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17 Dec 01 - 05:23 PM (#611874) Subject: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Leigha Hi All, I'm a student studying Appalachian music who has found great amusement, assistance, and comfort while reading all of your postings, though I've never posted before. I now have a question for all of you singers out there: Do you personally sing traditional songs about death? If so, which ones are your favorites? Does singing songs (or do certain lyrics) about death make you feel a certain way? Do you make an effort to balance out your performing repertoire so it's not too "death-heavy"? Are there certain occasions on which you avoid singing songs about death? Finally, did the events of September 11th change any of these things?
If you prefer not to post, feel free to send me a personal email at
Thanks so much! I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Leigh Johnson |
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17 Dec 01 - 05:29 PM (#611882) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Leigha Somehow my email was erased. It is: ltj4@columbia.edu. Thanks! Leigh |
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17 Dec 01 - 05:42 PM (#611889) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Check out "The Parting Glass". I believe it wins, hands down, according to past threads. Someone more knowledgible about searching the threads will probably assist you in performing an appropriate search. I'm not sure which "Parting Glass" thread gnu refers to - maybe this one (click)? -Joe Offer- |
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17 Dec 01 - 05:48 PM (#611896) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Favourites, besides the above... Isn't It Grand Boys ? ... High Wars of Germany... I'm Gonna Leave Her If It Takes Dyin'... They're Moving Father's Grave to Build a Sewer. |
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17 Dec 01 - 05:49 PM (#611898) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Clinton Hammond welcome leigha... Songs about death eh... Well, it IS folk music right, so it can't be TOO cheerful... we're the people, the singer-songwriters, who love to see disaster headlines, because it means more material to write about! Personally, I have a very cavalier attitude towards death... for me, it's not really anything to get strung out about... We're all of us terminally infected with this thing called life, and none of us are getting out of it alive... There are a couple of songs that I've had in my show for a while now that reflect that... Sept, 11th? Well, I've chatted with a few other folkies about this subject, and the concensious among my heroes seem to be that no one is even mentioning it more than in passing in their shows... I know I'm not letting the actions of a few zealots dictate to me what songs I can play and when... For instance... at a benefit a few days after, I played WHO DIES and COLD MISSOURI WATER both and the firefighter-folks there loved it!! Ended the show with Mary Ellen Carter to sorta 'take the sting off' as it were, and was nearly carried around on their shoulders afterwards!!! |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:01 PM (#611912) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Joe Offer I think that traditional folk songs are generally quite matter-of-fact about death, and often approach it with a sense of humor. I view if as just another part of life, and don't take it too seriously myself. That's gotten me into trouble in some circles, because some people can view my choice of songs as irreverent or disrespectful. -Joe Offer- |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:05 PM (#611914) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Burke I sing Sacred Harp, an Appalachian hymn singing tradition that is loaded with songs about death. I didn't really like the death heavy songs (And am I born to die?) but after my mother died they developed real meaning for me. For me they look death & God in the face & ask for understanding. There's not always resolution but the very act of asking helps a lot. I find them more honest in feeling than later gospel songs. See the Gospel Sing 9/11 thread for some responsed. This is not performance so I can't really address balancing a set. At a singing people have their own reasons for selecting a tune so we could end up with several heavy death oriented songs just because they have good tunes. Hard to come up with favorites. I love Funeral Anthem and want it at my funeral. Evening Shade, Calvary, Granville, Sing to me of Heaven. Morning Sun has a perky tune & is a favorite of a friend who's laughing at her wrinkles. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:05 PM (#611915) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: vindelis How about 'Please don't bury me in the cold hard ground'? I found it on a Rig the Jig CD. I'm not sure if this is the correct title, but it is the first line of the chorus. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:07 PM (#611916) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Desdemona I think the whole fascination with Death (the great leveller, doncha know) amongst the currently living is akin to what they say about catharsis in the theatre: you get to identify with characters, experience their wins & losses & loves & lives & deaths, and yet live to see another play (or sing another song, in this case!). By sort of "experimenting" with it, we can face one of the most basic things we all have in common, and that all of us, on some level, fear. As my beloved Will Shakespeare put it: if it is not now, then it is to come, etc.---and we just can't get away from it |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:15 PM (#611925) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Joe... nope. If I was more adept at searches, or, perhaps, not so lazy, I would find the one particular one I am thinking of. I recall that Mick posted to that thread about singing TPG to a dying friend... then again, I could be mixing it up because my steel trap memory is rusted open. Wait... it's coming... something like, "what do end your gig with ?" |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:28 PM (#611931) Subject: Lyr Add: THE PARTING GLASS From: GUEST,Desdemona Here are the lyrics I have for "THE PARTING GLASS"; it's also got a nice, perky tune, so important when you're singing about Death!
