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28 Jun 02 - 05:15 PM (#739059) Subject: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Paul Mitchell I'm hoping some of you good people can help. Next weekend I have a gig that involves two 45 minute sets. I will be singing alone, but for two songs, unamplified in a barn. Having had a run through tonight I'm wondering if there are any tips I can follow for avoiding a sore throat during the gig. I'm aware that I'm likely to get back "What ever you do, don't drink any alcohol...". Very sound advice. However, just for interests sake, if I were to drink alcohol what would do least damage? Anyone recommend a throat spray? Sweet? Any ideas welcomed. Paul |
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28 Jun 02 - 05:57 PM (#739077) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: mack/misophist I used to hang aroung with some flaminco singers. That's hard on the throat, you know. It seems to me they were always sucking lemons. That could be the reason. |
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28 Jun 02 - 06:16 PM (#739081) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST Gargle whisky Works for me...
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28 Jun 02 - 06:22 PM (#739084) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,DW at work Alternate beer with water. For every beer you drink, drink the same or more of water, and alternate them. DW |
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28 Jun 02 - 06:25 PM (#739086) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: treaties1 Hi Paul, You don't say whether you are in the U.k or not but, if you are, where I live in Lancashire there are sweets such as Vocal Zones, whilst Sanderson's Specific is available as a gargle/drink or sweets. Recently I also bought in Upton on Severn, Proctor's Pinelyptus Pastilles as recommended by M.Maurice Chevalier, Mme. Sarah Bernhardt, Miss Ellen Terry, Sir Henry Irving etc. All the above work for me and I can sing with the Shellbacks Chorus for up to an Hour indoors or out quite comfortably, and/or a full evening as part of a 4 part harmony group or joining in other peoples chorus. I must also confess to having plenty of lubrication especially in a dusty barn usually a long mineral water with a shot of some alchol. Port is also brlliant on its own or diluted. A good tip is to ask your chemist for something suitable. Good luck with the gig and hope the above is useful |
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28 Jun 02 - 06:27 PM (#739087) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,Fradley Drinks lots. If you get a sore throat, you'll be less likely to notice. JF |
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28 Jun 02 - 07:04 PM (#739109) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Gray D Hmmm. A lot of the problem with "over-singing" and the resultant sore throat is down to tension. The more relaxed you are, the less damage you do. The effectiveness of what's been suggested so far is all down to how tolerant your body is to the various substances mentioned and how your particular throat works. Beer is a well known "enabler" for singers. Could be because a sufficiency of it will definitely relax your throat. Unfortunatly, as we know, it can have a similar effect on the brain, leading to performances that you think are okay, but nobody in the audience does. P'sonally I don't touch a drop before going onstage. I suspect that if you alternate beer and water you're going to have to run offstage fairly frequently to deal with the side effects. I know that you don't have much time to find out what's best for you, but I suggest that you use a drink that you already know is soothing to your throat. I use orange juice mixed with a little Indian tonic water (that's its UK name; don't know what its called elsewhere). I know that the combination horrifies some singers, but it works for me. Sorry to get a little detailed, but it keeps my throat nicely lined whilst cutting through any build up of phlegm (yes, I know, "Yeuw!", but its a physical process). Drink when you need to, but don't drink obsessively, otherwise we're back to running offstage to deal with side effects again, or trying to be all artistic and lyrical (fnar) whilst dying for a pee. Good luck in your search. Good luck with the gig. |
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28 Jun 02 - 07:52 PM (#739135) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Celtic Soul Warm up ahead of time. Do some comfortable scales, and stretch out the rest of your body while you're at it. Having tension in the rest of your body will only add to any tension you may have in your throat and chest. Whatever you do, do *not* over sing your voice. Regardless of how acoustically unsound the environment may be, pushing yourself beyond your limits will neither be entertaining, nor will it be good for you (and it is possible that it can do permanent damage). Sing to those who can hear you while projecting **comfortably**. Drink a lot, yes...but *NOT* alcohol. I am sorry, but that has to be some of the worst advice anyone could give you. Water with some lemon is wonderful. If you can stand the water to be warm, all the better. And lastly, if you have any vocal training at all, now is the time to use it. Watch your posture, watch out for tension in your neck and face. Watch out for pushing from the upper chest and throat instead of from your diaphragm. And relax. You're there to have fun. If you are relaxed, you are more likely not to push yourself, or have tense muscles (which causes you to strain all the more).
