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31 Jul 02 - 02:53 AM (#757381) Subject: Lyr Add: AR LAN Y MÔR From: songs2play An Welsh 'Catters out there with the chords to Ar Lan Y Mor - especially 3rd line. It's a song I remember singing in school in Treorchy (Rhondda), and recently I've heard it on the radio. I managed to get the lyrics from Max Boyce's web site, and I think I remember the tune, but memory has a funny way of playing tricks on you. Ar lan y môr mae rhosys chochion Ar lan y môr mae lilis gwynion Ar lan y môr mae 'nghariad inne Yn cysgu'r nos a choddi'r bore. Ar lan y môr mae carreg wastad Lle bum yn siarad gair âm cariad Oddeutu hon fe dyf y lili Ac ambell sbrigyn o rosmari. Llawn yw'r môr o swnd a chegryn Llawn yw'r wy o wyn a melyn Llawn yw'r coed o ddail a blode Llawn o gariad merch wyf inne. Diolch yn fawr. |
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31 Jul 02 - 04:59 AM (#757407) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Ar Lan y Môr is one of those songs which has various verses, depending on personal preference. Also, even in the most-sung verses, the folk process creates minor variations. Your three are pretty much part of the standard 'kit'
Ar lan y môr mae rhosys chochion Note: one 'd' in 'chodi'
Ar lan y môr mae carreg wastad I think this might be Max's version, although I think a lot of us sing "O amgylch hon mae teim yn tyfu" for the third line. Also note the correction in line 2 (â'm).
Llawn yw'r môr o swnd a chegryn Again, I think a lot sing "Llawn iawn" at the beginning of each line here, and "llawn iawn o gariad ydwyf inne" for the last line. (But I'm working from memory.) There's an historical reason why I prefer doing this (as well as the argument for keeping the pattern of previous verses); one ethnomusicologist has suggested a connection between the several Welsh songs starting with a 4 or 5 single-note opening, with the old-time Welsh preaching 'hwyl'. Another two verses which are commonly sung are:
Ar lan y môr mae cerrig gleision
Mor hardd yw'r haul yn codi'r bore, sian
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31 Jul 02 - 05:30 AM (#757419) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Sorry, I should have added a couple of clickies: Click here for the National Library verses, and click here for the tune ... except, I don't like the drone. Also, whoever's done the tune has shied away in the first three lines from the declaritive 4 note opening. A pity, to my way of thinking but I guess some people think they're monotonous (literally, they are, I suppose). sian
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01 Aug 02 - 05:37 AM (#757990) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Nigel Parsons Siân: In English? the only version I see on the net appears to mangle the translation (whilst keeping some of the 'feel') It also manages to put 4 English verses to 3 Welsh ???. A literal translation would be fine. The one on the net starts each line (V1) with "Beside The Sea". That seems a good start, although "On the sea shore" is equally accurate, and keeps almost all the sound, especially if there is an intention to rhyme half lines (i.e. eight line verses rather than 4 longer lines). The version I found is at This site HWYL/CHEERS Nigel |
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01 Aug 02 - 06:37 AM (#758002) Subject: Lyr Add: AR LAN Y MÔR From: sian, west wales What took you so long, Nigel? (Says she who still hasn't worked out the abc for Can y Melinydd!) There may well be a singable translation for Ar Lan y Môr; I can ask Phyllis but I doubt if I'll be able to dig anything up in the next fortnight. We're all in a sweat getting ready for the National next week and we'll be recovering the week thereafter. (Me, in Cork.) Isn't there an Oxford Book of Welsh Poetry (in translation) or something? I wonder if this would be there, under 'Anon'?