Of all the money that e'er I spent
If I had money enough to spend
Oh, all the comrades that e'er I had |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:30 PM (#611933) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu I just went back in my posts to try to find that thread and it was before I joined the bloody fray. The only way I could find it is if I could search my real name, as posted under "guest". But, I don't know how to do that. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:32 PM (#611934) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Perky ?! You don't sing it like I do. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:34 PM (#611938) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Desdemona I wish I could hum it for you the way I learnt it (well, I CAN, obviously, but you can't hear it!), and I don't know how to do all that groovy MIDI stuff, alas. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:36 PM (#611942) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Jeri Gnu & Joe, here's the thread and post from Big Mick. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:43 PM (#611947) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Joe Offer This thread (click), gnu?? If not, then how about this one (click)? I used the Advanced Forum Search in QuickLinks. -Joe Offer- |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:47 PM (#611955) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Thanks jeri, but, alas, I did mix it up. Tis not the thread I was thinking of. I am going to get on my lazy ass and search. Be back when I have something to contribute. |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:51 PM (#611958) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Shite !!! I got lucky !!! The thread was "RE: What song do you want at your funeral?". |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:56 PM (#611962) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Clinton Hammond "please don't bury me..." Heh! It's been a long time since I played that one regular... gotta dust it down sometime soon... thanks fer the reminder! ;-) |
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17 Dec 01 - 06:58 PM (#611963) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Burke Here's a link to gnu's Funeral thread. |
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17 Dec 01 - 07:00 PM (#611965) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Thanks Burke. I coulda done that but there's not much time left. |
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17 Dec 01 - 07:51 PM (#612010) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Leigha Thanks for all of your help! Do your audiences react differently when you sing about death? Do you feel differently? (Clinton Hammond's post about this was great) Thanks a million! Leigh |
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17 Dec 01 - 08:04 PM (#612017) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Mudlark Dear Leigha...The only audience I've tempered my death laden 17-18th c repetoire for are the folks at the convalescent home...I don't avoid them entirely (haha....would shorten my set too much!) but I do intersperse with up tunes. Not sure how much they "get," as most of these folks are pretty far gone, but my sense is they don't need nonstop dirge music as a pick-me-up. For myself, my favorite songs have always been sad ones, about death, parting and loss....other side of a cheerful nature, I guess. |
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17 Dec 01 - 09:06 PM (#612048) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Jerry Rasmussen Brother Rick, if you're reading this... people questioned why I would sing Handful of Songs in nursing homes. It seemed like a silly question in a way. It's not that people there don't realize that they're going to do... they are often quite humorous in the way that they talk about it... someone said to me, "The only way you can get out of this place is in a pine box." Many of the old hymns are very encouraging, that deal with death. People especially love Never Grow Old. Sounds good to them. They also like Angel Band. Any songs that speak of a joyful afterlife and reunion are elevating, not depressing. an example: "I'm going to see my Mother You know she died so long ago What a blessed, sweet reunion When I meet her on that shore." From When I Get To Glory My Mother talks with longing about seeing her Mother, who died when my Mother was eleven. The one song we don't do is Burying Ground.. "I wonder can you hear, those church bells tolling repeat twice Way over yonder, in the burying ground." What is hard to realize when you're young and good health is that if you are bedridden and in pain all the time, or so heavily drugged that you can't even stay awake, if you have a strong faith, death can sound like a pretty good deal. Heaven or Intensive Care. Take your pick.. Jerry |
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17 Dec 01 - 09:34 PM (#612067) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Joe Offer Jerry, you reminded me of a very inspiring Austin Lounge Lizards song, On the Other Shore [grin] -Joe Offer- |
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17 Dec 01 - 09:43 PM (#612073) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,McGrath You can't beat death. Not when it comes to a song.
