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27 Mar 02 - 02:49 AM (#677177) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: michaelr All right - I'll respond to one of these. #1 Peasant: while it can be safely said that the Mudcat community appreciates being hipped to new (old) songs, I personally would prefer them to be posted in correct spelling. It's one thing to wade through fake Scots accents, of which there are a few around here, but quite another (and quite annoying) to read blatant misspellings. I don't see any good reason to spell contradiction "contradicshun", or friendly "frindly", or table "tyeble". These may be good songs, but trying to read them in your version gives me a headache. Michael |
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27 Mar 02 - 02:55 AM (#677182) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: Seamus Kennedy Michael, I think #Peasant is showing us a fine example of Geordie dialect and song. It's worth the effort. Respectfully, Seamus |
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27 Mar 02 - 03:13 AM (#677187) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: Kernow John I have to agree with Seamus. For me the dialect enhances the songs. If you think the song works without the dialect it's easy enough to sing it that way, but for me reading it this way brings the song to life. Perhaps it's me mixed upbringing, born in Scotland, raised in 'ackney (you can't convey an East End song wivout misspelling)and now resident in Cornwall! KJ |
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27 Mar 02 - 11:52 AM (#677435) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: *#1 PEASANT* Sorry not to have noticed this before... Dialect takes some getting used to but if you work at it the wonder will carry you away. I myself do not insist that people maintain dialect-after it all it is the normal way of speaking for a group. Like the Irish Brogue - no need to put it on unless you want to. Or in this case if you can make it work by all means translate. Please though if you need any assistance with translating Geordie there are a few references I can direct you to. Part of the character of matching the tune and lyrics is the complementary lilt of the dialect. Conrad |
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27 Mar 02 - 11:57 AM (#677437) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: MMario I assumed he was transcribing accurately from older texts - the spelling on many of the Bodlian site broadsides looks very strange to modern eyes. If you look at the dates on some of Conrad's songs you will see they were published in the early 1800's. |
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27 Mar 02 - 12:29 PM (#677448) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: *#1 PEASANT* The Geordie dialect is still going strong. There is a great geordie usenet news group where you can engage native speakers. For reference there are a few on line geordie dictionaries. Try this one: Geordie dictionary clickie This is a web version of the Frank Graham dictionary. The one to find is Heslop's- Heslop's Northumberland Words (1892). I would like to get a copy of Heslop- The library of congress where I do much of my work only has one volume and it is in a sad state. Enjoy your pursuit of this grand way of talking. Conrad |
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27 Mar 02 - 12:53 PM (#677458) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: *#1 PEASANT* I forgot to mention this classic: Larn Yersel Geordie by Dobson, Scott 1st UK ed. Frank Graham, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK (1969) and once you get good....or maybe before... A Geordie Life of Jesus. by "Elliot, Andrew" "Newcastle-upon-Tyne: Frank Graham, 1974" "Pictorial Soft Cover. Very Good/N/A. First Edition. 8vo-over 7¾-9¾"" tall. ISBN: 0 85983 031 4. 32pp. """ enjoy! Conrad |
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27 Mar 02 - 10:57 PM (#677835) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: michaelr Yes, I understand about the dialect, but how does "contradicshun" SOUND different than "contradiction", or "frindly" different than "friendly"? Maybe it's because I live in the US, but it just seems silly to me... like spelling blues "blooze". The pronunciation is the same, so what's the point? Cheers, Michael |
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28 Mar 02 - 07:19 AM (#677992) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Contradictshun From: *#1 PEASANT* Yes! it does sound different. One of the best ways to appreciate this is to obtain a copy of the cd which contains the collected works of Tommy Armstrong. Recitation combined with verses of song is a strong tradition of the North East. The cd contains several passages of recitation from which you can get an idea of how the dialect sounds. Of course advocates of proper standard written english have had a profound impact upon the use of the dialect in writing but when I was in Durham at University I saw many examples of it in written form both in the press and in written communication from locals. My "bedder" used to write me the most amazin notes to me in dialect.....usually something refering to my peasant living standards and interior decorating which employed bottles of broon placed strategically so that they cast wonderous amber shades of light upon the furniture and walls..... I dont have the cd in hand but will find... I have not searched the web for audio but it is quite possible that there is a bit of dialect in recorded form somewhere. Anyone know of any? Conrad |