Tune Req: Sven (SVEND I ROSENSGAARD)

18 Jun 02 - 11:38 AM (#732226)
Subject: Sven
From: GUEST,Tony lacey

Has anyone got the words and dots for the Swedish ballad Sven and Rosengurd (gard)/Gord? it is similar to the two sisters ithink, someone murders somebody that's for sure

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18 Jun 02 - 11:52 AM (#732237)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: Sorcha

I'm not finding anything.........

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18 Jun 02 - 11:59 AM (#732240)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: MMario

There are recordings of SVEN I ROSENGARD listed - but I can't find midi's or sheet music.

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18 Jun 02 - 12:02 PM (#732246)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: Malcolm Douglas

Sven I Rosengard is an analogue of the ballad Edward. I'd certainly be interested, too, in any text or music anyone might be able to come up with. I expect that there will be a number of texts in Archer Taylor's book "Edward" and "Sven I Rosengard": a Study in the Dissemination of a Ballad (1931), but perhaps without music. I don't have that, unfortunately (yet).

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18 Jun 02 - 12:44 PM (#732280)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

There're more than 20 versions (Danish, Swedish, Finnish), in addition to British and American ones, in Taylor's book. Most are without English translations; only one tune (to a Finnish version) is given. If you ask, I'll post any version. A Swedish version (a very short fragmentary piece) recorded in 1955 is on Den Medeltida Balladen (The Medieval Ballad) (Caprice [Sweden] CAP 22035). A modern redition with a different melody is on Nordan by Lena Willemark and Ale Moller (Click here for sound clip).

~Masato

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18 Jun 02 - 02:24 PM (#732348)
Subject: Lyr Add: SVEND I ROSENSGAARD
From: masato sakurai

Found a Danish version.

SVEND I ROSENSGAARD
(Son, Come Tell To Me)

(Andantino)
1. Hvor [Em]har du været saa længe?
 [Am]Svend i Rosensgaard!
Og [G]jeg har [Am]været i [Em]enge,
 [B7]Kære moder [Em]vor!
 I vente mig [B7]sent eller [Em]aldrig!

2. Hvorfor er dit svæd saa blodigt?
For jeg har dræbt min broder.

3. Hvor vil du dig hen vende?
Jeg vil af landet rende.

4. Naar vil du dig hjem vende?
Naar alle kvinder bliver enke.

5. Naar bliver alle kvinder enke?
Naar alle mænd bliver døde.

6. Naar bliver alle mænd døde?
Naar huse og gaarde bliver øde.

7. Naar bliver huse og gaarde øde?
Naar vi ser fjedren synke.

8. Naar ser vi fjedren synke?
Naar vi ser stenen flyde.

9. Naar ser vi stenen flyde?
Naar vi ser havet brænde.

10. Naar ser vi havet brænde?
Naar ser vi verdens ende.

(English translation)
1. O where have you been a-roaming?
 Son, come tell to me.
All day I've been in the meadow.
 O my mother dear,
 It's I may come home late or never.

2. O why is your sword so bloody?
Because I've killed my brother.

3. O where, O where will you turn to?
I'll flee to some far country.

4. And when will you come back home, love?
When women all are widows.

5. And when will women be widows?
When there is no man living.

6. And when will no man be living?
When farmlands are all wasted.

7. And when will farmlands be wasted?
When we see feathers a-sinking.

8. And when will feathers be sinking?
When we see stones a-floating.

9. And when will stones be floating?
When we see oceans a-burning.

10. And when will oceans be burning?
When we have seen the world's end.

SOURCE: Maud Karpeles, ed., Folk Songs of Europe (Oak, 1964, p. 4; with music); from Danske Folkesange og Melodier, by A.P. Berggreen (3rd Ed., Copenhagen, 1869)

~Masato

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18 Jun 02 - 02:37 PM (#732355)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: McGrath of Harlow

I thought this must be another World Cup thread.

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18 Jun 02 - 07:37 PM (#732566)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

Swedish "Sven I Rosengåd" (only one verse) sung a cappella by Elin Lind on Den Medeltida Balladen is:

Var har du varit så länge, Sven i rosengård?
Jag har varit stallet och vattnet hästarna, kära moder vår
--I vänten mig sent eller aldrig

~Masato

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18 Jun 02 - 07:39 PM (#732569)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

"Sven I Rosengård"

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18 Jun 02 - 08:11 PM (#732585)
Subject: Lyr Add: SVEN I ROSENGARD
From: masato sakurai

Two Swedish versions.

Sven i Rosengård (från Värmland)

"Var har du varit så länge,
Du Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag har varit i stallet,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig."

"Varför är din kläder så blodig,
Du Sven i Rosengård?"
"Vita fålan spjärnte mig,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig."

"Varför är din skjorta så blodig,
Du Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag har mördat broder min,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig."

"Vart skall du då ta vägen,
Du Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag skall rymma av landet,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig."

"När kommer du då tillbaka,
Du Sven i Rosengård?"
"När korpen han vitnar,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig."

"Och när vitnar korpen,
Du Sven i Rosengård?"
"När gråsten han flyter,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig."

