|
26 Mar 02 - 02:49 AM (#676392) Subject: stick to the point From: Doug Chadwick When I first logged on to the Mudcat Cafe, I thought I had found "a magazine dedicated to blues and folk music". An awful lot of those posting to the discussion group seem to have missed this. I realise that there is a "BS" prefix to flag up that the topic may be a side issue, but I would have expectd them to be, at least in some way, music related. Recent topics have included the plainly abusive (re Margaret Thatcher) which some imagine may pass for political satire; Serious social concerns (re Catholic priests); and purile discusions about ruins on Mars. If peolpe want to chat about items unrelated to music then why don't they join or start up specialist, politacal, social, UFO or whatever websites and leave Mudcat to those who enjoy music.
|
|
26 Mar 02 - 02:55 AM (#676394) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Haruo Doug, it's not just a magazine; it's also a café. (And a huge one.) I think everybody who spends any significant amount of time here "enjoys music", but when you go to a café to play music (much less to listen to music) is that all you allow those at your table to do while they're there? Liland |
|
26 Mar 02 - 02:57 AM (#676395) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: CarolC Welcome to the Mudcat Doug. Do you realize that you just started a thread of the very sort that you don't like and that will, most probably blossom into an extremely long winded debate about what the Mudcat is all about and what it's supposed to be about, and will in all likelihood, spawn at least one or two sequel threads after this one gets too long? |
|
26 Mar 02 - 02:58 AM (#676396) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST yawn |
|
26 Mar 02 - 03:38 AM (#676402) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland I agree with Carol c and also Liland, This is a disscussion fourm, and that means we can talk about almost anything.
|
|
26 Mar 02 - 05:08 AM (#676439) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Nigel Parsons Why doesn't this thread have a BS prefix ? |
|
26 Mar 02 - 05:31 AM (#676447) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST What a dumb thread! |
|
26 Mar 02 - 05:53 AM (#676451) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland Guest, If it's dumb as you say it is, then why post on it Dummy |
|
26 Mar 02 - 06:37 AM (#676456) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Banjer Here we go again! The last one of these debates has not long ago ended and things returned to almost normal (as normal as things can get around here *BG*). Just as Liland asks above, do you speak of only one subject whenever you get together with friends? If that is the case I suggest expanding your horizons! The folks here at Mudcat are a multinational, diversified group and have interests in more than one area. I myself have learned a lot about more than music here over the years. I would suggest to Doug Chadwick, (not maliciously mind you) that if he would have a forum dedicated to only one subject he might look into a moderated news group. Otherwise, Doug, loosen up the collar, kick off the shoes and enjoy the many different facets available on the diamond that is the Mudcat! |
|
26 Mar 02 - 06:47 AM (#676462) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Wolfgang Doug, I just want you to know that you are not alone. Though I do post to some of the BS threads, my preference would be a Mudcat Cafe without them. But that seems to be a minority position here. Wolfgang |
|
26 Mar 02 - 07:37 AM (#676477) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU MY dear new pal... As you see, this topic has come up on many occations, in fact, just recently. You have not stepped into a victorian gentlemans club... you have entered the dark and dangerous realm of folk, populated, not only by the gentlefolk with tape recorders, doing field work, but the real unwashed and crunchy folk who make and sing and play the... music. A lot of the BS, comes from those of us, the demi mond of the road, with dirt under our fingernails, behind our ears, and on our resumes... who are mad (crazy) or mad (angered) enough to make our lives on the music grindstone. As I recently said, in the last of these posts, our music is closely tied to what our interests and madness stems from the BS of our day. So, set asside your port wine for an instant, put a black cloth over your portrate of Maggie and the Queen (I don't want to see what they are up to in that picture anyway!!!!) and come give us a hug and have a pint of the real prolitarian stuff with us (diet coke for me!) The water is fine, dear brother, and the music is better. Don't mind a bit of ribbing... and between the two of us, (don't tell the others..) I am not a fan of Maggie or Ronny, but I am a wee bit put off by jokes about them, though I have a sneeking suspician that Ronny, Maggie and Dennis have made a few off color jokes about the likes of us!) Well, I am off to mars on the wings of a little hawk... Larry |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:39 AM (#676497) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: McGrath of Harlow I am against threads about things you can't have a song about. But then I cannot imagine anything you couldn't have a song about.
