Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion-Child #18

20 Aug 02 - 01:46 PM (#768631)
Subject: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

The song of the "Wild Boar", also known as "Old Bangum", etc., and designated "Sir Lionel" by Child (#18), is one of my favorites. I know that there have been other threads on this, and I have tried to look at most of them, but I would like to collect lyrics for the many versions of this song that you may know about, as well as talk about it's history and the folks who sing it. I am aware of the following excellent versions in the DT:

Sam Harmon's "Wild Boar" Harmon.

Rena Hicks' "Sir Lionel/Jovial(Jobal)Hunter Hicks.

"Wild Boar" - source not mentioned Wild Boar.

"Old Bangum" recorded by the Dildine family Old Bangum.

"Sir Eglamore", what appears to be a British Music Hall version Sir Eglamore.

There are also two excellent versions out among the various threads:

Nimrod Workman's "Quilo Quay" Quilo Quay.

Martin Carthy's "Rackabello" Rackabello.

There may be others on Mudcat that I have missed. If so, please bring them to our attention here. Another good composite version is the one by Jody Stecher Stecher.

Leslie Nelson's Contemplator's Folk Music Site has this:Contemplator. Here is a version from the Max Hunter collection Hunter. I hope that this gets the discussion going.

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20 Aug 02 - 02:00 PM (#768639)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Wolfgang

Rackabello (Carthy's version) has by now been improved on Garry's site. The link in this post goes to the improved transcription.

Wolfgang

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20 Aug 02 - 02:55 PM (#768667)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: masato sakurai

Variant titles in Brunnings' Folk Song Index (Garland) are:

Sir Lionel; Bangum and the Bo'; Bangum and the Boar; Bangum Rid by the Riverside; Crazy Sal and Her Pig; Horn the Hunter; Isaac-a-Bell and Hugh the Graeme; The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove; Old Baggum; Old Bangam; Old Bangem; Old Bangham; Old Bangum; Old Bangum and the Boar; Quil O' Quay; Rurey Bain; Wild Hog.

~Masato

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20 Aug 02 - 03:13 PM (#768685)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST

There are 12 traditional texts with tunes and 5 more tunes with fragmentary texts in Bertand Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads'.

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20 Aug 02 - 03:18 PM (#768690)
Subject: Lyr Add: SIR EGRABELL etc. (Child #18)
From: MMario

Here's what I have of the Child's texts.

Child 18A
^^
SIR EGRABELL had sonnes three,
[Blow thy horne, good hunter]
Siirr Lyonell was one of these.
[As I am a gentle hunter]

Siirr Lyonell wold on hunting ryde,
Vntill the forrest him beside.

And as he rode thorrow the wood,
Where trees and harts and all were good,

And as he rode over the plaine,
There he saw a knight lay slaine.

And as he rode still on the plaine,
He saw a lady sitt in a graine.

Say thou, lady, and tell thou me,
What blood shedd heere has bee.

Of this blood shedd we may all rew,
Both wife and childe and man alsoe.

For it is not past 3 days right
Since Siirr Broninge was mad a kinighrt.

Nor it is not more than 3 dayes agoe
Since the wild bore did him sloe.

Say thou, lady, and tell thou mee,
How long thou wilt sitt in ithart tree.

She said, I will sitt in this tree
Till my friends doe feitch me.

Tell me, lady, and doe not misse,
Where that yoiurr friends dwellings is.

Downe, shee said, in yonder towne,
There dwells my freinds of great renowne.

Says, Lady, Ile ryde into yonder towne
And see wether yoiurr friends beene bowne.

I my self wilbe the formost man
That shall come, lady, to feitch you home.

But as he rode then by the way,
He thought it shame to goe away;

And vmbethought him of a wile,
How he might that wilde bore beguile.

Siirr Egrabell, he said, My father was;
He neuer left lady in such a case;

Noe more will I . . .
. . . . . .

And a Thy hawkes and thy lease alsoe.

Soe shalt thou doe at my comimrand
The litle fingar on thy right hand.

Ere I wold leaue all this wiirth thee,
Vpoon this ground I rather dyee.

