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08 May 02 - 11:17 AM (#706698) Subject: Argentina - staying alive From: McGrath of Harlow Thius is a part two for BS: Still alive in Argentina , which was getting too long.
Here vare a couple of "new readers start here" posts (for people who couldn't open up the thread as it got longer.)
From: Escamillo
12 days went on, this is just to report that this is worsening day by day. Legal actions against Argentina started to show up in Washington DC, and the IMF presses for an immediate derogation of the Bankrupcy Law which prevents foreign creditors to seize the assets of debtor local companies. Everything signals that large capitals are pushing to force the sale of all Argentinean companies and resources for a vile price, and this is not geopolitics, it's just plain robbery.
In fact, the dilemma has no solution. A company which ought 1 million dollars to its suppliers abroad, now owes 3.3 million and raising. If the internal prices accompanied the raise, in a genuine inflation process, it would be possible for them to gather the 3.3 millions, but the problem is that there are no new emissions, salaries are frozen, and the circulating money is locked at the banks and being lent to a broken government at annual rates of 100%
Today the Bank of Nova Scotia (under a 30 day suspension) accepted deposits from Otamendi Hospital to pay salaries, but then refused to pay to the employees, argueing that the bank is suspended and there is no obligation to pay. However they claim to those employees to cancel their credit card obligations, bringing money from elsewhere !The employer argues that they have paid the salaries on time, and everybody has to go to work. Moreover, those employees had been compulsively bankerized, and it was the employer who had chosen the Scotia for all of them. WE'VE JUST REACHED DELIRIUM TREMENS. Canadian friends, please don't feel attacked at all, it could have been any other bank.
The IMF is "preparing" a new, viable plan for Argentina. S.O.S.
On the other hand, steel industries reached 100% production capacity, oil exports are raising, cereals started to move, and many small manufacturers started production at the ruins of their facilities. Rich countries threatened to boicot Argentine products, but there has to be some market out there.
Politicians, banks and corporations have decided to kill the hen of the golden eggs and bring their own. They don't know that there is no replacement.
Un abrazo - Andrés (applying for a place at the NYCFTTS)
Subject: RE: BS: Still alive in Argentina
Looking for stuff made in Argentna is good, but I have a feeeling, in most of the USA, it would difficult to find much. We could also be contacting our representatives in Congress, Parliament, etc. if it would do any good. Sometimes it feels like pissing in the wind...sorry, Andres, I am more hopeful than that.
Maybe we should start a bumper sticker campaign...some short phrase about Argentina which catches a person's eye and makes them aware of the situation? This needs some kind of grassroots movement...let's think about this and see what our creativity can come up with, eh?
Andres, I know you don't want to leave and it owuld definitely be Argentina's loss if you did, but please know, you, Graciela, and your sons, pets, etc. are always welcome in our home.
Un abrazo,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Andres told us about Argentine guitars on another thread, and that's one thing, where we could maybe urge music shops to look into the possibility of their stocking them. They sound as if they are bargains too, so we win both ways.
And there's some great Argentine music to try to get hold of and buy and play and give as presents. If there are any banks in our countries which are actually trying to play fair by the people of Argentina, that would be good to know as well.
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08 May 02 - 11:39 AM (#706716) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: katlaughing Thanks! My thoughts exactly, I darn near started a thread with the exact same postings. Great minds...etc.:-) |
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08 May 02 - 11:43 PM (#707163) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Today (YES,SIR, THEY DID IT!) government announced the implementation, very soon, of a series of federal bonds in dollars, for the year 2012, guaranteed by the remainings of the Argentina Republic, to be accepted VOLUNTARILY by every company or person, as a means of recovery of their savings, salaries or funds "at sight" now paralyzed at the banks. Here "voluntarily" means "you'd rather take it". I can't, because the money locked in my mandatory savings account is just what I need to maintain the house. I'm NO investor. Millions of people are neither investors. If we don't move fast, our forced "savings" will disappear too. (For anybody who tunes late, payments in cash are prohibited for our production, service or commerce, everybody receives checks and becomes tutored by a bank) Any sincere action would be great, but don't beleive that Argentina is an innocent victim. In fact it is victim of its own corruption, and that corruption is the solid base on which bankers, corporations and politicians local and foreign, have built the machinery of the Robbery of the Millenium. Now they come for the territory, for the resources, for the best lands in the world (already selling like cake). Indeed we would be grateful for any action to reveal to the world that the people of Argentina (not its government) does not deserve what is happening here. Un abrazo - Andrés
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09 May 02 - 12:26 AM (#707193) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Little Hawk People all over the world do not deserve what their governments are doing to them. The governments are not serving the people, they are serving the VERY FEW who have ALMOST ALL the money. There should be a world revolution, not just one in this country or that one. Alas, revolutions are usually soon taken over by the same sort of scoundrels who cause them to be necessary in the first place. Libertad, Fraternitad, Egalidad! Without equality there will never be peace. While there is poverty alongside immeasurable wealth and corruption there will never be peace. - LH |