* * *

Sven i Rosengård (allmän)

"Var har du varit så länge,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag har varit i stallet,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Vad har du gjort i stallet,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag har vattnat fålarna,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Vi är din fot så blodig,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Svarta fålan trampa mig,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Vi är ditt svärd så blodigt,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag har slagit min broder, Kära moder vår. I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Vart skall du då ta vägen,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Jag skall rymma av landet,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Vad gör du då av din hustru,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Hon får spinna för födan,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Var gör du då av barnen små,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"De får gå för var mans dörr,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"När kommer du tillbaka,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"När svanen han svartnar,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Och när svartnar svanen,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"När korpen han vitnar,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Och när vitnar korpen,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"När gråstenen flyter,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

"Och när flyter gråsten,
Sven i Rosengård?"
"Stenen flyter aldrig,
Kära moder vår.
I vänten mig sent eller aldrig!"

(From THIS PAGE)

~Masato

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18 Jun 02 - 08:23 PM (#732598)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: Sorcha

Masato, you are just bloody amazing.

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18 Jun 02 - 08:23 PM (#732599)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

That site has MIDI for Rosengard.

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18 Jun 02 - 09:45 PM (#732635)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: Malcolm Douglas

I don't really understand Swedish, so I can't tell for sure if a source is named for the above; nothing specific, though, I think. I've removed the accompaniment from the midi in order to make the tune more clear:

Sven i Rosengård (1) midi

A text almost identical to the second one quoted by Masato above is given at Skjaldeners Bibliotek:

Sven i rosengård

Staff notation is provided; similar to the midi already mentioned, but phrased a little differently and worth quoting also:

Sven i Rosengård (2) midi

Thanks to Masato for finding references; I hadn't expected the material to be available. The trick, as it turns out, is to search for Sven i Rosengård rather than Sven i Rosengard.

I have a vague feeling that I've heard a rather similar melody used for a French Canadian analogue of Lord Randal, but I could easily be wrong about that. I will have to check when I unpack the relevant tape.

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18 Jun 02 - 10:18 PM (#732651)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

Thanks, Malcolm. I saw the Skjaldeners site, but didn't notice the staff notation is there. Elin Lind's singing of "Sven i Rosengård" on Den Medeltida Balladen is HERE. This is all that is recorded, not a "clip" (to be exact, originally a clip).

~Masato

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19 Jun 02 - 06:16 AM (#732805)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

Contemporary renditions of the ballad:

Swedish techno folk group B.A.R.K.'s full version

Another sound clip from Nordan

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19 Jun 02 - 11:06 AM (#732946)
Subject: Lyr Add: SVEND IN THE ROSE GARDEN
From: masato sakurai

More literal translation of a Danish version ("Svend i Rosengård (Hvor har du været så længe)") from Erik Dal, Danish Ballads and Folk Songs, translated by Henry Meyer (The American-Scandinavian Foundation, 1967, pp. 133-134; translated text only).

SVEND IN THE ROSE GARDEN
Recording from South Sealand by Franziska Carlsen, 1846

"Where were you at this late hour
-- Svend in the rose garden near?"
"I have been in the bower
-- O my mother dear.
-- I shall be late or never."

"Why is your sword so bloody?"
"Because I have killed my bother."

"Where will you turn your course?"
"I'll flee this country of ours."

"What will you do with your good wife?"
"She'll spin for her food and keep alive."

"What will you do with the children of yours?"
"I shall place them with friends of ours."

"When shall we see your home-coming?"
"When women are all widow-women."

"When are they all widow-women?"
"When all the men are dead."

"When are all men dead?"
"When all farms are desolate."

"When are they desolate?"
"When ravens they grow white."

"When do ravens grow white?"
"When the swans grow black."

"When do swans grow black?"
"When we see feathers sink."

"When will we see feathers sink?"
"When we see stones afloat."

"When will we see stones afloat?"
"When we see the ocean bloom."

"When will the ocean bloom?"
"When we hear the crack of doom."

Notes: "DgF 340A. See also DgF X, with references to important recent research. * Although the story of this ballad precedes its beginning and possibly continues after its ending, and we thus have only a string of riddle questions and answers (in themselves far older than the poem as in No. 20 ["Svend Normand"]) to stress the murderer's indelible sin, it belongs, nevertheless, together with its Nordic and English parallels (Child 13 Edward) to the most admired specimens of these countries' folk poetry. Its background is indefinable; it simply passes into the chivalry group, although it is tempting to claasify it as a mythical ballad. In early versions one recognizes a knightly setting, in later ones a peasant environment. Rose garden seems to mean cemetery, which the singer possibly has not understood." (p. 276)

Algernon Charles Swinburne's translation of a Finnish version, "The Bloody Son", has been posted HERE.

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20 Jun 02 - 09:16 AM (#733573)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

Swedish versions ("Svend i rosengård"). They're musically very different.

Lyrics & mp3 clip

mp3 recoding (clip)

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20 Jun 02 - 09:21 AM (#733578)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

Sorry, the recordings just above are Danish.