As they say, the only two things you can be certtain of in this life - death and taxes.
Songs about death needn't be heavy either. Even sad songs about death needn't bring you down. The only songs I can think of that really depress me are some ostensibly jolly songs. |
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17 Dec 01 - 10:00 PM (#612081) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Art Thieme Leigh,
At least 75 or 80% of my repertoire---the songs I took seriously and loved--were all, either directly or obliquely, about death and other heavy stuff. Many of the basic truths about LIFE are to be found in tragedy. Comedy is said to be "COMIC RELIEF"-----and if it is relief from something, then that something is the basic tragedy inherant in life. FOLKSONGS have all of it--up, down, sad and happy. But it was the tragedy that drew me in when I found those songs in Chicago's bistros and folk bars. It was the beatnik 1950s. There was NOTHING LIKE IT in all of pop music. All Perry Como and Sinatra sang about was, as Pete Seeger used to say before he aparently decided that all songs are folksongs, "Tin pan alley and pop is nothing but moon, June, croon and spoon." That means love songs and sex !! ------------Here's the rub: The "MUSIC INDUSTRY" was striving to sell it's stuff to EVERYONE----not just folks on the Western ranges or in the lumbercamps or in the Southern Appalachian Mountains or whatever. That just wouldn't do. Why? Because those were very limited markets. Only recently, since the world has "shrunk", has World Music found a world-wide constituancy outside it's place of origin. Love songs and sexual inuendo-- I enjoy some/many of those songs. But the theme of love is universal--and can be easily sold to everyone. Why go for the little markets? It was thought better to leave those to the smaller and specialized business folks and record companies. If one is looking for insight into real life, one must look on the dark side. "Shit happens", despite being a funny bumpersticker, is a true statement. As a young guy, I was looking to these songs to show me "real life"--the likes of which I'd not experienced personally before. To temper the dark songs I used to do, I used humorous tales and jokes. It was also a way to make the old songs I had found relevant to modern people---a way to push the songs forward into the spotlight. And I also did funny songs. Don't get me wrong---I love a good joke or folktale that's well told. (When people started introducing me as a comedian at gigs is when I had to tell 'em to quit it; I wanted to be seen as a serious folksinger and songcatcher who, surprisingly, turned out to be pretty funny to a hopefully pleasantly surprised audience.) I've gone on too long. These are just some of the thoughts that came to me after seeing your good query. All the best, Art Thieme
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17 Dec 01 - 10:38 PM (#612104) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Ebbie I love gnu's mind processes: "What do you end your gig with?" he asks, then on to the correct title: "What song do you want at your funeral?" It's nice to think about our tenure here as our gig! And perhaps it's very close to the truth. Ebbie |
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17 Dec 01 - 10:51 PM (#612117) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com I probably said this in a previous thread but I vote for let me fish off cape st. mary's.. and there's no place on this earth I'll belong when I'm gone...also bury me beneath the willow...Nellie was a lady...Old Black Joe (I can't understand why that is frowned upon)...Oh boys carry me on...Grimsby Town..mg |
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18 Dec 01 - 02:28 PM (#612457) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: M.Ted The more morbid a song, the more I like it(not the only songs I like, but they have a special place in my heart) and I think the audiences I have sung for tend to feel that way too--after all, is not our culture at large, addicted to stories of sad, tortured lives and tawdry, pathetic, deaths? Jon-Benet Ramsey and Chandra Levy could be the subjects of Child Ballads-- I don't perform anymore, but I am sure that, in the wake of 9/11, audiences are still hungry for something real, and evocative of the pain that they feel--it is better the subject is indirect, that is, another building on fire, somewhere far away, or another daddy that isn't coming home-- I am partial to things like, "The Unquiet Grave" "Little Bessie"(a child is dying of the fever, and the angels are calling her name) and all the young man dying of a horrible disease songs, and of course the standards, like "Barbara Allen", "The Banks of the Ohio", "Will the Circle Be Unbroken?", and of course, the surprise hit of 2001, "O, Death!"
