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16 Feb 02 - 05:57 AM (#651415) Subject: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles There was a quote on TV last night from Elizabethan England (or rather was Mary Quenn of Scots, Scotland). It was condemming a court celebration for 'dancing and debauchery'. It seemed to sum up church and official attitudes towards dancing at least here. When dancing (and music) is part of just about every gathering of human beings, how/why do offical attitudes in history appear to be so anti dancing, in particular?
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16 Feb 02 - 06:06 AM (#651417) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull I don't like dancing.I only ever dance if I am drunk, but if you get too drunk you could fall over! |
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16 Feb 02 - 06:12 AM (#651419) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: John Routledge "Dancing and debauchery" might have been an Elizabethan euphemism for an orgy. |
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16 Feb 02 - 06:25 AM (#651422) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles Exactly the point, this impression would appear to have be set, That where ever dancing take place, so does a bit of the other........... |
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16 Feb 02 - 06:46 AM (#651426) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Shambles, the Puritans brought their attitude over the pond when they came. That attitude prevailed in New England for a long time, and traveled south and west. There are still places where sex is frowned on, as it may lead to dancing! |
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16 Feb 02 - 06:55 AM (#651432) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: John Routledge Animaterra :0) :0) |
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16 Feb 02 - 07:55 AM (#651452) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Maryrrf I once questioned a fundamentalist christian as to why he was opposed to dancing. He replied that dancing mimics the sex act and therefore dancing is equivalent to having sex. (Not in my book it isn't!). I then asked why he was opposed to drinking wine, when Christ's first miracle was turning water into wine for the wedding at Cana. He said that it was because today's wine is "chemically produced" and the wine in Christ's time was "natural". In the course of the conversation he also informed me that the Smurfs are demonic. I remained polite but I must admit I was stupefied that he could say all these things with a straight face. I can assure you that he was totally sincere! |
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16 Feb 02 - 08:14 AM (#651461) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles Smurfs were not blue, before they started with the wine drinking and the dancing. Be warned............ |
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16 Feb 02 - 09:44 AM (#651488) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Liz the Squeak But Smurfs ARE demonic..... And dancing for me leads to the nearest casualty unit!! Sex on the other hand, hasn't (well, from what I remember of it....) LTS |
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16 Feb 02 - 11:17 AM (#651499) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Mr Red As John Betjaman said, it is the "vertical expression of horizontal desire". And as his brother said - "You're a Betjaman than I am Gungadin!" |
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16 Feb 02 - 11:21 AM (#651502) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Mr Red Ah attitude - as in inclination and disposition. When people ask me how I am I invariably reply "Jumping with Joy" Joy thought it was funny at first and gets her laughs from their reactions - usually at ceilidhs. Oggle Band at Wroughton (Swindon) 2nite. |
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16 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM (#651513) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: GUEST,MAG at work I had a Scotthish prof once who insisted Jesus turned the water into grape juice at Cana -- he was quite serious, too. |
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16 Feb 02 - 03:08 PM (#651651) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Charcloth Just for the record, I am generaly considered a fundamentalist Christain. BUT, I disagree with the type folks you mentioned. I don't know where they are coming from. Psalms 150:4 reads "Praise him with the timbrel & dance" also Psalm 149:3 "Let them praise his name in dance" I could go on, but remember it wasn't that long ago the fiddle was called the "Devils Box". To be sure, there are some dances I feel are indecent, just as there are some songs & gestures & such in the same vein, but some folks on both sides will never see the merit in their opposition's view. So I refuse to debate the issue. You can't change someones mind if they know it all. Charcloth |
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16 Feb 02 - 04:10 PM (#651682) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: GUEST As I recall, somewhere in the middling dark ages there was a real problem with ergot on wheat which caused "St. Vitus Dance". People just up and off and danced, neglecting all their tasks. This was frowned on. So, instead of forbidding people to eat wheat, they forbid them to dance. ET |
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16 Feb 02 - 04:26 PM (#651688) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles To be sure, there are some dances I feel are indecent, just as there are some songs & gestures & such in the same vein, but some folks on both sides will never see the merit in their opposition's view. So I refuse to debate the issue. You can't change someones mind if they know it all.
