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21 Apr 02 - 08:40 PM (#695181) Subject: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Wincing Devil Seems quite simple to me.: A guest cannot start a thread. They can respond to an established thread, but cannot originate one. Vince Wilding (An anagram of "Wincing Devil") |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:05 PM (#695191) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Nigel Parsons Nice try, but often guests are searching for songs. They can only do this by starting a thread, if they can't find it in the DT. (whether they understandour protocols or not). They are then unable to search through a thread and PM someone who appears knowledgable, (No PM facility) So this "Club" which I have found extremely useful, and to which I try and give something back, becomes a somewhat closed community. I can see the point, but I can't agree with it. Nothing personal, Guest postings do need regulating, but it is hard to see how. |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:09 PM (#695193) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: toadfrog I propose we hunt them down, and cut out their gizzards! |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:20 PM (#695202) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: SeanM This is something that has been cited on many occasions. The problem (as mostly noted above) is that by doing so you severely limit the usefulness of the Forum as a resource. A large number of us on the 'cat got our start through posting 'guest' questions, getting answered, and then joining in on conversations from there. It doesn't matter that the only thing that is required is carrying a cookie in the memory of the computer, and giving Max fairly limited personal info. A lot of people either don't believe any level of assurance about that you give them, cannot accept cookies, or otherwise are unable to be members. Personally, I haven't seen one of the troll threads lately. I've learned to identify where the fuckwits hang out, and don't feed them. Given my druthers, their postings would be prosecuted as what they usually are - verbal assault or hate crimes. Let them rot in prison as a 'consequence' for their idiocy. Unfortunately, that's just really not an option. M |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:25 PM (#695208) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: M.Ted The problem really is that many, if not most, of the "trolling" GUESTS seem to be members, posting sans cookie--a troll who just dropped in wouldn't be able to fan a long-smoldering fire as well as the "GUESTS" seem to--of course, as has been pointed out many times, this wouldn't work if it weren't for the fact that there are so many who eagerly jump in to any can of worms tossed into the swamp--it ain't called "Mudcat" for nothin'!! |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:39 PM (#695228) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,.gargoyle The "lifeguards" are here - their seats are up high.... out of the pool, and they go un-noticed except by the troubled in need of assistance and the bullies who are sent up to the deck for a time-out.
The truly "trollish" are threashed out with the chaff. The MudCat is a safe haven on the net.
Nothing is permited that is not within the perameters set by the governing bodies. (Oh it may be posted - for a brief while - but the truly offensive are pulled)
Enjoy.... the MC is a safe-play-ground.
I've had perhaps, two of my posts pulled. Interesting.... concept A mirrored site - "the UnCensored mudcat" a collection of cached pages .... only the comments that were expunged from the official record are posted. Easy, yes. Copyright infringment, yes. But which is the pot and which is the kettle?
Thanks for letting me hang around
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21 Apr 02 - 09:39 PM (#695229) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST Mudcat purports to be "a magazine dedicated to blues and folk music." I read blues (Living Blues) and folk music (Sing Out, fRoots, Dirty Linen) magazines and none of them would permit the garbage that is posted on Mudcat with great regularity. |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:43 PM (#695233) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: 53 Seems like to me that things have settled down quite a bit. I'm glad. Bob |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:47 PM (#695236) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,Owain Though not a member(yet) I've started a couple of threads and responded to quite a few. Perhaps having a separate 'members only' forum? Would be easy enough to do I'd imagine. |
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21 Apr 02 - 09:50 PM (#695240) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: DougR Toad: trolls got gizzards? DougR |
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21 Apr 02 - 10:30 PM (#695278) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST I think there should be a members only forum, for those who are here for their "community" more than music discussion. Let them have their safe little community, and let the rest of us have free music discussions without the crap. |
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21 Apr 02 - 11:23 PM (#695308) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Troll GUEST; if you object to the "garbage that is posted on Mudcat with great regularity", why are you here? troll |
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21 Apr 02 - 11:31 PM (#695314) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: khandu Max said he will handle the problems. I look forward to seeing his decisions. I am certain they will be equitable. Till then, I attempt to ignore the jerks. khandu |
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22 Apr 02 - 02:53 AM (#695377) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Doug Chadwick Stopping guests from originating threads would not solve the problem. In Prime Minister's Question Time, the first questions are mainly mundane requests for diary events – it's the supplementary question that goes for the jugular. Trolls could simply invade an existing thread with a completely unrelated topic and, like a cuckoo, throw the original subject out of the nest. Doug C |
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22 Apr 02 - 04:42 AM (#695397) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,greg stephens the obvious fault with this proposal is the fact that i am posting as a guest right now. i've just reset my cookie according to the instructions but the mudcat computer still thinks i'm a guest.believe me, i'm a member. |