As Doug will find out, threads that start out about songs can get into talking about other things, and the other way round. So, to turn this one in the song and music direction, can anybody suggest a subject that could not be the topic of a song? And then the others can prove that's not the case. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:44 AM (#676501) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Watson I'm glad to see we're all sticking to the point in this thread. That must be very gratifying for Doug. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:46 AM (#676504) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Jon Freeman I think it is well known that some would prefer a music only Mudcat and can even feel uncomfortable with the BS while like to chat about anything here. Max has indicated that the upgrade will contain filtering technology which should enable users to get more of their own view of the forum, i.e. a music forum for one user and a more general forum for another. Until the upgrade is introduced and we get a chance to see how the new system functions, I see no point in further discssions/arguments on this subject. I just hope the upgrade arrives sooner rather than later. Jon |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:51 AM (#676509) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: John J Doug, your point is a valid one, BUT (very big but) the Mudcat is a community consisting mainly of people with an interest in folk / blues. Those people, like you and I, have other interests that we like to discuss with fellow members. It would be a rare person indeed who's only interest was folk and / or blues. I have had a huge amount of help, musical and otherwise, from the Mudcat. Such a diverse range of members provide a fantastic source of a huge amount of information. Welcome to the Mudcat. It is an invaluable source of information, stored or provided by the members. It is infuriating at times, provides some of the biggest smiles I'm capable of producing, but is ALWAYS informative. Enjoy it for what it is: brilliant. John |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:55 AM (#676510) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Mooh Great song material here. Thanks. Mooh. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:02 AM (#676516) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST Just to emphasis JohnJ's point: someone asked for the lyrics to a particular version of 'Cruel Mother' a short while ago and within 15 minutes was referred to the lyrics, a MIDI file for it, some commentary, and a number of recordings. This place does know its music! So what if we discuss other stuff as well? As long as people can tell them apart using 'BS' like this thread *G* |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:09 AM (#676523) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU Nice to know that some of the folkologists want to put us folkbugs under the microscope without being bothered with what our interests are... sound like the process of making folk a "classical artform" ... gee... I am honored! Cheers Larry PS To welcome ya in, and let you know we really do appreciate you here, PM me and I will send ya a CD... (no surprise folks eh?) |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:27 AM (#676532) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Jim Dixon Doug: A lot of people around here agree with you, but we've mostly given up trying to change the habits of the others who don't. This cafe has no bouncer, and without one, anything goes. With practice, you can learn to recognize the threads about music, and just ignore the rest. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:33 AM (#676538) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Amos I think the age old issue about what folk music IS should be reviewed here, and that to start we should break it down into its component parts. It is made up of two words: folk, and music. So perhaps we should ask ourselves, "What are folk?". It will be much easier, once that is fully clarified, to go ahead with the next difficult issue, "What IS music?" This will provide those who wish to constrain the conversations on the Mudcat with clear consensus and guidance for establishing the important policy guidelines as to which conversations do and do not qualify. I would like to request that the discussion, however, be conducted off-line -- perhaps by long distance teleconferences -- amongst those wishing to particpate, and that only the conclusions, thoroughly documented, be posted to the Forum. A reasonable thing to do would be to provide an expected delivery date for these results, so I will suggest we should expect the first draft of the results by the end of April, 2009. Do let us know how you are getting along. A. