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BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)

03 May 02 - 04:21 AM (#703464)
Subject: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Gareth

The saga of the Hung Monkey Continues !!!!!

I repruduce for those who may not suscrib a copy of the "Annova" bulitine on the election of a Mayor for Hartlepool.

"A "monkey" has been elected Mayor of Hartlepool.

The town, famous for once hanging a monkey on suspicion of spying, saw Stuart Drummond, also known as H'Angus the Monkey, storm to victory in the race for Mayor.

H'Angus is better known for his outrageous antics acting as mascot for Hartlepool United Football Club.

Mr Drummond's platform included free bananas to schoolchildren, as he beat the Labour candidate by 603 votes in the second round.

However, his pitch-side persona has courted controversy which has resulted in him being ejected from two away grounds - once for allegedly simulating sex with a female steward at Scunthorpe in November 2000, the second for acting improperly with an inflatable doll at Blackpool 12 months ago."

I think ther's a songt here somewhere !!

Gareth


03 May 02 - 05:39 AM (#703490)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: greg stephens

I dont think this thread should be BS. THe continuity of folk culture is a central part of Mudcat thought.What can it be about the collective psyche of one town that makes the inhabitants unable to distinguish between simians and humans? Is this phenomenon unique to Hartlepool? Are there obscure towns in Louisiana where they hang or elect alligators, for example? Or codfish in Newfoundland? Contributions please.


03 May 02 - 06:58 AM (#703512)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: greg stephens

On mature reflection,I realise that it was the unfamiliarity of monkeys that caused the confusion in Hartlepool. Accordingly, I'd like to transpose the alligators and cods in my previous posting.


03 May 02 - 08:49 AM (#703549)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Snuffy

What better way to show that you're totally pissed off with the antics of all the "mainstream" political parties?

Vote for you, pal? Nah, I'd rather vote for a monkey.


03 May 02 - 08:57 AM (#703556)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST,Sarah Cheffins

I think the town ought to put in a bid for the ITV Digital puppet too! At least there is continuity.


03 May 02 - 09:21 AM (#703570)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Paul from Hull

As is Politics, its GOTTA be as B.S. thread....*G*

....& as we say of Hull, you put a red rosette on a Monkey in this Town, & it would get elected.

What that says about John Prescott, I'm not sure!


03 May 02 - 09:34 AM (#703580)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar

I can understand the sentiment which led to the election of the monkey, but the results of the first round of the French presidential election shows the danger of monkeying around with the ballot paper.

Anyone familiar with the Steve Bell cartoons in The Gaurdian newspaper will be familiar with the view that the Americans have already elected a chimp as president. At least the Mayor of Hull has less opportunity to precipitate a major war.

What about a worldwide electoral reform campaign for the mandatory inclusion of a "none of the above" box on all ballot papers in elections for public office?


03 May 02 - 10:02 AM (#703594)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Malcolm Douglas

Yes, I'd like to see that; or the option of voting against a particular candidate without having to vote for one of the others.


03 May 02 - 11:14 AM (#703633)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: DMcG

Interesting idea. Presumably a vote against would count as -1 votes, so we have the prospect of someone being elected on -100 votes as the highest score.

In the real world, that would be pretty humbling, but as for politicians, who knows?


03 May 02 - 11:53 AM (#703659)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Gareth

Easy Enough - Have a space on the ballot Marked "None of the Above" - If on the count the None... Ballot wins you re run the election 4 weeks later - but none of the previous candidates can stand.

If its a mulity seat ward then those candidates falling below the "None... " ballot are eliminated, and a second round follows for the still vacant seat.

Hence
Three candidates to be elected
R Goodway 2000 votes Elected.
None of.... 1800 votes Eliminating level
A Whittall 1700 Votes Elininated
R Davies


03 May 02 - 11:56 AM (#703660)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Gareth

Easy Enough - Have a space on the ballot Marked "None of the Above" - If on the count the None... Ballot wins you re run the election 4 weeks later - but none of the previous candidates can stand.

If its a mulity seat ward then those candidates falling below the "None... " ballot are eliminated, and a second round follows for the still vacant seat.

Hence
Three candidates to be elected
R Goodway 2000 votes Elected.
None of.... 1800 votes Eliminating level
A Whittall 1700 Votes Elininated
R Davies 1600 votes Eliminated
Next time around only 2 candidates to be elected, as R Goodway was elected ahead of the "none..." Vote.

Gareth


03 May 02 - 12:25 PM (#703685)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: okthen

This "monkey" beat Mandelson in the election and receives £50,000 salary.

Some monkey


03 May 02 - 12:34 PM (#703689)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: SINSULL

Mickey Mouse always makes a good showing in the "Write In" Ballot category for presidential elections in the states. He may even have won the last one but with the fraud in Florida, who knows?


