BS: Am I Missing Something Here?

25 Jan 02 - 02:54 PM (#635453)
Subject: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

This has come up recently in two threads--the ethnic/cultural assumptions of some folks here.

Over in one thread this week, someone suggested there might be cultural differences between British drinking folk and American drinking folk. Just now, in the showmanship thread, Murray points out that we have all forgotten it is Burns' Night tonight.

Is it me, or are there some pretty hefty cultural assumptions being made in Mudcat about who "we" are here?

My ancestry is French and Polish. I'm an American citizen. Yet there seems to be this assumption that we are all good Brits or Celts (well, yes I am Breton--but not a British Breton!) both sides the pond?

Really, am I supposed to take care to notice that it is Burns' Night, or that the British lads like their drinks at the sing-around down at the local?

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25 Jan 02 - 03:06 PM (#635461)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Mad4Mud at work

Burns' Night is celebrated in America. You just have to find the right crowd. Maybe you should widen your circle of friends. :-)

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25 Jan 02 - 03:09 PM (#635462)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Maryrrf

Burns Night is definitely celebrated by my crowd!

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25 Jan 02 - 03:18 PM (#635467)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Mark Clark

GUEST, For the most part, all of us here harbor a deep appreciation for the songs and traditions of people all over the world. We in the US want to know what's happening in Africa, Asia, Australia, Canada, Europe, South & Central America (and anywhere else) because all of these cultures have contributed their traditions to ours. I also find that people throughout the world who are working in their own traditions, often have an interest in US folk and traditional music as well.

M4M is correct, you just need to find the right crowd... or maybe, since you're here, you've already found it.

      - Mark

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25 Jan 02 - 03:18 PM (#635468)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Herga Kitty

Guest

Well, the messages on Mudcat are usually posted in the English language, and there has been a constant exchange of songs back and forth across the Atlantic between England, Scotland, Ireland, Canada and America. There is a shared tradition, although the melting pot has added a lot of interesting stuff. Similar considerations apply to Mudcatters in Oz and NZ. The Irish and Scottish community in America and Australia is larger than in Ireland or Scotland.

I understand that Rabbie Burns is very popular in Russia, and that Burns Night is celebrated by many non-Brit or Celtic people there too. He was a major collector / adapter of songs (not in English!)and it's quite appropriate to note that today is Burns Night. My own ancestry is half Polish/Jewish and half English/ Irish, with as far as I know not a tad of Scottish, but I still went out to lunch with a Welsh friend from work and ate haggis, neeps and tatties (in London, England).

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25 Jan 02 - 03:20 PM (#635469)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: CarolC

Probably exposing myself to some flames here, but I read your opening post, GUEST, with some amusement. I've noticed the same sort of thing from time to time. What amuses me about it is that it is we, in the US, who get accused of being insular. I find no small amount of irony in that.

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25 Jan 02 - 03:28 PM (#635477)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: MMario

I think cultural assumptions are just that - cultural assumptions. That means that it probably takes an effort to discard them.

It shouldn't mean that one takes offense at someone else's assumptions; just acknowledge that sometimes it takes a bit of effort on both sides to reach a common meeting point.

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25 Jan 02 - 03:30 PM (#635478)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: paddymac

Guest - The first thing I'd like to suggest is that you become a member of the family. There's no cost, there is as much annonymity as you wish, and it's a great big global family.

The flavor of mudcat changes as the "flavor" of the members and visitors changes. We have valued family members all around the globe. If I had to guess, I'd say that the majority are from the US and western Europe. My guess is that such a distribution reflects many things, but mostly it's just a matter of language.

All of us are human (though we sometimes question the truth of that), and vulnerable to the usual and common foibles of the species. We all see the world from where ever we happen to sit, and pretty routinely bring those perspectives into discussions here. But the beauty of this commuinity is that we gradually learn to put aside many of our individual biases and prejudices and learn from each other about each other. There are sometimes those who seem content to live within their self-constructed cages, but most are sincerely open to the world.

The fact that most of us never have a chance to personally meet other members, means that we are forced to form our views of others based on the ideas and emotions they express in writting. That means that the visual cues that normally inform so much of human behavior rarely come into play, which, in my humble view, is not a bad thing.

