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13 Jun 02 - 03:53 AM (#728984) Subject: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo I'm interested in knowing what versions may be running around out there in other languages of what in American English, at any rate, is called "The Itsy Bitsy Spider" (in DT; ignore "college" verses, they have only the tune in common, and in any event it's a rather generic tune). In Esperanto it's "Eta Petro Araneo" (Little Peter Spider) and I'm wondering if other languages give the arachnid a moniker like we do, or leave him/her anonymous like we do. Many thanks, Liland |
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13 Jun 02 - 04:12 AM (#728995) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Genie Liland, I don't know any translations, but there is an "Itsy Bitsy Spider" version of "The Mary Ellen Carter," which is great! I think it's in a thread here or maybe in the DT. Genie |
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29 Jun 02 - 09:00 PM (#739584) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo Well, I finally found a Norwegian version that, sure enough, calls the spider Peter: Lilla Petter Edderkopp (interesting site, BTW, for multilingual children's songs). Since I learned the Esperanto version from a collection published in Denmark, my guess is the Danish may also have "Peter" or "Per" as the spider's name. Or maybe it was Esperanticized by a Norwegian. Liland |
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30 Jun 02 - 12:12 AM (#739636) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Escamillo Sorry, Spanish-language sites refer to the original lyrics in English classes for the little critters, but no translation. Un abrazo - Andrés |
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30 Jun 02 - 02:48 AM (#739672) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: GUEST,JTT Of course it's a little-known standard about this song that it's actually a coded subversive verse about Robert the Bruce, first sung in Scotland in the 16th century. |
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30 Jun 02 - 03:13 AM (#739677) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo Yes, "Peter" makes a good code name for "Robert" "the Bruce". Little-known indeed. Expatiate! Liland |
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30 Jun 02 - 03:37 AM (#739679) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: allie kiwi In New Zealand English (and I presume some others) it's Eensy weensy spider. That sounds like a scottish derivation to me? The 'Wee' part? Allie
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30 Jun 02 - 03:41 AM (#739681) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: allie kiwi Oops, should actually have read the posts above mine about Robert the Bruce *wacks head* Yup, Scottish. Allie
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30 Jun 02 - 04:34 AM (#739689) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: GUEST,JTT Heh, heh, heh. Got ya there! |
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30 Jun 02 - 07:29 AM (#739723) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: CapriUni Yes, "Peter" makes a good code name for "Robert" "the Bruce". Little-known indeed. Expatiate! Please do! I love little-known stories! |
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30 Jun 02 - 10:03 AM (#739755) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: bernil Sorry I didn't really understand the question (I'm wondering if other languages give the arachnid a moniker like we do, or leave him/her anonymous like we do. Arachnid? Moniker?) but on the site Liland gave us there were other translations too, e.g. the Swedish one. Just click on the other languages. In The Swedish version he's got a fantasy name Imse Vimse Spindel (= Spider) that seems to liken the english one. Berit |
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30 Jun 02 - 11:12 AM (#739777) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: CapriUni Berit: "Arachnid" is an animal in the spider family, including spiders, of course, but also mites, daddy-longlegs (which are not spiders), ticks and scorpians. The family got its name from a woman in Greek mythology named Arachne, who was a skilled weaver who dared to challenge the goddess Athena to a weaving contest. When it was overAthena acknowledged the mortal's skill, but the tapestry Arachne created mocked the Olympian gods, and in punishment for that, Athena turned her into a spider... "Moniker" is a fancy word for name... And I think that one of those "we"'s is a typo... |
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30 Jun 02 - 11:36 AM (#739785) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Bill D Clinton Hammond posted the parody (to "Mary Ellen Carter) here awhile back. |
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30 Jun 02 - 12:18 PM (#739796) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo My apologies for the complicated and confusing way I worded the original post. CapriUni has clarified the terms well, but actually, both "we's" were intentional, just differently inclusive. The first "we" means "we singers in Esperanto, i.e. my fellow Esperantists and I", while the second one means "we singers in American English". Since I am a speaker/singer of both languages, both are correct, but their juxtaposition is confusing, especially to anyone who doesn't know my languages of birth and of choice; and I think it's less clear in type than it would be spoken face to face, too. Sorry. Oh, and "expatiate" means "To speak or write at length" (from dictionary.com; Word of the Day on 5 January 2000). Second CapriUni's motion on the Bruce question, though I'm not sure but what GUEST JTT's preceding post (of 4:34 am) may indicate s/he was pulling our collective legs (which, counting the arachnid's, are quite a few) and there's no Bruce connection after all. "Little known standard" in the sense of "ad hoc invention"? As for "Itsy bitsy" versus "Eensy weensy", I've heard it sung here (Seattle) both ways, never gave it any attention. I suppose "wee[nsy]" is of Scots origin come to think of it, but I think here they are in free variation. Liland |
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30 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM (#739804) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Mr Happy as a child in north west england, i was taught 'incy wincy spider' |
