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13 Jan 02 - 04:23 PM (#627246) Subject: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Dharmabum I see by this weeks TV Guide,PBS will be airing another Ken Burns documentry. This one about Mark Twain. A two parter,Mon/Tues nights. Looks like it might be worth a look. DB. |
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13 Jan 02 - 06:33 PM (#627285) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Jerry Dingleman: The Boy Wonder(inactve) I have the soundtrack CD. It's mostly traditional old-time music with a bit of classic ragtime. Very well played. Jerry |
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15 Jan 02 - 02:17 PM (#628445) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: GUEST,Mark Clark (via public proxy) I watched the first half last night and thoroughly enjoyed both the presentation and the music. I especially loved the sound of the banjo most often heard in the background. It had that wonderful soft, toneful, plunky sound that I really admire. I didn't catch who was performing the tunes though. Jerry, can you fill in any details about performers and instruments? - Mark |
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15 Jan 02 - 02:29 PM (#628452) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: annamill It was excellent!! Can't wait til tonight. Love, Annamill |
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15 Jan 02 - 02:32 PM (#628456) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: SharonA I saw the second hour of part 1, so I hope my local PBS station will rerun it soon. Ken Burns appeared at the end of the segment... just how old is that guy now? He looks like he's aging at about the same rate as Dick Clark (which is to say, hardly at all!). |
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15 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM (#628463) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: catspaw49 I'm pissed because I'll miss tonight and last night was quite good. Mark's comments above would be accurate for me too. I especially liked the rendition of "Hard Times." My PBS will re-air it a few times usually the following week and weekend so I'm hoping to catch it. I'd tape it but we have a new DVD/VHS that has a mind of it's own (read: I can't be sure it will tape it because I'm an idiot). Like others, I love Twain and this was nicely done. I loked his discussion at the end re: Hal Holbrook. Spaw |
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15 Jan 02 - 03:04 PM (#628476) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Jay Unger (who wrote Ashokan Farewell) and Molly Mason, two of our very best folk musicians and composers. They are featured in another Burns' sound track: Civil War. |
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15 Jan 02 - 03:16 PM (#628489) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: catspaw49 Sorry Dicho, but it's not Jay and Molly. Most of the work is by Bobby Horton and Jackie Schwab and a few others. Both of them have also been involved with Burns' other projects. Jackie Schwab is one of the finest pianists I have ever encountered. Her "touch" is absolutely second to none, the very best. It comes across well on recordings but live, she is simply the best. I have never heard any pianist of any genre who can control the instrument to such an extent. Spaw |
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15 Jan 02 - 03:18 PM (#628490) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Gary T If it's any consolation to those who can't see the second part, our local reviewer said that part one (Mon. night) was quite good, and that part two (Tue.) wasn't worth watching. I'm curious to see if others agree. |
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15 Jan 02 - 03:50 PM (#628509) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Jim Dixon I was very pleased that some of the critics confirmed my opinion, that the crucial moment in "Huckleberry Finn" is when Huck is all set to betray Jim – because all his moral training tells him that "stealing" property (a slave) is wrong, and that people who do such things go to hell – but Huck decides he can't go through with it, saying, "OK then, I'll just go to hell." (Or words to that effect.) I know that passage made a big impression on me even at the tender age at which I first read it in a dumbed-down child's edition. I'm still trying to get my mind around the paradox that a person might be doing the right thing while believing it's the wrong thing. Yes, Mark Twain was a profound moral philosopher. |