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18 Dec 01 - 03:45 PM (#612496) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Peter T. "Bury Me Not on the Lone Prairie" -- the version with seven verses -- is about the bleakest, coldest song I know. yours, Peter T. |
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18 Dec 01 - 07:19 PM (#612672) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Allan S. Omie wise, Little darling pall of mine, The Fatal weding,The FFV Dont forget when most of these were written the average life span was about 40 years. Death from childbirth. A man may have had 3 or 4 wifes. So you see death was a common occurance and accepted. The concept of a Heaven was very comforting. A strong religious faith made comming into and leaving this earth much easier... Good luck on your project Allan |
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18 Dec 01 - 08:00 PM (#612705) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Snuffy All His Other Wives Came In |
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18 Dec 01 - 08:34 PM (#612726) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Micca theres a song that I have been learning,( I sang on Paltalk last Thursday) called," And when I die" the first verse goes I'm not scared of dyin' and I don't really care If it's peace you find in dyin', well, then let the time be near; If it's peace you find in dying, when dyin' time is here, Just bundle up my coffin, cause it's cold way down there. Refrain And when I die, and when I'm dead, dead and gone, There'll be one child born and a world to carry on, There'll be one child born to carry on.
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18 Dec 01 - 11:40 PM (#612865) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: M.Ted Allan, Are you saying that death isn't common anymore? Anyway, for many people, even in the US, the average age isn't too much better than forty, but it doesn't mean that many people don't live to be older. it just means that many are cut down in the prime, by, well, check out the songs-- |
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19 Dec 01 - 12:00 AM (#612877) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Sorcha Geee--I'm not sure what to say here. First of all, I don't sing in public. I ONLY sing when I am absolutely sure I am alone. Then, yes, I usually sing about death, one way or another. Swing Low Sweet Chariot, Can the Circle Be Unbroken, Oh When Shall I See Jesus.
My thought is that I do this to try to make myself feel better--sort of like singing the Blues. When you sing/play the blues you just got to start feeling better.
Perhaps, also, to begin to get myself used to the idea that I really am going to die---and start getting over the fear of it. Not fear of dying exactly, just fear in general---fear of pain, fear of not being here, fear of not knowing, fear of leaving a mess behind for someone else to clean up........ If they play any of that crap (sorry) at my funeral, I WILL rise up and haunt for 100 years!!! |
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19 Dec 01 - 12:09 AM (#612882) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Knitpick Oh, Death, Oh, Death, Won't you spare me over for another year? My name is Death, none can excel, I open the gates to Heaven or Hell. I'll close your eyes so you can't see, That chilly wind is come from me. Oh, Death ... etc. One of my favorite songs on the subject. Bob Clayton |
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19 Dec 01 - 12:44 AM (#612900) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Art Thieme Song titles you want? Here are some of mine. Tons o' death !