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09 May 02 - 03:59 AM (#707250) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Bert Methinks that LH is just a teeny bit Bolshie. I KNEW I liked him. Escamillo old friend, I'm out of work so I can't help much financially at the moment, but know that my thoughts are with you, and if you should ever get over here we'd find food and bed for you. Un Abrazo Bert. |
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09 May 02 - 04:56 AM (#707256) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: allie kiwi We are starting to see more Argentine wines here in new Zealand, and are attempting to get Yerba Maté imported. hopefully that will help a little. Allie |
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09 May 02 - 05:29 AM (#707263) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Bert, soon you will have motivations to like us all ! No please don't think in economical contributions, just consider Argentina's products if you can choose. A good idea would be: if your bank is CitiBank, Nova Scotia, Bank of Boston, Bank of America, HSBC, Bilbao Vizcaya, Nationale de Paris, Nazionale del Lavoro, or anyone which has Argentina branches, send them a message or leave a note at the counters: FREE ARGENTINA'S PEOPLE FUNDS, or something like that. And be prepared for a long explanation on how they lost billions and what a benefit is for us that they keep our money locked and do not close. Beware of the import/export thieves: FOB price for Yerba Mate is 0.80 to 1.50 dollars/kg, excellent wines 2 to 3 dollars/bottle, first quality tea 0.50 for 50 bags, wool sweater 7.00, short leather coat 50.00, long for ladies 80.00.. (I think I'll switch from singing to hawking) Un abrazo - Andrés
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09 May 02 - 07:04 AM (#707286) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Micca Andres, Just wanted to sy i am thinking of you, and am drinking Argentinian wines too!!( I like them) and have been for several years too, anything we can do? Micca |
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09 May 02 - 08:58 PM (#707788) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: hesperis Man, if I had any money myself, I know where I'd be going... not that it'd be much of a help. |
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10 May 02 - 06:42 AM (#708011) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo And if I had any money myself, would buy LANDS, the most fertile and easy to access in the world. Unfortunately large foreign capitals are already aware of this, and started to buy some, trying to hide the details of transactions. The Big Sale will take place in a few weeks, when the Law Against Economic Crime has been derogated under the pressure of the IMF. This time, the supposed (?) new loan from the IMF will be remembered as the most expensive for a nation in the whole History. On the other hand, yes, consumption of Argentine products when they fit your needs and convenience, is a great help. We ourselves have massively switched to local products (a highly positive attitude, though too late). Un abrazo - Andrés |
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10 May 02 - 07:27 AM (#708030) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: McGrath of Harlow The term "Bank Robbery" takes on a whole different meaning...Or rather it's a very old meaning indeed, but a lot less well disguised than it normally is.
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11 May 02 - 05:07 AM (#708720) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: GUEST I like the "patchwork quilt" visualization of the Argicultural Land of Argentina becoming owned by 110 countries. With such a broad base, and such divergent ownership, economic stability will follow. This is a good solution. |
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11 May 02 - 05:29 AM (#708724) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Guest, I like the visualization of your ass becoming owned by a gang of heavyweight fighters, Tyson's style. Ah, and I hope they will pay you 20 dollars each ! |
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23 May 02 - 08:02 PM (#716485) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: katlaughing Andres, mi amigo...just wondering how you are doing and Rogelio wanted me to make sure you knew about this website: www.caracasnews.com. I notice today's news includes a feature story about thousands taking to the street in protest in Argentina. There is also an ad with a link to a company which specialises in helping people immigrate to Canada. I haven't read it, but he said there has been some lessening of restrictions. Love to you and your family, Katalina & Rogelio:-) |
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23 May 02 - 08:32 PM (#716497) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Little Hawk LOL! Good response to GUEST, Andres... Isn't it ironical that while your banks are charging 100% annual interest to your bankrupt government, which has little or no money...my Canadian bank cannot offer me better than 1.25% annual interest on a $10,000 term deposit! Yes, that's 1 and 1/4 of a percent annual interest = $125 (what a joke). I remember when annual interest was more like 7.5% or better than that, but times have changed. The interest you get from a bank in Canada now for saving your money is so tiny that it's absolutely ludicrous. I get the impression they don't particularly want people to save any money...just to borrow it! And then to spend it right away buying more things they don't need...it's good for the economy. Banks in Canada are richer than they have ever been...probably mainly as a result of robbing the 3rd World blind. The general public in Canada is poorer for it, and our cities are falling apart due to lack of social funding. Toronto used to be a clean city with virtually no homeless. Now it is a mess, and there are so many homeless that the shelters cannot handle them. Downtown is full of beggars, people are camping out all year in ravines, even in the winter, and some of them are dying there. Free market democracy is a lie. A big one. The spiritual brothers of Al Capone are busy spreading it far and wide, and fixing elections while they are at it. - LH |