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15 Jan 02 - 03:54 PM (#628513) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Ron Olesko Historians may have their complaints about Ken Burns, but like Clemens he too knows how to tell a good story. Burns does not always tell linear stories - he shapes the facts to fit his purpose and to tell a good tale. Part 1 really showed the rise of Mark Twain. Without having seen Part 2, I am guessing that Burns has structured the show to put the emphasis on the tragic events of his life - the deaths of family members and his considerable financial problems(which were hinted at in Part 1). Don't mistake my comments - I think this is a brillant documentary as are most of Burns works. He can present material in a way that isn't geared towards historians but rather to the public at large - and the result is he reaches more people than most documentarians. I forget who said it, but there is the old quote "never let the facts get in the way of a good story." Burns is a craftsman and these specials are... well... special! The music is magnificent, but I found myself focusing on the tunes too much. I guess that is my bias towards folk music! This program is superb!! Ron |
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15 Jan 02 - 03:58 PM (#628517) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Jerry Dingleman: The Boy Wonder(inactve) Mark, The main musicians are: Bobby Horton- various stringed instruements and harmonica; Jacqueline Schwab- piano; Ed Gerhard- guitar; Al Petteway- guitar; Fiddlin' Johnny (John Owen Lardinois)- fiddle; Peter Ostroushko- mandolin. Jerry
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15 Jan 02 - 03:59 PM (#628518) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: catspaw49 As you may know Ron, Burns took a pasting around here on the Jazz series, but again, you have phrased something quite well. I don't think Burns focus is on the historian but on the general populace and I think he does that well without dumbing down to the lowest denominator. What Burns does best is to tell history in such a way as to create curiosity and passion for learning in some while not presenting unfactual pieces as many have done. Spaw |
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15 Jan 02 - 04:12 PM (#628522) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: catspaw49 Complete listing from the PBS site regarding the soundtrack CD-----Click Here Spaw |
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15 Jan 02 - 04:27 PM (#628538) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Jay Unger and Molly Mason are included in the Mark Twain credits trailer, so I presume that they will be on the cd as well as Horton and Schwab. In the fine Civil War album, Ungar, Mason and Barenberg handled guitar, Schwab the piano and Ungar did the fiddling and mandolin. Horton played on one track, Dixie. Others who have recorded with Ungar are also credited. I haven't picked up the Twain cd yet but I expect to see them all there. Ken Burns was born in Brooklyn, 1953. His first documentary, appropriately enough, was Brooklyn Bridge (1981). See www.legacyrecordings.com for more details and a video with him discussing his documentary on Jazz. Hal Holbrook's stage performance on Mark Twain (monologue) is classic (also filmed for PBS). When you call him an intelligent actor, you are not voicing an oxymoron. |
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15 Jan 02 - 04:27 PM (#628539) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Don Firth Saw the first one last night and looking forward to tonight. I really like Ken Burns' stuff. He may be the target for criticism sometimes, but he can make a subject downright fascinating. Terrific music. I'm a guitarist, but the banjo stuff makes me want to take up the banjo. In Seattle and environs, KCTS-TV (local PBS affiliate) is rebroadcasting both shows this coming Friday and Saturday mornings (1/18 and 1/19) at 1:00 a.m. Slap a tape in the VCR. Also, KBTC-TV in Tacoma (available in the Seattle area on cable) is broadcasting the first show at 7:00 p.m. on Sunday, January 27th. They don't have the second show listed, but it's probably the following Sunday. Wherever you are, if you missed it, check with your local PBS affiliate. May of them broadcast a show such as this in prime-time, then shortly thereafter rebroadcast it in not-so-prime time, allowing you to do a red-eye or pick it up on videotape. Don Firth |
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15 Jan 02 - 04:36 PM (#628547) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: GUEST,Mark Clark (via public proxy) Thanks Jerry and Spaw. It looks as though Bobby Horton was the banjo player. Now I'll have to go find more of his music. - Mark |
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15 Jan 02 - 04:40 PM (#628552) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: SharonA Don's right; I looked it up and, in my case (Philadelphia, PA area), both parts will be rebroadcast back-to-back this coming Sunday, January 20 at 4 pm and 6 pm EST. That's especially handy for videotaping – none o' that multiple-day programming of the machine! |
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15 Jan 02 - 04:47 PM (#628557) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Jerry Dingleman: The Boy Wonder(inactve) Dicho, Neither Jay Ungar or Molly Mason play on any of the tracks on the soundtrack CD. Jerry |
