be just as shallow. And I had high hopes for this one too. Why is it that these films, like Stringbean with his dumb outfit and Grandpa Jones with his phony mustache and even Uncle Dave Macon had to play the part of a buffoon to get a foot in the entertainment world's door? Scruggs & Flatt behind the inane Bev. Hillbillies too.

Luv ya Kat--but it won't fly.

Yer buddy,

18 Nov 01 - 12:40 AM (#594960)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: katlaughing

That's okay, Art, thanks darlin'. Everyone had said O'Brother was like a video made for the music, so that's kind of what I went expecting and I enjoyed the music immensely. I think it was a good thing, only in that the CD is selling so well, thus introducing more and more folks to something better than the crap on the radio.

It was camped up, big time and I suppose they should have been a bit more serious and NOT done the stereotypical thing, but I still had fun watching it, twice.

As to Songcatcher, I dunno, the best part I found was some of the genuine singing and picking and the lesbian relationship. I thought there was LOTS more they could have done and the woman who played the lead, Janet McTeer, is one of my favourite English actresses. Saw her as Vita Sackville-West on BBC in "Portrait of a Marriage" and fell in love! She is excellent.

I agree with you, really, that it is unfortunate that Hollywood still portrays the "ignorant hillbilly" type for hill people. It's just sometimes I just want to forget the world and going to a movie and suspending belief is what it is all about for me at those times.

Mr. Dribblebutt, perhaps you've just been choosing the wrong types of movies? Might I recommend George Hamilton in "Zorro...the Gay Blade?" No suspension of belief necessary at all and a rip-roaring time was had by all.**BG**


18 Nov 01 - 12:15 PM (#595116)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Rick Fielding


When an official curmudgeon agrees with me on the merits of a very popular movie, I feel energized.

It ain't Hollywood's fault though. All those years when I was listening to (and obsessively learning about) unpopular mountain music, they were doing "Busby Berkely"!

They did the same with baseball as well. (ever seen the Lou Gherig one?)


18 Nov 01 - 02:31 PM (#595185)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: DougR

I doubt a major studio would have done "Songcatcher." Neither stars are big box office draws, though I believe Aiden Quinn is a very good actor, who to me, was miscast in this role. Janet McTeer is also a fine actor, and I felt she did the best she could with a weak screenplay. It was an independently made film, and some of the most interesting films made today were made by the independent filmmakers. Maybe, as has already been said, I was just expecting something much better.

Rick, I think you are right about baseball films. I have yet to see a really good one. And yes, I "The Stratton Story," and the Lou Gehrig one.


18 Nov 01 - 05:52 PM (#595264)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: kendall

I havn't seen Songcatcher, and probably wont. After seeing Oh Brother and The Blair Witch project, I may never go to another hyped flick. Those critics dont know any more about good films than a goose knows about God.

A short time ago, thery showed Dr. Zhivago on TV, and, it was rated three stars, the same as GAG!! Edward Scissorhands! that has to be the WORST film I ever saw.

18 Nov 01 - 06:24 PM (#595277)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Joe Offer

Oh, I thought this thread was about the meteor shower (they called it a meteor storm here).
I saw it. It was very interesting to watch, and I think I must have seen a hundred meteors - but there wasn't much of a plot to it.
-Joe Offer-

18 Nov 01 - 06:41 PM (#595292)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it

But could you dance to it, Joe?

18 Nov 01 - 08:54 PM (#595352)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Art Thieme

Central Illinois was too overcast to see much---but I did see 3 or 4 meteors.

I'll rent Songcatcher & give it a chance when it's released.

Mr. K.----With all due respect, I loved Ed Scissorhands.

I did like "Eight Men Out" and "Field Of Dreams" and "The Natural"----As documentaries I loved the two "When It Was A Game" compilations.

Art Thieme

18 Nov 01 - 10:11 PM (#595386)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: GUEST,Lyle

Funny about perspectives. I suppose if I had gone to see Oh! Brother with the perception that it was a folk movie of the south, I'd have felt like Art. But I went from the perspective of an update of Homer's great works and was absolutly facinated by the movie. So much so, in fact, that I purchased the thing to watch often at home. And each time if find more and better comparisons to Homer's works. And that includes the way G. Clooney (supposedly) overacted.

Guess that's why they make lots of different movies - so everyone can find something to like - or hate!


18 Nov 01 - 10:49 PM (#595403)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: ddw

Gotta go with Lyle on this one. Had no expectations going in, picked up the "based on Homer's Oddessy" in the opening credits and took it as one big joke from start to finish. Worked for me.