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24 May 02 - 03:23 AM (#716585) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Thanks Katalina for the link, it's very interesting that people out there can realize the deepness of this disaster. For anyone not well informed on what Argentina was like, before the Big Robbery, I would recall that poor people in this country did never know HUNGER, except in some very rare situations and remote regions, but today the hungry people rides with you in the subway, faint in the long lines at the banks, crowd the charity dining rooms. What ashames me most is, that at the same time the luxury of the government officers has not been cut at all, the 140 billion dollars of Argentineans in USA and Europe are well invested, our soccer team travels to the most expensive country in the world, and the warship Libertad departs for a world-wide instruction trip carrying proudly the Argentina flag to many ports of the world. Unemployment is officialy rated 20% but widely admitted in 30%, plus another 20 or 30% underemployment. Problem is that many people have abandoned the search for a job, and then fell out of the statistics. The supposed loan from the IMF is 8 billion, of which 6 billions will be immediately destined to pay overdue interests of previous loans, and 2 billion fresh. Considering that only in 2001, 60 billion of private deposits run out of Argentina with the complicity of all banks, those 2 billions are a water drop in the ocean. Apparently we are obeying the IMF and dropping our last defenses (while US and Europe reinforce theirs - see the recent Farm Bill) just for 2 billion dollars and vague promises of good business. What business ? Import computers and export raw meat ? There's something very odd: it is generally considered here that the USA is willing to deprive European corporations from their businesses in Argentina, in a kind of revenge for that invasion of European capitals in the 90's which displaced US capitals from almost all the large and abusive appropiation of oil, energy, communications, routes, railroads which were privatized in that decade. "So," our geniuses said, "Europeans will support us against the pressure of the IMF, which is governed by the US, right ? " - WRONG. Duhalde came back from Europe bearing the pressure of all European governments who promised to allow important business with Argentinean products ONLY after Argentina reaches an agreement with the IMF (which is not fully driven by the US, by the way). And what did they expect ?? That Europe would jeopardize their tight relations with USA just for some beans disputed far in the South ?? Our governors (?) are skilled thieves for their own people, but naive beginners when confronted to the owners of the world. LH, sorry to hear that about Toronto, a city I've never visited but impressed me so well in every thing I saw or read. Buenos Aires still maintains some dignity but the situation is rapidly deteriorating. Fortunately, safety is still acceptable, and tourists invade the streets buying everything. The Scotia Bank is closed, is on sale, money in open accounts are frozen as well as savings accounts, and 1,800 employees are seeing the end of their jobs soon. No funds will come from Canada. The French Credit Agricole put other three banks on sale, in this case (why?) the National Bank of Argentina took control and reopened the three banks in one week. People keep closing accounts in foreign banks and opening new accounts in local state banks, because the states are supposed to stay in the country and never bankrupt (ha!) Soon there will be no foreign banks here. In fact, with all those abusive laws in the 90's, the banking business was brilliant in Argentina for 10 years, and we have had more banks than bakeries. One small chapter appart for Kat: this wonderful friend has called me two times just to know how we were doing, it was a pleasure to talk to her and I wanted to publicly say THANKS, KATALINA. Re my reply to Guest: sorry for the obscenity, but that was good ! ha! I was wandering wheather nobody was going to laugh, not even the Guest! :)) Un abrazo - Andrés
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24 May 02 - 04:08 AM (#716592) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: McGrath of Harlow I laughed. Our friend was asking for something like that. |
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24 May 02 - 04:16 AM (#716595) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Fossil I'm following your thread with interest, mi amigo, and wish you well, along with my other friends in the region. But please exempt the "warship Libertad" from your strictures on Government expenditure. I've been aboard her in Europe: she carries no guns, but is a sail training vessel and a very beautiful and historic one, too. Keeping her at sea with the other "tall ships" is by far the best thing to do with her, and probably much less expensive in the long run than tying her up to a wharf somewhere and letting her rot. In fact, the donations made by visitors in other parts of the world probably cover most of her running costs and the smartness and efficiency of her crew give (or gave me, last year) a very favourable impression of Argentina. The rest of your analysis of the economic theft that's going on in your country, I fully agree with. Good luck! |