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15 Jan 02 - 05:02 PM (#628567) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Gee! I'm disappointed, Spaw and Jerry. I'll just cross it off my list. No, I guess not. I like the others too and I can't stay away from music of that period. |
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15 Jan 02 - 11:23 PM (#628794) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: JedMarum I just love Ken Burns. Period. No qualifications. And this series was one his very best. I always enjoyed Mark Twain, but haven't really read him as an adult. I too remember the dilemma Huck Finn faced of turning in Jim or NOT turning him in - and I was very young when I read it. It made a real impression on me. But this series, and part two was every bit as good as part one - was excellent. It humanized the man, recaptured his magic, and retold the tale. The music, of course, was a treat for folkies like us! |
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16 Jan 02 - 02:20 PM (#629123) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Ebbie Ron O, you were right, of course. Part Two did emphasize the tragedies and difficulties in Twain's later years. Poignant and sad. I now want to read or see something on Mark Twain with a different emphasis. I realize that his books of the later period are biting commentary and show his disappointment in the human race but good things also happened to him during those years, i.e., he did have his own home again, with a faithful attendant and his surviving daughter did come home when he was in his last decline. The repeated emphasis on Twain loving attention, I thought, was unnecessary and a little stabbing. After being in self-exile for 9 years and having lost most of what he considered essential in his life, it does not surprise me that he luxuriated in adulation, at the same time that he didn't 'cut his cloth' to suit his audience; as the documentary said, he continued his commentary on the human condition, including his own. In the TV documentary I don't quite understand the view given of his daughter Clara- and I thought the comment on when she got married: "the honeymoon couple immediately left for Europe" was disingenuous, this after showing a photo of the wedding party with Twain draped in his honorary robes. How can we possibly know what correlation there was between the two events? She wrote movingly of her father after his death- one would never guess that she, as the document implies, was estranged from her father. All that said, I really enjoyed the documentary. I think Mark Twain's own statement sums it up: I am the human race in one person. As are we all. Ebbie |
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16 Jan 02 - 03:44 PM (#629184) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Ron Olesko Ebbie, I think your comments shows how successful Burns was with this documentary - he left you with a desire to learn more about the the man. OF course he happens to have a companion book that will offer answers to many of those questions -shrewd marketing!!! The one problem I have with Burns is the fact that I was right in how Episode 2 was going to shape up. Earlier I mentioned that he "never lets the facts get in the way of a good story". Burns shaped the whole documentary to build to a crescendo dwelling on the tragic decline of his fortune and family. Clemens life was full of peaks and valleys, but the documentary painted his life pretty much as a bell curve. While he did make note that Clemens did re-build his fortune to a large degree, the show spent more time painting a picture of a sad old man and almost matter-of-factly mentioning that he was enjoying the company of the early 20th centuries movers and shakers. I still think it was a brilliant production, certainly better than the hatchet job he did on baseball (with all the research you think he would have checked some basic facts) and jazz (one man's opinion). Even with those flaws he at least is responsible for opening up doors and renewing interest in his subjects. Ebbie, you mentioned wanting to see or read something with a different emphasis. One of the girls that was part of his "angels" group near the end of his life wrote a book which later became a decent TV movie. I seem to remember Jason Robards playing Clemens. It really gave an interesting perspective of Clemens, his daughter, and his later years. Perhaps some Mudcatter will shed some light on this. Ron
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16 Jan 02 - 05:48 PM (#629272) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Mr Red Any chance of a precis of MT quotes that crop-up in the shows? eg "Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world, I do it every morning before breakfast!" |