Ar lan y môr mae rhosys chochion
On the seashore are red roses
Ar lan y môr mae carreg wastad
On the seashore there is a flat/level rock
Llawn iawn yw'r môr o swnd a chegryn
So (lit.: very) full is the sea of sand and seashell
Ar lan y môr mae cerrig gleision
On the seashore there are blue/grey stones
Mor hardd yw'r haul yn codi'r bore,
So lovely is the sun rising in the morning ** I just realized that I don't have a clue how blodau'r meibion should be translated. Lit: the flowers of the sons. I'll have to find out, but there are two possibilities that come to mind. 1. There is a flower with that colloquial name. 2. There are numerous Welsh songs which refer to blodau'r perth/llwyn/ et al., lit. flowers of the bush/hedge, or blodau Mis Mai - flowers of May. These are in actual fact referring to illegitimate children ... ie. the aftermath of the sap rising in spring and a quick roll behind the hedge. (I guess there weren't many bike sheds around then.) Re: that last verse, I've never been keen on it as it names someone, albeit Elin (which is a name often used more in the abstract than referring to a specific person). Up to that point, it's a nice general love song. And there's a bit of a problem, to my ear, with "On the seashore" as there would be too much emphasis on the "the". "Beside the sea" works better in that sense, except for the echo of "By the sea, by the sea by the beautiful sea!" I'm not sure if it is, in actual fact, a song which translates well into English - sounds a bit naff. Perhaps an adaptation more than translation... ? sian
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01 Aug 02 - 06:58 AM (#758006) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Mary Humphreys I have always sung - ' blodau meillion ' which in English is clover flowers. I don't know whether botanically this is a frequent occurrence in the area from which the song was collected, but they are very numerous near many of the North Welsh beaches, particularly Anglesey. |
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01 Aug 02 - 07:19 AM (#758011) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Now that makes sense, Mary. sian |
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01 Aug 02 - 12:25 PM (#758191) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Mary Humphreys I also sing 'swnd a chregyn' rather than 'swnd a chegryn' as in sand & shells - I haven't heard 'chegryn' used in my part of Wales - though I did leave it an awful long time ago and memory plays tricks.... |
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01 Aug 02 - 03:26 PM (#758298) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Duh ... sorry - typo. Chregyn (ie. cregyn) it should be! I should have a live-in proof reader. sian |
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02 Aug 02 - 08:39 AM (#758681) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Nigel Parsons Sian: "And there's a bit of a problem, to my ear, with "On the seashore" as there would be too much emphasis on the "the". "Beside the sea" works better in that sense, except for the echo of "By the sea, by the sea by the beautiful sea!" " "Along the shore" might do it, and keep the rhyme and scansion. Any other rhyming is a little dubious as so much of it rhymes ****ion with ****ion. This is the equivalent of rhyming ***ing with ***ing, and should make things simpler except for the need to translate 5 syllables as 5 syllables (If keeping the feel of the repetative first half line). That would add a greater degree of difficulty to the attempt. I'll see how it goes, so this might be my only comment on the matter Nigel |
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30 Sep 03 - 06:30 AM (#1026643) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales First: in case anyone wonders, I've been reviving these Welsh threads because I've just been on the Welsh Folk Song Society weekend and have picked up some bits of info on Ar Lan y Mor and Hela'r Sgwarnog. Moving on then ... a couple of interesting bits of info on Ar Lan y Mor ... Apparently the 'carreg wastad' is a grave stone ( ! ) and the thyme and rosemary hearken to herbs that were placed in or around coffins. Re: blodau'r meibion, this means 'the best - ie. the flower - of all young men'. Blodau'r merched (the flower of all girls/women) also appears in folk songs. sian |
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30 Sep 03 - 01:23 PM (#1026728) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Mary Humphreys Now Siân, that is interesting! But why were the graves of all the young men near the sea-side? Does it refer to any particular time in history? This song seems to be in two parts - the first verse about the lover who is compared to beautiful flowers and who lives next to the sea & gets up in the morning & goes to sleep at night, and then the reference to the gravestone & the herbs of remembrance. There may be some verses yet to be found which link these threads. I usually put in a floating verse about the egg , the sea & the forest being full of various attributes.But it has no real 'home' in the song, except to keep the tune going - that's because the song is so short anyhow. Anyone out there with other ideas? Mary |
