Help: Chord notation

To Thread - Forum Home

The Mudcat Café ^TM
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=41250
32 messages

Help: Chord notation

17 Nov 01 - 07:29 PM (#594841)
Subject: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

nutty was kind enough to steer me to lyrics and chords for a hymn for which I needed some help. Now I need to know, what's the deal with chords being assigned numerical values? Appears to be 1-8. How does this correspond with ABCDEFG? I'm sure there's a simple answer but this aging brain isn't finding it today. Is Roy Clark responsible for this? :)

17 Nov 01 - 07:31 PM (#594843)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: 53

better check with rick fielding on this one. BOB

17 Nov 01 - 07:44 PM (#594852)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: JohnInKansas

Usual method is that the "1" is the key chord, and you count up the scale.

If you want to play in key of C, 1 is C chord, 4 is F, 5 is G, etc.

In key of G, 1 is the G chord, 4 is a C, and 5 is a D.

Using the numbers avoids "tying" your notation to a specific key, and makes transposing easier.

I'm sure you'll get more specific comment soon.

John

17 Nov 01 - 08:31 PM (#594881)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

Thanks, John. That helps a lot.

17 Nov 01 - 08:58 PM (#594889)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

OK, that's not working for me. So I'm waiting for those more specific comments.

17 Nov 01 - 09:11 PM (#594895)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Sorcha

I is the major chord.....whichever key is specified. IV is the augmented chord, VII is the dominant seventh chord......I forget what V is......(I is a fiddlerand chords don't mean much to me) It's just "theory" stuff.......do you understand "standard progression"? Say, "Standard chords in G major"? That is all it is.....if that makes sense. VIII (8) would be an octave chord from the main I (one).......I have no clue how "weird" chords fit into the 1-8 numbering system. I suspect they don't. I imagine they have to be specified--such as "That's an F#m there".........

17 Nov 01 - 09:13 PM (#594896)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Kaleea

Methinks you need to give us more info about the hymn in question. Such as, what is the name of the hymn, are there any sharps (#)or flats (b) in the beginning of the line of music, and if so, how many of which. Are the chords given as a letter followed by a number? For example: G7 or A7 ? Are the chords given not as letters, but as I or IV or V or V7 ? Perhaps our crystal balls need new batteries.

17 Nov 01 - 09:51 PM (#594906)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

The hymn is "Haven of Rest." The transcription I have is allegedly in the key of A. It goes like this: 6 8 8 8 8 -8 / 7 7 -6 7 6 / 6 7 7 7 7 -8 8 -8/ This corresponds to the lyrics, "My soul in sad exile/ was out on life's sea/ so burdened with sin and distressed/...etc. This was at http://www.net/~jackmearl/hymns/thymns/the_haven_of_rest.html

17 Nov 01 - 10:07 PM (#594911)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,Boyd

Just a wild shot in the dark, not knowing the hymn, but I'd guess that this is notation from a chord organ book, and the numbers represent the notes, with '1' representing the bottom note on the keyboard. Judging from the notes, I'd guess it is not a C, because -8 would be a Cb, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

I'd guess: -6 Eb 6 E 7 F 8 G

Boyd

17 Nov 01 - 10:14 PM (#594914)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Kaleea

I could not go to the above given url, I got an error. Sometimes harmonica tunes are notated that way, the number cooresponding to the specific hole in which one would blow or draw to find the note of the melody. OR, I have seen something numbered like that, but without the - (minus sign) symbol, in turn of the 20th century booklets which accompanied the instrument with which it came, such as a banjo, or ukulele, or whatever. Each chord diagram which represented a chord or fingering, coresponded to a specific number for that diagram or figure on the page, but I think what you've found is for the harmonica, and does not represent chords to accompany the song.