The gyant gaue Siirr Lyonielrl such a blow,
The fyer out of his eyen did throw.

He said then, if I were saffe and sound,
As wiirth-in this hower I was in the ground,

It shold be in the next towne told
How deare thy buffett it was sold;

And it shold haue beene in the next towne siaird
How well thy buffett it were paid.

Take 40 daies into spite,
To heale thy wounds that beene soe wide.

When 40 dayes beene at an end,
Heere meete thou me both safe and sound.

And till thou come to me againe,
Wiirth me thoust leaue thy lady alone.

When 40 dayes was at an end,
Sir Lyonielrl of his wounds was healed sound.

He tooke wiirth him a litle page,
He gaue to him good yeomans wage.

And as he rode by one hawthorne,
Even there did hang his hunting horne.

He sett his bugle to his mouth,
And blew his bugle still full south.

He blew his bugle lowde and shrill;
The lady heard, and came him till.

Sayes, The gyant lyes vnder yond low,
And well he heares yoiurr bugle blow.

And bidds me of good cheere be,
This night heele supp wiirth you and me.

Hee sett that lady vppon a steede,
And a litle boy before her yeede.

And said, lady, if you see that I must dye,
As euer you loued me, from me flye.

But, lady, if you see ithart I must liue,
. . . . .

Child 18B
^^
A KNIGHT had two sons o sma fame,
[Hey nien nanny]
Isaac-a-Bell and Hugh the Graeme.
[And the norlan flowers spring bonny]

And to the youngest he did say,
What occupation will you hae?
[When the, etc.]

Will you gae fee to pick a mill?
Or will you keep hogs on yon hill?
[While the, etc.]

I winna fee to pick a mill,
Nor will I keep hogs on yon hill.

But it is said, as I do hear,
That war will last for seven year,
[And the, etc.]

With a giant and a boar
That range into the wood o Tore.

Youll horse and armour to me provide,
That through Tore wood I may safely ride.
[When the, etc.]

The knicht did horse and armour provide,
That through Tore wood Graeme micht safely ride.

Then he rode through the wood o Tore,
And up it started the grisly boar.

The firsten bout that he did ride,
The boar he wounded in the left side.

The nexten bout at the boar he gaed,
He from the boar took aff his head.
[And the, etc.]

As he rode back through the wood o Tore,
Up started the giant him before.

O cam you through the wood o Tore,
Or did you see my good wild boar?

I cam now through the wood o Tore,
But woe be to your grisly boar.

The firsten bout that I did ride,
I wounded your wild boar in the side.

The nexten bout at him I gaed,
From your wild boar I took aff his head.

Gin you have cut aff the head o my boar,
Its your head shall be taen therfore.

Ill gie you thirty days and three,
To heal your wounds, then come to me.
[While the, etc.]

Its after thirty days and three,
When my wounds heal, Ill come to thee.
[When the, etc.]

So Graeme is back to the wood o Tore,
And hes killd the giant, as he killd the boar.
[And the, etc.]


Child 18C
SIR ROBERT BOLTON had three sons,
[Wind well thy horn, good hunter]
And one of them was called Sir Ryalas.
[For he was a jovial hunter]

He rangd all round down by the woodside,
Till up in the top of a tree a gay lady he spyd.

O what dost thou mean, fair lady? said he;
O the wild boar has killed my lord and his men thirty.
[As thou beest, etc.]

O what shall I do this wild boar to see?
O thee blow a blast, and hell come unto thee.


Then he put his horn unto his mouth,
Then he blowd a blast full north, east, west and south.
[As he was, etc.]

And the wild boar heard him full into his den;
Then he made the best of his speed unto him.
[To Sir Ryalas, etc.]

Then the wild boar, being so stout and so strong,
He thrashd down the trees as he came along.

O what dost thou want of me? the wild boar said he;
O I think in my heart I can do enough for thee.
[For I am, etc.]

Then they fought four hours in a long summers day,
Till the wild boar fain would have gotten away.
[From Sir Ryalas, etc.]

