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13 May 98 - 04:24 AM (#28132) Subject: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: steve t Like Joe said, I like to minimize dialect when singing songs, but I love this line so much: An' a' the bricht chaulmers are eerie That I can't leave it out of Banks of Sicily. I think this means all the bright combers are eerie. Am I close? |
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13 May 98 - 06:28 AM (#28139) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Songbird I believe this to mean :- "and all the bright charmers are cheery " Why not e mail Dick Gaughan at his site see links page |
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13 May 98 - 09:00 AM (#28146) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Ferrara Actually, Steve, I think you may have it right. Never thought of "chaumers" as combers or waves. Here's another guess: translate "chaumers" (that's the spelling I got from Ed Miller, and it's the way Dick Gaughan spells it) as "charmers." Translate "eerie" as "uneasy, disturbed, unhappy." The bright charmers would be the Sicilian ladies who have entertained the Scots for love and money during their stay. This may be what Ed told me it meant, but don't count on that, my memory has a few bad sectors. |
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13 May 98 - 04:59 PM (#28207) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Pete M I really ought to defer to Murray, but for my two pennorth, I go along with Ferrera. Eerie is defined in the OED as "superstitiously timid, strange, wierd". Not a bad description of the way a teenage girl might feel as the love of her life leaves on a mission that she must know he is unlikely to return from, whatever the outscome. At least that's the way I've always understood it. By the way Steve, how do you translate the rest? there are so many words that have no direct standard english equivalent, and even if they do, how do you maintain the scansion? Pete M |
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13 May 98 - 10:55 PM (#28234) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Cuilionn I'm thinkin' the waird "chaumers" (oor "chaulmers") is Braid Scots for the Sassunach/English waird "chambers." I've seen ither similer occurances o' sic a usage. Sae th' singer micht be discussin' the deserted buildings alang th' watter, an' the fact that, e'en wi' licht aroond 'em, there's a dreadfu' feelin cam o'er the plaice. There...see if ye can mak oot that explanation...sorry tae complicate this, but after twa year o' typin naethin' but terrible Braid Scots in a weekly "Celtic Culture Chat" on AOL, my mind is fair fettled. Guid luck, --Cuilionn
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14 May 98 - 01:42 AM (#28252) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: steve t Wow. What a beautiful bunch of sounds. Me? I should know about this song? I got bricht chaulmers wrong folks. But anyway, here is a partial translation found on USENET. I found this on dejanews From: abbysale@digital.net (Abby Sale) Date: 1995/09/04
Part of difficulty to find is the various titles Seumas Mor MacEanruig
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14 May 98 - 01:47 AM (#28253) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: steve t Going through that again, i see that it's not a translation at all -- it's just some alternate "accepted" lyrics for the more difficult to understand dialect. Sad, eh, that it's not the weather conditions on the water that are eerie. I do so love images of water. Oh well. Still, a wonderful, wonderful song. |
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14 May 98 - 05:05 AM (#28268) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Pete M Cuilionn, I think youre drawing a long bow there. With the weather "unco' and grey" its not likely that there are any bright rooms / chambers about. Just a couple of comments on the "translations" swaddies/squaddies aka PBI is a general term for other ranks (equivalent to the US term "grunt"). Its unlikely that the drummies webbing would have been leather, blancoed canvas much more likely. Another bit of info I remember reading, but can't lay my hand on the reference at the moment, that the 51st were piped ashore at Salerno, the pipe major playing on an LST and broadcast over the ships tannoy. Highly doubtful if he was wearing white webbing at the time though! Pete M |
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14 May 98 - 08:25 AM (#28277) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Bob Schwarer A rather nice version of this song is on "Songs of the Tall Ships" by The Starboard List. Some the the words are changed slightly, but it follows the above text nicely. I think it is also available on a CD of two Starboard List LPs. Bob S. |
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14 May 98 - 01:44 PM (#28327) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Cuilionn Regardin' th' comment frae Pete M., I'm feelin' compelled tae mak a wee response. Here's the queried snippit o' sang: "Then doon the stair and line the waterside Wait your turn the ferry's awa' The doon the stair and line the waterside A' the bricht chaulmers are eerie" Hae ye ne'er sat waitin' at the quayside oor dock for the boat whae's gang awa'? I grew up on a wee isle mysel', an' there's naethin' like a dark, damp nicht tae mak ye ponder th' dreyin' o' yer ain wierd (The endurin' o' your own fate, for the Sassunachs). Ye sit waitin' wi' th' watter drizzlin' doon aroond ye, an' ye luik back to'ards th' wee hooses aboon the quay, an' the glintin' glimmerin' licht frae sic "bricht chaulmers" tells ye muckle mair than the fact o' folk bein' ben the hoose. Ye must gae, soon eno' intae th' mirk, leavin' land an' licht behind ye. Sae the wee glimmerin' lichts are a "bricht sadness" tae ye, a promise o' a' the warm fires an' guid folk an' comfort ye're leavin' behind. Och, I'm no' daein' justice tae th' meanin' o' it, but I'm tellin ye: 'tis TRUE. Alricht...sorry tae be sic a rantin' lassie. I'll try tae haud my wheesht th' noo. --Cuilionn |