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30 Sep 03 - 06:20 PM (#1026795) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: BanjoRay I often used to rock-climb on a cliff in the Llanberis Pass called Carreg Wastad. If I'd known it meant gravestone, It would probably have scared me off! Excellent discussion, by the way. Cheers Ray |
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01 Oct 03 - 05:13 AM (#1027035) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Mary, the song is firmly in the penillion tradition so it's likely to have as many floating verses as any other kind. If they get sandwiched between what *might* have been original verses, I suppose that's no surprise. As we've just now shown, meanings get lossed with time so continuity can get a bit woolly. I don't think there's any suggestion that all young men were buried by the sea. The fact that 'blodau' is plural, doesn't (apparently!) mean that it's referring to a group of men - blodau'r meibion is the one person, or that's how it's been explained to me. (Similarly, if you know Titrwm Tatrwm, one verse ends "Mi gofleidiwn flodau'r rhos, pe byddwn agos ati." "I would embrace the Flowers of the Moorland if I were but close to her.") Re: the sea, I guess the 'voice' of the song is a coastal dweller so the song is from that perspective. Something in the back of my head seems to say that this was an Anglesey song ... but I'd need to check on that. Hard to get away from the sea there! Banj - I think your Carreg Wastad was probably just a thumping big flat stone, or plateau, yes? BTW - Mered DID remember you! Was really chuffed that you remembered the show! sian |
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01 Oct 03 - 11:51 AM (#1027308) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: BanjoRay Sian - yes, My Carreg Wastad is a large vertical cliff of stone, a few hundred feet wide by maybe 150 feet high. You could mistake it for a gravestone if you saw it from 5 miles away, which you can't because Snowdon's in the way. My regards to Mered! Cheers Ray |
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02 Oct 03 - 08:34 AM (#1027880) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,andrew Interesting discussion thanks all. I've been singing it for many a year now and it's good to learn more about it, my Welsh being basic only. I learnt it off an Ar Log LP and am pretty sure the sleeve notes said it was from Anglesey. Did you manage to confirm that Sian. Hope its right cos thats what I always told people, but although my parents were living in Anglesey at the time I never dared singing it there as being half Welsh and half Saesneg I dont think they would have approved of my rendition ! It went down well in Brittany though. Andrew |
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02 Oct 03 - 08:40 AM (#1027886) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales I've written myself a note on the back of my hand: I'll check tonight and get back to you tomorrow. sian |
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08 Oct 03 - 01:23 PM (#1031859) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Andrew I will have to stop posting in threads. This was an interesting one but as soon as I joined in it died. Was it something that I said ? Andrew |
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08 Oct 03 - 04:47 PM (#1031954) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales No - it was probably me. I was supposed to check on where the tune was first collected ... and I haven't found it! Found a reference to the less well-known tune - that one was taken down in Pembrokehire - but I still have Anglesey in the back of my mind for the one you know. If I find out, I'll let you know. sian |
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09 Oct 03 - 07:55 AM (#1032330) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Andrew Thanks Sian. I'll be interested in anything you do find out. Andrew |
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09 Oct 03 - 01:35 PM (#1032550) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Mary Humphreys Siân and Andrew, Have either of you got the music for the Anglesey version? I think the one I learned at school was the Pembrokeshire one, based on what has been said previously. As my Nain was from Aberffraw, I would rather like to learn the Anglesey version. Diolch, Mary |
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10 Oct 03 - 04:20 AM (#1032933) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales I have them both. I'll PM you with my telephone number and we can work something out. sian |
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24 Feb 04 - 08:09 AM (#1122509) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,WelshFoodie Would appreciate someone giving the background and explaining the story of this song. If the Pembrokeshire version is radically different than the (original?) Anglesey version, I would also like to know more about that anomaly. Diolch am bopeth, Sgiwen (Skewen) Ex-Pat. |