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24 May 02 - 11:16 AM (#716762) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Little Hawk Andres - Toronto is still pretty safe, although there are a lot more cars broken into lately...and more apartment break-ins too. Whenever poverty rises, so does crime. The streets are still safe...that is my impression. There is such a long tradition of social stability and domestic peacefullness in Canada that it is not likely to change rapidly. What happened in the last 10 years is that the provincial governments in Canada (particularly in Ontario) got the smart idea of privatizing all kinds of government-funded social programs AND transferring the load of many others from the PROVINCE TO THE LOCAL CITIES AND TOWNS!!! This way, the glorious provincial government was able to get money, reduce its debt (at the expense of the towns and cities), and make lucrative payoffs to its rich friends in the business community (I'm sure with some private deals on the side...mutually beneficial). In other words, they made things LOOK BETTER ON PAPER while actually BEING WORSE IN REALITY. Call it tunnel vision...you only look at one thing and ignore all the rest, while the ship sinks under your feet. They were also able to REDUCE TAXES (their big campaign promise which got them the vote of the very foolish public)...yeah...they reduced the taxes very slightly, while ROBBING us all bigtime! Our municipalities are out of money, our roads, water systems, hospitals, and schools are in the worst shape in living memory, and the whole social fabric is deteriorating visibly year by year. This, by the way, is part of the ongoing process of making Canada more similar to the USA with every passing day... Everyone wonders how much longer our government-funded medical coverage will last in this country? It is the one thing they have not yet dared to dismantle, although they are chipping away at it in little bits. Mike Harris, the ex-premier called his conservative program the "common-sense revolution", and he fooled a lot of people. He is the Margaret Thatcher of Canada, has been rich all his life, and has apparently no idea of what he has done to ordinary people and to their communities. He cannot understand why the poor don't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", not realizing, perhaps, that they HAVE NO BOOTS in the first place!...nor any legal way of getting them. - LH |
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25 May 02 - 03:23 AM (#717172) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Fossil, I agree that the warship "Libertad" from the Navy School is still one of the few honorable faces of the Argentine Republic. After all, the costs of that trip must be much less than the maintenance costs of a few modern missilistic warships operating in our Navy. Certainly there are so many expenditures to be cut here, that we can't beleive that we are accepting insuline donations from charity organizations in Spain, for example, or that a lawyer's association in Miami is organizing a campaign to consider 100,000 Argentinean illegal immigrants as "refugees". Today President(?) Duhalde threatened to resign if not given what he calls the necessary "support" from the Congress and province governors, to fulfill all the IMF requirements. Those requirements include many healthy decisions (zero deficit, expenditures cuts, transparency, etc.) which they should have imposed many decades before. Unfortunately they also include irrational and anti-constitutional and anti-ethical measures: violate the rights of properties of citizens even in the poorest levels, break the contracts, drop the laws which protect people against banker's abuse and economic crime, free large capitals from any responsibility past or future, fire half a million employees (for a population of 36 million) without an employment program, and leave the national currency to float its value against foreign currencies in a situation of absolute distrust, after people have seen how their deposits disappeared in the banks' black hole. LH, that's again the paradigm of modern capitalist governments: decentralize and delegate responsibilities, privatize (favouring the friends) and accomodate the laws fitting the needs of the large capital, and at the same favor the concentration of wealth in private groups. They don't understand why people can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps because they see people as a bunch of lazy ignorants who can't see the great horizons that they are signaling. When ex-minister Cavallo announced the establishment of the "corral" for everybody's funds, he said that "this is for the protection of the depositors", ignoring that 80% of people did not have even a single savings account (1.00 % annual interest rate, 240.00 dollars fixed annual expenses) and that his new regulation included the prohibition of cash collections. Socialist Lula in Brazil is favorite for the next elections. Socialist Zamora in Argentina goes first by far in every poll. Pseudo-socialist Chavez in Venezuela overcame a coup which had been immediately celebrated by the IMF. Rumors of a military coup in Argentina are growing day by day, and we know that neither the US, Europe nor the IMF will say a word to defend democracy. At the same time, this democracy is unsustainable. The future of Latin America looks complicated. Un abrazo - Andrés
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25 May 02 - 11:37 AM (#717206) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: catspaw49 Ah Andres...I keep reading these threads and trying to think of things to say.........I am just glad to keep hearing from you and I want you to know that I'm holding good thoughts and taking a lot of personal encouragement just thinking of what you are going through. You're a fine man and I wish I could do or say more to encourage you. Your attitude and courage in these times is more than admirable! BTW, I've written your son a couple of times with no responce so I don't know whether or not he received the letters, but I hope he has. I wasn't expecting a response or anything, just wanted to let you know and hope he has gotten them and is doing okay. I'll write agin next week. My Very Best......Pat |
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25 May 02 - 01:33 PM (#717263) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: McGrath of Harlow I imagine if an Argentine version of a moderate reformist like Roosevelt were to come to power with plans for an Argentine New Deal, he'd be denounced in Washington as a Communist, and part of the axis of evil.
I was reading in the paper the other day about kids in Argentina going hungry, and no beef on the table. It takes a remarkable organising genius to arrive at a situation like that in Argentina.