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28 Jun 02 - 07:56 PM (#739139) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Sorcha Don't have a tonsillectemy.......... |
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28 Jun 02 - 08:13 PM (#739148) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Caz Hia Paul In my opinion it all depends on what you do in general really. For instanse, I don't drink any alcohol before or during a performance as it tends to affect the sound, words and concentration, I only wish I could drink but I've tried it and for me it doesn't work. So, I would recomed staying away from alcohol, but that's just my experience! I have noticed over the last 2.5 years that my throught has become more sensetive and I tend to use lockets before and after gigs and drink loads of water between performances, approx 5 pints (I'd rather beer but I dearn't). I have been told about VocaZones but find that Lockets work for me and so I'm loathed to try any other lozenger. I suffer from Larengitis, which is bad for a lead singer but when I'm suffering I follow my tried and tested methods of 1. Don't practise for the gig if you know what you are doing and are confident with the words, harmony etc. 2. Locket yourself up prior to the gig and have them to hand during the gig. I make a joke of it with the audience. I find that this is easier than trying to hide the fact that you have a bad throught. 3. Make sure that you have plenty of water to hand throughout the gig. Hope this helps. Good luck Carole - OUTSIDER |
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28 Jun 02 - 08:17 PM (#739151) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Celtic Soul Oh! And, licorice root. Not the candy variety, I mean the stuff with bark on it. It's nasty, and you do have to spit out the bits, but sucking it has always helped me immensly.
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29 Jun 02 - 02:39 AM (#739299) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Liz the Squeak Surely liquorice root would have the same effect as the beer/water, only more so?? I use the alternate drinks method, beer and OJ & lemonade usually, seems to work OK and I don't need to pee until the 2nd beer. By then the gig is usually over or the session ended, so it doesn't matter. Mind you, once I do pee, it seems to be every 20 mins after that, it's keeping hold of that initial pee that's the trigger..... Hmmmm LTS |
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29 Jun 02 - 04:17 AM (#739318) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Paul Mitchell I'll hunt out some throat sweets today. I am in England so will look for the brands suggested. Thanks for the advice people. I think the best thing to do will be to encourage the audience to drink. The drunker they are the better I sound! Thanks for the good luck messages, I'll let you know how I get on. Paul |
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29 Jun 02 - 10:36 AM (#739404) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Celtic Soul That's not my experience of it, Liz... Beer has the ability to relax (maybe a bit more than you want if you don't watch the intake). The problem with Beer/alcohol is that, along with being relaxed can come being off key. All muscles relax when you're embibing, to include the ones you sing with, and some folks don't notice the diff. Plus, if not enough water *is* taken along with alcohol (and after getting a certain distance into fuzzyheadedness, how many of us really continue to think about how much water we should be drinking?), then you risk some dehydration, which is *very* bad for the voice. Licorice root simply sooths *some*, but not like certain lozenges. It doesn't numb the area so that you cannot tell when damage is being done. What has worked for me is to *not* dull my senses (alcohol and some lozenges do this). I like being relaxed but fully aware (no numbness in my throat or mind). That may just be me, but so far, it has never failed. |
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29 Jun 02 - 12:33 PM (#739432) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,Shantymanuk Hi Paul, The happier and more relaxed you are, the less likely you are to strain your throat. Have a quiet reflective pint, and sup it slowly about half an hour before you go on - that should let you get rid of most of the liquid excess before you go on. Warm up your voice gently before you go on. Sing a gentle song if you have one that doesn't evoke bad emotion. Remember that when you go on stage, the nature of most audiences, in our game at least, is that they want to enjoy your performance, to join in singing with you, to listen to your songs, voice and art. They generally want to identify with you as part of a cracking evening. When I sing, I try to keep my head fairly level or slightly raised - I DON'T throw my head back as this reduces support for the vocal cords. Simple posture is to pull my bum in to avoid hollowing my back for the same reason (that reason, and that I am vain and not proud of my beer belly). I keep to the key I have rehearsed for the song and I try not to be tempted to push the pitch up to gain extra volume as this is the major thing that leads to voice strain - if I find myself doing this, I just remember how many nervous pub singers I have heard do this and with what result. I am not ashamed to use a pitch pipe, nor to consult a song list, but if you use one, make it large enough print that you can see it on the floor at your feet. One of the things that I find if I don't use a pitch pipe is that I tend to start the next song in the same key as the previous one, because it's still ringing in my ears... and if I do pitch something wrongly (it happens, despite the precautions), I stop the song emphatically and wave my hands around, with comments about the durability of my truss, upsetting the bats in the rafters, or whatever, then I start from scratch, pitch pipe again, and I do take two. This is a major reason for being sober - if you have been supping all night this is hard to do. I watch a previous act because it tells me what the audience is up to. If the audience is noisy and fragmented, I will start with something like "Flying Fish Sailor", but at a normal volume, because everyone knows the "Blow the Man Down" chorus, and it tends to seep out through the layers; I can see how far it gets, and can judge the next song accordingly. But that's all about me and a little bit of how I work it for me. I tried to make it as much like it is for me as I could, in the sincere help that it will help you Paul. In terms of drinks, I have a slow pint before, I have a small port and brandy on hand in each set, along with a pint of water at room temperature, with lots of lemon or orange slices in it... and I sip the port, only if I need it, and usually it lasts me for both sets, and the water I only take about 10mL at a time between each song and hold it in my mouth to refresh before I swallow. In my interval, I get some fresh air and another quietly reflective pint. I like to think that I would avoid gratuitous sex at this stage of my performance, but as it has not happened yet, and I think it is never really likely to be an issue with me, (if it ever did, what second set?), I tend to refuse drinks (full pint), and to disengage from "do you know ..." conversations fairly quickly. I have gone into a great deal of detail here, but on re-reading it doesn't seem to describe my philosophy. I guess you would have to be me to follow this crap, but if you can get any help at all from this, I will be glad to have helped. Alan. PS If you are Paul/Modern Triumph/Middle Bar, and recognise Borneo, please e-mail me on alangiles@btopenworld.com, as I would love to hear from you.