Amelia Ehrhart
Lets skip to the "S" & "T" Talking Atom Blues
Sam Bass then there's:
Wreck Of Old 97 and many others... Art Thieme |
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19 Dec 01 - 09:53 AM (#613045) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Peter T. That's right Art, flog it to... yours, Peter T. |
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19 Dec 01 - 10:30 AM (#613061) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: catspaw49 I'm enjoying this one.....and especially Art's contributions. The first post wwas one of the best I've ever read in regards to the psychology of death and humor and the odd interrelationship. So much of the folk tradition is heavily built upon songs of loss, be it death or otherwise, that it becomes kinda' hard to think what there is if we took that away. Even some fine love songs involve death and loss as well as some of your finer ones in the humorous category. Thinking about it, there are seriously few where death/loss are not somehow involved. LEIGH, I hope you're getting what you wanted here and I'm curious now about your studies. Is this part of an individual course, or part of a course of study? Also wondering where you are and how it comes they have this as part of the curriculum......It's very encouraging to see! If you wouldn't mind, I think probably more than a few of us are curious. Spaw |
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19 Dec 01 - 10:56 AM (#613068) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Burke From the e-mail address it looks like Leigh is at Columbia. Leigh, I hope you've found the Sacred Harp singing in Manhattan. I know they had their monthly meeting just about a week after 9/11 & can really tell you what it meant for them. |
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19 Dec 01 - 10:57 AM (#613070) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Bert I don't sing many songs about death. While London Sleeps is probably the one I sing most. I've written a couple though, Plastic Flower Seeds and Kiss for the Road which I sing a lot. I had a gig shortly after Sept. 11th. and didn't sing Plastic Flower Seeds then because I felt it inappropriate as everyone was still in shock. I sing it again now though - life (and death) goes on. Thanks for your song list Art, I need to go through that a few times, there are so many songs there that I don't sing, but should. |
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19 Dec 01 - 02:29 PM (#613172) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Leigha For all of you who have expressed interest, I'm an anthropology major at Columbia University. I'm interested in this specific topic for several reasons. First, I'm from Southwest Virginia, my dad is from Norton, and his family is from Kentucky. I went to many a folk show when I was growing up. So I've always been somewhat close to folk song tradition, though never directly involved in it. I play a viola made by Arthur Conner of Copper Hill, VA, and somehow, it seems to want to play fiddle music rather than the Brahms that I used to try to put it though.... :) At any rate, my investigation here is part of a class called Text, Magic, and Performance, taught by a professor who, coincidentally enough, is also from SW VA. We have talked about the strange voicings in the lyrics of "Oh Death", which lots of my cosmopolitan class was familiar w/ due to the infamous KKK scene in "Oh Brother". And when I started listening to some of my favorite folk songs about death again, I realized that there were some pretty strange things going on it the lyrics -- possession by death itself, visions, directives to the living that allow the dead to "speak" through the singer. But all of these things are meaningless if they can't be placed in the context of performance. So I'm interested in the way singers themselves perceive the process of performance, and the overwhelming response I'm getting here is that these songs of death are seen as another inevitable part of singing about life. These songs seem to help the living conceptualize and understand their own deaths, usually w/o pageantry or fluff. Nevertheless, certain songs do seem to be described as especially haunting or troublesome. (Didn't we all get chills when Stanley sung "Oh Death"? Doesn't that happen rather often?) I wonder what it is about certain songs that does this. The lyrics? The tune? The performer? All three? Anyway, I want to THANK ALL OF YOU SO MUCH for your incredible insight and enthusiasm!!! You've really helped me think through this problem. I am, of course, not finished yet, and I'll listen to any further discussion w/ rapt attention! I'll be sure to let you all know when the (admittedly inadequate) paper is ready, and I could send it to you as an attachment over email if you like. Back to writing! Graciously, Leigh |
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19 Dec 01 - 02:33 PM (#613174) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: McGrath of Harlow On the other hand there aren't too many songs about birth - I think there was a thread about that one time, andn it couldn't come up with anywhere near as many, or many at all in fact. Take away the Christmas ones and even fewer.
I checked with the Digital Tradition keywords list - death came in with 353 songs. Way ahead of all the others, with the solitary exception of "sailor" at 382. (And birth was 3).