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22 Apr 02 - 05:58 AM (#695414) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST Currently logged stats: words letters lines words per line actions nick changes topic changes mode changes bans kicks joins smileys questions most used words random quote Bans are added to the bot's internal ban list (also called the enforced or permanent ban list) using the .+ban command. They may also be added automatically by the bot (e.g. in response to a flood) or by a Tcl script. Internal bans can either be global (they apply to all channels the bot is on) or channel-specific. A ban may be permanent or expire automatically after a set amount of time, and it may optionally be 'sticky' |
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22 Apr 02 - 06:09 AM (#695417) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: greg stephens Sometimes I realise just how out of touch I am. I have read the last message twice and I haven't a clue what it means. |
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22 Apr 02 - 07:22 AM (#695438) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: McGrath of Harlow It's got a certain mad internal imagery though, hasn't it?:
Bans are added to the bot's internal ban list... After a while there's a certain pleasure to be taken in the spiralling illogic of some of these navel studying threads. I mean especially the people who persistently crop up complaining about threads that aren't about music, when they clearly spend a lot of their time reading and contributing to these threads.
My own view is that I wish it was not possible to post as GUEST without a pseudonym or number, however temporary. This wouldn't interfere with anyone's wish to be someone else or a faceless puzzle or whatever turns them on, and would make it easier for the rest of us at times. But since it hasn't happened I imagine there's some difficulty in incorporating that minimal requirement.
They come and they go, and it's not worth getting in a state about it. I suspect that the number of people who make life unpleasant for us at any time is pretty small, maybe only one or two. Sooner or later they get bored with boring.
Like troublesome insects, the way to keep them buzzing around is to try to swat them. (And an insecticide would probably end up killing the ladybirds and butterflies as well.) |
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22 Apr 02 - 07:41 AM (#695449) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Troll The easiest way to deal with them is to laugh at them. The one thing they can't stand is not to be taken seriously and/or not to start an argument. Just laugh at them. troll |
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22 Apr 02 - 07:59 AM (#695457) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: McGrath of Harlow Except that laughter, including mockig laughter, is a form of attention and a reward. So I think they should only be laughed at if they are truly funny, which is rare. (To be distinguished from being ridiculous, which is not.)
Actually I think being truly funny disqualifies someone from being a (lower case) troll; there's probably a separate word for it. |
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22 Apr 02 - 08:34 AM (#695482) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,greg stephens Well you may be against derisive laughter, McGrath, but you often seem to fall into the trap of arguing with them, and that really does encourage them. |
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22 Apr 02 - 08:43 AM (#695486) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Nigel Parsons O.k. who's masquerading as Greg Stephens ? Ther're 3 recent messages in this thread, the first one as a guest, saying he's cookieless, the second with cookie, and the third as a guest. What's happening ? |
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22 Apr 02 - 11:25 AM (#695583) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,Free the Drumcree IV (Roger O'K) I posted a contribution on the four-part "Campsite at Drumcree" megathread in which I offered a suggestion which was relevant to this issue, and would have liked to copy it in here as it was quite relevant to this discussion. In it I explained inter alia why I am still signing in as a guest But now the search engine is no longer showing up any of those part-threads, even though it is still showing the original one which gave rise to it. So what's happening, has The Campsite at Drumcree been decommissioned? It would be a pity if it was deleted, because not only was it deliriously funny, it also was arguably more on-topic than the original posting which spawned it. That original posting was by a member who obviously felt very strongly about Drumcree, but it was arguably off topic. Yet as the successor thread developed, a good dozen "Alternative words" (parodies) were generated in direct response to it, and there was quite a lot of other creative wit of interest to musicians. Also I think it is fair to say that the jokey tone in which the thread evolved allowed people who would probably have different perspectives on the politics of Northern Ireland to find some common ground in the humour. So it is hard to draw the borderline between what's appropriate to the Mudcat forum and what isn't, and IMHO the status of the author as a member or not is not a sound criterion for deciding what is admissible. My suggestion, in essence, was to create an area (which I christened the "sandpit") within the Mudcat site where people who just want to play could post what are clearly BS/OT messages. In that way, people who feel that they are part of a community could still exchange views on issues marginal to the main interests of the Mudcat café with other members of that community, without cluttering up the main thread listing. |
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22 Apr 02 - 11:29 AM (#695586) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: greg stephens the bloody computer keeps refusing to recognise me, nigel, i dont know why. I reset my cookie, 5 minutes later i've turned into a guest again. Don't ask me. |
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22 Apr 02 - 11:54 AM (#695601) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,Amy But now the search engine is no longer showing up any of those part-threads, even though it is still showing the original one which gave rise to it. So what's happening, has The Campsite at Drumcree been decommissioned? Huh? Enter 'Drumcree' in the filter and change the time length to 90 days. They're all still there. What are you talking about?