Nothing much we can do from out that I can see. If you can think of anything, let us know. Are there things we could be lobbying for or against in relation to our governments etc? |
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26 May 02 - 11:12 PM (#717812) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Thanks again for your concern, friends. I think that the most positive attitude that US and European people can do for Argentina and other troubled countries, is just to defend their own rights as taxpayers, because each dollar stolen in an international operation through the IMF or the World Bank, and even through private banks, is a dollar taken from the US and European workers and honest companies, transferring wealth from the large excess product of their work to the pockets of international large capitals. Then each dollar generates another dollar that is stolen directly from poor countries' work, but remember that the first dollar was yours. Was that excess put to work in peaceful projects, for the benefit of their own workers, the entire world would be better. Things not affordable or not manageable by poor countries, like advanced technology, accessible information, good education, culture and arts, would be less and less expensive as a result of the law of supply and demand, and would reach all people in the world much more easily. The other two main issues (may be there are many "main" issues) are 1) defend PEACE by all means. There's no conflict that can't be resolved by an adequate amount of money, and there are enormous amounts of money generating conflicts because their owners don't know how to multiply them even more. And 2) Defend the ENVIRONMENT. Large capitals will NOT respect the Earth, since they don't respect their own mothers. (And defend the arts, too! What would be the world like, without musicians, actors, writers?) Yes McGrath, it's incredible that kids are hungry in the land of food. In 1910, when the multitude of luxury palaces were built in Buenos Aires and other cities, those which are said to resemble the landscape of Paris, Argentina was rated 8th among the richest countries of the world. The decay started some years past the end of WWII, when the strong populist leadership of Perón degraded, and a long series of military governemnts associated with large foreign capitals took the reins. Thanks Spaw for writing to Mariano, I'll recall to that SOB (son of a bigot) to reply his correspondence. He's not much better to reply to us. At least we know he is OK, working well as a teacher, and learning something too. Last news: President(?) Duhalde is now in a meeting with the province governors (his last friends) where he will explain the alternatives of strict fulfillment of the IMF requirements (and supposed new loans) or his own resignment. We expect the resignment of them all, no loans, and the foundation of a new republic. Colombians bet for democracy again. There's always someone who is worse than we are. Our thoughts are with those brothers. Un abrazo - Andrés
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27 May 02 - 12:11 AM (#717828) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: katlaughing Andres, your words are so powerful and you explain the situation and what led to it, so well, you should be published in all of the major papers of the world. I know the media is controlled by the money people, at least the major media, but I still believe YOUR voice, so eloquent, rational, and knowledgable should be heard everywhere. I am moved to tears, I rise in anger, I dare to hope when I read your words and I am honoured by your friendship and your sharing with us. Thank you, it was wonderful to speak with you. Rogelio and I will both call again, sometime, soon. It is a small thing to do, about the only thing I can think of to offer. I call not only to visit with a dear friend and to offer verbal support, but also to assuage my own feeling of helplessness about this horrible situation which grips your dear country. May you find your new democracy and may your country be once again strong and wealthy for all. Blessed Be, Katalina |
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27 May 02 - 01:59 AM (#717859) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Ha ! Katalina, you are so gentle ! By the way, remember that this is a public site, and everything we say could in fact be published anywhere !. Once I searched my own name in Google, just for curiosity, and found many references. One was a namesake, who is a science fiction writer (and I still don't know wheather he is some relative) and the others were my small articles and comments published in a choral music forum in Spanish, and lift by a newsletter of general interest, who took them literally. Thanks God I was not ranting against the military! Un abrazo - Andrés |
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29 May 02 - 06:46 AM (#719350) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Talking about major publications, you may find many interesting news in this article: http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/562.cfm You may also start a search in Google for the words "corralito" and "banks" , i.e corralito banks, without the quotes. Un abrazo - Andrés (caught in the corral, but not operated on, yet) |
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30 May 02 - 12:55 AM (#719957) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: GUEST,.gargoyle Meow-sa,(oh giggle-kitty let me call you that) as usual, your passions, your passin's, your passions!
Sincerely, |
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30 May 02 - 01:01 AM (#719960) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: GUEST My son wants to go. Should he now? http://www.umabroad.umn.edu/AMERICAS/venezuela1.html |
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30 May 02 - 06:50 AM (#720076) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Guest, I could only make a few comments, because I live in Argentina (the subject of this thread is Argentina), but since I lived in Venezuela for five years, and have friends there, I would have some things to say: 1) Venezuela is really beautiful, the people is generous and friendly, and surely your son will have a great time. 2) Mérida is in the Andes area, it is a mountain zone and pretty cold in winter (not even similar to Minnessota, but not tropical). The Caribbean beaches are very far from there, some 400 miles 3) Safety is questionable in all Venezuela, especially now, but considering that your son will be under supervision of that institution VENUSA, it is reasonable to think the he will not run any risk. If the institution is not closely involved, beware. Mérida and other cities far from Caracas are much safer than the capital. Caracas is now dangerous. 4) Water in Venezuela is good for bathing, cooling engines and research on hydrogen production. Beverages are beer, ron (rhum), whisky, gin, wine, etc. Your son has to be prepared to say no. Drugs are readily available in big cities (as in any US or Latin Ameriaa cities) but much less in smaller cities like Mérida. Un abrazo - Andrés (in Buenos Aires)