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14 May 98 - 02:27 PM (#28332) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Bert Cuillionn, at last it makes sense. Bert. |
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14 May 98 - 03:52 PM (#28339) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Frank in the swamps Cuilionn, Dinnae haud yer wheesht lass! Yer screivins' braw. Av been fremmit maist o ma life and dinnae hae the mou fer the leid, but it's aye tunefu tae ma lugs. Please, please, please, blether awa! Frank (up tae his oxters in crocs) i.t.s. |
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14 May 98 - 04:15 PM (#28343) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Pete M Cuilionn, its sounds guy fine tae me. I thocht frae ye'er fust wee tale that ye didnae ken, ye were quo'ing frae some ither ..."I'm *thinkin'* the waird "chaumers" (oor "chaulmers") is Braid Scots for the Sassunach/English waird "chambers." I've *seen ither similer occurances o' sic a usage*...." (My emphasis) sae blather awa lassie but be precise. . One other note (I haven't got Frank ITS's patience to continue translating) "shaw" isn't a phonetic spelling of "shore" as mentioned above, its a wood or thicket: from the Old English scaga (OE was a precursor of both Lowland Scots, and via Middle English, modern usage) |
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14 May 98 - 04:16 PM (#28344) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Pete M Sorry, forgot to sign the above I was being pestered by son for access to the PC and tried to rush. Pete M |
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14 May 98 - 05:24 PM (#28356) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Barry Finn Cuilionn, don't know at all about the translation, not even sure about what you're saying, but I sat many a night pier side, after closing the bar, and swiming out into the Lahina Roadstead (only 2 rowboats for 3 people, last one heading home swam), to my bunk, all the while keeping a weather eye out for the shark & hoping all the while for the porpoise. I'd get about half way to the boat (1/8 mile), & things would start to get very erie, the crash of the breakers behind me & dead silent & calm in front, your image of waiting for a boat at night is erie tome too. Barry |
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16 May 98 - 02:32 AM (#28486) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Murray [a relative of the Duke of Athol] Cuilionn has it right, and so has Pete (shaw = thicket, grove). Chaumers = chambers, rooms, and the lad is either saying that the bright rooms are making him sad (to be leaving) or he's fed up with the brightness. Dinna ye think?? Weel, gin ye jalouse I'm no that richt i the heid or whit, jist tell me to gang wheech doon the cludgie, an I'll say nae mair. |
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16 May 98 - 04:47 PM (#28539) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: steve t Cuilionn, where else can we find your writing? It's beautiful (at least in small bursts). |
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18 May 98 - 09:26 PM (#28626) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Cuilionn Weel, I'm richt flatterit, tae be sure... Th' trowth o' 't is that I startit wrichtin' in Braid Scots twa year agae amang th' guid folk o' th' AOL Celtic Chat. I hadnae but a wee buik o' Burns wi' a glossarie tae wairk wi', but I've since discoverit that Braid Scots is nae jist a dialect, but a language i' its ain richt an' wairth savin'. I'm a student o' Scots Gaelic as weel, but I dearly lo'e baith o' th' Mither Tongues! Luik aroond th' Scottish websites...there's ain "Scots Guidbuik" wi' a hantle o' guid wrichtin'. Th' Celtic chat has dwindlit tae a wee remnant o' th' faithfu', but if ony o' ye wuid care tae see mair Scots or try yer ain hand at it, we'd welcome ye! It's a merry gatherin' tae be sure, an' we welcome experts an' amatuers o' a' kinds. Jyne us Thursday nichts aroond 9:00-11:00 EST in a private ruim ca'd "craic". An' If I'm nae feshin' ye wi' my bit a blather, then I'll venture a bit mair o' 't noo an' then. Muckle thanks, --Cuilionn |
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14 Nov 02 - 10:57 PM (#826531) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Maryrrf I'm refreshing this thread in the hopes that more light can be shed on "bricht chaumers are eerie" and other hard to understand lines in this song - such as "he canna be seen for his webbin' ave" etc. I love the song and want to sing it - have kind of got it phonetically but I don't want to sing the words without knowing the meaning. |
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14 Nov 02 - 11:02 PM (#826533) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Malcolm Douglas See also the more recent discussion, Word meanings in Banks Of Sicily |
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15 Nov 02 - 09:10 AM (#826826) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Maryrrf Thank you, Malcolm, the thread you pointed out was very helpful. I must have missed it in the search I did. You're the best! |
