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13 Feb 02 - 07:12 PM (#649494) Subject: Service Tree Song From: Haruo I just posted a song, Maldika Sorpo, in La Lilandejo, for which I am interested in knowing the English words, if any, and the original words, language, provenance... It is about a "bitter service" tree that falls in love with an oak. (I'm assuming "bitter service" here refers to the species, i.e. a service tree with bitter fruit, not the sweet kind, though the tree may also be bitter at finding herself rooted to the ground when she wants to be with the oak tree... The title means "Slender Service". The stanzas mean:
Why, bitter service, do you tremble by the road? |
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13 Feb 02 - 08:27 PM (#649574) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: Liz the Squeak The Service tree is the Service tree of Fontainbleu, that's the one that bears sweet fruit. There is another sort of Service tree that bears fruit, called the Bastard Service tree.... it has fruit that has no viable seed. I've got one in my garden, and in 4 years of trying, not a single seedling.... The birds love the white berries though. Today's useless information. Lovely song though, is there a tune for it? I love the line 'whisper discreetly with his leaves'.... LTS |
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13 Feb 02 - 09:39 PM (#649625) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai I remember the tune. The Japanese title is "Chiisai Gumi no Ki" (Little Gumi Tree). A song about unrequited love between a gumi (I don't know the English for this) and an oak tree standing on the other bank of the river. A songbook I have says it's a Ukrainian song, with no original title. ~Masato
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13 Feb 02 - 10:18 PM (#649644) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai "Chiisai Gumi no Ki" with Japanese words and MIDI is HERE, where this is said to be "Russian." ~Masato |
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14 Feb 02 - 04:15 AM (#649768) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai I've found the original version. The title is "Tonkaya Ryabina", which probably means "slender service tree or rowan tree"; it's said that "gumi" is a similar but different kind. A RealAudio recording is HERE. Something seems written in Esperanto (?) HERE. As for the composer (or arranger?),
Shalov, Alexander
The transliterated words (by I. Surikov) and English translation are HERE (Scroll down). The Russian words are HERE and HERE, too (both with chords). ~Masato |
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14 Feb 02 - 06:46 AM (#649809) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai A singable translation ("The Slender Mountain Ash") is in A Russian Song Book, which I haven't seen. ~Masato
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14 Feb 02 - 09:19 AM (#649881) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: Dave Bryant BTW The Service Tree is also known as the Chequer Tree. At one time a type of beer was made out of it's berries when it was in fruit. This is thought to be one of the reasons that "The Chequers" is such a common pub name in southern England. |
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15 Feb 02 - 06:51 AM (#650703) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai Yulya's singing (sound clip) of "The Slender Mountain Ash" in Russian is HERE. ~Masato |
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16 Feb 02 - 07:57 PM (#651804) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: Haruo Thanks, all and esp. Masato. The document Masato thought might be (partly) in Esperanto is indeed, so now I know the Esperanto text was translated by the appropriately named Ivan Lubianovskij. I would be interested in seeing the English, Japanese, and Ukrainian (if any) versions. It looks like "mountain ash", "rowan", and "service" are all members of the same genus (Sorbus, so it's quite possible (if the Russian word names the whole genus, as the Esperanto sorpo does) that all three are accurate translations. I'm inclined to think the tune is anonymous, and Shalov is only the arranger. But I don't know that for sure; more info would be welcome. Incidentally, Masato, another Japanese text I'm interested in is a little love song entitled Wasurenagusa. Do you have that lying about? Liland/haruo |
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16 Feb 02 - 09:30 PM (#651852) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai Is it "Wasurenagusa o anata ni"? CLICK HERE for the Japanese lyrics, and click again on the eighth note for MIDI. If it's the one, I'll post it in romanized text. ~Masato |
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17 Feb 02 - 12:25 AM (#651918) Subject: Lyr Add: CHIISAI GUMI NO KI From: masato sakurai CHIISAI GUMI NO KI (The Japanese words for "Tonkaya Ryabina")
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. ~Masato
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19 Feb 02 - 12:11 AM (#653162) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: Haruo Thanks, or to rhyme, arigato Masato. I've gone ahead and posted the Esperanto version of Wasurenagusa o anata ni, and would welcome the Japanese lyrics romanized. I haven't figured out what "gumi" is in English, but my little old Sanseido Eiwa has "service tree", "mountain ash" and "rowan" all translated by the same term (except "rowan" has "miyama-" prefixed, and is followed by a kanji meaning "fruit"); whatever it is (slips my mind) it's not gumi. Speaking of which did I do the kanji right on "Wasurenagusa"? I've posted Tonkaya Ryabina in Russian, too, using the text from the Esperanto lessons you linked to above. Also, another unidentified little song "Red Dragonfly" — in this case I think "red" has no political significance — the tune sure is familiar, but I'll be darned like an old sock if I can think of the words I should know to it; I'll post a separate thread on it. And finally, the (not particularly distinguished) Esperanto version of America the Beautiful, which I hope to translate better someday myself. Liland |
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19 Feb 02 - 01:55 AM (#653195) Subject: Lyr Add: WASURENAGUSA O ANATA NI From: masato sakurai "Gumi" is THIS PLANT, bearing little red fruit in the autumn. The Japanese for "rowan-tree" is "nanakamado", which may be a prosaic-sounding word for a song, unlike poetical and nostalgic "gumi".
WASURENAGUSA O ANATA NI ("Forget-me-not For You")
Wakaretemo wakaretemo kokoro no oku ni
Itsuno yo mo ituno yo mo wakareru hito to
Yorukobi no yorokobi no ~Masato
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19 Feb 02 - 07:30 PM (#653690) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: Haruo Yeah, nanakamado (though my dictionary gives "nanakamado" for "mountain ash" and "service tree", and "miyamananakamado" for "rowan"). Thanks for the lyrics. Liland |
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19 Feb 02 - 07:39 PM (#653694) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai "miyama": from "mi-" honorific prefix + "yama" mountain. ~Masato |
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19 Feb 02 - 08:28 PM (#653716) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai "The Slender Rowan-Tree -- Traditional" is on Balalaika Ensemble: Kamarinskaya (with sound clip); and "The Slender Mountain Ash - Tonkaya Ryabina" is on Songs of Old Russia, Vol. 2 (with no sound clip). ~Masato |
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19 Feb 02 - 08:33 PM (#653719) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai The first link is to (Classical search); the second to Amazon. |
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19 Feb 02 - 08:37 PM (#653721) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai How careless! The first link is to CDNOW (Classical search); the second to Amazon. |
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01 Jun 02 - 07:34 PM (#721300) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: GUEST,Liland/haruo I have been discussing "gumi" on the Usenet newsgroup sci.lang.japan, and we appear to have determined that it is of the genus Elaeagnus, probably species pungens, closely related but not identical to the American silverberry E. commutata and the Russian olive or oleaster E. angustifolia. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any consensus on the English for it, so maybe we're better off just saying gumi in English, or Elaeagnus pungens if it fits the meter better... Liland/haruo |
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15 Jun 02 - 08:37 AM (#730454) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Service Tree Song From: masato sakurai "Gumi" is edible and the word rekindles nostalgic memories. I've read recently in a songbook note that Russian "ryabina" bear bitter fruit nobody or no bird would like to eat. ~Masato |