03 May 02 - 12:35 PM (#703690)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar

I didn't want to get into the multi-seat version because I thought it would be unfamiliar to most Catters.

Under the STV system which I understand Britain bequeathed to many of its ex-colonies and which we still use in Ireland (though the two major parties routinely resist it in Britain because they think it's too complicated...), it would work as follows.

NOTA would be a virtual candidate, to which you could give your first or any other preference. If "elected", NOTA would block a seat which would remain unfilled for the duration of the parliament. This would at least reduce the size and cost of the parliament. It would also reduce the risk of the balance of power being held by a handful of single-issue or crank candidates for whom people often seem to vote in protest at the conduct of the major parties. If eliminated, its next preferences would be distributed normally.


03 May 02 - 01:43 PM (#703737)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: C-flat

The Monkey vote in Hartlepool clearly shows the lack of enthusiasm for any of the mainstream candidates although the recent success of the football team in making it to the promotion play-offs didn't do the monkey any harm either! Just 10 miles futher South in Middlesbrough (where I'm posting from) another mayoral election result has just been announced. Yet again the winner is standing as an independant in what has always been regarded as a Labour stronghold. Our new Mayor, Ray Mallon, whilst a more credible candidate than a monkey mascot, has been the subject of a major police enquiry (Lancet) regarding his conduct as a senior police officer. All the political parties have been involved in muck slinging and it would seem to have backfired on them as Mr.Mallon balloted almost three times the number of votes than his nearest rival. I'm not entirely sure if the voting public understand that the new role of Mayor is not the figurehead position that we've been used to (certainly a job FOR a monkey) but that it is modelled on the American version (i.e. a REAL job). Ray Mallon is an imposing character, despite the controversy surrounding him, and I dare say has the ability to get the job done, the monkey, on the other hand, is an embarrasment to the voters who presumably thought it didn't matter one way or the other.Sadly, Hartlepool F.C. were knocked out of the play-offs but H'angus may suprise us all and go on to great things. Based on his "free bananas to schools" campaign I wouldn't bet on it!


03 May 02 - 02:06 PM (#703759)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Dave the Gnome

I love it - but on the sad side, as An Pluiméir Ceolmhar (What does that mean? - my French is worse than my English!) has already pointed out tactical or non-existant voting can have some sad results. Look at Burnley where 3 BNP candidates have gained power!

I don't want to throw a damper on H'Angus though - lets hope people see sense next time and all vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party instead. At least they are honest in their naming convention:-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome


03 May 02 - 02:47 PM (#703785)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Dave the Gnome

Or should that be Irish btw? Tell you what just substitute my (any language other than gibberish) is worse than my English!

Cheers

DtG


03 May 02 - 03:14 PM (#703809)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Gareth

No Dave - mistaking Monkey gibberish for French was wot got the Monkey Hung in the first place.

Gareth


03 May 02 - 06:59 PM (#703947)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST,happiness

gareth

here's a vote for your great proposal 'none of the above'

mr happy


03 May 02 - 07:05 PM (#703954)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST,mr happy

oui, oui, oui


03 May 02 - 09:07 PM (#704019)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: michaelr

"None of the above" SHOULD be on the ballot in every election!

In the 60s, the Yippies (Youth International Party - Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin et al) proposed running a pig for president. Same basic idea.

Cheers,
Michael


04 May 02 - 06:25 PM (#704436)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: McGrath of Harlow

Well atr least this should stop New Labour trying to foist this idea of elected mayors on to sceptical voters. (They chucked the idea out in Harlow when there was a referendum on it.)

The interesting thing about Mr Mallon the RoboCop of Middlesborough is that he pleaded guilty to corruption. Then he said he saidnmthis wasn't true, but he just wanted to get the trial out of the way.

But doesn't pleading guilty and then saying he wasn't guilty open him to the charge of perjury? I mean he was lying in court wasn't he, assuming that what he later said was true. I suppose he could beat the rap by saying that what he said after the trial was the lie... Maybe Vin Garbutt can write a song about his new mayor.

I think I'd sooner have the monkey.


04 May 02 - 06:50 PM (#704451)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: McGrath of Harlow

Maybe someone could find out what the new Monkey Mayor of Hartlepool thinks of the Public Entertainment Licence rules that make it illegal to sing in p[ublic?


04 May 02 - 06:56 PM (#704453)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: Gareth

Kevin - with the best of will Mallon did not plead guilty of corruption to a police enquiry, he pleaded guilty to failure to supervise, amd eliminate corruption amongst his subordinate officers - not quite the same thing.

Tho I think this might present problems for him as an executive mayor over the next 5 years.

Gareth


04 May 02 - 08:26 PM (#704484)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: dick greenhaus

WEll, it's not a monkey nor a pig, but in the last Missouri election, the godlike Mr. Ashcroft was soundly beaten by a dead man.