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15 Nov 02 - 10:50 AM (#826907) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Fifer One small comment . the Pipe Major, and the Drum Major in a Scootish pipe band are frequently known as the Pipie, and the Drummie. This is a richt braw song, and the mair ye ken aboot its meaning, the better it gets |
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14 Apr 04 - 02:39 PM (#1161632) Subject: Silicy From: GUEST,Anton I don't understand a lot of this song, could anyone do a little translation into English? |
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14 Apr 04 - 03:53 PM (#1161701) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Megan L I spent a wheen oh time in a peedie fishin village, I weel mind on the feelin when aye boatie wis ower late in makin hame. there was a strange wheesht fell ower a thing like the hale toon wis haudin its breath, even when fowk met there wis a gey unnattural hush aboot the place. |
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14 Apr 04 - 05:12 PM (#1161763) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: CET The drummie is "beezed up for a photy" (buffed up for a photograph) and is therefore wearing his best blancoed webbing (yes, not leather); the piper playing on the LST at Salerno was probably battledress and helmet like the assault troops. Charmion (didn't bother to reset Edmund's cookie) |
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14 Apr 04 - 05:22 PM (#1161770) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Stewie Below is a link to a useful online reference tool. However, putting in 'chaumer' or 'chaulmer' yields no result. Dictionary of The Scots Language. --Stewie. |
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14 Apr 04 - 05:31 PM (#1161775) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Stewie My apologies. I did not enter the word and take 'FULL ENTRY' option. When you do this with 'chaumer', you get 45 hits, reinforcing the 'chamber', 'room' etc meaning suggested by some above in this thread. --Stewie. |
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15 Apr 04 - 06:09 AM (#1162202) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,ian woodward Chambers Scots Dictionary (W & R Chambers, Edinburgh - I have the 1977 edition) gives "Chaumer" as "chamber" and cross-refers to "Chalmer" and "Chamber". For the former (Chalmer), it gives : "a room, chamber; an upper room; a bedroom; ... " and goes on to mention a police-court or a magistrate's room, neither of which is relevant here. For the latter (Chamber), it gives : "any upper room; a bedroom; .." and again mentions the police court. There are related words. "Chalmer-chield" is "a valet or groom of the chambers". A "Chalmerie" is "a small chamber". A "Chalmer o' deis" is "a parlour; the best bedroom". Also, "Chamer" is defined as "a chamber" Being one of Chambers' dictionaries, you would think they'd get this is one word they would get right. The poem appeared in "Modern Folk Ballads" (Studio Vista "Pocket Poets" series, London, 1966) and a number of Scots words are explained. It reads, "chaulmers = rooms". What makes this even more compelling is that the ballads were selected by Charles Causley, who wrote a short introduction to the book. In this introduction, he devotes a paragraph to this particular ballad. Causley writes, "Many versions of 'Farewell to Sicily' still circulate, and in a letter to me the author refers to the one he 'usuually' now sings" and goes on to explain the importance of the word "usually" in the context of ballads evolving over time. At the end of the paragraph, Causley adds in parenthesis : "(I have included, at the author's request, an early version of the 'Sicily' ballad, though again with some small alterations by him.)". I assume that, as Hamish Henderson had such a close involvement in the inclusion of this ballad in the book, he would have been content with the "chaulmers = rooms" note. |
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22 Dec 04 - 04:59 PM (#1363528) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,GUEST, Kurt Pedersen It's been very interesting to read this thread. I've loved the song since I first heard it with the McCalmans nearing on 30 years ago. Always intrigued by a lot of the words I've never doubted the mood and meaning of the song. If indeed "Chaulmers" means rooms, could it be referring to ballrooms or maybe brothels, where business certainly would be slow after the leaving of the soldiers? Just a thought. Kurt |
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06 Jun 07 - 03:48 PM (#2070180) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,Mark LeBel subject: translation of "and a' the bricht chaulmers [chaumers]" I think the author poignantly contrasts the brighly painted, yet, given the broad context, diminutive and insignificant "dwellings" or "cottages"(not "chambers")of Sicily -- broad Scot for 'cottage' or 'dwelling'; derived from the French "chaumiere" for the same? -- which appear "eerily bright" against the pervading literal and metaphorical dark skies in these perilous and wearying times for the advancing Scottish troops who, having banged the Germans into retreating across the straight of Messina, are now readying to cross in pursuit of that formidable ennemy. Mark LeBel California |
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06 Jun 07 - 10:15 PM (#2070435) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Bonecruncher From "The Cruel Wars" compiled by Karl Dallas:- ......He (Hamish Henderson) wrote this wry farewell to the charms and charmers of Sicily to the tune of "Farewell To The Creeks".... Hope this helps. Colyn. |