In a more direct answer to your question, I think it is fair to say that there are some "pretty hefty cultural assumptions" made by some of us at different times, but I don't think it's either fair or accurate to view those as necessarily antagonistic to other world views or cultures.

I want to thank you for starting this thread, and hope that others 'Catters from around the world will join in and share their thoughts.

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25 Jan 02 - 03:35 PM (#635482)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Herga Kitty

Oh hurray, a thread has just started on celebrating Australia Day, because it's already 26 January in Australia. There are usually appropriate celebrations for St David's Day, St Patrick's Day, St Andrews/ Hogmanay and Burns Night, but English people get buggerall opportunity to celebrate being English because St George's Day and Shakespeare's birthday (both 23 April) never get any worthwhile support.

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25 Jan 02 - 03:36 PM (#635484)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Irish Sergeant

Guest: Do take the opportunity to join our global family. And to all who celebrate the genius of Rabbie Burns "Here's tae us, There' damn few of us and most of them are dead." Kindest regards, neil

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25 Jan 02 - 03:51 PM (#635492)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug (without a cookie)

I don't know much about traditional Breton, or Polish, or West African celebrations with a musical aspect. But I'd be delighted to learn more. I'm only able to talk or write or sing about what I know. But please don't assume that I am content with "what I know" or that I am quite happy to operate within the bounds of a Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/English-speaking enclave. Two nights ago, I heard a fantastic Basque band playing traditional music from their region, and singing by Marta Sebesztyen (spelling could be a bit crazy there). I didn't know what to expect but I loved what I heard.

As I write Glasgow(my home town) is hosting a festival which celebrates all sorts of music - there are musicians from all over Europe, America (North and South) and further afield.

If you want to share songs or music with us, GUEST, and can't see anything that you'd like to partake of, please feel free to share your passions with us..

I for one, would be happy to hear what you have to say.

Cheers

Steven

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25 Jan 02 - 03:56 PM (#635497)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Willie-O

Hard to say. But I've noticed our island brethren seem to make the most assumptions that a reference to "the song half-circle under the cellar at East Froggywinkle" is both instantly comprehensible, and useful information, for catters at large.

Irritating, but charming.

And hey, there are cultural differences in drinking styles between Canadians and Americans, too. To be specific, a lot of Americans think we Canucks drink all the beer all the time and no one here takes any particular notice or passes judgment if that's your full-time pastime.

Well, my wife does, but then she's still American.

Willie-O
Canadian by birth
Scottish by descent
American by legal relativity

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25 Jan 02 - 04:03 PM (#635500)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Thank you CarolC, for catching my drift. Apparently, there is also no shortage of cultural arrogance afoot here either, if the remark that it is non-Anglo/Celts who need to widen their circle of friends is to be taken seriously. Without a hint of irony? Hmmm...

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25 Jan 02 - 04:05 PM (#635501)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Desdemona

Oh, pass the haggis (actually, could you please pass the whisky first?)!

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25 Jan 02 - 04:05 PM (#635502)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: M.Ted

GUEST, Should Murray, who has left his we hoose mang the heather for our spacious skies and amber waves of grain, forget his auld acquaintance, and fail to encourage us to take a cup of kindness for auld Robbie Burns, just on the off chance that someone, such as yourself, would use it as an excuse to take the low road in thread like this? You should learn to be a bit tolerant--a man's a man for that!

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25 Jan 02 - 04:11 PM (#635508)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: bill\sables

Herga Kitty, I agree we don't celebrate St George's night in England as much as the Scots and Irish do their patron saints but for the last few years on April 23rd a few friends and myself have re-named it St Geordie's night and celibrated it in some local pub with tales of events from our youth in Newcastle area punctuated with Geordie songs. We all tend to eat Ham and Pease Pudding sandwiches and Black Bullets and wear flat caps and mufflers. Perhaps this idea should spread further South.
Cheers Bill

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25 Jan 02 - 04:28 PM (#635531)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Herga Kitty

Bill

Well of course Geordies have the best of all worlds. I generally associate Ham and Pease Pudding with New Year, Allendale, various Keelers or ex-Keelers, but I probably have a lot to learn.