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03 Jun 02 - 03:03 AM (#722005) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: katlaughing Andres, NPR did an interesting piece, on the Sunday Weekend Edition show at www.npr.org. You can listen to it by clicking here on the direct real player link. It was on fine wine of Argentina and how the winerys are doing their best to resist lowering their prices and to keep from getting swept up in the whole loss of money scheme. They've done some really inventive things to turn tehir businesses around and to keep them going. I thought you might be interested in hearing it. All the best, my friend, katalina |
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03 Jun 02 - 03:30 AM (#722008) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Thanks a lot, Kat, but I can't hear it. Real Player tells me that there has been a "general error". May be because I'm at home with a dial-up connection. Tomorrow I'll try at the office where we have a cable modem. Another industry is being re-born, run by its workers: the aluminum film rolls for domestic use. Another one is exporting brooms (!) to Canada, while the INVAP national nuclear company is exporting a complete reactor to Australia (brooms and nuclear reactors, isn't that crazy ?) There are two countries here: one which knows to work and achieve phenomenal results, and one which dedicates the best efforts to steal the product of the other. At least we should agree that we have exceptional professionals in all specialties including robbery. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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03 Jun 02 - 02:38 PM (#722217) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: AliUK Andres, Hola! living down here in Porto Alegre ( Rio Grande do Sul) I have come a bit further closer to a fellow Mudcatter. Anyway, it´s also brought me closer to the situation in Argentina, which I find terrible and humiliating for the ordinary drones out there in the streets. How is this effecting the population outside of Buenos Aires? This whole situation has come about through years of corruption and the power being held in the hands of a tight circle of politicians. What you need is revolution my friend, there is no ´political´ solution to Argentinas problems. Duhalde is taking band aid measures for something that needs surgery. Unfortunately, here in Brazil Lula will never be President, though my vote will be his. |
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03 Jun 02 - 10:55 PM (#722523) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: katlaughing Sorry, Andres. Try this link: http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=06/02/2002&PrgID=10, then scroll down to near the bottom of the list of news items in the center column. It is titled "Argentina Wine" then you can click on it and listen. If that doesn't work, go to www.npr.org, then use the drop-down menu to go to WEEKEND SUNDAY EDITION. When you get there, over on the right hand side, click on latest show and that will take you to the same page as the above link. Brooms and nuclear reactors....strange indeed! AliUK! Nice to see you! kat |
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04 Jun 02 - 01:17 AM (#722577) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Kat, sorry, it seems that my configuration of I.Explorer or Real Player has something to do. Tomorrow I'll ask Andrés Jr. who is much more patient at his age, to fix it. :) Glad to see you Ali, you're right, that's the revolution that Latin America has been expecting for so long, but the probabilities are extremely low. Today anyone who speaks about growing by our own resources is seen as a lunatic, and the only "reasonable" policy seems to be "not falling out of the world, otherwise we'll face the chaos". I wonder how they call PRECISELY THIS PRESENT SITUATION. People are fainting of hunger at schools, thousands eat at the garbage bags left in the street by restaurants, groceries and bakeries. (While we sell nuclear reactors to Australia and the high classes continue draining dollars to US and European banks) WHAT DO WE WAIT ? I can't explain. It is not a matter of the quantity of people exiled, because 1 million of educated and young people have already left. Perhaps it is a matter of some thousands of people killed or dead by hunger. Outside of Buenos Aires, the situation is worse. Regional economies are dead (except those few industries that I mentioned), and the main support of people which is public employment, is going to disappear too, because of the 70% cutoff of provincial budgets to be put in effect next month, as imposed by the IMF too. I know, public employment has always been the basis of corruption, and it is good that it finds an end, but the effect of its termination in a very short term, will be catastrophic. The IMF hates Venezuelan President Chávez. One can see that Chávez is a little unpredictable or even crazy, but the truth is that his government as NEVER asked a cent to the IMF, and this could be very significant. Instead, Argentina senators have treasoned our nation and our whole history derogating the Law against Economic Crime which had compromised the position of many bankers, as imposed by the IMF. Now that the law is dead, and the bankers are happy, Mr.Duhalde is eagerly expecting a new visit of the IMF and a fast agreement for new loans. WAIT and SEE the most hilarious, infamous and humiliating disappointment ! Un abrazo - Andrés
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04 Jun 02 - 08:20 AM (#722709) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Little Hawk The Mafia hates people who don't buy into its "protection" system too....I wonder if anyone has hired them yet to kill Senor Chavez, so the IMF can make loans to Venezuela? Not to mention Cuba... - LH |
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04 Jun 02 - 11:39 AM (#722815) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: AliUK Latin America is so f*cked up because of the insistance of the ruling classes to align themmselves with the fat cats of the corporate U.S , and the inherent inability of the ruling classes to see beyond the end of their bank accounts that until there is some concerted kind of revolution ( though I suggest a quiet one rather than a bloody one) things will never change down here. I must say that in the ten years that I have lived here in Brazil, I have seen a change for the better and a lot of the politicians here do seem to be getting some kind of social conscience ( despite the fact of the seemingly insurmountable problems, the last 8 years here in Brazil have seen the instigation of many social reforms that the people have benefitted from). Still, there are more problems than viable solutions, but I put that down to the amount of problems that exist, it will take a long while to chip them down into a reasonable amount. Kat, hi back at ya...I have been around. Though not asmuch as I would like....PM me some time. |
