|
05 Jul 02 - 02:06 AM (#742674) Subject: On Gravestones and burial From: GUEST,Jenny Fitz - guest In the Silly Sisters rendition of "How should I your True Love Know" (I'm not sure it is called that!) the lyrics are "At his head a grass green turf, at his heels a stone" Now why is the stone at his feet? Was this a custom, or did it mark someone who committed suicide, or some other crime, or was disapproved of in some way? Maybe he wasn't buried in a graveyard at all? Hmm .. any death experts there? and while I'm at it, why do so many judges, and kings when they are acting in a judgemental capacity, look over their left shoulders? Are the relatives of the accused waiting to act on a bad call? Ha! Any ideas? Many thanks, yours curiously Jenny Fitzgibbon, Qld Oz |
|
05 Jul 02 - 02:36 AM (#742689) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: Liz the Squeak There are many graves with both head and foot stones, logically that's how they became known as headstones, and I've come across at least 2 with the details on the foot stone, rather than the head. It might have been done to confuse grave robbers, although stones were usually left until the ground had settled a while.... Wandering round churchyards (in search of family members, genealogy) you see all manner of shape and size and style. Maybe he just wanted to be different and at least it would make him conspicuous to someone who was looking for it.. (Sorry, it's early, I'm still in BS mode!) LTS |
|
05 Jul 02 - 04:44 AM (#742727) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: masato sakurai HOW SHOULD I YOUR TRUE LOVE KNOW is in the DT. Ophelia sings this in Hamlet.
From: Hamlet (Act IV, Scene 5), as a reference.
Re-enter HORATIO, with OPHELIA
OPHELIA
QUEEN GERTRUDE
OPHELIA
How should I your true love know
QUEEN GERTRUDE
Alas, sweet lady, what imports this song?
OPHELIA
He is dead and gone, lady,
QUEEN GERTRUDE
Nay, but, Ophelia,--
OPHELIA
White his shroud as the mountain snow,--
Enter KING CLAUDIUS
QUEEN GERTRUDE
OPHELIA
Larded with sweet flowers
KING CLAUDIUS
OPHELIA ~Masato
|
|
05 Jul 02 - 05:38 AM (#742749) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: Nigel Parsons The 'Left shoulder' part of the question; they could be on watch for the devil or temptation. It is traditional, if salt is spilt, to throw some over your left shoulder, into the eye of the devil. Nigel. |
|
05 Jul 02 - 07:07 AM (#742784) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: Hecate I'd heard (can't recall the source) that if a judge or the like 'looks over his left shoulder' its to indicate that he can't speak freely, he's being watched, that its a set up - makes particular sense when applied to "Geordie". If anyone can confirm/deny this, that would be very interesting. |
|
05 Jul 02 - 12:15 PM (#742920) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: JohnInKansas Re cemetary foot markers - The tradition that it's "bad karma" to step on someones grave is a long standing one, and in the typical old cemetary it could be difficult to tell exactly where the grave was. At least in my part of the country, it was common some years ago to place a foot marker, simply so that people could "respect one's final resting place." Additionally, a well-to-do family might put curbing of one sort or another, or even a fence, around a "family plot" where several members of the family were buried. Foot stones, curbings, and fences were fairly common until about the beginning of the 1950's, when maintenance costs (doesn't everything hinge on money?) caused a trend to prohibiting them on new burials, and eventually to removal of the ones that were already in place. There are few cemetaries left in my vicinity that still have any. I do know of a couple of places where beautiful family plot wrought iron fences were replaced with "boundary markers" more or less flush with the ground, but even those may have been removed since I last visited them some years ago. Most "local" cemetaries operate on very limited budgets, and it's much easier to keep the grass trimmed if you can just run a mower over everything. The most extreme exemplars are a few very large "commercial" cemetaries that require that even headstones be "flush" (usually no more than 3 inches above the ground). Re the look over the left shoulder - As a small child, I was told that the judge should look to see if the devil was there before giving his decision. Another source explained that he should cast a stern look to "warn the devil away," and if he saw the devil he should then look upward to see if god and the angels were there to aid his decision. I've never seen a judge do either, but I recall the comment of one uncle who said "If he's worried about the divil he'd best throw a stern glance at the lawyers." John |
|
07 Jul 02 - 01:47 AM (#743647) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: GUEST,jenny Fitz Thanks Guys I had forgotten about the salt over the shoulder thing and it makes sense to be to do with the devil. Jenny Fitzgibbon |
|
07 Jul 02 - 11:32 AM (#743826) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: Susan from California You might check out the Asosciation for Gravestone Studies website www.gravestonestudies.org They are a great source for all kinds of gravestone questions. |
|
07 Jul 02 - 11:45 AM (#743833) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: Lyrical Lady I have just read..somewhere!!?... that back in the day when there were no grave stones ...ie: the frontier... that stones were placed at the foot of the grave to signify gender. For instance, if Mr. and Mrs. Jones died of the fever than his grave would be marked with a foot stone. I suppose things are different where ever you go. LL |
|
07 Jul 02 - 11:50 AM (#743835) Subject: RE: Help: On Gravestones and burial From: Coyote In the kaballistic tradition, there are two pillars or paths, the left hand path and the right hand path. The left hand path is, to oversimplify, the path of the senses and the unconscious, and the right hand path is the path of consciousness and ratonality. In this tradition the path of the devil or satan is the left hand path. There are many traditions that spring out of this. Left handedness was considered very bad in many cultures. Even in our own culture children, up to thirty or forty years ago, were forcibly made to use their right hands to write, etc. Left still has connotation of evil, and this is exploited subtly by equating "left-leaning" politicans with evil and etc. Isn't culture a marvelous thing. When you start to pick at one little thread in the tapestry of a culture, soon the whole thing begins to come apart, exposing the warp and the woof of our beliefs and traditions. the Coyote |