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30 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM (#739822) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo The Mary Ellen Carter parody is really something, but what's the difference between the active Mudcat member named Clinton Hammond and the active Mudcat member named Clinton Hammond (Inactive)? Incy-wincy makes sense in a dialect where you get cold fit because you're afraid you might fall into a pit bog too wide to lip across, and die because no one heard your scrims, Mr. Happy. Is that the way you folks talk? But here's an odd thing. I am sure that I've heard "Eensy weensy spider", but I think in any other context I would expect "Teensy weensy" (the diminutive of "Teeny weeny"). And what about "Teeny-tiny"? Somebody oughta just develop a search engine smart enough to search all options in cases like this. Are you listening, Google™? Liland |
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30 Jun 02 - 01:45 PM (#739825) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Mr Happy li, everyone everywhere has some kind of accent or dialect. in the little folk group i'm in, anne's from liverpool, jim's from belfast, i'm from chester. i can't hear how i speak, they can hear me. i can hear their accents, but they say they can't hear their own ones but i do so, sorry i can't answer your q about how us folks speak |
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30 Jun 02 - 02:01 PM (#739833) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo I know what you mean about not being able to hear one's own accent; I guess what I should have asked is whether in your dialect (I don't mean your folk group's speech, but the dialect you grew up in where "incy wincy" was the normal way to sing about a small spider), your native dialect, whether "pit" and "peat" are homophones, i.e. pronounced the same. If so, then "incy wincy" would be a very reasonable way for it to be spelt (or spelled, as we write it over here). Vowels are subject to modifications much akin to the Folk Process. In American English there are some dialects where "marry merry Mary" is a series of three identically pronounced words, others where each is completely distinct from the others, and still other dialects where two are identical and the third distinct. In my own speech there is an audible difference if I speak very slowly, but at normal conversational speeds the three sound alike. Liland |
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30 Jun 02 - 02:08 PM (#739837) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Bill D of course, Gooogle does have *wildcard options to do searches based on partial spellings, and the are busy experimenting all the time... |
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30 Jun 02 - 04:54 PM (#739905) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Barbara I'll need Andres' help here, as I don't quite remember it but there's a Spanish version that goes: La aran~a pequenita Subio, subio, subio Calle (caje?) la lluvia Y todo lo llevo Revuelve el sol, y (it all dries out -- todo lo seco?) Y la aran~a pequenita Subio, subio, subio.
It's written in the margin of one of our RUS, and I couldn't find the right one off hand. Maybe a Spanish speaker can supply the rest. Also need the tilda over the "n" instead of next to it.
Blessings, |
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30 Jun 02 - 05:16 PM (#739908) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo La araña pequeñita ¡Muchísimas gracias, Barbara! Using your incipit on Google I've found this version on the web which differs in a couple places (esp. "vino" instead of "calle"): La Araña pequeñita subió, subió, subió. vino la lluvia y se la llevó. Salió el sol y todo lo secó, y la araña pequeñita subió, subió, subió. ¿Qué pienses, abrazador Escamillo? ;-) Okay, so, I'm still hoping for Danish, and also eager to learn of other versions. Japanese? Russian? Swahili? Somali? Hebrew? Samoan? I'm insatiable. Like a spider. Liland |
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30 Jun 02 - 10:53 PM (#739987) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Escamillo This last version makes sense very well. The other must be "Cayó la lluvia" (not calle): Vino la lluvia = the rain came Cayó la lluvia = the rain has fallen, or fell Un abrazo arácnido - Andrés :)
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01 Jul 02 - 01:10 AM (#740011) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: TeriLu I did some research a couple years back on this song because I use it as part of an hour-long pre-k/kindergarten program called "Spidersilk". (I work for a travelling children's museum) Anyway, my research came up with this song being by anon. (I'll bet a kid)in England, as the Incy,Wincy Spider, evolving into the Eensy Weensy Spider, and finally, the American version, the Itsy Bitsy Spider. I think one of the things I read said it had been around since the 1700s. Another interesting fact I found out- Little Miss Muffet, a real girl,was terrorized by her father, who would throw spiders at her, put them in her porridge, etc. Sick, huh? And by the way, the Mary Carter parody was written by Bob Blue, a wonderful writer of not-always children's songs. He is a member as I am, of CMN, ,Children's Music Network, a spin-off of People's Music Network. Nice seeing Jeri Mudcatter after 29 yrs at Old Songs. Peace, Terilu |
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01 Jul 02 - 03:11 AM (#740034) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Mr Happy li, the way i speak doesn't include 'pit' & 'peat' being pronounced homophonetically. my perception of this type of received pronunciation is more akin to s. african english. going back to topic, i asked my elder sister, who's 70+, where our family learned 'incy wincy spider' from. she said during ww2, there were a lot of foreign armed services personnel stationed in our local area, including many americans. she thought an american friend was the source of this rhyme because she remembered him reciting it to herself and my brother who was about 2 at the time. if this info is correct, if 'incy wincy' is really from the states, then its 'think again time' as regards your hypothesis. hope this is useful? cheers mr h |