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22 Apr 02 - 11:56 AM (#695605) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Watson I found them too: putting "Drumcree" in the filter, you get: Thread Name Messages Last Message Campsite at Drumcree IV
SONG ADD : The Campsite At Drumcree
Drumcree thread - perpetrator owns up
Thanks Anon Guest in Drumcree Threads!
Campsite at Drumcree III
The Story of Drumcree |
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22 Apr 02 - 11:59 AM (#695609) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Watson ...with apologies for clumsy cut/paste. |
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22 Apr 02 - 12:03 PM (#695612) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Watson No, I withdraw the apologies - some <p> tags appeared that weren't there when I pasted the message in - don't know why! |
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22 Apr 02 - 12:04 PM (#695614) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,Amy Watson, you're quick! |
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22 Apr 02 - 12:10 PM (#695619) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Watson Maybe, but I'll win no prizes for it! |
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22 Apr 02 - 12:16 PM (#695622) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Troll Greg, it is obvious that you have offended your computer. I would strongly suggest that you burn candles and white sage and offer up such prayers as will serve to quiet the ire of your CPU. If these things are not done quickly and with a contrite spirit, you may find yourself unable to log on to the 'Cat at all. It would also be a good idea to try and figure out what offense you committed and be sure to NEVER do it again. Sometimes candy and flowers help too. troll |
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22 Apr 02 - 12:49 PM (#695661) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,Drumcree free bird sings (Roger O'K) Thanks, Amy & Watson. I didn't realise that the two filters were interrelated, and was misled by the fact that, for some reason, Brendy's original thread came up whereas its successors didn't. So now the Drumcree shearwater is free to fly back around the fields of Athenry
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22 Apr 02 - 01:06 PM (#695677) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: DougR Or perhaps, Greg, you could change your brand of deoderant! DougR |
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22 Apr 02 - 01:30 PM (#695713) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Joe Offer Greg, go to the FAQ and read how to clear your browser's cache. That may do the trick for you. I came back from vacation and got all concerned because my edit buttons were gone, and I got a "you don't belong here" message when I tried to change a thread name. I sent off a desperate message to Pene Azul. As I've told so many other people so many times, he told me to delete and reset my cookie, and to clear my browser cache. Worked like a charm. -Joe Offer, embarrassed- |
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22 Apr 02 - 03:03 PM (#695800) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Mr Red The best we can do as participants is ignore them If they are able to start threads they will get ever more frustrated or more clever and thus be indistinguishable from the more opinionated/pushy of us - by and large. Buts thats just my opinion (humble as ever). |
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22 Apr 02 - 03:19 PM (#695822) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Sorcha LOL! That is pretty funny, Joe. |
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22 Apr 02 - 04:22 PM (#695874) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: McGrath of Harlow What is trolk ? |
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22 Apr 02 - 04:44 PM (#695894) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Little Hawk The solution is elegantly simple...respond to all troublesome GUESTs, trolls, and members by posting fascinating and totally valueless info, rumour, and hype about William Shatner until they can't either take it any longer and go away...or develop a sense of humour and learn to enjoy themselves in a world of constant variety and unpredictability. Short of that, there is no solution. Live with it! I do and I haven't lost any sleep over it yet. I save my worrying for things that are worth worrying about. - LH |
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22 Apr 02 - 04:49 PM (#695897) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Joe Offer Waitaminit, Little Hawk, I can't stand this Shatner shit either! -Joe Offer- |
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22 Apr 02 - 04:59 PM (#695905) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Sorcha Shatnershit---is that all one word, like Damnyankees? |
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22 Apr 02 - 05:08 PM (#695915) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: artbrooks "Shatnershit" is obviously a word that means exactly the same as "Shatner", so the "Shatner" part is unnecessary and "shit" by itself may be assumed to refer to the entire compound word. |