Kitty

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25 Jan 02 - 04:31 PM (#635536)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: DougR

I see nothing alarming or untoward in Murray's reminding everyone of Burns Night. We remind our Mudcat friends of so and so's birthday all the time. Big deal.

You evidently have been around the Mudcat for awhile (though I suppose that it might be possible for one to just look in one time and pick up the insight you seem to have of the folks in this forum).

The third paragraph in your first post I find very interesting. You ask, "who is we?" We would like to know, who are you?

DougR

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25 Jan 02 - 04:46 PM (#635558)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Sticking up a mention of some local event, wherever it is, England, Australia, Pennsylvania, whatever - that doesn't indicate an assumption that everyone on the Mudcat lives round the corner and might come along. It's a hopeful recognistion that there miht be some who do and might.

And what it also is is a way of giving a thumns up to the idea that what folk music is centrally about isn't show business, it's about is people getting together where they are, and making music for the enjoyment of it. It's a way of saying "We are still doing it that way where I am", and expressing solidarity and encouragement for other people who are doing it on the other suide of the world.

And the same goes for reminding people about special days for people in some particular part of the world, or with klinks to some particular part of the world - Thanksgiving, Burns Night, St Patricks and so on, and the more the merrier. (And when it come to Bretons, it really is the more the merrier.)

For the Engkish I've alwasy felt that April 23rd is a bit artificial as a day to choose - May Day is far more of a vibrant tradition, even if it gets shifted to a Bank Holiday Monday somewhere in the vicinity of May 1st.

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25 Jan 02 - 05:33 PM (#635599)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: artbrooks

ANON.GUEST: people here put up information or ask questions under the assumption that someone within the Mudcat family will be interested or have the answer. A message about Burns' Night no more assumes that everyone here is Scots/Celts than other threads assume that everyone is interested in Morris Dancing in Hull, Miles Wooten or men's underwear (other current threads). There is an easy way to avoid topics that don't interest you...simply don't open the thread.

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25 Jan 02 - 05:35 PM (#635600)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: SINSULL

To answer your original question: Yes. You are missing something. Burns Night Supper is an occasion not to be missed. Piping in the haggis, drinking to the piper, drinking to anything actually, pasties and neeps. Wonderful shortbreads. But mostly good company. Good music. Wondrous tales and stories. This is the first year in a long time that I am not going to one and I miss it.

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25 Jan 02 - 05:50 PM (#635612)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Rick Fielding

I've been wondering why none of the Americans here ever seem to take notice of BEAVER DAY. OK, so I'm just a small time parochial Canuck, but BEAVER DAY has been a very important holiday for my family through at least five generations. Just to remind the other Canadians here that because BEAVER DAY falls on a Saturday this year (Jan 26) the traditional 'decorating the beaver' ritual has to be finished by midnite tonight.

As most Scots will certainly know, along with the traditional BEAVER DAY feast (Cream of wheat mixed with Pemican and Salt Cod) left over haggis from Robbie Burns day, is usually thrown into the blender and whipped up with beer and dandelion greens.

So everyone (Yanks and Brits included) Have a wonderful BEAVER DAY

Rick

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25 Jan 02 - 05:58 PM (#635619)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: SINSULL

Gee Rick. I hope you invited Cletus, Paw, and the Reg boys. Sounds like their kind of fun. Dare I ask for more details about "decorating the beaver" or is that getting too personal?

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25 Jan 02 - 06:02 PM (#635621)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: sophocleese

Rick I'm having difficulty getting to my dandelion greens, the snow is a little deep. What is an acceptable substitute? I'm only first generation Canadian and I don't want to offend with something inappropriate.

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25 Jan 02 - 06:09 PM (#635626)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Gareth

Just remember folks - The Canadians may have thier "big Bruvver" to the South. Ours is to the East.