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17 Jan 02 - 01:22 PM (#629730) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie I was at belly dancing class Tuesday night so Mister had to tape part 2 for me. I missed the first half of part 1 because I got the time wrong.:-( Those of you who are interested in Bobby Horton - he is a really swell guy who plays a lot of instruments and knows a lot of stuff. He has done many recordings of Civil War music, and plays all the instruments himself. I don't think he has a website of his own, but anyone who sells Civil War stuff probably has some of his tapes. I have always loved Mark Twain, though I have actually read very few complete works. A favorite story, that I had to read in college, is The Story of the Old Bull (or maybe it's the Old Ram, I don't remember). The gist of it is, someone asks the old man to tell the story, and he tells everything BUT the story. It's wildly hilarious. The part about the woman who loaned her false eye to people is especially funny. I think it's from The Jumping Frog of Calaveras County, maybe.... well... I guess I have another research project on my hands........... |
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17 Jan 02 - 01:56 PM (#629748) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: CapriUni Inspired by the special, I went to the library today and borrowed "The Complete Short Stories of Mark Twain"... I'll look for the story "The old Bull (or Ram)" Thanks for the recomendation! |
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17 Jan 02 - 02:56 PM (#629814) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Jim Dixon Here are some of Twain's essays/short stories that I particularly recommend: "The Awful German Language" will be enjoyable to anyone who has tried to learn a foreign language. "Buck Fanshaw's Funeral" is all about dialect. "How I Edited an Agricultural Paper" I especially recommend reading the stories aloud. It's especially fun when you're laughing so hard you can't talk! This seems to be a very good website: Mark Twain, Edited by Jim Zwick. Practically all of Twain's writings are available online, and this site has links to them. |
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17 Jan 02 - 05:16 PM (#629937) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: catspaw49 Ron, again, you have nailed it and Genie proves it. If Ken Burns does one thing well (and I think he does many) it is his ability to inspire interest and passion for learning more. I love Twain and it made me want to reread a lot of my favorites. Spaw |
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17 Jan 02 - 06:10 PM (#629985) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: SeanM Most of the 'misleading' sections of the Burns treatment (speaking of the second half - I missed the first) can be covered by simply reading Clemens' autobiography. It was written over a few years (and I was somewhat surprised at the lack of mention of it in the Burns piece), mostly dictated and covering fairly extensively his latter life. If any one thing can be said about it, it's that the man didn't pull many punches regarding his own life and how he felt about it. To get a better feel for the man, I'd highly recommend reading it. And as a picture of despair written by someone in the deepest throes - read "The Death of Jean". Clemens wrote that very shortly after the death of his daughter, after the deaths of his wife and his daughter Susie. I did feel that the second half overdid the tragic angles to an extent - as noted above, there were things in his life that made him VERY happy. The "Following the Equator" tour was VERY important to him. Burns briefly mentions that Clemens undertook the task of paying off all of his creditors (when he wasn't required to due to his bankruptcy), but doesn't (that I saw) touch on the elation that Clemens felt upon paying them off. Again, as with Burns' other work: Uneven, but a good piece of work, and as with ANY nonfiction... if it inspires you to read more or research on the subject, it's done it's job. M
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21 Jan 02 - 04:12 PM (#632427) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: SharonA SeanM: Burns didmention Clemens's autobiography during the latter half of the PBS TV special. He did not, however, mention "The Death of Jean"; thanks for letting us know about it. What is the title of the autobiography? Also, I didn't get the impression that Burns "barely mentions that Clemens undertook the task of paying off all of his creditors". On the contrary, I think he covered it quite well. He included several quotes by Clemens, made during the Following the Equator tour, that refer to his paying off his debt, and of course the purpose of the tour itself was stated to be the elimination of that debt. I agree that Clemens's "elation" at being debt-free wasn't touched on much, except to say that he dared to start speculating again, but did say that he gained favor in the eyes of the world for working himself out of debt. Ebbie (about Clemens's daughter Clara): In addition to the mention of Clara's wedding, at which her father tried to draw attention to himself by wearing his Oxford robes (a major faux pas on his part – upstaging the bride!), Burns says elsewhere in the documentary that Clara chafed under her father's domineering ways, and that while she lived with him n Redding, CT before her wedding she spent as little time as possible in his company. Sure, she spoke well of him after