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07 Jun 07 - 04:13 AM (#2070544) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: John MacKenzie Bright chambers i.e. well lit rooms/bars, was always my interpretation. G. |
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07 Jun 07 - 05:31 AM (#2070581) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,oggie I heard Henderson give an explanation of the writing of this song many years ago. As he told it, it was written on the quayside as the trops were emberking for the invasion of Italy and as he was composing the words the Pipes started playing "Farewell to the Creeks" and he picked that up as the rhythm of the poem. It is also worth noting that the army involved was the core of that army that had fought and died from Crete into North Africa and then back and forth during the desert war. They were battle hardened and knew full well what awaited them on landing and for many this time in Sicilly would be their last. All the best Steve |
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07 Jun 07 - 11:10 AM (#2070757) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Scotus I always understood 'chaumer' as having the same meaning as a 'bothy' - in other words a stone farm building built to accommodate the unmarried male farmworkers. I also understand that this word was more common than bothy in the NE of Scotland, and that it derives from the French 'chambre' (bedroom). Scots has many words originating in French. Jack |
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07 Jun 07 - 11:31 AM (#2070775) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Megan L Oor war memorial is a peedie bit unusual as its a wifie sittin wie her hied in her haun starin intae space as though tryin tae see her man ane last time in the bricht glow o the fire. theres mony a lass his lichted a room in the hoose tae try an flecht awa the fear while she waits fur news o her man. But the brichtest chaumer is a gey sorrofu place when yer left yer lane. |
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07 Jun 07 - 01:44 PM (#2070853) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,Rumncoke The memorial is perhaps also echoing how the ones with the further seeing eye can know of the fate of those far away - seeing it in the embers of a dying fire, or sometimes in the surface of standing water as the wind moves it. Maybe the 'fey pipie' is recollecting past battles and seeing in his mind's eye men long gone... My mother's mother knew her first husband was shot and killed at the Somme in the Great War, as she heard the shot as she lay in bed - and she even knew where he was hit which put the wind up the friends who'd been with him, who came to pay their respects. She was always a bit fey - at her old house the door to the living room used to open of its own accord at about twenty five past four in the afternoon. It was 'Old Horben' - a deceased lodger who, when alive, would arrive to wind up the clock on the mantlepiece and sit down - with his flat cap and work clothes on to eat his cooked tea. And, yes, when he died the clock ran down and never went again. I was thinking - isn't Sicily one of those places where the housen are painted white? Under grey skies it is often surprising how a white building will seem to almost glow against the hillside. I have seen that in Northern England when walking in the Pennines. One white painted building is visible from far further off than brick or even light coloured stone houses. |
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31 Jan 14 - 01:11 PM (#3597087) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,Gordon Cheyne When I was a wee loon in Kennethmont, the "chaulmer" was where the farm servants slept, an a room above the stable. I assume it was derived from "chamber" |
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31 Jan 14 - 03:53 PM (#3597138) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST The word "eerie", as used by Burns,Scott,Hogg, Gault, Henderson and yours truly has a different meaning in Scots from that given in the O.E.D. Kinraddie o Kinraddie and the ferm toon o Blawwearie A tale weel telt o days that are gane And it maks me dowie and eerie |
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31 Jan 14 - 04:24 PM (#3597144) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,highlandman at work I love this song, but when I think of singing it (other than to myself) it turns in my mind's ear into a Smothers Brothers routine -- you know, where you stop every other line to argue over the meaning of the unfamiliar words. And since that would be an utterly heinous thing to do to this wonderful lyric, the song remains (by me at least) unsung. Frustrating, though. -Glenn |
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31 Jan 14 - 05:27 PM (#3597159) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: Keith A of Hertford More discussion here. thread.cfm?threadid=44800&messages=81 |
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31 Jan 14 - 07:01 PM (#3597189) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST Chaume is French for thatch, a chaumière is a thatched cottage, and in particular the bedroom under the thatch. |
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01 Feb 14 - 06:32 AM (#3597253) Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers From: GUEST,gutcher "There's nae hame can smoor the wiles o ye" In the days when we had peat fires at home the last chore at night was to cover the burning peat with peat comb [ie.] peat dust, this was called smooring. In the morning the hand held bellows would be applied and the fire brought to life, thus a peat fire was never allowed to go out. |