05 May 02 - 05:38 AM (#704632)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: paddymac

I heard an interview with the new Mayor on NPR a day or so ago. He came across well: described himself as "just an ordinary guy" and freely admitted that the idea of running for office first arose "in the pub after a few pints." At least he's honest enough to admit it. The down-side of having been elected is that he has to resign his exalted position as mascot for the local footballers.


05 May 02 - 08:31 AM (#704672)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Mallon did not plead guilty of corruption to a police enquiry, he pleaded guilty to failure to supervise, and eliminate corruption amongst his subordinate officers - not quite the same thing."

Actually I can't see much difference, morally anyway. In fact you can argue that, if someone in charge allows subordinates to get away with criminal behaviour without making real efforts to stop the, they are colluding in it, and carry even more blame. Otherwise anybody with the money can get subordinates to do whatever dirty business they want doing, and escape due punishment. (Which if course they do.)

In any case he still lied in court saying he was guilty if he wasn't. Still I suppose if they treated that as perjury, the whole business of plea bargaining would be put in jeopardy.

As for the monkey, I think he should be required to wear the monkey suit while he does the mayoral duties.After all, people voted for a momnkey, and they are entitled to have a monkey. First thing he should do is set up some kind of town twinning with a town in France, in honour of his predecessor's presumed nationality.


05 May 02 - 03:16 PM (#704829)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: C-flat

In that respect, McGrath of Harlow, the monkey is behaving true to form for most elected politicians.Only after a successful campaign do they reveal themselves for what they really are!


05 May 02 - 06:33 PM (#704942)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: McGrath of Harlow

But normally it's the other way round - during the election they make out they are ordinary human beings. The monkey business gets revealed afterwards.

I'm looking forward to what cartoonist Steve Bell is going to do with this. (Here as an indication of what we might expect is his Dubya)


06 May 02 - 03:52 AM (#705092)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: C-flat

Nice one McGrath, He doesn't pull his punches does he!


06 May 02 - 11:53 AM (#705255)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar

... is Irish for "The Musical Plumber", because I play uilleann pipes. It's a reference to the scene in Flann O'Brien's hilarious "The Poor Mouth" which features Dublin members of the Gaelic League who adopt Irish pen names for their literary endeavours. Every summer they dress up in homespun tweeds and, armed with notebooks and pencils, descend like bird-watchers on the mythical Kerry region of Corca Dorcha to study the language and habits of native speakers of Irish.

It's also a self-deprecating homage to my late parents. My father, who trained as a post and telegraphs instrument technician, used "plumber" as a term of abuse for sloppy tradesmen (I don't think I'll ever be a great piper). My mother, who didn't regard Irish trad as real music, was convinced that the music (i.e. classical) had skipped a generation in our family.

But drifting back on topic, I still think that STV is about the best voting system I've heard of (or, like democracy, the worst apart from all the alternatives). If the French had had it instead of their messy two-round system, they could have given first preferences to the no-hopers (e.g. greens or relatively incorrupt or non-hate-filled candidates) whom they really supported without wasting their votes, because they could still give second or lower preferences to people whom they didn't really like but who were least unacceptable to them.

The French parliamentary elections to be held in June are likely to be really messy and produce perverse results, because they will be turned into some sort of game-theory excercise: people will be afraid that by voting for the candidates whom they really support they will either waste their votes or create an opening for the acolytes of the toxic Le Pen. They will thus be reduced to relying on unreliable opinion polls to guess who among the people whom they least dislike is likely to make it through to the second round.

When the British Labour party thought they could never get a Commons majority again, they flirted with the idea of introducing proportional representation, but now that they, rather than the Conservatives, are beneficiaries of the "first past the post" system, they have come to realise what a great system it is after all. Only the Lib Dems, who see themselves as long-term no-hopers, still support PR.

Incidentally, PR was to be used in Northern Ireland, but it was abandoned very soon after 1920 because it made gerrymandering much more difficult. The quirks of the first-past-the-post system made it easier to ensure a Protestant parliament for a Protestant people - and to generate a seething sense of frustration among Catholics which boiled over in the late 1960s. One of the important elements in the present peace has been the restoration of PR for internal Northern Ireland elections (including, I think, local elections), but it is still not used for the NI seats in Westminster, hence the continuing disparity in the composition of the Norn Iron component of that parliament.


06 May 02 - 04:04 PM (#705422)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: GUEST

The Monkey it appears, has had the last laugh, by outwitting the politicians and saying "I will fight against poverty etc. etc. etc." thus proving that 'you can! talk to the animals' good luck to him, I admire his madness of method.

Joe


06 May 02 - 10:08 PM (#705650)
Subject: RE: BS: The Hartlepool Monkey (Continued)
From: McGrath of Harlow

When will we get a chance to vote for a folksinging horse?