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05 Jun 02 - 04:02 AM (#723369) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Funny tragi-comic anecdote: Today Uruguay President Batlle visited Buenos Aires to apologize for his comments to Bloomberg TV: "Don't compare Uruguay to Argentina. Argentineans are a gang of thieves, from the first to the last. And if they have a problem with the IMF, it is THEIR problem, after all, if a grant a loan to you, I'll impose my conditions. Duhalde has no power and doesn't know where to go." He says that he was "betrayed" by the journalists who kept the cameras and mics open in a private conversation (!) But most funny is the result of a poll made by one of the main Argentina newspapers: "Do you think that Mr.Battle is right when judging Argentineans so derogatingly ?" the results show 49% AGREE, 40% DON'T AGREE, 11% do not reply. Ali, perhaps something new is being born in Latin America, and since we already experienced the bloody way, this time it may well be quiet. We need that the US and Europe understand that no business can be made with hungry people governed by gangsters, and take decisions based on their laws and ethic principles, not on corporate conveniences. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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05 Jun 02 - 09:26 PM (#723972) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Steve in Idaho And this from the 05 June Pinkerton Daily Intelligence summary ARGENTINA (Moderate Risk) – Some Progress But Situation Remains Volatile President Duhalde has made over the past week considerable progress toward meeting International Monetary Fund (IMF) conditions for negotiating a new economic assistance agreement, including the repeal of controversial legislation and the signing of an agreement with the Governor of Buenos Aires province to reduce provincial spending by 50 percent. Similar agreements with other governors are likely to be signed soon. Duhalde is now hopeful that an agreement with the IMF can be signed by the end of the month. PERSPECTIVE: The progress cited above notwithstanding, Duhalde is still a long way from meeting IMF conditions for a new agreement, and the political and social situation remains highly volatile. The economy continues to deteriorate and statistically some 24,000 Argentines fall below the poverty line each day. The country's football-mad public is presently distracted by the ongoing World Cup in Korea, but the down side is that a poor performance by the Argentine national team and elimination from championship contention has in the past led to rioting in the streets and in the current economic and social crisis could set off renewed major rioting and looting, similar to the December rioting that prompted the resignation of former President de la Rua. If and when Argentina does reach a new agreement with the IMF, thereby stabilizing the economic scene, Duhalde and the Peronists may then decide the time is right for calling new national elections. (06/05/02)
Hang in there Bro Steve |
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05 Jun 02 - 11:16 PM (#724031) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Mudlark Gah...reading all this is so sad, so frustrating, and makes me feel so helpless. Please keep writing...at least it helps us to KNOW what is going on... here in US we can be very insular. I will comb Trader Joe's, the local import grocery store, for anything Argentinian...keep informed, keep hoping.... |
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06 Jun 02 - 08:23 AM (#724219) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: AliUK evn though Iknow England will whop the asses off those Argentine Johnnies tomorrow ( famous last words), My thoughts are always with our comrades south of the border. |
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06 Jun 02 - 10:14 PM (#724912) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Ha! At least some motivation for a smile. Against McGrath's opinion, I still think that a good unfair penalty, a goal anullment, and a lot of mocking, could ignite the flame of revolution here in the Pampas. You know, when something goes really wrong, we use to blame the Brits ! :) Un abrazo, best luck - Andrés |
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07 Jun 02 - 09:10 AM (#725157) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Micca Andres, to my complete amazement, one of the UK Tabloids, The Mirror, did a full page article on how bad things are in Argentina on Thursday, it was sympathetic to the people of Argentina, not much detail about why,and in true Mirror style, sceptical abiout the politicians, but at least it was sympathetic, and maybe a few more people in UK are more aware because of it, Thinking of you, Mate, Un Abrazo, Micca |
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07 Jun 02 - 09:16 AM (#725160) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Micca If anyone wants to read the article, try here |
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07 Jun 02 - 09:29 AM (#725176) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: catspaw49 Sorry Andres, I guess it wasn't to be, but it was still a great game to watch. Spaw |
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07 Jun 02 - 02:03 PM (#725377) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Yes, Sir, a great game ! England was evidently superior (though I'm sure they had 15 players in the field and nobody noticed it). Argentina team wasn't so tricky as anticipated by Beckam, put their best efforts and technique but found a team that appearead to be, as I've said, more than 11. England may play a primary role in this World Cup. Congratulations to them all. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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07 Jun 02 - 02:10 PM (#725380) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: AliUK I watched the match with three argentinians at a newspaper office...my picture come out in the paper tomorrow...I am so, so happy. Now for Nigeria then the world * bwahahahahahahahaha* --ahem-- sorry about that Andrés. Um abraco do seu irmão anglo-braileiro. |
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07 Jun 02 - 02:43 PM (#725407) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: McGrath of Harlow Beaing beaten in one match in the qualifying round doesn't put Argentina out, any more than it did the last time they won the World Cup.