Then Sir Ryalas drawd his broad sword with might,
And he fairly cut his head off quite.
[For he was, etc.]

Then out of the wood the wild woman flew:
Oh thou hast killed my pretty spotted pig!
[As thou beest, etc.]

There are three things I do demand of thee,
Its thy horn, and thy hound, and thy gay lady.

If these three things thou dost demand of me,
Its just as my sword and thy neck can agree.
[For I am, etc.]

Then into his locks the wild woman flew,
Till she thought in her heart she had torn him through.
[As he was, etc.]

Then Sir Ryalas drawd his broad sword again,
And he fairly split her head in twain.
[For he was, etc.]

In Bromsgrove church they both do lie;
There the wild boars head is picturd by
[Sir Ryalas, etc.]


Child 18D
AS I went up one brook, one brook,
[Well wind the horn, good hunter]
I saw a fair maiden sit on a tree top.
[As thou art the jovial hunter]

I said, Fair maiden, what brings you here?
It is the wild boar that has drove me here.
[As thou art, etc.]

I wish I could that wild boar see;
And the wild boar soon will come to thee.

Then he put his horn unto his mouth,
And he blowd both east, west, north and south.
[As he was, etc.]

The wild boar hearing it into his den,
Then he made the best of his speed unto him.

He whetted his tusks for to make them strong,
And he cut down the oak and the ash as he came along.
[For to meet with, etc.]

They fought five hours one long summers day,
Till the wild boar he yelld, and hed fain run away.
[And away from, etc.]

O then he cut his head clean off,
. . . . .

Then there came an old lady running out of the wood,
Saying, You have killed my pretty, my pretty spotted pig.
[As thou art, etc.]

Then at him this old lady she did go,
And he clove her from the top of her head to her toe.
[As he was, etc.]

In Bromsgrove churchyard this old lady lies,
And the face of the boars head there is drawn by,
[That was killed by, etc.]


Child 18E
THERE was an old man and sons he had three;
[Wind well, Lion, good hunter]
A friar he being one of the three,
With pleasure he ranged the north country.
[For he was a jovial hunter]

As he went to the woods some pastime to see,
He spied a fair lady under a tree,
Sighing and moaning mournfully.
[He was, etc.]

What are you doing, my fair lady?
Im fightened the wild boar he will kill me;
He has worried my lord and wounded thirty.
[As thou art, etc.]

Then the friar he put his horn to his mouth,
And he blew a blast, east, west, north and south,
And the wild boar from his den he came forth.
Unto the, etc.



Child 18F
SIR RACKABELLO had three sons,
[Wind well your horn, brave hunter]
Sir Ryalash was one of these.
[And he was a jovial hunter]

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20 Aug 02 - 04:17 PM (#768724)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

This is a tremendous start! Wolfgang, thanks for updating the "Rackabello" link. The title variants are fascinating in and of themselves. Thanks, Masato. What would we do without Bronson? Any chance this collection is ever going to be republished? Thanks, Guest. And MMario, thanks for the Child collection! According to my edition - Dover, 1965 - you've included all of them. This gives us an excellent reference point.

I would be interested in paying particular attention to where the various versions come from geographically, and to the possibility of tracing some lineages for particular versions.

Since I grew up in Maryville, Tennessee, I'm partial to Sam Harmon's "Wild Boar", listed above in the DT links. It was recorded from the singing of Sam Harmon near Maryville, in 1939, by Herbert Halpert for the Library of Congress. You can listen to it on a cassette available from the Library of Congress (L57) CHILD BALLADS TRADITIONAL IN THE UNITED STATES, Vol. I, edited by Betrand H. Bronson, A4.

!!!CAUTION!!! I ordered this from the Library of Congress by First Class Mail on December 20, 2001. I live about three and a half hours from Washington, D.C. I had a note this week from the LOC saying that they received my order on August 14, 2002. They say, "The long delay in responding to your order was due to the anthrax scare which attacked Capitol Hill in October, 2001. All first class mail delivery was stopped for several months." Fortunately, I called in February or so and found out what the problem was. They can't take phone or internet orders, so I had to FEDEX them my order and my check. They FEDEXed me right back with the tape. Don't try it by the normal mails, unless you can wait nine months or a year.