Headline in the South Wales Echo " High winds close Severn Bridge - England isolated"

Garydd ap Godfri ap Benji ap (please continue for many ancestors)

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25 Jan 02 - 06:51 PM (#635656)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Jeri

The original question: "Really, am I supposed to take care to notice that it is Burns' Night, or that the British lads like their drinks at the sing-around down at the local?"

This question is a lot more complicated than it seems upon first reading. It asks what the correct behavior is: "Am I supposed..." First one has to determine who's in charge of making these decisions. This might be Max, but Max doesn't give a shit.

I mean, seriously, Joe Offer or Pene Azul can enforce behavior standards to some extent. I don't know about you, but I can't see them writing a message saying "This message was posted on behalf of Jeri because not noticing is not allowed."

The next available authority on my behavior here is me. Personally, I wouldn't start a thread to ask myself that question, I'd do it quietly, in private. I suppose the question needs to be in a thread in order to figure out that I was the one with the authority to make such a decision, though. Anyway, I just asked myself the question. The answer I gave was "I don't have to if I don't want to, nyah, nyah."

I also came to the conclusion there were even some things I should take care NOT to notice. One of these things is BEAVER DAY, which I have not noticed and don't plan to ever notice. I don't care how Rick decorates his beaver. I didn't even know he had one. Not that I noticed he mentioned it in the first place. Well, OK - I noticed. I just didn't "take care to notice."

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25 Jan 02 - 07:08 PM (#635671)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Here's a page about Beaver Day - looks like fun. I didn't know the Beaver was supposed to be the National Animal of Canada though, I'd always assumed it was the Moose.

Since it seems pretty hopeful that the Beaver will be re-introduced into Scotland, maybe Beaver Day and Burns Night could be combined?

Maybe someone could write a Burns style tribute to the creature...

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25 Jan 02 - 07:28 PM (#635679)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Don Firth

Hell!! It just occurred to me! I missed Guy Fawkes' Day last year!!

Don Firth

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25 Jan 02 - 07:30 PM (#635684)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: AliUK

BEAVER DAY! You decorate beavers? Why and do the women mind?
Seriously though. I am english with a definite celt lineage, my I love brithish folk, country, blues and jazz. I live in Brazil, which has an amazing collection of music that I hear all the time as it is a living part of the culture here and not relegated to small clubs and concerts. In fact Carnaval starts here next week and I shall spend four days pissed out of my head and dancing in the streets. Beats the shit out of Burns Night.

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25 Jan 02 - 07:58 PM (#635701)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: bill\sables

The local pub I attend was asking for ideas for theme nights, They already had a French night and a poachers night and are soon to have a Geordie night. I mentioned an American night on 4th July, Irish night on St. Patricks day and a Scottish night on St. Andrews day or Burns night. Do the Ausies and Canadians have another celibration day around July or August or can anyone give me any other ideas for theme nights from other lands
Cheers Bill

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25 Jan 02 - 08:29 PM (#635709)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Doesn't Yorkshire have a national day?

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25 Jan 02 - 08:40 PM (#635713)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: CarolC

It's not my intention to get involved in a debate on this subject, partly because I just don't have it in me right now, and partly because some of my favorite Mudcatters are among our friends across the pond.

However, I think the opening post to this thread is a good example of the sort of thing the GUEST who started this thread is talking about.

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25 Jan 02 - 09:00 PM (#635724)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Jerry Rasmussen

No, I believe that the Moose is the national animal of Sweden. At least that's what the guy said when he sold me a tie with mooses all over it.
Jerry

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25 Jan 02 - 09:00 PM (#635725)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Rolfyboy6

I'm descended from Norweigans and French Canadians and Frisians and.... And hey, I like Burns. And Burns Day is good with me. And all the other Days too. Burns is important to all English speakers because he defended his native dialect against homogenization before that was popular, and because he's a hell of a good poet.

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25 Jan 02 - 09:53 PM (#635755)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: PeteBoom

Right.

So the next time any of my bands are involved in celebrations honoring Casmier Pulaski or Tadeusz Kosciuszko, I'll let you know. Beaver Day looks like an absolute blast.

I think I'll try and get it recognized here South (well, portions of Michigan are actually NORTH or portions of Canada thanks to a couple of twists in a certain river) of the Border...

