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25 Jan 02 - 10:51 AM (#635268) Subject: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: GUEST Thought I'd start a part deux. I agree with Bobert's last post in the previous thread. The "let's repeal Social Security" ploy isn't even the case here. Republicans know they can't outright repeal Social Security. But now they have an even better idea--use free government money to make obscene profits investing on Wall Street. Frontline on PBS just ran a program on how the big investment bankers made obscene single day profits taking Internet companies public and "flipping" their shares when the IPO hit the trading floor. Not a one of them was involved in long-term investing, or gave one whit about the technology sector. To them, it was a case where clients were promised set-aside shares of huge blocks of company stocks at $13 at opening bell, which were then "flipped" and sold off within hours or days at $100+ per share. Of course, Joe and Jane Everyperson investors lost their shirts, savings, etc on these deals because by the time there were any shares available to buy, they were advised (by the Wall Street analysts) to buy them at the top price per share when the corporate investors had already flipped their shares and taken all the profit that was going to be taken out of these corporations before they went belly up. The stock analysts acting as cheerleaders worked for the investment bankers (Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, et al--all the "good" Wall Street houses), and when a former director of the SEC was asked about this, his response was "no comment." What a surprise. The Social Security Fund for Investors the Bush administration is pushing would be nothing more than another scam for Dubya's wealthy buddies. Can you imagine, with the amount of money that goes into Social Security, how much scandal that kind of money would end up buying? The answer isn't just campaign finance reform. We need sweeping reforms and strict regulations of Wall Street trading and investing. The SEC is a joke. It ain't even a case of the fox guarding the henhouse. It is a question of the henhouse guard being fired by corporate government, who then through open the door to the country's foxes, who just go on in and help themselves to the eggs, the hens, and anything that crawls. That is what happened under Shrub 1's watch with the savings and loan and HUD scandals. The good ole boys made a pile of money "legally". Of course, we all know what they did was immoral, indefensible greed and graft. But hey! They wrote the laws just so's they could get away with robbing us legally! Nothing wrong with taking profits, now is there sez the hear no evil, see no evil, do nothing Bush administration? |
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25 Jan 02 - 11:00 AM (#635272) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: GUEST And what is UP with that Republican Texas connection, eh? The most deeply entrenched politicians (at least, till the GAO can get hold of Cheney's records) in this scandal so far are all Texas politicians, lawyers, and corporados. Phil Gramm. Tom DeLay. The Bush family. US Attorney office's entire Houston staff recusing itself. The Republican public utilities commissioner appointed by Bush's gubernatorial successor being forced to resign. Yeah, I agree that the Dem sleaze bags are bad. But looking at who has been implicated in the Enron scandal, the Republicans are in much deeper, for much longer, and for most of the money and political influence. Again--we haven't even seen what the Cheney meeting notes will reveal about the Bush/Cheney "energy policy" when the obscene profits were taken with the manufactured "energy crisis" in the West last year. Remember--Bush said doing nothing was the right thing to do then, too! |
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25 Jan 02 - 01:07 PM (#635364) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR Another "Guest" starting such a thread? Surprise! DougR |
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25 Jan 02 - 01:11 PM (#635372) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: GUEST Left your facts at home again, DougR? |
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25 Jan 02 - 04:19 PM (#635517) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Mark Clark It seems as though any time a pile of money gets big enough to notice, someone comes along to take it. The savings & loan debacle was one of those deals. The savings of millions of U.S. families was “loaned” to a gang of developers who managed to make the money vanaish faster than Harry Houdini. Fortunately the money was insured by the U.S. Government so all the government had to do was demand that millions of U.S. families fork over the missing money so it could be restored to the S&Ls. Sounds fair. Now with individual retirement accounts (IRAs) and 401K (savings invested in stock) plans, thousands of millions of dollars each week are placed into retirement accounts. It doesn't matter whether the market is up or down, all that money will be used to buy stocks and securities. It doesn't matter how crappy the stocks are, the investment managers don't have any option to just sit on the money until the investment climate is better, it goes directly into corporate coffers. Then, BANG! Suddenly, the money in corporate coffers is all gone and so is everyone's retirement account... go figure. But wait... there is a solution, well two solutions actually. First we put our Social Security tax money in the corporate coffers because the corporations have shown such outstanding stewardship, next we'll fix the U.S. constitution so our children can prey about the problem whenever they are told to do so. Now if we can find a legal basis for silencing all critics of the U.S. administration, all will be well. - Mark |
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25 Jan 02 - 04:27 PM (#635530) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Mark Clark Or do you say pray? <g> |
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25 Jan 02 - 04:35 PM (#635541) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR Well, Mark, I suppose you could stick all the money in a can and bury it in your back yard. :>) DougR |
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25 Jan 02 - 04:37 PM (#635545) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Mark Clark At least I'd have some chance of seeing it again. <g> - Mark |
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25 Jan 02 - 04:41 PM (#635550) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR True (provided you don't have gophers. Those critters will eat anything) |
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25 Jan 02 - 04:42 PM (#635551) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert Yo, Doug. That speed reading course you took ain't doing you no good. I didn't not even suggest that the Social Security system is fine the way it is. All I said, is that letting rich folk bleed it ain't going to make it any healthier. Might of fact this entire "trickle down" economics is just bad business. It didn't work in the 80's and won't work now. What we need is some "trickle UP' economics.
