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31 Jan 02 - 09:07 PM (#639692) Subject: An easy Treble Jig From: DonMeixner |Need the name of a treble jig that will be easy to follow for some novice step dancers. It would be nice if it were easy to learn as well. Don |
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31 Jan 02 - 09:30 PM (#639704) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: Sorcha You might try St. Patrick's Day in the Morning or Swallowtail Jig. |
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31 Jan 02 - 11:39 PM (#639786) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: DonMeixner Thanks Sorcha, BTW, What makes it a treble jig? A slip Jig? A slide? Don |
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31 Jan 02 - 11:58 PM (#639796) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: alison I'm assuming its a slip jig... 9/8 if so "Butterfly", "Rocky Road to Dublin" slainte alison |
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01 Feb 02 - 12:20 AM (#639810) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: DonMeixner Thanks Alison, but down in OZ wouldn't that be in 8/9 time? And played backwards too? |
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01 Feb 02 - 12:26 AM (#639813) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: alison makes it more interesting Don........ but the dancers do tend to fall over... *grin* slainte alison |
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01 Feb 02 - 02:09 AM (#639853) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: Manitas_at_home Is this the dancers's treble jig ie. A slightly slower jig for demonstrating complicated steps? I think "The Orange Rogue" would qualify but you'd be better off asking on a newsgroup or maybe the IRTRAD mailing list at IRTRAD-L@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE |
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01 Feb 02 - 06:18 AM (#639915) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: Geoff the Duck Drops of Brandy is a good slip jig, also The Foxhunters Jig. A standard jig is in 6/8 time giving two groups of three notes to the rhythm, this also can be counted as two groups of triplets with a count of two beats to the bar. A triple jig or slip jig has THREE groups of three notes and can also be counted as three beats to a bar with three groups of triplets. translating it into Mouth Music a standard jig would be Diddly diddly / Diddly diddly / Diddly diddly / Diddly diddly / whereas a slip jig takes the pattern Diddly diddly diddly / Diddly diddly diddly / Diddly diddly diddly / Diddly diddly diddly / I hope that makes sense. Quack GtD
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01 Feb 02 - 06:22 AM (#639917) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Donal Lunny (escaped from Drumcree thread) Does that mean we now call slides "quadruple jigs"? |
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01 Feb 02 - 07:11 AM (#639938) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST Agree Foxhunters Jig, also Another Jig Will Do, and Hunt the Hare. |
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01 Feb 02 - 07:49 AM (#639945) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,DonMeixner Thank you to every one. I knew I'd get good advice. Geoff, that made perfect sense. Don |
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01 Feb 02 - 07:58 AM (#639949) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,The Ghost Of Willie Clancy Also "An Phis Fliuch" ... get some gaeilgeoir to translate that for you ... |
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01 Feb 02 - 02:40 PM (#640154) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: weepiper Am Phis Fhliuch...and don't ask yer granny what it means... |
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02 Feb 02 - 05:09 AM (#640493) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: Manitas_at_home Don, Beware a treble jig is not the same as a triple jig. Check with the dancers or their teacher. |
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02 Feb 02 - 09:57 AM (#640573) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST Best of my understanding, trebble jibs are 6/8 played slowly and NOT slip jigs which are a whole different kettle of fish. Trebble jids are used to accompany the Heavy Jig (as opposed to the Light or Single Jig). the Heavy Jig is a lot slower (about 50 BPM) than the other Jigs and is danced in Heavy Shoes. Usually, the Heavy Jig is the first Hard Shoe Dance a beginner learns (next to traditional sets). One of the more popular trebble jigs down in New Orleans is what we call "Feet of Flames" or the composer Ron Hardiman calls "breakout" from Michael Flately's Lord of the Dance a clip with the B part befor the A part can be found at http://ubl.artistdirect.com/cgi-bin/ramstream?file=~ppp-475124/0027112_0106_00_0002.ra or do a Google for Lord of the Dance Breakout If anyone has transcribed this in midi or abc I'd love to get it.