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29 Jun 02 - 12:53 PM (#739440) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: nutty Yawning opens the throat and relaxes the vocal chords .... Find a quiet corner before you go on stage ... have a good yawn and you will be amazed at how much more power there is in your voice. |
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29 Jun 02 - 02:45 PM (#739479) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Phillip I work as a speech and language therapist for the NHS in England and I do a lot of work on the voice. The vocal tract is like an engine - keep it lubricated. The best lubricant, in fact the only one I would recommend, is water. Any alcohol is a diuretic, which will be bad systemically, but anything that is red or brown will be worse as it will have a topical drying effect on the mucosa - that's why we call things dry, as opposed to sweet. (Coffee and tea for the same reason, I blame the tannins.) Especially avoid spirits as these will inflame the vocal cords - just inhaling alcohol fumes makes the normally pearly white cords go pink. This means inflammation, increased tenderness - and the cords are as delicate as the whites of your eyes so look after them as well as you would your eyes. Avoid acidic drinks and fizzy drinks as these too will dry the vocal tract. (So no fruit juices or lemonade or carboanted water.) It's just water, water, water. I find no difference between hot or cold water. The very best thing you can do, if at all possible, is to inhale steam as this goes directly to the larynx, whereas drinking water just has a beneficial knock-on effect. Don't put anything in with the water you're steaming from unless you're trying to clear your sinuses or something. Menthol and stuff like that dry the mucosa. Using the engine analogy, don't let the oil run dry then fill it up, but keep it topped up all the time - a mouthful between songs. Don't use anaesthetic lozenges - they only hide the messages from the vocal cords. If you have a sore throat give it a rest or you will end up with bruised vocal cords and longer term problems than if you had rested the voice for a couple of days. All of this applies to any professional voice user in any circumstance. rgds Phillip |
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29 Jun 02 - 05:05 PM (#739519) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,JTT Philip, any tips on improving clarity of diction? Exercises? |
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29 Jun 02 - 05:43 PM (#739528) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Celtic Soul Phillip, thanks for so succinctly penning that. |
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30 Jun 02 - 01:32 AM (#739658) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Kaleea As a voice major & voice instructor, I was taught (& told by Dr.'s that alcohol is VERY damaging to one's vocal folds (aka vocal chords). A sore throat is often caused by either overuse/mususe or germs/viruses & such. If one is cautious, one will keep voice use to minimun, practice frequent hand washing (Dr's say the #1 thing to prevent the spread of germs!), and wear a scarf in the winter, & stay away from allergins & strong chemicals all the time. Just before & during gigs: DO NOT use alcohol nor drink very hot or very cold beverages. Room temperature water is best. If one has lots of allergies, antihistimines & decongrstants can dry out the throat, also. One should also seek out proper voice training/coaching, and learn to vocalize properly before performances so as to have the voice warmed up & so that you cause no excess strain on your vocal folds. |
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30 Jun 02 - 04:37 AM (#739691) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Paul Mitchell Thanks again people. Shantymanuk, great stuff, I'll try and keep it in mind. I have several public performances under my belt and can readily identify with the "you sound best when your happy" line. Thanks for the good wishes. I haven't got any thraot sweets yet. I'll try some out but am worried about numbing my throat and not really being able to feel what's going on. I might ask a herbalist friend for a liquorice root drink, that might do the job (but it will make my beer taste AWFUL!) THanks again every one. Paul |
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30 Jun 02 - 10:03 AM (#739756) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Phillip Clarity of diction... Mmm, well, it's not really something we do, as a profession, unless it's caused by something such as a stroke or a progressive neurological disease. You might very occasionally get someone who has emotional or psychological problems which are connected with poor diction or mumbling. It would be difficult to tease out cause and effect as the voice (and so speech, secondarily) is so tightly connected with how we feel and how we see ourselves. What we don't do would be take someone who is absolutely right as rain except that they have poor diction or an unfashionable accent or something. In other words, the Henry Higgins enunciation issue. You could get a voice coach to work on that, but you don't need me to start ssaying to you "Well, when did all this start? What was happening at that time? How do you feel about it?" etc etc. (Urgh...) A couple of other things I should mention. If anyone ever has hoarseness (or a sore throat) that lasts for more than two weeks see a doctor. It's probably nothing. If it's not nothing then all the lozenges in the world won't help. And if you ever do see a voicey type of therapist who is willing to see you without an ENT doctor's referral be very suspicious because properly registered therapists are not allowed to. It's for patients' protection, because just like all the lozenges inthe world won't help throat cancer, neither will all the speech and language therapists, whereas one surgeon will. rgds Phillip (Cough, cough, splutter splutter, gargle gargle!) |