Regards -

Pete

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25 Jan 02 - 10:34 PM (#635778)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: SDShad

Well I, for one, was right glad to be reminded (or just plain minded, since I'd been entirely unawares) that tonight is Burns night. Gave me time to pick up some Scotch (blended--too broke for the good stuff just now)on the way home from work, and sit on the deck watching the sunset, raising one in Rabbie's memory. Sure, I'm interested because of a fair bit of Scots heritage on my own part. But I'd love to hear of the celebrations of ethnic groups not my own, too. Can't imagine wanting such announcements not to appear.

Chris

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26 Jan 02 - 08:42 AM (#635984)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

CarolC--yes, thanks for the effort and acknowledgment of people clearly in the minority here.

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26 Jan 02 - 09:00 AM (#635993)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: paddymac

Thanks to the Mudcat, we were able to toast Burns' Day and Australia Day at our session last night. Unfortunately (or not) we couldn't find any haggis or 'roo burgers, so we settled for a two-fisted salute: a glass of scotch in one hand and a glass of Foster's in the other. It's actually a rather pleasant combination. If I had learned of Rick's favorite holiday earlier, it would assurredly have been included, with a pint of "Canadian Muscle" (Molson's).

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26 Jan 02 - 10:19 AM (#636015)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: sledge

I think it is best if people put forward that which they are familiar with when mentioning celebrations or festivals of whatever ilk. After all, it is the culture in which they were raised, so they should know something about it. So its not too much to assume that they might want to share what they consider good news, whats wrong with that.

If someone has heard of an interesting (to them) event then they may ask on the forum for a little more info, nothing wrong with that also, they may find out a great deal or just enough to keep them going in the right direction to find out more.

If any body thinks this group is too narrow minded and ignores other cultural issues maybe they should get off their "guesting" arse and post some items of (if only to them) interest. That may then prompt discussion and exploration of that topic leading to wider world views all round, but the guest poster probably wont, so much more fun to flame and sow dissent. It bugs the shit out of me when people critisize things but offer nothing in the way off a remedy.

Stuart

is guest missing something? probably a bit of decency.

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26 Jan 02 - 11:03 AM (#636036)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Dave Bryant

With reference to celebrating St George's day, we (Barleycorn - Ted, Linda, & Myself) had a gig for a pub celebration last year. Also in the past I was involved in running ST GEORGES FOLK FESTIVAL at Cecil Sharp House, London (HQ of The English Folk Dance & Song Soc.) on the nearest weekend to April 23rd.

I think, however, that the reason that Burn's Night and Paddy's night get celebrated more in England is that it's a chance for publicans to fill their pubs with ex-pats (and many distant descendants of the same).

As to the the question about "Is there a Yorkshire national Day ?" - if you mean do they have a day when they go out and get pissed - yes it starts on Jan 1st and ends on Dec 31st !

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26 Jan 02 - 05:41 PM (#636268)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: CarolC

I think there's an important distinction that's being missed here. It looks to me like the complaint is not about whether or not people put forward that with which they are familiar.

It looks to me like the complaint is more about the expectation that everyone else should be familiar with those same things, and anyone who isn't is deficient in some way.

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26 Jan 02 - 06:45 PM (#636306)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: DougR

Rick: "Beaver Day." I love it!

DougR

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26 Jan 02 - 06:56 PM (#636314)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Paul from Hull

Can't see that anyone else has answered Kevins question so I will.....I'm a bit surprised that other Brits arent aware of it. Maybe we just arent advertising it enough! *G*

Yorkshire Day, aka 'White Rose Day' is August the 1st, Mr McGrath

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26 Jan 02 - 07:01 PM (#636318)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

artbrooks-But surely everbody here is intersted in were Morris is dancing! :-)

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26 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM (#636323)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

I always chuckle at assumptions. I am thrilled when people of cultures, beliefs, political stripes find me common enough to assume that I am one of them. I enjoy being invited into celebrations that I normally am not a part of because I am not one of THEM.