his death, but that would've been expected of her as the only surviving family member, and she'd shown that she could be the dutiful daughter (accompanying her parents on their round-the world trip while the other girls stayed in the US, hurrying home from England to be with Clemens at his deathbed, and so on). One thing Burns didn't mention at all, that I was left wondering about, was this: Initially, the bio said that Samuel was the 6th of 7 children, that 2 had died as children, that Henry had died after an explosion aboard a steamboat, and that Orion had taken Sam west to Nevada. But what became of Orion, and what of the other two kids who weren't mentioned by name at all??? Did any of them go on to have children of their own? Did Twain stay in contact with any of them? |
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21 Jan 02 - 04:14 PM (#632429) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Desdemona As I posted in a thread In Search Of This Thread, I saw it in its entirety (my 10 year old son watched with me; the parts about the ex-slave Mary anne Cord were especially heart-rending) & thought it was brilliant. I'd always admired mark Twain as a literary force and source of pithy & biting commentary, but I came awy feeling a great sense of affection for him as a man. Not being an authority (talk about your understatements!!!) on either baseball or jazz, I can't critique either of those films, but I saw "The Civil War" MANY times--usually late at night in repeats on PBS, as I was nursing a newborn baby when it came out!--and have never lost the sense of "connectedness" I felt with those long-dead Americans that I gained from it. My father's parents came from Europe in the '20s, and my mother was an English war bride, arriving here in 1949, so technically speaking the American Civil war is not "my" history, but that film made me feel that it was, and is. Historiographical standards aside, I think that a film-maker that can elicit that sort of deep emotional response for his topic is a rare talent. And I've ordered the Mark Twain CD for myself AND my dad, who'll absolutely love it! |
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21 Jan 02 - 04:44 PM (#632444) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Nancy King I've now seen some parts of the film twice, and missed a few spots altogether, and I think it's fascinating. And yes, the music was terrific. I thought the commentary at the end of part two was particularly interesting. Unfortunately I'm not sure who the commentator was -- Norman Mailer, maybe? Anyhow he was talking about how, in all his criticisms of the human race, Twain always included himself; it was always "we are fools," not "you are a fool." This is very hard to do without weakening your argument, but Twain was a master at it. When I was in college, I took a course in American novels, of which I remember virtually nothing except what a treat it was to read Twain for homework! We read Huck Finn, of course (which I had read before), several short pieces, The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg (the only Twain I don't particularly care for), and Pudd'nhead Wilson, which I really liked. As I recall it involves an early application of fingerprint technology, and it's full of pithy sayings. Guess I'll have to read it again! Cheers, Nancy |
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21 Jan 02 - 04:49 PM (#632448) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: Desdemona I think it was Arthur Miller; there was some great commentary about the man & his work, etc., in the film---scholars, writers, etc. |
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22 Jan 02 - 10:04 AM (#632965) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: SharonA I especially enjoyed Hal Holbrook's comments. Holbrook, of course, is famous for his remarkable one-man shows in which he plays Twain. Ken Burns, in the final minutes of his PBS special, discussed the decision not to have Holbrook read passages from Twain's writings: he said that having someone else do the readings freed Burns to interview Holbrook without confusing the viewer. I don't know if I would have been confused, but I was not impressed with most of the readings that were done by the other actor (I don't recall his name; he's a character actor). Hal Holbrook's comments, however, were riveting to me because of the depth and intimacy of character study that Holbrook has done in order to make audiences believe that Twain is actually there on stage before them, still living and breathing and cracking wise. His portrayal and his commentary make it clear that Holbrook knows Twain as no scholar knows him, as perhaps no one else alive today knows him. Does anyone know if Hal Holbrook has written anything about Twain, or about his own experiences portraying Twain? |
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22 Jan 02 - 10:06 AM (#632967) Subject: RE: BS: K.Burns / Mark Twain From: SharonA By the way, here's a link to the other thread currently on the Forum about the Mark Twain program on PBS: Mark Twain on PBS |