I know very little (for sure) but I am not sure that I consider any dance to be indecent, and I am also not sure what exactly the word indecent means anyway. I am quite willing to debate the issue with anyone however.
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16 Feb 02 - 04:53 PM (#651705) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: GUEST,Jim Dixon Animaterra: I heard it this way: Q. Why is it Baptists don't believe in having sex standing up? A. Because it might lead to dancing. It's not only Baptists of course. My wife grew up in a very small town in southeastern Minnesota that only had one church, and that was Lutheran. The local high school didn't have dances because the Lutherans opposed it. I think this was an old Norwegian or Swedish viewpoint. It has changed since then. Anyway, other kinds of Lutherans are not so stodgy. |
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16 Feb 02 - 05:09 PM (#651716) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: McGrath of Harlow I've never heard Mary Queen of Scots was any kind of Puritan. Presumably it was one of her court celebrations sthat was being condemned by the current Ian Paisley.
The expression "dancing and debauchery" recognises a distinction between the two activities, while indicating that the two activities can coexist in a social setting, which is quite true.
The same of course is true of tennis. The funny thing is you never seem to hear people talking about tennis and debauchery.
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16 Feb 02 - 08:03 PM (#651809) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles New balls please! |
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16 Feb 02 - 08:06 PM (#651812) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles At Wimbledon, it is the custom for the winner of the ladies singles to (you know, nudge nudge) 'dance' with the winner of the mens singles |
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16 Feb 02 - 08:32 PM (#651822) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Charcloth Lap dancing & watching someone grab their crotch are a couple of things I have no desire to take my family to see |
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16 Feb 02 - 08:43 PM (#651824) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Charcloth Sorry about the last post I hit the wrong key before I was finished. I only inteneded it for clarification & not as a rebuttal. Some folks see only bad in every thing & some see only good in everything. With those types you are wasting time discussing anything. Free dicusion & sharing of views is one thing that is a blessing and is benifical. Arguing & ranting is something else. That's why we have the trouble with trolls of late. I just try to avoid possibilities for trolls. That is all I intended to say. I meant no offense to you Shambles Charcloth |
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16 Feb 02 - 09:01 PM (#651831) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles Lap dancing & watching someone grab their crotch are a couple of things I have no desire to take my family to see
I can understand that but I an not sure I would either of them as indecent, not to my taste as family entertainment, possibly.
I am not being funny here but it is strange world and there is the possibility that you may one day find a member of your own family doing these things. There are a lot worse things that they could be involved in surely? |
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16 Feb 02 - 09:13 PM (#651845) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Charcloth I know & I have seen worse out of one of my sons it is painful to look at. One always wants the best for their Children & grandchildren too Charcloth |
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17 Feb 02 - 03:23 AM (#651954) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: The Shambles I am sorry this causes you distress and there is no need to say what exactly 'the worse' is but we all have, at some point accept that our children have the choice.
No matter what they may choose to do, we know in our hearts that they are not evil, indecent or any of the other words......... Even if they do choose to join a Morris side. *Smiles* |
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17 Feb 02 - 08:40 AM (#652030) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Charcloth no poblem Let's Dance Charcloth |
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17 Feb 02 - 02:50 PM (#652236) Subject: RE: Attitudes to dancing. From: Herga Kitty I started as a singer (because I have a voice), I played percussion (spoons, tambourine, hammered dulcimer) in ceilidh bands, because my husband was a musician (and I have very small hands and fingers so percussion was easier than wind or string instruments). I danced because my husband went off with another member of the band, and I lost a lot of weight. Dancing was wonderful, indeed euphoric, but did my knees in, so now it's back to singing... |