17 Nov 01 - 10:19 PM (#594917)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: 53

it would help if you knew the notes in the scale and each number would represent a note, c-1 d-2 e-3 f-4 g-5 a-6 b-7 and that would be the key of c. hope this little bit of info might help you as my brain is also aging. BOB

17 Nov 01 - 10:36 PM (#594923)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

Thanks, all. BOB, I tried that, but the result sounded like no hymn I've ever heard. Guess I'll keep trying. Anyway, it's a lovely hymn and there is no finer version than that on Jean Ritchie's "The Most Dulcimer" album. But before we go down that path...it's the guitar accompaniment I longed to learn. Just sounded like a simple D G A7 or something similar.

17 Nov 01 - 10:40 PM (#594926)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Philibuster

I'm with Kaleea, that looks like harmonica tab to me. Sounds fine on my Marine Band anyways...=P

17 Nov 01 - 10:43 PM (#594927)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: 53

then i'm not really understanding your question, i thought that you wanted to know something about the number system, give me the name of the hymn again. BOB

17 Nov 01 - 11:11 PM (#594933)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

Aaargh! I just wanted lyrics and chords to "Haven of Rest." I now have the lyrics but still need the chords. I thought the weird numbered system must denote guitar chords. Apparently it doesn't.

17 Nov 01 - 11:13 PM (#594935)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: 53

the number system just explains what the chords in different keys are, but you have to at least know the chords. sorry. BOB

18 Nov 01 - 12:48 AM (#594964)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: JohnInKansas

a HORRID THOUGHT

Is it remotely possible that this is harmonica tab???

The number is which hole, a minus means suck not blow?

I have house guests at the moment, but I'll take another look when they're gone.

John

18 Nov 01 - 01:19 AM (#594971)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Philibuster

6 8 8 8 8 -8 / 7 7 -6 7 6 / 6 7 7 7 7 -8 8 -8/....

Working on the hypothesis that this is harmonica tab, then the notes on my C harp would be...

G E E E E D / C C A C B / G C C C C D E D/

Chords in C:
I:CEG
ii:DFA
iii:EGB
IV:FAC
V:GBD
vi:ACE
vii*:BDF

So, heres the probable chord progression.

(I)G E E E E D(p) / (IV)C C A C B /(I) G C C C C(V)D E(n) D/

p=Passing tone
n=Neighbor tone

I would need to hear the song to be sure, but that looks about right.

Heres the song in A:

(A)E C# C# C# C# B /(D) A A F# A G# /(A) E A A A A(E) B C# B/

If you could post the whole thing I'd be happy to figure it all out.

-Philibuster, who is most helpful when tired.

18 Nov 01 - 03:02 AM (#594986)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: nutty

Sorry BigDaddy, there seems to be a mis-understanding here.
If you go to the original postHERE you will see that it states that the music is playing in the key of A so you only need to know the chords associated with that key.
The other notation on the page is for harmonica players so, not suprisingly , won't fit neatly into a chord pattern.

Could someone please listen to the music and see if they can work out the chords ....thanks

18 Nov 01 - 10:02 AM (#595056)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: JohnInKansas

From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 17-Nov-01 - 09:51 PM

The hymn is "Haven of Rest." The transcription I have is allegedly in the key of A. It goes like this: 6 8 8 8 8 -8 / 7 7 -6 7 6 / 6 7 7 7 7 -8 8 -8/ This corresponds to the lyrics, "My soul in sad exile/ was out on life's sea/ so burdened with sin and distressed/...etc. This was at
http://www.net/~jackmearl/hymns/thymns/the_haven_of_rest.html

This link does not work. Can you check it out and see if you can give us something we can look at?

John

18 Nov 01 - 10:07 AM (#595058)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: JohnInKansas

Note:

A tune by this title appears on CD GRCD714, The Most Dulcimer, Jean Ritchie, Greenhays Recordings.

I'm not having much luck locating my CD at the moment, but it's got to be in the pile somewhere......

