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09 Mar 02 - 02:41 AM (#665610) Subject: JUDAS-what does it mean? From: toadfrog I was curious about this legend or ballad, so that as soon as I got the first volume of the English and Scottish Popular Ballads, I looked to see what Prof. Child would say. A bit disappointing. Generally I agree with Malcom that you should not read too much into songs (or legends. But it seemed to me this was a very interesting kind of religious sensibility. As if Judas was as good a disciple as any, and was forced into a preordained role against his will. Jesus gave him thirty pieces of silver, to buy dinner for the apostles, and told him, go by such a route, perhaps you will meet your relatives. Jesus, of course, must know what will happen, for he knows Peter will deny Him. And Judas meets his sister, who seemingly steals the silver. And Judas tears out his hair. And he will betray his Master, but only in return for the same thirty pieces he lost. That isn't the Biblical Judas, but it is darkly fascinating. Does anyone know more about this legend? Has anyone more recent than Prof. Child considered it? I have no idea what "thirty pieces of silver" meant in biblical times; my source says Matthew got the sum from Zechariah. But in the Thirteenth Century, where the ballad seems to have originated, thirty Shillings was a whole lot of money. |
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09 Mar 02 - 03:49 AM (#665616) Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS From: masato sakurai If you have an opportunity, try to find these articles (though not easy-to-read ones in scholarly journals) at local or college libraries:
Paul Franklin Baum, "The English Ballad of Judas Iscariot." PMLA [Publications of the Modern Language Association], vol. 31 (1916), pp. 181-189.
I remember reading parts of them some twenty years ago, but have forgotten the contents. The manuscript (with transcription and translation) of "Judas" is online (Click here). ~Masato
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09 Mar 02 - 09:21 PM (#666021) Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS From: toadfrog Thanks. Very impressive bibliography. I may well get to one of those. That 150 page article may well be more comprehensive than I could deal with. The ballad makes Pilate into a Jew! What an infuriating piece of slander! |
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09 Mar 02 - 11:04 PM (#666057) Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS From: masato sakurai On inaccuracies in Child's text, click here (from The Traditional Ballad Index). Masato |
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10 Mar 02 - 05:26 AM (#666149) Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS From: The Shambles Stand Up For Judas. Link to a thread with the posted words to this fine song, that has yet to appear in the DT. |
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10 Mar 02 - 05:32 PM (#666475) Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS From: Phil Cooper Another good song from Judas' perspective is Roy Harper's "Baby Don't You Grieve." |