18 Nov 01 - 11:51 PM (#595430)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: MAG

Uh, that's willing suspension of DISbelief, friends (from the unrepentant English Lit major).

Art, there was that TV show about the young guys always outfoxing the porko sheriff that makes southern friends foam at the mouth -- what was it called? With the scanitly-clad bimbo draped over a convertible instead of a big house --


19 Nov 01 - 06:03 PM (#595853)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: SharonA

Mag', I believe you're referring to "The Dukes of Hazzard."

19 Nov 01 - 06:46 PM (#595882)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: McGrath of Harlow

Where does it say 007 is supposed to be English anyway? Think about it for a moment, it doesn't seem very likely...

20 Nov 01 - 08:57 AM (#596293)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Steve Latimer

I thought that Oh Brother was okay, but it is my least favourite Coen Brothers.

I will see Songcatcher, if only to start a new thread to piss of 'Spaw. I really have no expectations though.

Baseball movies? Bull Durham was the best portrayal of what really goes on in sports that I've ever seen.

How about golf movies. Other than Caddyshack, which really had nothing to do with golf, has there been a good one? Follow the Sun (The Ben Hogan story)terrible. The Legend of Bagger Vance? Complete crap, as a friend of mine said, "The Natural" on a golf course. Why Bobby Jones, the greatest amateur golfer ever, would come out of retirement to play in a money tournament is beyond me.

Hockey? Has anyone else seen "The King Of Hockey" from the trhirties. It was so bad that it's hilarious. I must admit that the first time I saw Slapshot I didn't find it all that funny. I was still riding buses playing Junior hockey and had seen a lot of the shenanigans and many that could never have been put on screen. Other than Paul Newman's ankle skating it was a very good hockey movie. The Mighty Ducks series is so offensive to anyone who has played or seen more than one hockey game. Complete garbage with no knowledge of or respect for the game.

20 Nov 01 - 12:32 PM (#596471)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Kim C

Well. It's all what makes the world go 'round, ain't it?

I love the Coen Brothers, and I loved O Brother. Sure, Clooney was some goofy, but it worked for me. Like Lyle, I looked at it as one big jokey adventure from the start. Mister and I watched it twice in one weekend.

Haven't seen Songcatcher. Might rent it one of these nights though. what might be more interesting than that, though, would be to read up on Frances Densmore - at least I think that was her name. I heard a story about her on NPR once. She lived out West and recorded several Native Americans singing native songs in their native languages. I want to say it was North Dakota? I don't remember now. Anyway at the time the story ran, several years ago, some of the Native Americans were going to court to retrieve the recordings.

Kendall, I love a good scary movie, and I absolutely HATED Blair Witch. I thought the premise was really good, and they could have done a lot with it, but didn't. Nobody makes a good scary movie anymore. We did rent Hannibal a few weeks back, and while it was pretty disgusting, it did give me a good case of the heebiejeebies.

One of my favorite movies that everyone hated, is Ishtar. Yes, it was silly. Yes, it was goofy. But lemme tell ya, being in Nashville and being subjected to "songwriters" who came to town because someone said, "hey, you're good enough to go to Nashville," I thought this movie was HILARIOUS. I think if they had cast, say, Steve Martin and Chevy Chase instead of two "serious dramatic actors" like Dustin Hoffman and Warren Beatty, the critics wouldn't have been so unkind. Seriously, though, all songwriters should see this movie once. :-)

20 Nov 01 - 01:08 PM (#596488)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: wildlone

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story/line

20 Nov 01 - 01:18 PM (#596494)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Rick Fielding

As far as movies portraying the music profession accurately....I've got a few faves.

The Fabulous baker brothers......they nailed quite a few aspects of the biz.

One Trick Pony....boring, but the music parts were pretty accurate.

'Round Midnite.... scary real.

Let's Get Lost......really scary real.

Spinal Tap.....almost everything was believable if you've been on tour.

Haven't seen the Woody Allan flick about the guitarist yet (forgot the name) but a lotta musicians seem to like it.

My least fave moment from a sports movie? William Bendix attempting to look athletic in The Babe Ruth Story. If it's possible he was even worse than John Goodman in the re-make.


20 Nov 01 - 03:09 PM (#596601)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: DougR

I can't think of the title of the Woody Allen movie you refer to, Rick, but it starred Sean Penn and I thought it was a very good movie.

I can't think of one sports movie that I thought was good. I think the "Stratton Story" was one of the worst but it has a lot of company.

I thought "Spinal Tap" was hilarous.