You'll find a copy of the words and music for Sam Harmon's "Wild Boar" in Bronson's THE SINGING TRADITION OF CHILD'S POPULAR BALLADS, 1976 (Princeton), on page 71. Bronson says that Harmon learned this from his father (Council Harmon). In the liner notes for the cassette mentioned above, Bronson says,

"This is the most interesting version of the ballad of "Sir Lionel" that has been discovered in this country. Mr. Harmon learned it from hearing his father sing it but its track has not been followed further. In its outlines it is quite like Child's C text, "The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove,"[cf. MMario's post above] collected in Worcestershire about 1845." (p.7)

Sam Harmon and his family lived in Cades Cove, not far from Maryville, Tennessee, right up to the time that the Cove was taken over by the Parks Service as a part of the Smoky Mountain National Park in the 1930s. You can learn a lot about the Harmon family from Mellinger Henry's book FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN HIGHLANDS, J.J.Augustin Publisher, New York City. Henry collected a bunch of songs from the Harmons, although "The Wild Boar" is not in this collection. There is also some information in Henry's book SONGS SUNG IN THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS, MANY OF THEM ILLUSTRATING BALLADS IN THE MAKING, London, the Mitre Press, 1934. Sam Harmon and his wife moved to Cades Cove from the Beech Mountain area of Western North Carolina, and both of them were related to the ballad singers in that area.

Peggy Seeger sings a version of Sam Harmon's "Wild Boar" on Record Four of her series with Ewan MacColl called THE LONG HARVEST, put out by ARGO,in 1967, in London, and unfortunately now out of print. Her tune is slightly different from Harmon's tune, but a good one. Jody Stecher's version, linked above, is also partially based on Sam Harmon's version, especially his tune. However, Stecher collates additional verses from other sources to fill out his version. It is interesting to compare the Harmon and Stecher versions, as well as the Harmon and the Child C version.

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20 Aug 02 - 04:24 PM (#768728)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

A correction, Council Harmon was Sam Harmon's grandfather. His father was Goulder Harmon. Council Harmon was also the grandfather of Jane Gentry of Hot Springs, N.C., from whom Cecil Sharp collected so many songs.

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20 Aug 02 - 04:24 PM (#768729)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST

Samuel Harmon's version, text and tune, is the 2nd given by Bronson in 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads'.

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20 Aug 02 - 04:32 PM (#768733)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: MMario

I'll see what I have from Bronson when I get home - I believe I should be able to post several of the tunes.

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20 Aug 02 - 04:37 PM (#768737)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: MMario

Okay - according to my records - this is what I have from Bronson:

Bronson 18.2 Wild Boar
Bronson 18.3 Sir Eglamore
Bronson 18.4 Sir Lionel
Bronson 18.5 Brangywell
Bronson 18.10 Old Bang 'em

will try to post ABC's tonight

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20 Aug 02 - 06:37 PM (#768780)
Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: ISAAC-A-BELL AND HUGH THE GRAEME etc
From: MMario

X:1
T:ISAAC-A-BELL and HUGH THE GRAEME
N:Child 18B
N:Bronson 18.1
N:Christie 1876
N:Sung by an old woman in Buckie – 1850
I:abc2nwc
M:2/4
L:1/16
K:Bb
z6C2|D2 G2 G2 (A B)|A2 (A G) F4"^|"
|G4(A3 G)|A2 d2 z2"^|"
c2|d2 d2 c2 (B A)|G2 (A B) D2 "^|"
F3/2 E/2|D3 C B,3 C|D2 G2 z2z2
w:A KNIGHT had two sons_ o sma_ fame,
[Hey nien_ nan-ny]
I-saac-a-Bell and_ Hugh the_ Graeme.
[And the nor-lan flowers spring bon-ny]


ISAAC-A-BELL and HUGH THE GRAEME

A KNIGHT had two sons o sma fame,
[Hey nien nanny]
Isaac-a-Bell and Hugh the Graeme.
[And the norlan flowers spring bonny]

And to the youngest he did say,
What occupation will you hae?
[When the, etc.]