Mind, I'm sure that if Art really put his mind to it, he could top that score. |
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19 Dec 01 - 02:34 PM (#613175) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Leigha |
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19 Dec 01 - 02:39 PM (#613180) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Leigha Also, Art Thieme's first post reminded me of a great book I'm reading called "A Space on the Side of the Road: Cultural Poetics in an 'Other' America", by Kathleen Stewart. It's an admittedly academic book, but it's set in the Southwest West Virginia coal-mining region and gives some really good looks at ways of life that resist assimilation into the mainstream American capitalist machinery. You might want to have a look. Peace, Leigh |
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19 Dec 01 - 03:16 PM (#613197) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: An I taught a song called Lord Thomas in my singing classes in the autumn, and it ends with one girl killing another and then lord Thomas killing the second girl and finally himself. Some singers seemed to enjoy singing about bashing her head against the wall ( singing the word bashed with great gusto) and others told me they found it too violent. I think it is harder to cope with songs about death when the songs themselves invite empathy with the person dying. In this case, three people actually die, but it seems that especially the girl whose head was bashed, provoked aversion to the song from some members of the singing group. I wouldn't teach the song if I knew that one of the group members had a recent experience with death or violence. I was grateful to Art , whose first message kind of explained why I find I am so much more inspired to write songs when I'm in trouble than when things go well. Isn't it hard to write a sincere happy song... |
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19 Dec 01 - 04:13 PM (#613236) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: John MacKenzie The worms crawled in and the worms crawled out, They played pinochle on her snout. The lady to the priest she said, Shall I be the same when I am dead? The priest he answered aye! All good cheerful stuff what! Failte....Jock |
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19 Dec 01 - 05:01 PM (#613263) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: McGrath of Harlow This one, An, I imagine.
I think with a song like that it's important that the way it's sung is understated. It should be a case of the song being passed on, as a record, not a dramatic performance relishing the events. The same way it would have to be if it was about something that had happened yesterday.
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19 Dec 01 - 07:15 PM (#613326) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Jerry Rasmussen I first heard Lord Thomas and Fair Ellender by Dave Van Ronk, back in the early 60's. He did that song, Silver Dagger and other murder ballads with great glee, and for laughs. That's one way that people deal with death... like a joke. While they're still alive. There's a certain amount of "whistling in the graveyard going on.." Jerry |
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19 Dec 01 - 08:08 PM (#613351) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: katlaughing Don't forget Little Joe the Wrangler, Billy Venero, and When the Work's All Done This Fall. All tragic, all ending in death. We were raised on them and as young children begged dad to sing them over and over. I love Handful of Songs, a lot because I first heard it on Art Thieme's CD, "The Older I Get, the Better I Was." And, many others which Art included on that CD. (I highly recommend it!) I think part of the reason I love to sing these songs, including "O Death" is because they open up a part of my heart, deep down, and stir up very strong emotions. My mother's generation, at least the children of Victorian age parents in the west of Colorado, didn't talk about death, except in hushed tones. The only time I remember her or her family singing any death songs was at funerals, with the exception of my dad singing the old cowboy songs. Her only living sibling, my aunt, now 92 years old, is struggling against death, mightily, and will still not allow it to be discussed within her hearing. All of which brings me to say, the songs everyone has mentioned are meaningful to me because they do not repress what is a natural part of life. They remind me that there once was a time when folks died at home, surrounded by their loved ones and often "sung" on into the next realm of existence, a much healthier, in my opinion, way of dealing with death than has been done in the recent past and even today, although with the advent of hospices we are seeing some change back to that caring and nurturing through transition. Very interesting subject and thread, Leigh. Thanks for coming here and I look forward to reading your paper. kat |
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19 Dec 01 - 08:17 PM (#613358) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,McGrath I remember kat you were playing the dulcimer in a hospice. I wondered how that worked out, and what sort of tunes you found yourself playing. |
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19 Dec 01 - 08:43 PM (#613376) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Jerry Rasmussen There's another thread in itself. Singing songs about death to people who are in health care centers or hospices. It's a subject that does not have to be avoided, but the perspective that you bring in introducing the song and singing it are different than in a coffee house setting. Instead of being a morbid experience, I more often find it uplifting. There was a woman in the last gathering my group played for who told me how much she loved our singing, and would be sure to come to hear us again, if she was still "here" the next time we came. Glad you like Handful of Songs,Katlaughing... it's a song that gets people talking about what they are going to leave with those they love.. Jerry |
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19 Dec 01 - 11:10 PM (#613437) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: katlaughing McGrath, it worked out pretty well for awhile, but the setup was kind of unfulfilling. Most of the people stayed in their rooms and I played out in a large living area. The acoustics were great, so they could hear me and the staff loved it, but I quit after a time, partly because it was difficult for me to go out during the heat of the day without air conditioning in my car and partly because there was so little actual contact with the people I wanted to help. It did help me to figure out that I want to pursue helping people, one-on-one through transition and to study that discipline, "music thanatology," some more. I posted the tunes I played on another thread. I'll dig it up. Since I didn't sing while playing, some of them may not have known the words, but I played a pretty broad mix of popular/light/sad/serious songs. Jerry, I couldn't help but love that song, esp. the way Art sings it and knowing that he is no longer able to perform, so that, in a way, is his legacy, that and all of the other songs and gems he so kindly shares with us. It is a beautiful song. OH!! Duh! Light just went off in my little peabrain...you are THAT Jerry!!! Sorry, until I came to Mudcat, I was all old cowpoke, some popular folk, and classical. I've learned a lot, esp. due to Art taking me under his wing, but I am still terrible with names and connections! Now that I have realised, please allow me to say that I really DO love your song. It is so beautiful and the friends and family I have sung it for agree. Thanks so much! kat |
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19 Dec 01 - 11:27 PM (#613450) Subject: Lyr Add: THEY'RE DIGGING UP DAD'S REMAINS From: GUEST,.gargoyle As the LaughingCat would say "Nice Thread" "Pretty Thought" "You are so welcome here!" And a barrle-full of plethorial, trivial, vacuous Cat-Crap!