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30 Jun 02 - 01:57 PM (#739829) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Liz the Squeak Don't eat cornflakes.... I just did and got a killer razor blade one in the back of the throat..... LTS |
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30 Jun 02 - 02:29 PM (#739846) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Peter Kasin Try "Chloraseptic," if it's sold where you live. It's a spray sold over the counter that dulls pain as well as containing an antiseptic. Back to the world cup final. Ronaldo just scored. chanteyranger
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30 Jun 02 - 02:35 PM (#739851) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Liz the Squeak on or off the pitch? LTS sorry for the thread creep, managed to sucessfully aviod all but 3 minutes of the game! |
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30 Jun 02 - 05:54 PM (#739915) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Melani Don't use Chloraseptic WHILE singing. As someone mentioned farther up, anesthetic preparations will only hide pain that is meant to be a warning signal. I have been very sternly instructed in a singing workshop never to do that. Use it afterwards if you need to. |
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30 Jun 02 - 10:41 PM (#739979) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Mudlark So much good info here from knowledgeable people. I am not an entertainer, but I do sing at convalescent homes, and some are really nonresponsive audiences, which means no interaction, just me singing one song after another for 45 minutes. I've found it helps to start with easy stuff to limber up (and loosen up), and keep those songs with a range that is a stretch until I'm feel ready to reach for it. I go for diction over volume...it's a great aid to projection without strain.
My own experience is that anything with sugar (or any kind of sweetening), including throat lozenges, syrups, etc. will clog my pipes, and I too, sadly, find alcohol to be a disabler. So it's boring but effective water in small sips. Good luck...bet you knock 'em dead. How long do you have between sets? |
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30 Jun 02 - 11:58 PM (#740001) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Suck Dutch Salt Double Black Licquorice
Sincerely,
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01 Jul 02 - 02:10 AM (#740025) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: SeanM Just finished up 7 weekends of four half hour shows plus a few mini-sets a day at an outdoors dusty and HOT Renaissance Festival. With the exception of the weeks bracketing the nasty cold that I got, I found that as long as I a)didn't push my voice too hard, b)drank SOME water/gatorade, c) didn't yell or scream everything came out well. If you don't know how to already, learn to project. Even if you don't learn to fully utilize it in singing, an audience is normally fairly attentive to a song and you can get away with slightly lower volume. But having that projection can be a lifesaver in many ways... you can keep attention between numbers, make sure the audience knows what's coming next, and also shoot down any heckler in the audience because YOU are louder AND aimed at the crowd... M |
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01 Jul 02 - 07:44 AM (#740061) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST Argent Nig or curate's pills are a good homeopathic pick me up if the voice starts to go through overuse. They work almost instantly and will get you through the gig. Just let a couple disolve under the tongue. The only long term cure is to learn how to use your voice properly so you don't overdrive it and (in the long term) wreck it. |
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01 Jul 02 - 03:08 PM (#740217) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Peter Kasin I wouldn't use chloraseptic while singing, but before. It will help get you through the gig. |
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01 Jul 02 - 03:10 PM (#740219) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Anglo I've had echinacea spray recommended but haven't had a chance to get some and try it out yet. Anyone else used this? |
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01 Jul 02 - 03:48 PM (#740237) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: EBarnacle1 The best, vilest tasting cure I have found is Fisherman's Friend, by Lofthouse's of Lancashire. It is no longer available in the New York area so I have had friends send it back from the Seattle and Vancouver areas. It makes an effective rescue, partly because it only gets used when it is really needed. I would not be surprised if overuse had all sorts of evil side effects. |
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01 Jul 02 - 06:51 PM (#740343) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Liz the Squeak Hey, who needs overuse to have an evil side effect - you really have to be good friends if you use these loathesome, noisome smelly lozenges!!! They've been known to clear rooms! LTS |