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:33 AM (#676539) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU Anything goes!!! Jim! Watch what you say or Spaw will be dancing on the table in the alltogether!!!!!!!! Cheers Larry Ps Jim... just ribbing you cuz (my 5th back granny was Sarah Dixon...) but I guess you stumbled onto this one by accident? ;-) |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:37 AM (#676543) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU Please forgive me for this, but I am reminded of the portly English gent in his bowler hat, brollie tucked under his arm, at the newstand, looking at a pornographic magazine, flipping page to page saying, "Disgusting! Disgusting! Such things should not be allowed!!!" Smile brothers... Larry |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:37 AM (#676544) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: irishajo Had it not been for the BS threads, I probably wouldn't still be lurking around this site. When someone first told me about this place, I had a rather vague interest in folk music. I had a few Peter Paul and Mary and Chieftains CDs, and grew up listening to a lot of bluegrass/country/hymn music. That was about it. To be honest, if this site was 100% music, I probably wouldn't have kept coming back. But some of the literary/political threads piqued my interest. As a result of hanging around and reading those types of threads over the past year, I've also read many of the music threads and gotten a LOT more interested in folk/blues music. I've found a ton of new (to me) artists. I learned about Paltalk and was even persuaded by Jon Freeman to sing a few times (something I haven't done in years). Now I'm looking to buy a guitar (thanks to this site I have a better idea of what to look for). Anyway, as much as I don't want to add fuel to the fire here thought I'd say that for at least one person, the BS threads have not detracted from the music but more pushed me in that direction. Amy |
|
26 Mar 02 - 09:50 AM (#676554) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: reggie miles Doug, all of these others have said more eloquently what my feelings are about this subject. Like some of these folks, I carefully thought out my view point and included them on the last thread of this subject, adding my testimony to the value of these seemingly nonrelated chats. It is indeed difficult for some to see this value, I suppose, as it is difficult to see the value in anything we have, or think we have, little need of in this life. If you deem they are of no value to you then you must use your energy to post to only those threads that you find valuable and by doing so your experience will be satisfying. A guy walks into a doctors office and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this." The doctor says, "Don't do that!" ;^) dockter o' thinkology, Reg |
|
26 Mar 02 - 10:00 AM (#676561) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Kim C BS is nothing more than food for songs. :-) |
|
26 Mar 02 - 10:17 AM (#676577) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: reggie miles How very true Kim C. As a musician/entertainer where would I be without all that BS to segue into my next song. Segues are the hardest part of my job. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 10:29 AM (#676588) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: little john cameron Ah'll tell whit gets oan mah wick!It's the moaners an' groaners like Doug wha post here aboot the non-music threeds.If ye took the time tae coont the percentage ye wid see that the VAST MAJORITY are music related. Ah hae a web site that is strugglin tae get posts on onythin. It is a stupid complaint an' ah'm surprised at masel for answerin it.The solution is obvious Doug. ljc |
|
26 Mar 02 - 10:40 AM (#676595) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Lepus Rex You know, I was annoyed when I first read the initial post by Doug Chadwick. It was whiney, snobbish, insulting, etc. "What a dickweed," I though. But then I RE-read it using the voice of Kelsey Grammer as Frasier Crane, and changed my mind. You are one (unintentionally) hilarious man, Doug Chadwick. I hope you never change. :} ---Lepus Rex |
|
26 Mar 02 - 10:50 AM (#676602) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU Och, wee maun, wee John, Aye kin what ye mean, the answer is clear, a single malt, feet up on the table, whistle t' the lips, and let fly w' a gude reel! Slante, Celtic cuz, Larry |
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:14 AM (#676624) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: McGrath of Harlow And I notice that noone has come up with any examples of topics that could not be subjects for songs. I'm not surprised. If it were topics that have not so far been topics for songs it might be more possible - but even so it's not easy. The very act of identifying a topic is likely to be the first stage in creating a song of some kind about it. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:14 AM (#676625) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Bobert Now there ain't nuthin' makes this ol' hillbilly madder than one more person steppin' to the plate with an elitist, exclusionary chip on their shoulder. Hey, this is a community. Not a column of goosesteppin' cookie-cutter, look-alike, sound-alike, think-alike, fresh-off-the-assembly-line...folk singers. Like the bumper stciker says: "The mind is like a parchute. It won't work if its not open." Danged.... Bobert
|
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:15 AM (#676626) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: McGrath of Harlow Now I can understand Doug Chadwick raising the point he does. But what puzzles me is that whenever anyone does raise this issue you always get a few people who don't seem to see any contradiction between complaining about the presence of non-music threads in the very process of contributing to a non-music thread. It strikes me that the same logic should apply here as it does with trolls and so forth - if you don't like something in this kind of context, the best thing to do is ignore it completely. If you don't like non-music threads don't add to them.