I realize as I type this that my cookie needs to be reset and my anonymity is seemingly secure. So being invited to a Burns nite dinner and recitation based solely on my manners and apparent interest in cultures other than mine I find flattering in the extreme.

I won't get hot if someone assumes I am a Celtish sort anymore than I will be insulted if someone miss guesses my gender.

I come into this forum of people I don't know not expecting to be intentionally insulted and hope my pardon is accepted in I should unintentionally insult someone else.

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26 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM (#636324)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Blackcatter

It seems to me that the Mudcat should have an official calendar - maybe entitled "Events to get pissed/drunk to" We could come up with cultural holidays so that we're never very far away from a "official" chance to raise a glass/bottle/can and play/listen to/butcher some music.

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26 Jan 02 - 07:48 PM (#636353)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Spoy the Dog

I celebrate them all. I have had 15 celebrations this year and it's only January (assuming that you work with the currently accepted international calendar).

I tend to celebrate only the ones I can pronounce but I am willing to have a go at any Saint (or other religious deity) day of rememberance.

I am truly multicultural when it comes to celebration. My problem at the moment is that my knowledge of religious / non religious / secular etc etc. days is a limiting factor so given that February (assuming that....etc.) is nearly upon us does anyone have anything I can celebrate during this month. (not St Valentine PLEASE.....)

Would GUEST please sign in with an annonymous nom-de-plume so I can stop trying to guess who he/she is?

Spot the dog

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26 Jan 02 - 07:51 PM (#636357)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Spot (not Spoy) the Dog

Help .............my cookie says its reset but I still appear as Guest (spot the Dog)..any answers?

Spot.

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26 Jan 02 - 08:01 PM (#636362)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Spot the Dog

............and I can't get at my personal pages.....Oh crumbs........

Dear Mr Clone, Could you please sort out my cookie and help me to become Spot the Dog again. I hate identity crisis.

Many thanks

Spot the Dog

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26 Jan 02 - 08:43 PM (#636386)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Jeri

Spot, check the FAQ out - you may need to clean the old cache out. If you're still stuck, try asking in the Help Forum.

If I got offended whenever somebody assumed something about me, I'd have to be offended most of the time. Life would not be fun.

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27 Jan 02 - 08:16 AM (#636549)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Sure, it's no problem being a member of the majority imperial mindset here. Anyone not with us is against us, after all.

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27 Jan 02 - 08:43 AM (#636552)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Willa

McGrath. In answer to your question: As part of its efforts to preserve the region's Yorkshire heritage, the Yorkshire Ridings Society established 'Yorkshire Day' on August 1st 1975. The idea of a special day called 'Yorkshire Day' was to provide a focus for highlighting Yorkshire pride in the County. August 1st was chosen as it has special significance in the county's history. On August 1st 1759 soldiers, including some from Yorkshire regiments, who had fought in the battle of Minden, in Germany, picked white roses from nearby fields as a tribute to their fallen comrades.

Since then a number of Yorkshire regiments wear white roses on August 1st to commemorate the events of that day and heroic deeds of their Yorkshire ancestors.

The Yorkshire Ridings Society and others throughout the County continue to celebrate Yorkshire's identity and heritage. Bill: here's another 'Theme night' for you.

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27 Jan 02 - 09:40 AM (#636569)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: bill\sables

Thanks Willa, I should have thought of Yorkshire Day, My first grandaughter was born on 1st August 2000 just after midnight in York hospital and hit the headlines in all the papers as the First Yorkshire Day baby in the new century.
Cheers Bill

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27 Jan 02 - 11:02 AM (#636601)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: katlaughing

These may be of interest:

How ethnically diverse are we?

How ethnically diverse are we - Part Two

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27 Jan 02 - 07:06 PM (#636801)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Well, it looks as if this thread has had one useful result - a likely gig for bill sables on August 1st. I wish all threads were as productive.

I think the bottom line is it's unwise to assume that everybody knows where we are geographically, still less that talk as if we were all living in the same part of the wolrd. So, for exmple there are times when some programme we've seen on Television is worth commenting on, but it's not really sensible to do that in a way that assumes that we all have the same television schedules.

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27 Jan 02 - 07:18 PM (#636809)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: CarolC

I agree with you McGrath.