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02 Feb 02 - 01:34 PM (#640729) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Sharon G I play relatively frequently for step dancers- so I have tune suggestions and some corrections about information posted above. The last post is correct- treble jigs are the same thing as a "double jig"- (e.g. Kesh Jig, Swallowtail etc) but danced at a slower tempo. Jigs danced in light shoes are referred to by step dancers as "light jigs" and played at about 116 beats per minute. Treble jigs are danced at two tempos: 86-92 bpm for "traditional speed" (beginner, and some novice dancers) and 73 bpm for more advanced dancers (novice and higher in competition). If you are playing for less advanced dancers at the 86-92 bpm speed, some easy jigs are Tobin's Favorite, Connaughtman's Rambles or Irishman's Heart to the Ladies. If you are at the slower tempo, Irishman's Heart still works pretty well... I heartily recommend that you practice with a metronome and use it when you are playing with the dancers. Melody is less important than keeping a steady rhythm, especially with younger, relatively inexperienced dancers who may be unable to adjust if you vary the tempo(unintentionally of course) ;-) Also, try to get a confirmation on the tempo from the dance teacher. Steps choreographed for a slow treble jig won't work at the faster speed and vice versa Irish step dance lingo is confusing to musicians- I wrote an entire article on this for a now defunct magazine for Irish dancers- The article entitled "What's a Light Jig?". To recap: dancer says: light jig musician plays: jig or double jig at 116 bpm dancer says: double jig or treble jig musician says: that's slow! and plays at 92 or 73 as directed dancer says: single jig Donal Lunny adlibs: quadruple jig (I love it!) musician plays: single jig or slide at about 116 (that would be like Off She Goes, Smash the Windows or O'Keefe's slide) If you're not sure how to differentiate them: *double jigs go "pineapple, pineapple" while single jigs go "humpty-dumpty" in rhythm dancer says: slip jig musician plays: slip jig (9/8 time) Like Drops of Brandy, Foxhunters, the Butterfly, Dever the Dancer etc. dancer says: reel (and dances in light shoes) musician plays: reel at 113-120 bpm depending on level of dancer and if it is solo or a figure dance- advanced dancers go slower than beginners or figure dances dancer says: treble reel and dances in hard shoes musician plays: reel (not as slow as 113) Any more questions? Sharon (fiddle, dance-mom) |
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02 Feb 02 - 04:40 PM (#640842) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Sharon G One more thing Someone recommended St. Patrick's Day and the Orange Rogue for treble jigs. Caution! Don't use either of those tunes for a treble jig. Both are categorized as set dances- They have an irregular number of bars compared to a typical jig, usually in the "b" part of the tune (referred to by dancers as "the set") St. Patrick's Day has specific steps which are executed the same way by all step dancers, and the Orange Rogue, Drunken Gauger and other jig time set dances have steps that are individually choreographed by Irish dance teachers to fit the melody and extra bars in the tunes. Again, hope that's helpful Sharon |
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03 Feb 02 - 03:13 AM (#641154) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: Manitas_at_home That's a really useful summary, Sharon! 'Twas me that mentioned the Orange Rogue and I hadn't stopped to count the bars but I've usually heard it played at about the speed you suggest for treble jigs. The only experience I've had playing for Irish step dancers is when dancers turn up at a session and request a dance. I've had a bit more experience playing for English step dancers and can confirm that you usually have to play slower than you would imagine. Do you have any links you could share? |
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03 Feb 02 - 12:46 PM (#641346) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: DonMeixner I want to thank all of you for this fine bit of research and information. Last night I listen to the canned music the Butler Dance School used at a show we played. I sat there singing "Pineapple, pineapple", "Diddley Diddley" while people sat staring at me for every jig they used. I copied this thread to our fiddler and he extends his thanks aswell. This is the kind of stuff the Mudcat excells at. The bad part is this. The dancers don't seem to know what music they heard. I'd ask what the second jig was and the girls would say, "Its The tripple jig", "No" I's say, Whats the name of the jig?" and they'd all say '"The tripple jig." So I'd ask the instructor and he'd say, It's on the CD and open up the box and pull out a burned CD and say "Yup, Thats the Tripple Jig." Then I looked at the CD and the label said: The Faerie Reel #1 Hornpipe #2 Hornpipe 2 Hand reel 4 Hand reel and so on. How can I win here??? Don |
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05 Feb 02 - 03:26 PM (#643262) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Sharon Don, I don't know what to tell you. Some dancers and instructors are as enlightened as you mentioned- they know "THE reel" or "The light jig", while others actually know tunes. Some of the dance practice cd's don't even list tunes- they have what you mentioned "hornpipe" etc. Some dance cds that DO tell you names include: Sets and Solos (Vol 1 & 2) Step in Time One More Time (Culkin School of Irish Dance) played by Brendan Mulvilhill, Billy McCommisky and Zan McLeod |