Glad the thread stuck around long enough till I was back in town to lend some substance. Most appropriate for the New York crowd. Thank God we can laugh again!
THEY'RE DIGGIN UP DAD'S REMAINS
They're digging up dad's remains to build a sewer;
Now father in his lifetime wasn't a quitter, a quitter;
Now won't there be some horrible constipation; |
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20 Dec 01 - 03:48 AM (#613515) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Leigha Dear All, I'm writing up my paper right now and rereading some of the fascinating things that you all have written, and I just wanted to say YOU ARE AMAZING, THANK YOU SO MUCH!! In the past 48 hours, I have been witness to one of the most amazing outpourings of honesty, intelligence, and eloquence that I have ever experienced. If this project of mine is any good, it will only be because your comments, suggestions, and questions have made it that way. I appreciate your help so much! Peace, Leigh |
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20 Dec 01 - 04:32 AM (#613525) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,Bo The single real tear jerker for me is FLOWERS OF THE FOREST, the scottish dirge. Sung as a dirge with love for the people in sorrow it is heart wrenching dynamite. There is no other song in my repertoire with mental 'handle with caution' signs. Something in it unlocks everything I thinks thats why I love and appreciate it. Bo |
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20 Dec 01 - 06:39 AM (#613547) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: GUEST,McGrath As they say, look what the cat dragged in. Or whom. "Gor blieme" is a novel way of spelling it. Gor Blimey is a clearer way of indicating how it's pronounced.
Incidentally The DT words of Father's Grave are marginally different - J & H Kennedy are supposed to be the authors, though that's not given in the DT. Maybe a thread to find out about them would be worth while sometime.
I hadn't come across Handful of Songs, so I chased it down just now in the Forum, and found the words - now I'm curious for the tune. Nice song. |
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20 Dec 01 - 11:43 AM (#613683) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Jacob B I wish I'd found this thread earlier. At the age of fifty, I find myself treasuring songs that defy death - the lusty sing along songs that say, "We're going to die, so let's have fun facing the fact." Songs like "Bloody Well Dead", "Who Dies", "You Can't Take It With You When You Go", and "The Good In Living". The concept of "whistling in the graveyard" definitely applies Jacob |
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20 Dec 01 - 02:58 PM (#613785) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: katlaughing McGrath, just curious, why the GUEST moniker? |
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20 Dec 01 - 05:26 PM (#613873) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Peter T. Leigha, one thing worth adding is songs that are not about death, but that are songs that were precious to the dead. In the right context, singing them or playing them brings the dead back into the room, because one can imagine them listening or smiling or whatever. I have been at funerals (one recently) where the most chilling, or saddest or most beautiful or powerful moment was when a favourite song of the departed was played. yours, Peter T. |
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20 Dec 01 - 05:45 PM (#613883) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: gnu Ebbie... while I can take a compliment, I can't take yours. Actually, the resaon I was thinking of "What do you end your gig with?" is because "The Parting Glass" is the tune we always end with. We've been told it's a downer and that we should go out with a rowdy tune.... you know... leave them laughing... leave them banging their glasses on the tables. Uh Uh !!! ... trademark. But, I do agree that it's nice to equate, on some level, our tenure here as our gig. I just wish I had a chance to practice more before the real session. Then again, that's what makes it interesting, eh wha ?