Myself I like the freedom to have all kinds of threads. If this was a music only site with the kind of rules and regulations about never drifting threads that seem to be prevalent, I doubt if I'd visit all that often, and that would have been my loss. And if it changed so that music wasn't the thing that links us here, I'm sure most of us wouldn't stay for too long or visit too often. It's a balancing act.
|
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:24 AM (#676635) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: MMario The main point is that although the e-magazine is according to the header dedicated to Blues and Folk - per the owner/creator (that would be Max) the FORUM is not.
|
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:41 AM (#676642) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: kendall If this were a "music only" site, I would not have received scores of e mails, PM's and comments in the forum about my problem. I cant tell you how valuable those have been to me. It's enough to make me renew my faith in humanity. As long as BS doesn't REPLACE music, I see no reason to complain. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:43 AM (#676646) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Uncle_DaveO When I first came to Mudcat I thought I need to read everything. Today, I think I actually READ fewer than one in ten threads (which keeps me pretty busy in any case). In many cases (whether music or not) I can tell by the thread name that I'm not interested, so I skip over them. In many more cases I'm not sure, so I open the thread and read the first one or maybe two posts. If it's not what I want to spend my time and attention on, MY BACK BUTTON WORKS JUST FINE, THANK YOU! Go thou and do likewise. Dave Oesterreich |
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:47 AM (#676651) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Kim C Y'know, MMario, you're RIGHT! Perhaps it is merely a matter of semantics; however, the header does say "a magazine dedicated to blues and folk music," not a "site", not a "forum." The magazine component definitely is what it says it is. So y'all who get irritated that some of us like to participate in a little inane conversation now and again, just click on the Emuzine link at the top of the page. :-) |
|
26 Mar 02 - 11:47 AM (#676652) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST,maryrrf Well, it's easy enough to ignore the threads you aren't interested in. I do it all the time - just like television shows. If it doesn't interest me I don't watch it. I may take a look and if it doesn't grab my attention I change the channel. Easy enough to do that with postings, and usually the title will tip you off. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 12:02 PM (#676664) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Doug Chadwick: Though I disagree with your opinion, I have to say that I'm glad to see that you became a member of Mudcat and that you are posting your opinion under your own member-name. Too often I've seen this sort of complaint posted by a GUEST who either hasn't bothered to join up, or is a member but doesn't wish to be identified as such. So, thanks for "owning up" to your viewpoint and for being willing to accept the risk that you might be criticized as a result both on the Forum and in Private Messages. I sincerely hope that you have not received any abusive Private Messages (if you do, please notify the Mudcat administrators). I've noticed from your posting history that you have contributed only to music threads on the Forum (except for this BS-about-Mudcat thread). That, of course, is your privilege, and no one here is going to force you to do otherwise. Likewise, the administrators at Mudcat are not going to force people to post comments on some topics and not others. If you read through the FAQ, you'll realize that that is Max's aim (Max being the head guy here). When Max's upgrade is in place, you won't have to suffer through reading the titles of BS threads as you search for threads that will interest you. In the meantime, please be patient for that upgrade to arrive! Please do continue to read, and post to, those threads that you like... but remember that, as others have said, some BS threads are directly related to music as well and some BS discussions turn toward music as they progress! It is as you say: Mudcat is for those who enjoy music. No matter what sort of BS we sometimes chat about, virtually all of the BS'ers enjoy music and contribute to music threads as well as BS threads. By all means, stay "on topic" if that's what you enjoy doing, but please don't deny others the enjoyment of incorporating our music into our daily lives, and our daily lives into our music. Thanks, Sharon |
|
26 Mar 02 - 12:30 PM (#676683) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Doug Chadwick OK!! 'nuff said. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 12:56 PM (#676698) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: YOR Nuff said! OK, Somebody change the topic. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 01:06 PM (#676702) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Fortunato Welcome to the mudcat, Doug. Here's the poop. Click the threads you like, and let the others be. Grab yourself a pint of Guiness and an InOBU CD and chill out. It's kind of like petting a puppy. cheers. Fortunato |