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20 Jun 02 - 11:40 AM (#733689)
Subject: Lyr add: VELISURMAAJA
From: masato sakurai

A shorter Finnish version of "Velisurmaaja" ["The Fratricide"] (from THIS PAGE:

Velisurmaaja

'-Mistäs tulet, kustas tulet,
Poikani iloinen?
-Meren rannalta, meren rannalta
Äitini kultainen.

-Mitä sieltä tekemästä,
Poikani iloinen?
-Hevostani juottamasta,
Äitini kultainen.

-Mist' on selkäsi saveen tullut,
Poikani iloinen?
-Hevonen huiskasi hännällänsä,
Äitini kultainen

-Mist' on jalkasi vereen tullut,
Poikani iloinen?
-Hevonen polkaisi raudallansa,
Äitini kultainen.

-Mist' on miekkasi vereen tullut,
Poikani iloinen?
-Pistin veljeni kuoliaaksi,
Äitini kultainen.'

~suomalainen kansanruno~

German translation ("Der Brudermörder") is in Europäische Balladen (Reclam 8508-14, 1967, pp. 141-143).

~Masato

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20 Jun 02 - 11:43 AM (#733691)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

The link should have been THIS.

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20 Jun 02 - 09:18 PM (#734033)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

Sibelius' Six Finnish Folksongs Transcribed For Pno: Velisurmaaja (sound clip)

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21 Jun 02 - 02:35 AM (#734107)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Sven
From: masato sakurai

John Soininen's singing of Velisurmaaja (rec. November 5, 1939, collected by Sidney Robertson Cowell in Berkeley, California)

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02 Nov 03 - 10:37 AM (#1046222)
Subject: RE: Req: Sven (SVEND I ROSENSGAARD)
From: masato sakurai

There're translations of Danish and Finnish versions in Francis James Child's English and Scottish Ballads, vol. 2 (1860, pp.347-352) [this is not his definitive edition].

         THE YOUTH OF ROSENGORD.
Sven i Rosengård, Svenska Folk-Visor, iii. 3, and Arwidsson's Fornsånger, ii. 83: translated in Literature and Romance of Northern Europe, i. 263.

"So long where hast thou tarried,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"I have been into my stable,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"What hast thou done in the stable,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"I have watered the horses,
Our mother dear."
Long may ye look for me, or look for me never.

"Why is thy foot so bloody,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"The black horse has trampled me,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"Why is thy sword so bloody,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"I have murdered my brother,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"Whither wilt thou betake thee,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"I shall flee my country,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"What will become of thy wedded wife,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"She must spin for her living,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"What will become of thy children small,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"They must beg from door to door,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"When comest thou back again,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"When the swan is black as night,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"And when will the swan be black as night,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"When the raven shall be white as snow,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"And when will the raven be white as snow,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"When the grey rocks take to flight,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.

"And when will fly the grey rocks,
Young man of Rosengord?"
"The rocks they will fly never,
Our mother dear."
Long may you look for me, or look for me never.


    THE BLOOD-STAINED SON.

   A translation, nearly word for word, of Der Blutige Sohn, printed from oral tradition in Schröter's Finnische Runen, (Finnisch und Deutsch,) ed. 1834, p. 151.

"SAY whence com'st thou, say whence com'st thou,
Merry son of mine?"
"From the lake-side, from the lake-side,
O dear mother mine."

"What hast done there, what hast done there,
Merry son of mine?"
"Steeds I watered, steeds I watered,
O dear mother mine."

"Why thus clay-bedaubed thy jacket,
Merry son of mine?"
"Steeds kept stamping, steeds kept stamping,
O dear mother mine."

"But how came thy sword so bloody,
Merry son of mine?"
"I have stabbed my only brother,
O dear mother mine."

"Whither wilt thou now betake thee,
Merry son of mine?"
"Far away to foreign countries,
O dear mother mine."

"Where leav'st thou thy gray-haired father,
Merry son of mine?"
"Let him chop wood in the forest,
Never wish to see me more,
0 dear mother mine."

"Where leav'st thou thy gray-haired mother,
Merry son of mine?"
"Let her sit, her flax a-picking,
Never wish to see me more,
0 dear mother mine."

"Where leav'st thou thy wife so youthful,
Merry son of mine?"
"Let her deck her, take another,
Never wish to see me more,
0 dear mother mine."

"Where leav'st thou thy son so youthful,
Merry son of mine?"
"He to school, and bear the rod there,
[Never wish to see me more,]
0 dear mother mine."

"Where leav'st thou thy youthful daughter,
Merry son of mine?
"She to the wood and eat wild berries,
Never wish to see me more,
O dear mother mine."

"Home when com'st thou back from roaming,
Merry son of mine?"
"In the north when breaks the morning,
O dear mother mine."

"In the north when breaks the morning,
Merry son of mine?"
"When stones dance upon the water,
O dear mother mine."

"When shall stones dance on the water,
Merry son of mine?"
"When a feather sinks to the bottom,
O dear mother mine."

"When shall feathers sink to the bottom,
Merry son of mine?"
"When we all shall come to judgment,
O dear mother mine."

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