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20 Dec 01 - 05:47 PM (#613885) Subject: ADD: Lord Thomas^^^ From: An McGrath, in answer to your question, this is the version I know: Lord Thomas Lord Thomas arose, early one morning And he dressed himself in blue Saying, "Mother I'm getting married today And I want some advice from you." "The brown girl has house and land Fair Elenor, she has none. Therefore I charge you with my blessing Bring the brown girl home." He rode until he came to Fair Elenor door He tingled at the ring And there was none so ready than she herself To rise and let him in "What's the matter - what's the matter, Lord Thomas?" she cried "What is the matter with you?" "I've come to invite you to my wedding Isn't that good news for you." "Oh mother should I go to Lord Thomas's wedding? Or shall I terry at home?" "Daughter I charge you with my blessing - You better terry at home." So she dressed herself all in her best And most of her dresses was green And every village that she came through They took her to be some queen She rode until she came to Lord Thomas's gate She tingled at the ring And there was none more ready than he himself, To rise and let her in He took her by the lily-white hand And lead her into the hall – and seated her there At the head of the table, Among the gentlemen all Is this your bride, sits by your side? I'm sure she's wonderfully brown You could have married the fairest lady That ever the sun shone on The brown girl, she had a knife It was both long and sharp She pierced it into Fair Elenors side And into, and into her heart "What's the matter – what's the matter", Fair Elenor cried What is the matter with you? Can't you see that I'm pierced to the heart? My heart's blood's a-trickeling through." So he took the brown girl by the hand And lead her outside the hall There with his sword he cut off her head And bashed it against the wall Crying: "Here's the end to three young lovers God send their souls to rest Bury the brown girl at my feet – Fair Elenor at my breast"^^^ I first learnt it as a story told by my father and although it was cruel, we accepted it the way we accepted the cruelness of fairy tales, I suppose. I later discovered it as a song on one of my dads lp's of the Goya Guitar Festival , sung by Cynthia Gooding Line Breaks <br> added. This is Child Ballad #73. This version is different from the several versions are already in the Digital Tradition, but I don't think I'll submit this one to the database. |
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20 Dec 01 - 10:53 PM (#614013) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: M.Ted The dramatic tension in that song is incredible--it deserves much better that a "gleeful reading, for laughs"-- |
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20 Dec 01 - 11:08 PM (#614018) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: Sorcha Peter, "brings the dead back into the room......" That reduces me to tears, dear Peter, because it is so true. So many songs bring back my lost ones...... |
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21 Dec 01 - 11:17 PM (#614564) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: John P Traditional folk songs are sort of like the newspaper: good news is kind of boring; everyone wants to hear about the death and destruction. For some reason, most of the traditional folk songs we find with really interesting music are about death in one way or another. The jolly, funny songs often have rather dull melodies. Singing about death doesn't calls us specific set of emotions, as does singing about anything else if I am putting myself into the performance. I have to feel it on some level in order to perform convincingly. But then the next song rolls around and I put myself into the emotions of that one. We do seem to end up with a lot of these songs. Part of our current list: The Bad Girl Bold Young Farmer Death and the Lady Hangman Lady Gay Matthew Green (a Matty Groves version) May Song Molly Bahn Over the Mountain (a Three Ravens version) Trois Pelerins Two Ravens Three Ravens Unpleasant Night (an Outlandish Knight version) Wayfaring Stranger He Moved Through the Fair John Barleycorn Matty Groves And that doesn't even cover the "young lovers untimely parted" songs . . . John Peekstok |
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21 Dec 01 - 11:19 PM (#614568) Subject: RE: Help: Singing about Death, How and Why? From: John P Oops, that second paragraph should start: Singing about death does call up a specific set of emotions . . . JP |