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25 Jan 02 - 04:47 PM (#635559) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR Bobert: Shall we just agree to disagree? :>) DougR |
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25 Jan 02 - 06:16 PM (#635634) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert Works fir me, brother. If you're ever in the D.C. area, let me know and we'll go out and have a few chilly ones, talk music and stay away from politics? Deal? |
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25 Jan 02 - 06:32 PM (#635644) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Gareth Trouble is if yer read the French version of History Napolean won at Waterloo !!! |
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25 Jan 02 - 09:35 PM (#635751) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: tremodt when Ro1sin was sacked by people saying that he posted the lamest question about the WTC inferior building plans please notice than this thread that was started by I has drawn the most responses in a long time, maybe he is not so lame ro1sin ron |
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25 Jan 02 - 10:19 PM (#635770) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert Yo Ro, Hey, man, this thread will just go off into eternity... Just 'cause me and Doug kissed and made up don't matter 'cause this is the biggest story on the Planet right now. Ain't nothin' lame about it. Now, being new to the Catbox, you might be the "lamest" poster in Catsburg history, but this thread had kept a few folks out of the pool hall for a few days, as my 87 year old dad says. |
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25 Jan 02 - 11:53 PM (#635843) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR You bet, Bobert, your on! There use to be the Shamrock Grill in Georgetown. Is it still there? Great Bluegrass music! DougR |
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26 Jan 02 - 07:27 PM (#636333) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: CarolC For Waterloo, Part I, click here. |
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26 Jan 02 - 10:45 PM (#636454) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert Yo Doug. I remember the Shamrock right there on M St on Georgetown. The "Country Gentlemen" were the club band for probably close to 30 years, and yes they played bluegrass. The Seldom Scene is also one of D.C.'s longest surviving band. I remember seeing them in the mid 60's when they went by "Corey, and the Seldom Scene". But there's more going on around D.C than bluegrass. Lots of good blues clubs.... |
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26 Jan 02 - 11:52 PM (#636470) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR Bobert: I saw a Japanese Blue Grass group at the Shamrock back in the early 70's. They didn't speak English but had learned all their songs by listening to LP's. And they were very good too! I remember, particularly, "Blue Moon of Kentucky," and they sounded great. I learned later they didn't understand a thing they were singing though. Wasn't Ricky Skaggs a member of the "Country Gentlemen" at one time. I'm pretty sure I saw him there one time too. DougR |
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27 Jan 02 - 10:22 AM (#636582) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: GUEST There is a great article on this at Salon.com: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/01/18/enron_scandal/index_np.html As the articles says, it isn't just about what the Texas politicians (Bush, et al) did for Enron when the corporation was on it's way down, but what they did for it when it was on it's way up. |
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27 Jan 02 - 07:45 PM (#636831) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: kendall Can you imagine the uproar if Clinton was still president? Most of this crap will never see the light of day, because the white house is stonewalling it, and the GAO can sue and be damned, the adminitration owns the Supreme court too. I wonder too if the voters will remember all this next fall when all those republicans come up for re election. |
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27 Jan 02 - 09:47 PM (#636907) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: CarolC If enough people see it as being in their best interest to not play along, maybe this stuff will see the light of day. I'm guessing that there are a lot of people in this context who will see it as being in their best interest to not play along. I won't be at all surprised if the doo-doo hits the fan in a pretty big way for a lot of people during the next year or two. |
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27 Jan 02 - 10:12 PM (#636919) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: kendall Both sides are talking up campaign finance reform, so, unless it's just lip service, something good could come from it. |
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28 Jan 02 - 12:09 AM (#636971) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR I have not objection to campaign fiance reform myself, so long as the unions are prohibeted from making the same contribuions that corporations are banned from making. Right on, I say! DougR |
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21 Feb 02 - 06:06 PM (#654917) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: JedMarum Seems the last administration was much more helful to Enron then the current one.