John

18 Nov 01 - 10:23 AM (#595063)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Jon Freeman

The page is http://www.volcano.net/~jackmearl/hymns/thymns/the_haven_of_rest.html and Phil is right - it is harmonica tab. I can't see any use of chords there - just straight notes.

Jon

18 Nov 01 - 10:34 AM (#595068)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: nutty

I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this *bg*
I thought that having found the lyrics and a midi file of the tune including the key that the tune is written in it would be a simple task for some clever musician to write down the chords that would be needed to play that tune.

At this point I understand why I sing a-capella

18 Nov 01 - 10:36 AM (#595070)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: nutty

PS === HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN

HAVEN OF REST

18 Nov 01 - 11:00 AM (#595079)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Jon Freeman

Sorry Nutty, I'd missed your post giving the link...

Jon

(A)My soul, in sad ex-ile,
was (D)out on life's (A)sea.
So bur-dened with sin and dis-(E7)tressed,
'Till I (A)heard a sweet voice say-ing,
(D)Make me your (A)choice, And I en-tered the (E7)ha-ven of (A)rest.

I've (D)an-chored my soul
in the (A)ha-ven of rest,
I'-ll sail the wide seas no (E7)more;
The (A)tem-pest may sweep
o'er the (D)wild, storm-y (A)deep,
In Je-sus I'm (E7)safe ev-er (A)more

18 Nov 01 - 11:45 AM (#595098)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: nutty

Thanks Jon

18 Nov 01 - 11:48 AM (#595101)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: JohnInKansas

I see Jon Freeman beat me back here. I know he's a better player than I am, but I'll put this up anyhow.

From the MIDI file at the site given, with chords added as it might be played.

The Haven of Rest
Henry Gilmore


     A                      D             A
  My soul in sad ex-ile was out on life's sea
  
     D                      A   G#dim
  So bur-dened with sin and dis-tressed,
  
      A
  Til I heard a sweet voice say ing
  
  D            A
  Make me your choice
  
        D            A
  And I en-tered the ha-ven of rest
  
       D
  I've an-chored my soul
  
         A
  In the ha-ven of rest
  
       A                      G#dim
  I-ll sail the wide sea-s no more;
  
      A
  The temp-est may sweep
  
           D            A
  oper the wide storm-y sea,
  
     A
  In Je-sus I'm safe e-ver more.

If preferred, you can probably use G#m in place of G#dim

John

18 Nov 01 - 01:22 PM (#595157)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: 53

g#m and g#dim are 2 different chords all together so if if calls for a specific chord then use it. BOB

18 Nov 01 - 01:36 PM (#595167)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: pavane

I vaguely recall something called 'figured bass' where a number indicated the bass line, used in hymn singing. But don't know enough about it to recognise it. Maybe that's what it is.

18 Nov 01 - 07:29 PM (#595313)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: GUEST,BigDaddy

Thank you all for your input. Mea culpa for leading some of you astray with my ignorance. A, D and E seem to work for me. Thanks again.

18 Nov 01 - 07:42 PM (#595323)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: Jon Freeman

BigDaddy, there are often more than one set of chords that will work for a song but the good old 3 chord trick is always worth a try for songs in major keys.

John In Kansas noted it in an earlier post. In this case, we know the tune is in A so A is the 1 chord, D is 4 and E is 5 and these will be the most likely 3 chords that crop up in A major.

You can pretty well get there by trial and error - when you hear the chord no longer fits - try one of the others which may well work. After a while, you reach a stage where your ear will tell you just by listening to the melody which chord to change to and you'll probably start "hearing" some minor chords too.

Clever people than me can hear and put all sorts of chords in but that is a basic start that seems to work for a few of us.

Jon

18 Nov 01 - 08:04 PM (#595332)
Subject: RE: Help: Chord notation
From: 53

Hi, I sing it the way Jon Freeman put the chords to it and would love to have someone share with me words to other verses if they have them. I didn't seem to find them on the 'net.

Glenda