20 Nov 01 - 04:35 PM (#596673)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: katlaughing

mag', thanks, that's been bugging me. But the way I wrote it, I meant suspend belief in any of the movie being accurate or real.

There was one in the early 70's which got me hooked on Hank Williams, starring his son as him, I think it was just called the "Hank Wms. Story" which I thought was really good. Of course, I knew nothing about him or his life back then, so don't know how accurate it was.

Loved Spinal Tap!! AND, Edward Scissorhands!

20 Nov 01 - 05:29 PM (#596720)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Max

I'm a big fan of the Coen brothers. Can't blame Hollywood though, Hollywood won't have anything to do with them. They're independent filmmakers.

Can't blame Clooney either. The Coens' are notorious for giving actors little or no freedom in their interpretations of the characters. Being very familiar with the Coen Brothers work, I think Clooney did a fine job. His shit-eating grin was fun all by itself.

I liked the movie a lot, but I'm a sucker for Coen stuff and old timey music. And I am a Dapper Dan Man.

Haven't seen Song Catcher yet, though I did see a documentary about the making of it. The music I heard was good.

Accessibility seems to be the issue. We may not 100% like the portrayal of our sacred music, but it does get it out there. Why do we like it? Does it do something for us? I think it does. It represents our history. It conveys important messages. It sounds good and is meaningful without a lot of flash. It's roots. The popularity that results may make it easier to find the music we like in stores. That's it.

The meteor shower was great. I was out from 1:30am EST till 5:30am EST, and just loved it. But I'm a sucker for that too. Even dragged my daughter out and laid her down on a sleeping bag in the middle of a golf course for a while in the cold and dark to see it. Not the whole time, mind you, that would be considered child abuse to some, but for less than an hour.

20 Nov 01 - 05:50 PM (#596740)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Kim C

Spinal Tap is awesome.

I need large bread.

20 Nov 01 - 07:42 PM (#596828)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: GUEST,colwyn dane

Combining a couple of mentions:

Errol Flynn in 'Gentleman Jim'

And a famous line:
'It's injustice I hate, not the Normans'
E. Flynn in 'The Adventures of Robin Hood'


21 Nov 01 - 01:49 AM (#597002)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Seamus Kennedy

Art, I'm afraid I must engage you on a couple of points re: Stringbean, Uncle Dave Macon, Grandpa Jones, Flatt & Scruggs. You omitted Homer & Jethro, Brother Oswald, Snuffy Jenkins, Little Roy Lewis and a few others. Great musicians all, but more importantly, what they did was called "comic entertainment." Just about every string band (and that goes for the Sons of The Pioneers too) had a clown/comedian who was also a fine musician and singer a la Smiley Burnette, but could perform the comic bits which audiences loved. I'd go so far as to put Tommy Makem in that category, too. Not as much of a buffoon, but a fine comedian nonetheless. And Victor Borge. Steve Martin? There's not enough humor/comedy/entertainment in music these days. Kendall Morse, any opinion on this topic?


21 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM (#597222)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Jack the Sailor

Gladiators with perfect hair and even more perfect diction. One Gladiator, from Spain, with an Auatrailian accent.. wins award for best actor?????

Sean Connery portraying an English 007 with a Scots accent you could cut with a knife. I looked for references to James Bond's home country during these movies.. He was always British.. Scotts are British.

Errol Flynn as Robin Hood I liked Errol Flynn as Robin Hood, He had a certian athetic flair.... Now Kevin Costner as Robin Hood that was bad

An English outlaw with perfect hair and even more perfect diction. My beef is all these movies wher the bad guys have English Accents and the good guys sound like melrose Ave. Robin Hood Prince of Theives being a perfect example.

The only time I have ever liked George Clooneyy is in O Brother. No one does pompous ignoramus like George. I liked the movie, bought the DVD. Great music, lots of funny bits, beautiful photography. Not a good idea to take it too seriously though.

Best Baseball movie, Bull Durham. I liked the first Major league as well. Football movie: Brian's Song. Best Hockey movie: Slapshot, but there ain't much to choose from. Best Golf Movie: Happy Gilmore, (Just for the fight with Bob Barker)Best Music Movie: There are lots, Almost Famous comes to mind, Spinal Tap, La Bamba, Amadeus, Rhapsody in Blue,

21 Nov 01 - 02:16 PM (#597379)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Melani

Hey, Rick, Errol Flynn and Olivia deHavilland were perfect as Custer and Libby--at least in spirit. "They Died with Their Boots On" had practically not one piece of accurate historical information in the entire movie, but the feel was right. That's not saying it was a particularly good movie...I LOVED "Oh Brother". Nearly fell out of my seat laughing. And the music was great.