|
26 Mar 02 - 01:14 PM (#676705) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Skipjack K8 Welcome, Doug. Sorry you alighted on one of the two plat du jour here, BS & flame wars. Where do you practice music? Skipjack |
|
26 Mar 02 - 02:04 PM (#676734) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: McGrath of Harlow And that was very gracious Doug. Thanks, and welcome. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 03:10 PM (#676777) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Bobert And, geeze, ol' bobert has calmed down now and...ahhh... sorry about the goose-steppin' comment above, Doug. Now ain't things gattin' warm and fuzzy here?... Now, yeah, tell us about your music.... |
|
26 Mar 02 - 03:19 PM (#676782) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST,Lyle Mr. Doug Chadwick: A much more reasoned approach would be for you, if you don't like what is going on here, to start your own web site and limit it to who-or-what ever you like. Then you would be much happier, and Mudcat could continue on as it has lo these many years. Lyle |
|
26 Mar 02 - 03:36 PM (#676791) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU LYLE! Man said 'Nuff! Time to let the brother up and talk music with him!!! Someone pour Doug a pint. Step up t'the bar, and tell us about your musical tastes.... Larry |
|
26 Mar 02 - 03:54 PM (#676796) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Yeah, Doug, 'fess up! So far, all we know is that you tend to lose black picks on a dark floor... :^) |
|
26 Mar 02 - 04:04 PM (#676801) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU SharonA! There is a new thread... a sort of patch up and have a drink with Doug... a drink and tune for Brother Chadwick... Cheers Larry |
|
26 Mar 02 - 04:07 PM (#676803) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Jon Freeman post on upgrade to separate general discussion from music: My vote is against this proposal. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 05:22 PM (#676856) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: InOBU Me too, Dicho... NOW go have a pint with Doug in the Pint and a Tune with Brother Chadwick post. Cheers pal,Larry |
|
26 Mar 02 - 07:55 PM (#677000) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Jon Freeman Dicho, I'm not sure I understand you. The Upgrade as far as I understand it already has filters in place so it is not a proposal. No one is calling for 2 separate forums. The call is purely to allow people to be able to view what they want to do without viewing threads that they currently do not want to. Please explain to me why giving users the ability to automatically skip BS threads they have no intersest in should trouble anyone. Jon
|
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:04 PM (#677020) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: poor lonesome boy I thought BS was short for a dirty word. No wonder I'm always disappointed. |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:11 PM (#677034) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Celtic Soul A friend of mine used to say the following to newsgroup folk when they complained about content: "Manage your own damn usenet". Now, personally, I think it a bit harsh, but I agree with the underlying sentiment. Manage your own time here. It's no one elses responsibility to post the way you think they should. Avoid what you don't want to read by not reading it. If you want music only threads, avoid like the plague the ones marked "BS" and anything else that does not have something related to music in the title. But to ask the entire group of Catters (in the hundreds) to live up to your expectations of what this place should be is not only not very realistic, but additionally, you will likely only be disappointed. So, why not pull up a chair, sit in the corner of the cafe where the music talk is and enjoy. :D |
|
26 Mar 02 - 08:20 PM (#677045) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Noreen A drink and a tune for Brother Chadwick |
|
27 Mar 02 - 05:02 AM (#677216) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Wolfgang But what puzzles me is that whenever anyone does raise this issue you always get a few people who don't seem to see any contradiction between complaining about the presence of non-music threads in the very process of contributing to a non-music thread. There is no contradiction at all, McGrath. If I'm in a concert and don't like other persons talking to each other while I try to listen I tell them to be silent. In that very moment of telling them I add to the noise I don't like in the hope that in the long run it'll be more silent. Taking your argument serious would mean that nobody may complain about BS threads at all for the very act of complaining adds to the BS. Wolfgang |
|