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05 Feb 02 - 03:37 PM (#643277) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Sharon Oops, I hit the post it button too soon. The cds I mentioned were just typical dance cds but they do list the tune names: Sets and Solos Vol 1 & @ Kathleen Lavin - Step in Time Billy McCommisky, Brendan Mulvilhill, Zan McLeod and Culkin School of Dance - One More Time The last is unusual in that they have tunes at slower speeds than dancers normally use, as well as typical speeds, so that they can practice the steps more slowly. Interesting concept... Manitas- The best link I can suggest for anything about Irish dancing is this: http://www.geocities.com/aer_mcr/irdance/index.html There are links to basic background info, dance school and teachers, vendors (including sources for these cds, which otherwise would be hard to find. Sharon |
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05 Feb 02 - 03:48 PM (#643288) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: musicmick I dont know what instrument you play but if you play guitar, mandolin or 5 string banjo, you will find ROCKY ROAD TO DUDLIN (as it appears in Allen's Irish Fiddler) the easiest to finger. The three note phrases (they sound like triplets to the ear but, for reasons of convenience, they're written as 1/8 notes) can be gracefully slured with a simple hammer and pull-off motion. |
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05 Feb 02 - 04:13 PM (#643304) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Sharon Yes, Rocky Road to Dublin is easy... but it's a SLIP jig- not what you need for a dancer's treble jig. |
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05 Feb 02 - 06:56 PM (#643402) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: DonMeixner Luckily I will be playing rhytymn guitar. We have a very fine fiddler who will handle the rest of the melody needs. But don't you think being told ".... Oh Thats The Hornpipe..." is a little like being told ".... Oh That soup? It's Du Jour..." I recently learned that The Hornpipe is "Off to California" Don |
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05 Feb 02 - 07:38 PM (#643431) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST Yeah- you'd think people who have such an intimate relationship with the notes & rhythm would have a little more appreciation for the tunes themselves. The liner notes to one of James Kelly's cds mentions a fiddler that played Miss McLeod's reel all day for a feis. At least nowadays the feis musicians change tunes, even if the dancers don't know it ;-) Sharon |
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06 Feb 02 - 01:57 AM (#643602) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: Manitas_at_home If you're going to be absolutely impartial to the dancers you should play the same tunes for each one. On Dartmoor the musicians used to sit with their backs to the dancers in stepping competitions although I dare say they could tell the dancer by the sound. |
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06 Feb 02 - 04:06 AM (#643620) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Confusion reigns Of course, "Off to California" is also played commonly as a reel ... Now you'll need introducing, off course, to our friend the Triple Hornpipe ... thon's a boy who'll really fry your head! |
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06 Feb 02 - 07:46 AM (#643687) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: DonMeixner In American Old Time Music very ofte a Hornpipe is played as a reel. But again that has tp do with regionality and ancestory as much as anything. Don |
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22 Feb 02 - 11:04 AM (#655330) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,Roger O'K Sharon G, you're a star. The schism between dancers and musicians seems to be worse than any of the religion things, and I'm glad that there's someone out there trying to bridge it. It kills me, but I can't do much about it myself because I'm a mediocre piper with far-too-erratic rhythm to even dare to play for dancers. I once tried to bridge the gap by giveing a solo dancer here a tape of decent quality music (Liam O'Flynn et al.) to replace the crap tapes that she used to use for the odd performance here in Belgium. I even used a metronome to make sure I was giving her pieces at the right tempos. She thanked me sincerely, but at her subsequent performances she was still using the rubbish she was familiar with!
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22 Feb 02 - 03:53 PM (#655548) Subject: RE: Tune Req: An easy Treble Jig From: GUEST,SharonG Thank you for the kind words- I love working with the dancers, though the tempos for slow dances are really tough. It is funny ..... the dancers I work with always use certain step dance cd's to practice to and perform to if they aren't in a show with live musicians (rarely). Some of the step dance music is okay- rhythmic but kind of lifeless musically, some atrocious, and only a few of the practice recordings I've heard are really worth listening to musically. I would recommend the Brendan Mulvilhill, Billy McCommisky, Zan McLeod recording - One More Time for great musicianship. Sharon |