Will you gae fee to pick a mill?
Or will you keep hogs on yon hill?
[While the, etc.]

I winna fee to pick a mill,
Nor will I keep hogs on yon hill.

But it is said, as I do hear,
That war will last for seven year,
[And the, etc.]

With a giant and a boar
That range into the wood o Tore.

Youll horse and armour to me provide,
That through Tore wood I may safely ride.
[When the, etc.]

The knicht did horse and armour provide,
That through Tore wood Graeme micht safely ride.

Then he rode through the wood o Tore,
And up it started the grisly boar.

The firsten bout that he did ride,
The boar he wounded in the left side.

The nexten bout at the boar he gaed,
He from the boar took aff his head.
[And the, etc.]

As he rode back through the wood o Tore,
Up started the giant him before.

O cam you through the wood o Tore,
Or did you see my good wild boar?

I cam now through the wood o Tore,
But woe be to your grisly boar.

The firsten bout that I did ride,
I wounded your wild boar in the side.

The nexten bout at him I gaed,
From your wild boar I took aff his head.

Gin you have cut aff the head o my boar,
Its your head shall be taen therfore.

Ill gie you thirty days and three,
To heal your wounds, then come to me.
[While the, etc.]

Its after thirty days and three,
When my wounds heal, Ill come to thee.
[When the, etc.]

So Graeme is back to the wood o Tore,
And hes killd the giant, as he killd the boar.
[And the, etc.]



X:2
T:OLD BANG 'EM
N:Davis
N:Sung by Evelyn Purcell - 1913
N:Handed down from her great-grandfather c 1760
I:abc2nwc
M:2/4
L:1/16
K:G
z6zD|D2 G2 G2 E2|F2 G2 A4"^|"
|G G3 A4|F D3 z3"^|"
D|D2 G2 G2 E2|F2 G2 A4"^|"
|G G3 A4-|A4"^|"
A4|A2 d2 d2 B2|c2 B2 A4"^|"
|c2 B2 A2 G2|A2 F2 D4"^|"
|D D3 B4-|B3 A G3 A "^|"
|D D3 F4|F7z
w:Old Ban-g'em would a-hunt-ing ride,
[Dil-lem, down, dil-lem]
Old Bang-'em would a-hun-ting ride
[Dil-lem down]_
Old Bang-'em would a-hunt-ing ride,
Sword and pis-tol by his side
[Cub-by, ki,_ cud-dle down
Kil-li, Quo, Quam]

OLD BANG 'EM


Old Bang'em would a-hunting ride,
[Dillem, down, dillem]
Old Bang'em would a-hunting ride
[Dillem down]
Old Bang'em would a-hunting ride,
Sword and pistol by his side
[Cubby, ki, cuddle down
Killi, Quo, Quam]

There is a wild boar in this wood
Will eat your meat and suck your blood

Oh how shall I this wild boar see?
Blow a blast and he'll come to thee

Old Bang'em blew both load and shrill
The wild boar heard on Temple Hill

The wild boar came with such a rush
He tore down hickory, oak and ash

Old Bang'em drew his wooden knife
And swore that he would take his life

Old Bang'em did you win or lose
He swore that he had won the shoes





X:3
T:WILD BOAR
N:Bronson 18.2
N:Halpert
N:Sung by Samuel Harmon 1939
N:Learned from his father
I:abc2nwc
M:3/2
L:1/8
K:C
z6D2G2G2|B2B2 (3(G2A2)B2E4"^|"
G6B2A4|c c4"^|"
(B d) e2d2|c2c2 (3(A2B2)c2 (3E2"^|"
D2E2|G2B6A2G2|E G- G4
w:Ab-ram_ Bai-ley he'd_ three sons
[Blow your horn cen-ter]
And_ he is through the wild_-wood gone
Just like a jo-vi-al hun-ter_


WILD BOAR

Abram Bailey he'd three sons
[Blow your horn center]
And he is through the wildwood gone
Just like a jovial hunter