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01 Jul 02 - 03:29 AM (#740037) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo Thanks, Mr. Happy; useful I'm not sure; but indubitably topical. And TeriLu's research seems to support the notion that "incy, wincy" was the original spelling. Do you use (indeed, would you even understand) the term "incy, wincy" anywhere other than in this song? Liland |
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01 Jul 02 - 03:53 AM (#740038) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Mr Happy li, as a toddler, it must have been explained to me that 'incy wincy' meant 'little' no i don't use the term at all in any other context. mr h |
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01 Jul 02 - 05:11 AM (#740045) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Nigel Parsons Re: the Norwegian version "Little Peter Edderkopp" my dictionary gives the equivalent attercop, obsolete or dialect a spider: an ill-natured person. [O.E. ator= poison, and (perhaps) cop=head, or copp= cup] I looked this up because IIRC Tolkien claims (in The Hobbit) that spiders hate to be taunted with the name 'Attercop' incy wincy isn't in my dictionary, but clearly belongs to a series of exaggerated diminutive forms e.g. "An itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini" Nigel |
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01 Jul 02 - 01:22 PM (#740159) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: EBarnacle1 About 25 years ago, I picked up a book of Jutland folksongs. Included in it was a toast, sung to the tune of "Lille Peder Adderkop." With help of my hosts, I translated it to: Here's to all the good folk who have enough to eat, Here's to all the poor ones who haven't any meat; Here's to all the lucky ones with no reason to complain; And we'll sing for sunshine on a cloudy day. I have used this over the years. Most of the people who have heard it have asked for the words. |
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01 Jul 02 - 02:56 PM (#740214) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: GUEST,JTT Incey Wincey in Ireland, anyway. The Robert the Bruce story - try googling for "robert the bruce" and "spider", but it's something like this: the Scots king Robert the Bruce was hiding in an attic from the marauding English, and was in deep despair. He'd lost six battles (?) Then he saw a spider try to swing itself across the trapdoor and fail six times, but it succeeded the seventh time - and he got his courage back and himself won the seventh battle. Or maybe it was eight and nine. Whatever. |
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01 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM (#740305) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo So what's in the jar? Whisky or whiskey? (Bettin' on the latter.) Thanks for the Bruce yarn, JTT. Liland |
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02 Jul 02 - 03:12 AM (#740548) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: AKS Here's the Finnish one. The tune used here is different (from the one in DT) but the meter is the same. I don't know how old it is, but was generally known by the time I started school in 1961. The first verse is quite literally the same as the English, the second is about the ant carrying straws to build the heap, the third about the grasshopper playing the fiddle, the fourt - the least common one, not surprisingly - about the mosquito/gnat buzzing at sunset, and the last one about the spider still weaving the web after the sun has set. HÄMÄHÄKKI
Hämä-hämähäkki kiipes langalle
Muura-muurahainen kortta kuljettaa
Heinä-heinäsirkka soittaa viuluaan
Sääski-sääski pieni surraa parvessaan
Hämä-hämähäkki kutoo verkkojaan AKS |
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02 Jul 02 - 06:00 AM (#740600) Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Nigel Parsons Liland: So, what's in the jar? For preference Whisky, but as the song is Irish it would have to be Whiskey. With all the additives put in food being given 'E numbers' in Europe, I prefer my whisky with no additional Es! Nigel |
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14 May 17 - 02:10 PM (#3855058) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo This song came up again in the Duolingo Esperanto Learners Facebook group yesterday, and today Lee Miller posted a stanza of the Esperanto version I was looking for lo these 15 years ago... Eta Petro arane' grimpas sur la mur' Venas pluvego pelas Petron for. Suno brilas, seka estas ĝi Eta Petro arane' grimpas grimpas pli ... |
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14 May 17 - 05:19 PM (#3855091) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Monique Haruo, here are the versions we have on Mama Lisa's World so far. Linking to them all would take ages but you can find them all.
China: I蜘蛛 |
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14 May 17 - 05:54 PM (#3855096) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Mysha Hi, "I'm wondering if other languages give the arachnid a moniker ... or leave him/her anonymous ..." A bit hard to answer for Dutch: Hansje Pansje Kevertje obviously has a name, Hansje, or Hansje Pansje. But since he's a beetle, rather than a spider, he's an insect, rather than an arachnid. Bye, Mysha |
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14 May 17 - 06:39 PM (#3855102) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Haruo Lee subsequently posted his own translation, which is arguably an improvement. |
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15 May 17 - 02:04 PM (#3855282) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Thompson Ah, Monique, you're in ahead of me with L'araignée Gypsy |
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15 May 17 - 04:29 PM (#3855295) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations From: Monique I have a story about the French version. We posted it on Mama Lisa's World some time in 2008. In Jan. 2012, I got an email from a lady saying she'd written, composed and registered it in 1961 along with other kids songs and she'd like us to give credits to her on our page, which we did. After I sent her a link to Peggy Seeger's songbook "American Folk Songs for Children" and a book published in 1910 where the song is mentioned as "classical" (then more or less "old") showing the song had existed in English for soooooooome time, she was amazed and she assured she'd never heard of it before, she told me all the when-where... she'd written it and I felt she was sincere. Le mystère reste entier. |