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24 Feb 04 - 11:55 AM (#1122644) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: pavane Sgiwen eh? Mrs Pavane is from there. We found a web site with this and many other Welsh songs, (words and MIDI files) but I don't know which version it is. PS if you need a program to tell you what the chords being played in a MIDI file are, I wrote one. You can buy it from Hands-on MIDI, for £12.99, I think. |
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24 Feb 04 - 02:33 PM (#1122757) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: pavane Also, the tunes had English words as well as Welsh, but didn't look like direct transaltions. |
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24 Feb 04 - 02:34 PM (#1122758) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,leeneia You asked for the chords. My Mabsant book has C over the pickup notes - ar lan y C over mor F over rhos C over -ion F over lil C over -ion F over in of "inne" C over nos G7 over cho G over re of "bore" There is dissonance when the D of 'ngariad hits the C of the accompaniment. Fool around with Dm or F to see if you like them better. Or maybe G7. The song is in 4/4 time and the key of C. |
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24 Feb 04 - 02:42 PM (#1122768) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: pavane This is the site I found, in case it is of any use. I belive there are spelling mistakes. My wife tells me "Llawn yw'r môr o swnd a chegryn" should say Chregyn Welsh midi & lyric site |
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24 Feb 04 - 02:43 PM (#1122770) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: pavane But it looks like she is wrong! |
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24 Feb 04 - 02:50 PM (#1122780) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: pavane Nope. Just read the rest of the thread and she was right! |
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25 Oct 09 - 12:23 PM (#2752404) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Ianto Geiriadur y Brifysgol gives the meaning 'prime', 'best', 'choicest' as a second meaning for 'blodau' - yn ei flodau - in his prime, blodau ieuenctid - bloom of youth, blodau dyddiau - prime of life, so I'm inclined to agree that 'blodau'r meibion' could mean 'the best of youth'. Add to this the notion that soft mutation of 'llan' (as well as 'glan') could indicate a graveyard as well a sea-shore, then 'carreg wastad' (especially with the symbolism of rosemary and thyme already mentioned) also falls into place as possibly meaning 'gravestone'. Could 'llan' also refer in a double meaning to 'shore' and 'graveyard', indicating a lament for a sweetheart lost at sea? Prof Bedwyr Lewis Jones has made the point that many of the hundreds of Llan names in Wales originated as 'glan'= river bank or coast, and that the two words merged (both being 'lan' in their mutated forms) as one when Christianity took hold. |
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26 Oct 09 - 04:38 AM (#2752786) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Bedwyr LJ was a friend of my dad's, and he was such a font of information on the language. I hadn't heard about the llan/glan connection but if BLJ says so ... ! For a simple song, Ar Lan y Mor has hidden depth. sian |
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14 Jan 10 - 03:41 PM (#2811992) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Cerys i gunna start this thread again, because i was wondering what the translation for the verse i sing was and none of you have seems to suggest this verse. which is:- Tros y mor y mae fy nghalon Tros y mor y mae f'ochneidion Tros y mor y mae f'anwylyd Sy'n fy meddwl i pob munud. im sorry if i have spelt any of this word, i think this is how you spell all this i was never any good at writing welsh in school, or english for that matter. |
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14 Jan 10 - 03:57 PM (#2812005) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Mary Humphreys I think it is: Across the sea is my heart Across the sea is my ????? Across the sea is my dearest Whom I think of every minute. |
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27 Feb 10 - 09:24 AM (#2851521) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Cerys thank you, i remember someone once telling me that it meant across the sea are my sighs, so im just gunna go with that |
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27 Feb 10 - 10:33 AM (#2851543) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Mary Humphreys Having just checked with a dictionary, sighs is correct! Mary |
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27 Feb 10 - 05:27 PM (#2851818) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Cerys aw thank you very much, i was planning on using the words on an art project im doing at the moment of the seaside, using both the english and welsh words. |