As he marched down the greenwood side
A pretty girl o there he spied
[As he was a jovial hunter]

There is a wild boar all in this wood
He slew the lord and his forty men

How can I this wild boar see?
Wind up your horn and he'lll come to you
[As you are etc]

He wound his horn unto his mouth
He blew East, North West and South
[As he was etc]

The wild boar heard him unto his den
He made the oak and ash then far to bend

The fit three hours by the day
And at length he this wild boar slay

He meets the old witch wife on the bridge
Begone you rogue, you've killed my pig
[as you are etc]

There is three things I crave of thee
Your hawk, your hound, your gay lady

These three things you'll not have of me
Neither hawk nor hound nor gay lady

He split the old witch wife to the chin
And on his way he went ag'in
Julst like a jovial hunter.



X:4
T:SIR EGLAMORE
N:D'Urfey 1719
I:abc2nwc
M:6/4
L:1/8
K:G
z6z4G2|G4G2(E2F2)G2|A4F2D6"^|"
|B6c6|d3d B2G2G2"^|"
G2|G2G2G2E2F2G2|A4F2D6"^|"
|B6c6|d3d B2G2G2"^|"
G2|B4c2d4B2|e4d2c4"^|"
B2|A4G2F4E2|A4G2F4"^|"
E2|D6G6|F6E3D E2|D6"^|"
G3A F2|G2G4-G4z2
w:Sir Eg-la-more,_ that va-liant Knight,
[Fa la, lan-ky down dil-ly]
He took up his sword and he went to fight
[Fa la, lan-ky down dil-ly;]
And as he rode o'er Hill and Dale,
All arm-ed with a coat of male,
[fa la la la la la la lalan-ky down dil-ly]_

SIR EGLAMORE


Sir Eglamore, that valiant Knight,
[Fa la, lanky down dilly]
He took up his sword and he went to fight
[Fa la, lanky down dilly;]
And as he rode o'er Hill and Dale,
All armed with a coat of male,
[fa la la la la la lanky down dilly]

There leap'd a Dragon out of her Den
That had slain god knows how many Men;
But when she saw Sir Eglamore,
Oh that you had but heard her roar!

Then the Trees began to shake,
Horse did tremble, Man did quake
The birds betook them all to peeping
Ah! 'twould have made one fall a weeping

But all in vain it was to fear,
For now they fall to't, fight Dog, fight bear,
And to't they go, and soundly fight,
A live-long day, from Morn till night.

This Dragon had on a plaguy Hide,
That could the sharpest steel abide,
No Sword could enter her with cuts,
Which vex'd the Knight unto the Guts.

But as in Choler he did burn,
He watch'd the Dragon a great good turn
For as a Yawning she did fall
He thrust his Sword up hilt and all.

Then Like a coward she did fly,
Unto her den, which was hard by;
And there she lay all Night and roar'd
The Knight was sorry for his Word
But riding away, he cries, I forsake it!
He that will fetch it, let him take it!




X:5
T:SIR LIONEL
N:Kidson - from an unknown source
I:abc2nwc
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
z6D2|D2G2F2G2|A2B2G4"^|"
|G G z2A2z2|B G z2z2"^|"
D2|D2G2F2G2|A2B2G4"^|"
|d d z2^c2z2|d4z2"^|"
B2|g2f2e2d2|e2d2c2"^|"
B2|c2B2A2G2|A2G2E4"^|"
| (3E2F2G2D4|E G3D4"^|"
E E z2F2z2|G4z2z2
w:(As) Tom and Har-ry went to plough,
[dil-lom down dil-lom]
As Tom and Har-ry went to plough
[Quid-ly Qou Quam]
As Tom and Har-ry went to plough
They saw a fair maid on a bough
[Kam-ber-ry Quo, Quod-dle dam,
Quid-ly Qou Quam]

SIR LIONEL

(As)Tom and Harry went to plough,
[dillom down dillom]
As Tom and Harry went to plough
[Quidly Qou Quam]
As Tom and Harry went to plough
They saw a fair maid on a bough
[Kamberry Quo, Quoddle dam, Quidly Qou Quam]

Why do ye, fair maid, sit so high
That no young man can you come nigh?