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27 Jan 02 - 07:38 PM (#636823)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Marc B

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27 Jan 02 - 07:44 PM (#636829)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Marc B

sorry about that. Spot the Dog, Not to assume your geographic location Or religious persuasion. But I've always found Mardi Gras a great excuse to drink & eat & be silly even though I live in the Northeast US. And it usually ( although not always) falls in Feb. Marc B

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28 Jan 02 - 07:27 AM (#637082)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Yes McGrath, it is that sort of thing I'm talking about, as well as the presumption that the Anglo/Anglo American and Celtic/Celtic American folk traditions are everyone's traditions, and so anyone who doesn't share a great love of them be damned. I could care less what ethnic background someone is, and think attempting to label/categorize people by their ancestry or nationality is nearly always negative. I also know that there are probably no more nationalistic folk who engage in this sort of thing more than the British and British North Americans.

But then, maybe that is why those are the only people who seem to inhabit this place, eh?

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28 Jan 02 - 08:19 AM (#637096)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug - no cookie again

Guest, (if you who posted most recently is the same as originally kicked this off).

That is one massive chip on your shoulder, isn't it?

You have decided that because we don't celebrate your festivals - which you haven't bothered to define for us by the way - or haven't been able to guess what might be of interest to you, we are arrogant and nationalistic (and by the way, there are few poets of any era, or any origin who are as international and egalitarian as Burns was).

You seem to want to be included but don't seem to want to be open to other people's interests.

Share with us, but don't expect us to know what you want when you haven't told us..

Cheers

Steven

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28 Jan 02 - 08:41 AM (#637101)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Steven,

I am not looking to be included, nor am I attempting to dictate how people behave.

What I am suggesting is that inter-cultural communication (if it is important to the group), to be done reasonably well, requires people to be self-aware regarding their cultural assumptions and prejudices. Additionally, for there to be effective inter-cultural communication between dominant and marginalized groups, those who make up the dominant group must learn to behave in ways which are different from the way they interact within their own cultural community.

That is my point.

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28 Jan 02 - 02:55 PM (#637258)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: PeteBoom

Right. Point made. Next topic.

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28 Jan 02 - 05:30 PM (#637371)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: M.Ted

So, guest, you are the multicultural awareness trainer?

Murray lives in Florida, so I doubt that there is much you could teach him about interculturalism--but I could use some advice--

After last year, we stopped having the extended family over for Christmas because the Jews couldn't eat ham, the vegetarians wouldn't eat lamb, and the Muslims wouldn't eat at all because it was Ramadan--My question is, do you have any recipes that use leftover crabcakes?

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29 Jan 02 - 08:58 AM (#637798)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: A Wandering Minstrel

Bill/Sables

It is very unkind to remind us exiled Geordies languishing here in the soft south about the gastronomic glories of our homeland. This is precisely one of those inexcusable cultural assumptions Guest is moaning on about!

Do you realise how hard it is to get Pease Pudding and Black Bullets this far South!

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29 Jan 02 - 09:15 AM (#637818)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

CarolC, As you are a Beckett enthusiast -

...and to add a musical aside (and put in a plug at the same time for an artist whose music would not totally be out of place here or in a Beckett environment) - you might perhaps find this link to this short story by country artist (and the term 'country' is applied here loosely) Jim White rather interesting....

Jim White has two CD's out, "Wrong Eyed Jesus," and his latest, "No Such Place." He's a great lyricist, singer, songwriter, who has had a very interesting life personally and career-wise.

http://www.luakabop.com/jim_white/cmp/blessing.html

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29 Jan 02 - 05:01 PM (#638176)
Subject: Multiculturalism
From: Murray MacLeod

I only clicked on this thread a few minutes ago and am amazed that my innocuous reminder regarding Burns Day should have stimulated such a lively discussion. GUEST is right insofar as it was irrelevant in the context of the thread in which I had posted. Maybe I should have opened a separate thread (as Giok did later).

But surely it was not being insular to draw attention to Robert Burns, that most universal of poets? And lest GUEST should think that the culture of Scotland is limited to a small corner of North Britain, he should be aware that there are well-attended Scottish Games held the length and breadth throughout the United States.

