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Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S

12 Aug 02 - 02:38 PM (#763963)
Subject: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: Jim McLean

What came first, Haydn's Surprise Symphony or the Shaker song A Gift to be Simple? There is obviously a similarity. Cheers, Jim Mclean

12 Aug 02 - 02:46 PM (#763967)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: Mary in Kentucky

Thanks Jim!!!!!! I heard Haydn's Symphony this weekend but couldn't remember the song it was similar to (which you mentioned in another thread).

I personally think it's just coincidence.

(Ever notice how "In the Mood" is the "Star Spangled Banner" backwards? I suspect we could go on and on.)

12 Aug 02 - 05:22 PM (#764015)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: Burke

I'm not familiar with Haydn's Symphony but he composed it in 1791, so it's older.

12 Aug 02 - 06:22 PM (#764053)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: Jim McLean

But the Shakers were established around 1758, Burke. Mother Ann Lee from Manchester went to America in 1774 and the first Shaker community was established in New York in 1787. The movement reached its height during the 1840s so the question remains. The passages are too similar for coincidence I think. When was the first written/collected version of A Gift to be Simple noted? Jim Mclean

12 Aug 02 - 06:44 PM (#764070)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: greg stephens

I would think you can find the antecedents of both in the northern English/southern Scottish fiddle tradition."Bonnie Annie" springs to mind but I think you'll find quite a few tunes which rework similar ideas.

12 Aug 02 - 07:05 PM (#764080)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: greg stephens

First appears in Shaker hymm books published 1837-1847, according to Edward G Anderson's "The Gift to be Simple".

12 Aug 02 - 07:40 PM (#764095)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: katlaughing

midi of the Surpise Symphony not too bad for sythesized

acoustic piano arrangement of parts of the Surprise Symphony

12 Aug 02 - 11:59 PM (#764182)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: masato sakurai

(1) From: Daniel W. Patterson, The Shaker Spiritual (Princeton UP, 1979, pp. 372-373):

This song ["Simple Gifts"] gave a title to Edward D. Andrews' pineering study of Shaker songs and a theme to Aaron Copland's ballet suite "Appalachian Spring." These men made it the most widely known of the Shaker spirituals. It also had popularity among the Shakers. More than fifteen manuscripts preserve the tune, and it survives in oral tradition.
The manuscripts identify the song as a Quick Dance, but give conflicting word of its origin. One written at Lebanon says that it was received from a Negro spirit at Canterbury. Andrews reports seeing it described as "composed by the Alfred Ministry June 28, 1848." I have been unable to find his authority, but several manuscripts do record the song from the singing of Elder Joseph Brackett and a company from Alfred, who visited a number of societies in the summer of 1848. In her youth at Hancock, Mrs. Olive H. Austin heard that it was Elder Joseph's own song. Eldress Caroline Helfrich there remembered seeing him sing it in a meeting room, turning about "with his coat tails a-flying."

(2) From: Edward Deming Andrews, The Gift to be Simple: Songs, Dances and Rituals of the American Shakers (1940; Dover, 1962, p. 136):

Like "Come life, Shaker life," this song ["Simple Gifts"] was sung everywhere in the United Society. It appears in many collections copied down during the period of "Mother Ann's Work" (1837-1847 and after) and probably was a product of that revival. One manuscript states that the song was "composed by the Alfred Ministry June 28, 1848." It is a rather lively piece, Shaker Allegro in the original MS.

~Masato

13 Aug 02 - 06:49 AM (#764303)
Subject: RE: Haydn's Surprise Symphony/A Gift to Be S
From: Jim McLean

Thanks Masato et al. A conductor friend of mine said it was common at the time when Haydn etc. played their compositions for some members of the audience to write down the notes and rush them onto the streets as broadsheets, thus providing the general public with new melodies,(for their own lyrics?) Jim mcLean