The Guardian also ran - its first proper coverage of the Argentine crisis today
"Today, Argentina's football heroes take to the pitch, hot favourites to vanquish their old foes - and even win the World Cup. But back home, there's little else to celebrate. Once a shining star of free-market capitalism, the country is in economic meltdown. So where did it all go wrong?" And click on the link to read the rest of an exelent piece by the paper's economics correspondent. |
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08 Jun 02 - 11:13 PM (#726337) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Excellent coverage by The Guardian. Serious and precise. To one thing I would have an objection: people who bang the fences of the banks are not the "grande dames", they are only mid-class workers and small business people. The high class of Argentina has had already vaporized their funds out of the country some months before the "corralito", or fund freezing, in December. They always have better information than the rest of us. I highly recommend the article mentioned by McGrath. Now, let's drink gallons of "Aquavit" for the next Wednesday against Sweden. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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09 Jun 02 - 02:16 AM (#726373) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: GUEST Gawd!!!! It felt good to kick someone's ass,even if they were third world. Sorry to gloat while you are down Andres, but WE NEEDED THIS VICTORY to reclaim OUR PLACE in History!!! |
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09 Jun 02 - 04:47 AM (#726428) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: C-flat The British press have made very little of the situation in Argentina and I suspect that's probably true across Europe but 90 minutes of football can send shock waves around the world! I'm as passionate an English football fan as you'll meet and went temporarily nuts on Friday, along with the rest, but I wish our press would do more to try and raise the nations conscience levels. I've learnt more in 5 minutes here on this site about Argentina than I would in scouring the press for 5weeks! "Escamillo"(Andres),please keep up the intelligent commentary, you know that there's not a lot we, as individuals, can do but you're in our thoughts. By-the-way, what did you mean by "unfair penalty".......... |
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09 Jun 02 - 07:09 AM (#726458) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: McGrath of Harlow The unfair penalty was Escamillo writing about what he reckoned might fire up the people of Argentine to sort things out back home.
The post came well before the match with England, so it wasn't a comment on the one that decided the match. (Though I imagine that it will have been seen as a dive by a lot of people in Argentina, as it would have been by a lot of people in England if it had been the other way round.)
Linking from football to politics/economics - I was interested watching the match to see at least one Argenntine flag in the crowd with a picture of Che Guevara. |
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09 Jun 02 - 03:11 PM (#726639) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo That's exactly what I meant (with a little humour): something infuriating, not only some hundred billions of bucks stolen from our country, not only the soldout of our laws and constitutional rights, but something outrageous like a penalty not deserved ! :)) By the way, nobody claims about that penalty. If it was a dive, it was not clear. People accepted the superiority of the England team, though "only in this game" and put their hopes in the match against Sweden. I'm glad to see that football at least contributes to call the attention of the world to our troubled country, and to whole regions becoming unstable and next to big problems. A friend of mine is in Japan, probably he was who held that flag with Guevara's face ! Un abrazo - Andrés |
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09 Jun 02 - 04:56 PM (#726712) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: C-flat I'm sorry, my sarcasm wasn't very clear, I knew what Escamillio meant really. If nothing else,it shows the imbalance in reporting what's "newsworthy". Maybe a game of football could spark some positive action in Argentina but it seems almost farcical that people can feel more passionate about football than the prospect of going hungry or losing their life savings to a corrupt government. |
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10 Jun 02 - 12:22 AM (#726873) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Yes, look what happened in Moscow. In fact, sometimes I can find myself willing some reaction of people, but once it happens, and it happens violently, I deeply regret to have taken that position. One killed and 50 injured in Moscow, for a football game, 30 killed and hundreds injured in Argentina in December for a political change, who can say what is worthy and what is not ? I would never want to see one of my sons bleeding in the streets. Is it still possible that we get justice without the blood ? What do you think would be the reaction of people in the US or England (or Italy, Spain..) in front of a slightly similar situation, for example, a general freezing of all people's funds at the banks ? (Consider that the order came from the government at banker's request, and no one single bank made an objection, and all banks continue refusing to pay to the few depositors favored by a legal verdict) I would anticipate something interesting: in 1933, when the US was suffering the consequences of the Great Depression, people did massively run to the banks to withdraw their funds. But nobody protected them. Half the banks went into bankruptcy, and people were somehow compensated up to the amounts of the banks' assets. Argentina has had similar situations many years ago. The US are more respectful of the people's rights, or simply times have changed ?? Un abrazo - Andrés |
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11 Jun 02 - 12:14 AM (#727285) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: GUEST,.gargoyle According to the Financial Times of London, April 2002
ARGENTINA has the cheapest "Big Mac" in the world. It clocks in at .71 cents (US)
Switzerland registers the most expensive at 3.60+
So be thankful and eat a Big Mac.
Sincerely, |
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11 Jun 02 - 05:32 AM (#727377) Subject: RE: BS: Argentina - staying alive From: Escamillo Some economists rank the position of a country in the international market (grossly) by the price of the Big Mac. I beleive it is a good sample because the product is sold in the entire world. However it does not say how much a BigMac costs in hours of labor. Presently, that would be ONE HOUR of an unqualified worker. Sad. Anyway, this demonstrates what I was touting lately: Argentina has the lowest prices in the world for many, many products of the best quality. Think of the finest guitars, furniture, leather goods (shoes, coats, saddles, boots), textiles, wood, food industry, steel goods(!), hotel expenses, domestic travelling, and everything imaginable except electronics because the Chinese have destroyed our small electronics industry. Our national nuclear producer INVAP is now supplying a nuclear reactor for Australia, after winning an international bid in 2001. Fortunately for us, the contract was made at international prices BEFORE the devaluation (ha!). Un abrazo - Andrés
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