I have sung the songs of Robert Burns at several of these events, from New Hampshire to Florida.

As M.Ted notes I live in Florida and have heard few more stirring sounds than the massed pipe bands of Miami playing "Guantanamera" ....

Murray

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29 Jan 02 - 06:03 PM (#638205)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Murray, I'm well aware of the location of Scotland. I am also well aware that the number of Americans who participate in any sort of Scottish related activities, Burns or otherwise, are not statistically countable.

And Burns isn't a "universal" poet, he is a nationalist one.

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29 Jan 02 - 06:25 PM (#638225)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: CarolC

Wow, GUEST, thanks! Country Zappa perhaps? Gotta love those unseen forces.

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29 Jan 02 - 06:33 PM (#638228)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Murray MacLeod

Not quite sure what *not statistically countable" is supposed to mean, GUEST. Perhaps you are trying to imply that the number is so small as not to be statistically significant.

Any Highland Games Committee will know exactly how many people will have gone through the turnstiles for any given event. If anybody were sufficiently motivated to discover the exact number of Americans who attend "Scottish related activities", it would be a relatively simple matter to aggregate the totals for each event, and arrive at a "at least" grand total.

Not as many as attend baseball or football matches, for sure, but a not insignificant number nonetheless, I would wager.

Murray

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29 Jan 02 - 06:42 PM (#638239)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Sheesh!!! Anyone checked the moon recently? It's full over here. But, maybe I shouldn't be discussing that with my English and Welsh friends. I wasn't going to come back to this thread because the original post seemed so off-the wall. What the Hell is going on? I think maybe I'll start a thread that says "I can't Stand Anyone, and I'm not too Fond of myself either." Or perhaps to irritate the SERIOUS folks, I could start a really meaningful thread on "Do Frogs Get Humans caught in their throats when they sing?" Onward...
Jerry

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29 Jan 02 - 07:15 PM (#638265)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: CarolC

...and on French TV, no less. He strikes me as someone who would understand accordions.

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29 Jan 02 - 07:22 PM (#638271)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: artbrooks

Jerry, I think ANON.GUEST is thread-hopping to make sure he manages to annoy everyone. Maybe its time to put this one to bed.

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29 Jan 02 - 07:29 PM (#638278)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Just doing my bit to make the BSers feel loved, Art. They've said repeatedly they don't want me carrying on seriously about music, so here we are.

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29 Jan 02 - 08:10 PM (#638317)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: McGrath of Harlow

"attempting to label/categorize people by their ancestry or nationality is nearly always negative. I also know that there are probably no more nationalistic folk who engage in this sort of thing more than the British and British North Americans."

Somehow it seems that there is a slight logical flaw in the juxtaposition of those two sentences.

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29 Jan 02 - 08:19 PM (#638323)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Took you quite a while to even come up with that, didn't it McGrath?

My, my--you mui macho men do like to try and keep antagonizing me, doncha?

Shall we try a spitting contest next?

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30 Jan 02 - 07:58 AM (#638578)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

Figured you'd like that, CarolC. The pleasure was mine.

Jim White is definitely worth checking out. And for the ladies, he's not hard to look at either. He was once a runway model in Milan.

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30 Jan 02 - 04:37 PM (#638881)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: GUEST

P.S. Jim White's encounter with the "bum" in Tompkins Square Park is an exercise in absurdism that Beckett obviously appreciated.

Interesting how Beckett chose to write in French. Apparently writng in a language other than his native tongue forced an economy with words on him that he otherwise would not have enjoyed. He said something to that effect in an interview once.

And finally, you gotta love a songwirter who can make words like these work extremely well in a song:

Sometimes you throw yourself into the sea of faith Only to have the sharks of doubt devour you. Sometimes you throw yourself into the sea of faith, To find the treasure lost in the shipwreck inside of you. -Jim White, "10 Miles To Go On A Nine Mile Road," No Such Place

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23 Jan 03 - 02:28 PM (#873083)
Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
From: Nigel Parsons

Refresh

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