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29 Jul 10 - 07:36 PM (#2954823) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,dongeraldos In the third line of the first verse "Ar lan y môr mae 'nghariad inne", where does the word 'inne' come from? I can't find it in a dictionary. |
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30 Jul 10 - 06:39 AM (#2955045) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: sian, west wales Technically, it's a "suffixed conjunctive pronoun ... to support or emphasise a prefixed or infixed pronoun,"* e.g. fy nghariad innau - my (own) love. In spoken form, the 'fy' is quite often dropped and 'innau' becomes 'inne' in some dialects. The conjunctive form is particularly emphatic (hence my addition of 'own' above). If the preceding word ended in 'f' it would be 'finnau'; or if in a vowel, 'finnau' or 'minnau'. a.k.a. Emphatic Pesonal Pronouns. Thus endeth the lesson ... sian * A Guide to Correct Welsh, Morgan D Jones |
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07 Feb 21 - 02:41 PM (#4092011) Subject: Lyr Req: Ar lan y Mor lyrics please From: Pamber I heard this song some years ago in Wales but would like the lyrics If anyone can help it would be much appreciated (I may have the spelling wrong. I wonder why so little welsh music is sung in folk clubs I guess the language is a problem but surely no more than Gallic and Gaelic. There are so many wonderful welsh tunes |
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07 Feb 21 - 03:03 PM (#4092017) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ar lan y Mor lyrics please From: GUEST,# Here it is and the added bonus is that the lyrics are also posted in both Welsh and English. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMrWnmLDhNM |
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07 Feb 21 - 07:54 PM (#4092061) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: GUEST,Rory This song is often composed of floating verses. Here is another version. 1. Ar lan y môr mae rhosynnau cochion; Ar lan y môr mae liliau gwynion; Ar lan y môr mae nghariad innau, Yn cysgu'r nos a chodi'r bore. 2. Oer yw'r rhew ac oer yw'r eira; Oer yw'r ty heb dân yn y gaeaf; Oer yw'r eglwys heb ddim offeiriad; Oer wyf innau heb fy nghariad. 3. Dacw'r ty a dacw'r talcen Lle ces i nosweithiau llawen; Ar y lloft uwchben y gegin, Gyda'r ferch â rhuban melyn. 4. Mae gen i fuwch â dau gorn arian; Mae gen i fuwch sy'n godro'i hunan; Mae gen i fuwch sy'n llanw'r stwcau Fel mae'r môr yn llanw'r baeau. 5. Ar lan y môr mae carreg wastad, Lle bûm yn siarad gair â'm cariad; O amgylch hon fe dyf y lili Ac ambell gangen o rosmari. 6. Yng nglan y môr mae cerrig gleision; Yng nglan y môr blodau'r meibion; Yng nglan y môr mae pob rhinweddau, Yng nglan y môr mae nghariad innau. 7. Llawn yw'r môr o swnd a chregyn, Llawn yw'r wy o wyn a melyn; Llawn yw'r coed o ddail a blodau, Llawn o gariad merch wyf innau. 1. Down by the sea red roses are blooming; Down by the sea white lilies are gleaming; Down by the sea my true love is dwelling, Sleeping all night, rising up in the morning. 2. Cold is the frost and cold is the blizzard; Cold is the house without fire in the winter; Cold is the church with no priest and no vicar, And cold is my dwelling apart from my lover. 3. Yonder's the house and yonder's the dwelling, Where I have tarried on many an evening, Up in the loft and above the kitchen, Wooing the girl with the yellow hair-ribbon. 4. My cow, she has horns of silver fine; She milks herself with no help of mine. She fill the pail till it holds no more, As the sea fills the bay up to the shore. 5. Down where the sea laps at the flat rock My love and I did wander and talk; All around us grew the white lily, And there were sprigs of rosemary. 6. Down by the shore, blue rocks in the water; Flowers are picked by her son and her daughter; Charms and graces there, beyond telling; Down by the shore my true love's dwelling. 7. Full is the sea of sand and of shell; oh, Full is an egg of white and of yellow; Full is the forest of leaf and of flower, Love for my girl fills me each waking hour. |
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08 Feb 21 - 10:32 AM (#4092129) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Pamber Wow thankyou. I am now much better educated and have a word version. I know the tune and can handle the pronounciation as I (like a lot of other welsh children born in England) am finally getting around to learning welsh at the age of 68!! I didn't realise there was an active welsh contigent on Mudcat but there again I'm new here |
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08 Feb 21 - 10:46 AM (#4092133) Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Ar Lan Y Mor From: Nigel Parsons Pamber: It may seem a lot of responses to your request, But I spotted that there was an earlier discussion, and the helpful "mud elves" combined the two discussions to give you access to what has gone before. Welcome to the Mudcat ;) |