27 Mar 02 - 11:47 AM (#677433) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Wolfgang says, "If I'm in a concert and don't like other persons talking to each other while I try to listen I tell them to be silent. In that very moment of telling them I add to the noise I don't like in the hope that in the long run it'll be more silent." I must take issue with this analogy. In a concert hall's auditorium, one is not supposed to speak at all during the performance (about the music or about anything else). One is supposed to listen. But surely, before and after the concert and during intermissions, the people at the concert hall talk about more than just the music they've heard. Would you walk around the lobby insisting that people desist from discussing anything but the evening's program? Of course not. By the same token, at Mudcat (concert hall), the BS threads (intermission in the lobby) are separate from the music threads (performance in the auditorium). If someone starts BS'ing in a music thread, by all means discourage them if you wish the thread to remain "on topic". But complaining in a BS thread that BS shouldn't exist there is like trying to shush people in a concert hall's lobby: not only does it add to the noise but it serves no purpose since there is no music there to listen to. |
|
27 Mar 02 - 11:52 AM (#677436) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: MMario CS - it's your turn to give me a chuckle, I guess. Familiar phrase indeed. |
|
27 Mar 02 - 12:18 PM (#677443) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST,Wolfgang Sharon, you're not getting my point at all. The analogy was not that Mudcat is like a concert (that would be stupid, for in a concert even talk about the music is not allowed with good reasons) but that the act of asking for silence in a concert is similar to the act of asking for less BS threads in Mudcat in the following respect (and nothing else): You have to add more of what you do not want in order to get less in the long run. To do so seems to me an action without any contradiction. This and nothing else was my point. Wolfgang |
|
27 Mar 02 - 12:23 PM (#677447) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: MMario Wolfgang - I see it more as cable channels on a TV; and removing the non-music threadsd equivilant to asking the cable company to remove the channels you don't like even if you don't watch them! |
|
27 Mar 02 - 12:42 PM (#677455) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Lepus Rex I though there already was some sort of rudimentary BS-filter? The one WYSIWYG is always talking about? Use that, save the energy you BS haters use up for whining, use that energy on the (100% pure, BS-free) music threads. Most people here (probably like 90+% of them, actually), actually like the non-music threads. Oor if they don't, they simply ingore them. Maybe someone should do a poll, to make this clear to you, the whiners. ;) ---Lepus Rex |
|
27 Mar 02 - 12:58 PM (#677461) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST,Wolfgang Perhaps, MMario, perhaps not. The idea with the cable TV channels is that everybody is served and in that respect it is better compared to the whole internet. I never would complain that there are too many sites on the web I do not consider useful. But if my channel of choice with a special topic in its title would change the programme I might consider complaining. The issue is whether this site should stay topical or not (some argue that a site about music never can be atopical but I don't consider this an argument worth of refutation). I do not see anything remotely similar to a majority for a change so I usually don't discuss the issue. As long as this is so, your advice with the channels to pick from is probably very wise and helpful. However if someone else brings up the issue I shall voice support and shall point out what I consider bad arguments. Wolfgang |
|
27 Mar 02 - 01:00 PM (#677464) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST to filter out BS, set your mudcat bookmark as http://www.mudcat.org/threadsnot.cfm?Title=BS: |
|
27 Mar 02 - 01:13 PM (#677471) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Lepus Rex Thanks, guest. :) ---Lepus Rex |
|
27 Mar 02 - 01:25 PM (#677480) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: MMario True Wolfgang. I may not agree but I do sympathize. |
|
27 Mar 02 - 02:10 PM (#677524) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Wolfgang: Thanks for clarifying that. I still disagree with the premise that Max should change his website into something he doesn't want it to be, but of course you have every right to make your opinion known. They say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but in this case the "grease" is the Mudcat upgrade to filter out BS for those who don't want to read it, not a fundamental change in posting policy that neither the site administrator nor the majority of posters wants. It seems like a satisfactory compromise to me! |
|
27 Mar 02 - 02:56 PM (#677552) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: McGrath of Harlow "Taking your argument serious would mean that nobody may complain about BS threads at all for the very act of complaining adds to the BS."