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02 Jul 02 - 12:05 PM (#740756) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,dreoilin I swear by Fishermans Friends, being relaxed in a smoke free atmosphere, and water with cider vinegar in it. Don't be constantly clearing your throat - its very hard on the vocal cords. Sing standing up and dont force it! Have fun Slán |
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02 Jul 02 - 12:39 PM (#740767) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: GUEST,JohnB I use Fishermans Friends when I need to, it depends on how much screaming and shouting I have been doing with the morris side first. I used to gargle with Southern Comfort years ago, before every concert. Johnny Collins uses water with Roses Lime Juice Cordial in it, it's probably really good for sea shanties :} On the liquorice theme, Johnny also developed a drink he calls "Pernocide" it is a shot of Pernod with a bottle of Cider in it. It is probably better for you after singing. JohnB |
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02 Jul 02 - 12:41 PM (#740769) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Paul Mitchell Thanks again people. This is why I come here! I'd forgotten about Fishermans Friends, I discovered them when in school musicals... Could be fun to see if they still wor. As for time between sets, that remains to be seen. Hopefully at least an hour. I was hoping to be out in the fresh air, not talking much, gently sipping some beer. |
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03 Jul 02 - 11:08 AM (#741447) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Hamish Personally, I avoid anything fizzy, 'cos burping's not very audience friendly. Oh, yes, and know which key each song should be in, and sing in that key. And don't sing too loud. In fact, if you sing a little bit more quietly, an audience will often be that much more attentive. Know your material, which will help you to relax. And most of the above re: water, no booze, etc. Good luck! |
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03 Jul 02 - 11:26 AM (#741458) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: My guru always said I must admit, I thought it was OK to use 'Airwaves' (menthol chewing gum)but it sounds like this is a real no-no...... Of course it's really difficult keeping the gum in your mouth while you're singing.... |
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03 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM (#741460) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: EBarnacle1 Thread creep Mudlark, if you can deal with old age/convalescent homes, not only are you a performer, but you deserve a medal. I have found an effective technique with those audiences is to switch from songs to a story. Sometimes they get so interactive that that is the rest of my set because they want to talk to you. Remember that your job is to meet their needs, not necessarily to fulfil your own agenda. |
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03 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM (#741463) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: EBarnacle1 Thread creep Mudlark, if you can deal with old age/convalescent homes, not only are you a performer, but you deserve a medal. I have found an effective technique with those audiences is to switch from songs to a story. Sometimes they get so interactive that that is the rest of my set because they want to talk to you. Remember that your job is to meet their needs, not necessarily to fulfil your own agenda. |
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03 Jul 02 - 12:26 PM (#741523) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Alice I second everything Phillip wrote. DON'T use any lozenges or sprays that will numb your throat or are so strong that they can affect your vocal cords. Save the Fisherman's Friend and other strong lozenges for when you have a cold or flu. DON't use them before a performance or as a singing aid. Keep with what Phillip recommended - plain water, no acids in it (like fruit or vinegar) and don't eat a big meal before you go on. Start warming up your voice before the performance. Begin by singing in the shower, then keep gently singing scales from the bottom of your range to the top of your range while you are driving to the gig. When you are there, get a glass of water to have nearby for sipping when you feel dry. Wait to drink anything stronger for AFTER your performance.
Check out the mega-thread I collected called "Threads on the singing voice". Lots of info there.
Have Fun. Alice |
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03 Jul 02 - 03:44 PM (#741701) Subject: RE: Avoiding a sore throat.... From: Ferrara I'm not man enough to use Fisherman's Friends, I don't think I have ever finished one. But my local pharmacy carries "Throat Discs" Throat Lozenges which are a nice compromise. Distributed by Monticello Drug Co., Jacksonville, Florida 32204 (I checked the box.) They contain licorice powder/extract, anise oil, peppermint oil and various other stuff. I never use more than 2 in an evening but they are very soothing and taste somewhat better than FF. Quite low in sugar but not sugar free. I have a problem with tension-related soreness and they seem to help that. I have been able to sing much more freely, for longer times, since I discovered them. They're not common even in the U.S. though. Rita |