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22 Apr 02 - 05:12 PM (#695917) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: MMario Or "Shatner" may be used alone euphimistically. |
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22 Apr 02 - 06:02 PM (#695957) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: wysiwyg My proposal is that we make a thread that contains a list of all the subjects that never go away here, never get resolved, and never go forward without getting a bunch of people so upset that they forget that they are first and foremost fellow musicans and human beings. I'd call it the "Shit, Shit, and Same Old Shit" thread. Then whenever a new one of THOSE threads starts, a link to the "Same Old Shit" thread could be provided as an explanation for why the thread is being locked to prevent further posting! Just kidding. ~Susan |
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22 Apr 02 - 06:11 PM (#695968) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Sorcha LOL! Great idea! |
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22 Apr 02 - 06:29 PM (#695974) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: catspaw49 A few of us kicked that idea around a bit awhile back, but Wyzzy, I LOVE your name....or at least "The S.O.S. Thread".......I think it'd be good as a permathread myself with the editor assuring that posts will stay at least two weeks except in cases of direct attacks where the usual procedure is to dump that stuff anyway. At two weeks the editor clears the thread of shinola and it keeps going. Anytime a troller starts up in the usual favorites, someone or one and all link to the SOS thread as means of comment.....and NOT comment on the troll/flame thread. Works for me! And the trolls could yell censorship or whatever, but as long as the info was clearly stated going in, who cares. Others could rant on and on about the troll threads or whatever, and the trolls could rant....but THEIR thread would get no response short of the SOS link.....Be fun to try anyway!! Spaw |
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22 Apr 02 - 06:33 PM (#695980) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: catspaw49 BTW....This wouldn't eliminate the problem but it would be fun! The way to eliminate the unwanted trolls is to ignore them....period. The problem is that this group as a whole just can't seem to do it so we keep looking for more fun and less aggravating ways of handling it. Wincing, btw, your idea obviously doesn't work does it? No Guests=No new questions and Lyr.Req's and all the good stuff most Guests bring....and they often become members! Spaw |
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22 Apr 02 - 06:58 PM (#696002) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Little Hawk The Same Old Shit thread is a wonderful idea! I'm for it 100%. - LH |
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22 Apr 02 - 07:10 PM (#696019) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: artbrooks Perhaps it could be set so that any thread with the word "Shatner" or the expression "what is folk music" would automatically have a link. |
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22 Apr 02 - 09:36 PM (#696130) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Blackcatter Maybe we should prohibit member's postings about trolls/guests instead. Certainly many of these treads could be considered by many as an identical waste of time (Not me, however, I think it's fun seeing all the energy expended on what is, in my mind, a NON-ISSUE). pax yall |
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22 Apr 02 - 10:57 PM (#696177) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Stephen L. Rich Let's try this. Each troll should have at least thirty posts in response to thier threads. the catch is that each thread would contain only one word -- The word "BULLSHATNER" . |
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22 Apr 02 - 11:13 PM (#696185) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: GUEST,.gargoyle I agree Mr. Joe
Two Thirds of the critter member's postings are SOS |
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22 Apr 02 - 11:24 PM (#696191) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: Troll "Shat" is the past tense of "shit" so Shatner would be...what? Help me out guys. My brain is fried. troll |
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23 Apr 02 - 12:45 AM (#696247) Subject: RE: BS: Proposed solution to Guest/Troll problem From: khandu Little Hawk, My hat is lying doffed on the floor, where I took it off to honor you! Yes! Shatner is the answer, as always!! It was right here in front of our faces all the time, yet we did not see it, until you, the Seer of Seers, saw it! Yes! Shatner is the answer!!! This should be "hypertyped" in all threads started by the trolls and the pain-in-the-arse guests! Yes! Shatner is the answer!!! khandu |