Not quite, but close. I'm not suggesting that people may not do so - but I am suggesting that in doing so they are involved in the paradoxical process of reinforcing what they are complaining about.
Paradoxes like that happen all the time. A neighbour makes too much noise and the person objecting to it starts shouting at them and makes even more noise.
In the Mudcat it happens when we get roused up by some troll and responding to them - and most of us have now learnt that the best thing is to ignore them (which is difficult sometimes). The business about non-music threads isn't quite the same (though there have been times when the issue has been exploited by trolls) - but it does have something in common. And the same way of dealing with it is appropriate for people who would sooner they weren't there, or that there weren't as many of them. |
|
27 Mar 02 - 10:03 PM (#677810) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Jon Freeman I'm tired of a lot of this and things seem to be going the way I'd hoped they would but I thought I would say this... I'm not so clear the majority issue raised here. To quote Max:
There is a Mudcat clique, or core group, if you will. I call you the 1%ers. Half of my design efforts, functions, doodads, are for the 1%ers, half are for the other 99%. The 1%ers are so because they're here a lot, and they post a lot, not for any other reason than that. [middle bit snipped] You are the 1%, which means you are not the majority by far. Try not to forget about the other 99%. The implication I read from this is that the frequent posters, do not nececceserily represent a clear majority of visitors to the site on these issues. I think it is fair to suggest that a vast majority of regulars here (myself included and personally I believe it has musical benifits too) do enjoy a certain ammount of BS here but I would be reluctant to class this as a majority view. My own feeling is that the majority of people who visit Mudcat come here purely for (musical) information and are normally silent while a relitavely small % of us chat. In particular, I feel that (my interpretation) SharonA indicating that Max in introducing the filtering is catering to the whims of a minority is likely to be innacurate. If one was to suggest that these same moves were an attempt to make the forum more accessible and agreeable to a greater number of people, I would of course agree. Jon |
|
28 Mar 02 - 06:30 AM (#677981) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST,AT No finer truth than that written than above.
It is Max's Toy. He lets us play with it. He can take it home anytime he wants. If he says the game is "Horse" and we want to play "Real B-Ball" tough!
If you can do better, build a site and see if they come.
For personal reasons he prefers the hit rate high (a mine is bigger than yours mentality of males.)