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21 Feb 02 - 09:30 PM (#655008) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: kendall Right, and I hear Clinton started the Black plague and bombed Pearl Harbor too! |
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22 Feb 02 - 12:35 AM (#655090) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: leprechaun I know a comedian who bombed in Las Vegas. I got bombed right here in my own home town. |
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22 Feb 02 - 03:22 PM (#655528) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR Gee, Jed, you are not attracting many posts from our liberal friends to this thread anymore. I wonder why? DougR |
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22 Feb 02 - 04:30 PM (#655578) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert Hey, DougR... Sorry, bud, if you miss us. Enron will take care of itself. Like I've said before, Junior won't take any direct hits on this one but when his approval ratings crack, like they did with his daddy's, he will suffer from the guilt by association thing that his boys did to Clinton for 8 years over White Water. $40,000,000 in chasin and nothing that would even bring a misdemeaner charge. Well, enjoy your boy's rating while you can. The American people will grow weary of Junior's little World War when they realize it's being paid for with money that could be be spent on domestic priorities and promoting peace, and when the American people remember the realites of cleaning up after the last Republican president. Yeah, we liberals, progressives and Greenies are just doing the a little Mohammed Ali "rope-a-dope" waiting for the right time to pounce. You all keep on punchin'. We'll be there when it counts. |
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22 Feb 02 - 04:51 PM (#655588) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Lonesome EJ Interesting info here.
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22 Feb 02 - 05:14 PM (#655602) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR I just wanted to be sure you guys were still awake, Bobert! Musn't go to sleep at the wheel, you know. :>) DougR |
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22 Feb 02 - 05:16 PM (#655605) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR I checked it out, LEJ. I didn't see anything there we didn't already know, or did I miss something? Did you check out the link Jed provided? DougR |
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22 Feb 02 - 05:17 PM (#655606) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: CarolC We're just waiting for some information from a *credible* news source, DougR ;-) |
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22 Feb 02 - 05:28 PM (#655616) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Lonesome EJ The Clinton link, Doug? Sure did. I think the site link I listed was especially interesting though, because it shows a definite pattern of shift from the early nineties to current day in favor of Republican candidates. Why, do you think? It may have something to do with incumbency, or it may have to do with a you-scratch-my-back reciprocation of favors granted for money? You tell me. Follow that link to the homepage, and find out exactly what candidate owes what PAC. VERY interesting. In an age when political office is by and large a purchaseable commodity, the people who can afford to buy office will be A) those who are independently enormously wealthy or B) those who are willing to court PACs for the funds necessary to buy office, while promising nothing in return C) Those who court PACs to buy office while promising loyalty and service. My cynicism tells me there just won't be many successful B's. |
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22 Feb 02 - 05:41 PM (#655623) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Lonesome EJ |
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22 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM (#655675) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: CarolC In order to understand how politics (and money) played a role in what happened with Enron, one of the things that needs to be examined is deregulation, and who the key figures were in working to promote deregulation. Some names that come up as being central to this question are Wendy Graham and Phil Graham, as well as the the Bush administration vis. the roll it played with its appointee to the position of head of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (and the extent to which this choice might have been influence by Enron, and the money that Enron contributed to the Bush campaign). |
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22 Feb 02 - 06:54 PM (#655679) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert DougR: No sleepin' at the wheel here. Haven't you heard of the "vast left wing conspiracy" yet. Opp's. Forget I said that, buddy... Sorry folks. I didn't mean to say anything. I thought surely at DougR would know about the plan (wink, wink...) Yeah, DougR, don't worry about a thing. Your guy is doing just what we want him to.... ahhh, strike that.... ahhh.... nevermind, buddy. But keep in mind that history repeats itself.... |
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22 Feb 02 - 07:24 PM (#655699) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: michaelr Michael Moore has a new book out in which he traces the connection between Enron and the Bushies. Seems there's a lot of dirty laundry yet to be aired... Michael |
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22 Feb 02 - 07:45 PM (#655710) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: toadfrog Doug, I've got only one quarrel with what you have said on this particular thread: You are feeding a troll! |
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22 Feb 02 - 09:21 PM (#655761) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: Bobert Michaelr: Yeah, I ordered that book a couple of days ago. It's entitled "Stupid White Men" and it ain't all about Junior. He talks about the guy who is sitting in an American Eagle jet about ready for take off and reading some magazine that says the pilot flying the plane is making less money than the kid taking your order at Taco Bell... Hmmmmm? The Grayhound bus is lookin' better and better to this ol' hillbilly.... |
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22 Feb 02 - 10:52 PM (#655807) Subject: RE: BS: Is Enron Dubya's Waterloo Part II From: DougR Toad: Jed Marum is a troll? Wow! I never thought of him as one of those. Jed, shame on you! DougR |