21 Nov 01 - 02:50 PM (#597400)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Ron Olesko

Sean Connery IS James Bond.

Okay, I happened to like Timothy Dalton too.

Lazenby coulda been a contender.

Roger Moore? A joke.

Pierce Brosnan? See Roger Moore.

Take that!!!

21 Nov 01 - 02:54 PM (#597404)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Ron Olesko

The opinions in my previous note are obviously my own.

In a recent thread I complained about people knocking others when heaping praise on something they like. I realize that my comments are contradictory, but hey - this is James Bond!!


(all in fun!)

21 Nov 01 - 03:00 PM (#597409)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: PeteBoom

Fleming's novels featured Bond as a suave English gentleman. Very posh and proper on the surface, very... well, you get the idea. Saw a tape of an interview with him when the first film with Connery cast as 007 was released. It seems he was originally upset with the selection - then after watching on the screen said something like he wished he could rewrite Bond as a Scot. A gentleman, of course, but with the edge Connery brought to the role - Whaddaya expect from a former lorry driver?

Haven't seen Songcatcher - waiting for a really important film, like, Lord of the Rings ;-)


21 Nov 01 - 03:25 PM (#597430)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Ron Olesko


I am also looking forward to LOTR. It is so hard when a film based on book is released. I try not to compare the two. A book can reach depths that a film can't match in the time it has allowed. Even though you are reading another author's words, the minds eye gives the book a personal image that is different for each of us. When we watch the film we are looking at another's interpretation of the same material. The best we can hope for us that the movie is enjoyable and can match some element that hooked us in the book.

See you online for LOTR!!


21 Nov 01 - 03:39 PM (#597449)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Susan from California

I have to admit right up front that I would watch George Clooney mow the lawn. . . but I hated "The Perfect Storm" and I very much enjoyed "O Brother" mostly because I didn't know what it was about and, like others,knew right away that I needed to look for Homerian references. I thoght it was a hoot, and I liked the sepia tones throughout.

As for a baseball movie, I enjoyed Billy Crystal's HBO (?) movie 61 quite a bit.

If you like thought provoking, rent "Memento". It was strange and disturbing, but I liked it.

21 Nov 01 - 03:51 PM (#597454)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: Kim C

Talking about strange and disturbing - try Shadow of the Vampire. John Malkovich at his bizarre best, and Willem Dafoe as the creepy Max Shreck is just about the single greatest piece of acting I have ever seen.

21 Nov 01 - 04:24 PM (#597481)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: lamarca

Years ago, Prairie Home Companion ran one of their mock radio ads for Merle and Mavis Do Favorite Broadway Hits. Robin and Linda Williams ran through (as in butchered) a bunch of Broadway musicals in full bluegrass speed and nasality (try to picture Tonight from West Side Story as done by Flatt and Scruggs...). The ad delightfully (and apocryphally) quoted Leonard Bernstein thusly:

"It's really something for what it is..."

I think many movies are better watched with this evaluation in mind. My family has an affectionate term for a category of films: "StupidMovie", all one word, for those films which have dumb premises, or goofy dialog, or bad miscasting, or serious plot contradictions, but from which we still get pleasure viewing for one reason or another.

I think that trying to compare bits of fluff like "Oh, Brother..." to a serious cinematic masterpiece is a mistake - yes, it got a lot of hype from movie critics and the press, but that's because they get paid to blather serious analyses of everything, including "Dumb and Dumber", "Ace Ventura, Pet Detective", etc.

I've enjoyed the Coen Brothers films I've seen - Raising Arizona, Fargo, The Big Lebowski and Oh, Brother, because I enjoy the quirky non-sequiturs they throw at you, and I like trying to figure out the smug in-jokes and cross-references. Other people don't; that's OK, we don't all have to like the same kind of movies. I guess some folkies' disappointment in films like Songcatcher and Oh, Brother was caused by the mainstream press treating both as revelations of folk music, simply because they (the press) have nothing with which to compare the portrayals and renditions of the music and music makers in those movies, and we do.

That's OK, though - they were really something for what they were!

21 Nov 01 - 06:28 PM (#597552)
Subject: RE: BS: I saw it
From: DougR

Susan: I'm glad to hear someone say they actually enjoyed "Momento." I watched that dude from beginning to end and I don't know if it was the wine, or just my addled brain, but I never did figure out what was going on.

I am a great fan of the Cohen brothers. Especially "Fargo" and "The Great Lebowski." Their latest, "The Man Who Wasn't There," is also very good I thought.