As his guests he can determine his friends, motives, access, and his choice is his choice is his choice. |
|
28 Mar 02 - 09:45 AM (#678079) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: catspaw49 Jed, I'd say that's about the way I read that statement too. The real issue of BS vs. Music can and will be I think reasonably solved with a basic filter built into the update. The only problem there is that we have GOT to get into the habit of adding the BS to thread titles and I imagine that for awhile the elves/joeclones will be busy doing some interpreting of unlabeled threads. Also at times we have a few that are NOT BS and labeled as they are by folks who don't want to add to the controversy. This may not be the biggest issue we argue over, but it's right up there and eliminating it should, I hope, do wonders. Spaw |
|
28 Mar 02 - 10:12 AM (#678103) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Amos The call seems to be to have a machine filter out anything with BS in the title, so people don't have to do the tiring and thankless work of discriminating amongst thread titles, which is much too hard. Next generation we will have a (very glitchy) AI interface which senses your brain waves and only shows you things that would be compatible with them according to the very best research. We'll also have tiny micro-electronic chips into which you can downlaod profiles of brainwaves you think should be allowable, and which will dampen out all other brainwaves. That way you can shop once for your personality, and thereafter only see/read those things which the carefully researched scientific algorithms allow as appropriate for that chip. Life will be much easier, less demanding, and much less ambiguous. You won't have to put up with things that are different, challenging, or require investigation or orignal thought. That will all be taken care of by the system! Utopia, here we come! Enjoy!! A |
|
28 Mar 02 - 10:30 AM (#678124) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Pseudolus I agree, there should be a Pseudo-filter that not only filters threads out that I don't like but also filters out posts with opinions that don't agree with Pseudolus....NOW we're talking!!!! OK, I couldn't resist.... Frank |
|
28 Mar 02 - 10:33 AM (#678130) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: catspaw49 Amos and Frank........While I'm laughing at your posts, I am laughing wryly as I think you have both hit it on the head!!! Spaw |
|
28 Mar 02 - 10:37 AM (#678133) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: MMario psssssst - Amos! we already have that! it's called AOL! |
|
28 Mar 02 - 12:13 PM (#678256) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Jon Freeman (re your post here, of 27-Mar-02, 10:03 PM): Unfortunately, it's too late to stop you from misinterpreting what I said in my post here of 27-Mar-02, 02:10 PM. However, if you will go back and reread my statement carefully, you will notice that the "majority" I spoke of is "the majority of posters [to this forum]", not the majority of visitors to this site. Your statement that "the majority of people who visit Mudcat come here purely for (musical) information and are normally silent while a relatively small % of us chat" may be true. However, it is pointless to guess at what the silent visitors might want at this site. Unless they submit a post and make their wishes or suggestions known, they'll have to deal with what Max has provided for them. I understand that some disgruntled Mudcat members have "voted with their feet" and have stopped posting to music threads on the Forum, and that's a shame. Had they stuck around and been more vocal, they might have been perceived as the "majority" of posters. I'm not sure, though, whether Max would've arrived at a different solution in that case; he has been quite adamant about his refusal to create two separate forums on this site – and about his refusal to discourage BS'ers from posting – so I suspect that he still would have planned to implement the same (or a similar) upgrade to the site as the one that's now on the horizon. |
|
28 Mar 02 - 12:27 PM (#678275) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: Jon Freeman Yep, Sharon - agreed it was my misinterpretation - sorry. Jon |
|
28 Mar 02 - 12:55 PM (#678293) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: JedMarum I don't like the BS prefix. I don;t use it, but I don't think I've started a BS thread, either. Doug - welcome to Mudcat! You're correct, one has to separate the wheat from the chaff when using this forum, and sometimes there seems to be an awful lot of chaff! But there is always a gold mine of good stuff too, if you know where to look (old threads, DT or start a new thread). It's true that the surest way to create a thread that generates high response and long life is to start a politcal or social issue thread, preferably a controversial one at that, BUT for me the value of this place is, that when I do start a music thread, of just about any kind - I get some great responses - and I always learn more then I would have expected. There are some really knowledgeable music folks here - just waiting for threads of genuin interest to them. Create a few and you'll see! |
|
28 Mar 02 - 01:34 PM (#678315) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Jon: Apology accepted; all's okay! :^) |
|
02 Apr 02 - 02:39 AM (#681287) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: GUEST,Wolfgang I do agree that a majority of posts supports the present politics. As for a majority of posters I am less sure. Wolfgang |
|
02 Apr 02 - 09:56 AM (#681481) Subject: RE: stick to the point From: SharonA Wolfgang: Fair enough! Point taken. |