The fair maid unto them did say
If you can fetch me down you may

There is a wild boar in the wood
If he comes out he'll suck your blood

The wild boar came with such a sound
That rocks and hills and trees fell down.




X:6
T:BRANGYWELL
N:Leather - 1912
N:Sung by Mrs. Mellor
N:Noted by R. Hughes Rowlands
I:abc2nwc
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
z6zD|G3/2 A/2 B3A B3/2 c/2|B4z4|E/2 E/2 zA2F/2 D/2 zz"^|"
D|G3/2 A/2 B3A B3/2 c/2|B4z4|E/2 E/2 z(F G) A2"^|"
B|c3/2 d/2 e3d c3/2 B/2|A4z3"^|"
B|c3B A3G|F2E2D2z"^|"
G/2 G/2|E2zA/2 A/2 D2z"^|"
E/2 E/2|F2G2z4
w:As Bran-gy-well went forth to plough
[dil-lum, down dil-lum]
As Bran-gy-well went forth to plough,
[Kil ly co_ quam]
As Bran-gy-well went forth to plough
He spied a la-dy on a bough
[Kil ly do cud-dle dame
Kil ly co quam]

BRANGYWELL

As Brangywell went forth to plough
[dillum, down dillum]
As Brangywell went forth to plough,
[Kil ly co quam]
As Brangywell went forth to plough
He spied a lady on a bough
[Kil ly do cuddle dame
Kil ly co quam]

What makes thee sit so high, lady
That no one can come night to thee

There is a wild boar in the wood
If I come down he'll suck my blood

If I should kill the boar, said he
Wilt though come down and marry me?

If thou should'st kill the boar, said she
I will come down and marry thee

Then Brangywell pull out his dart
And shot the wild boar through the heart

The wild boar fetched out such a sound
That all the oaks and ash fell down

Then hand in hand they went to the den
And found the bones of twenty men.

---

20 Aug 02 - 07:15 PM (#768798)
Subject: Lyr Add: WILD HOG IN THE WOODS
From: Stewie

Here's a version from Virginia. The refrains, as indicated in the first two stanzas, continue throughout. I had a look in Cox 'Folk-Songs of the South', but he has no version of this ballad.

WILD HOG IN THE WOODS
(Traditional)
^^^
There is a wild hog in the wood
Diddle o down, diddle o day
There is a wild hog in the wood
Diddle o, oooh
There is a wild hog in the wood
Kills a man and drinks his blood
Kam-o-kay, cut him down, kill him if you can

I wish I could that wild hog see
Diddle o …
I wish I could that wild hog see
Diddle o, oooh
I wish I could that wild hog see
And see if he'd take a fight with me
Kam-o-kay, …

There he comes through yonders marsh
He threads his way through oak and ash

Bangum drew his wooden knife
To rob that wild hog of his life

They fought four hours of the day
At length that wild hog stole away

They followed that wild hog to his den
And there found the bones of a thousand men

Source: transcription of recording of Eunice Yeattes McAlexander issued on Various Artists 'Virginia Traditions: Ballads from British Tradition' Global Village CD 1002. Recorded by Kip Lornell on 25 October 1976 in Meadows of Dan (Patrick County) Virginia. This lady was previously recorded by Dr Davis in 1932. Blue Ridge Institute recordings series.

--Stewie.

---

20 Aug 02 - 07:59 PM (#768816)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Stewie

I don't know what happened to above posting. I put in a command to end the blockquote, but it does not appear to have worked. The blockquote ends with the CD reference in square brackets.

--Stewie.

---

20 Aug 02 - 08:09 PM (#768821)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

MMario, I'm amazed at how you get all of that material on here. That is really great. To already have both Child and Bronson printed out like this. And Stewie, thanks for the Virginia version. The Meadows of Dan are not too far south of where I live now. I've heard that recording and I would agree, she is jaunty, "cut him down, kill him if you can!" I think Dwight Diller sings that refrain, too, with his banjo version. I know that Old Bangum has been used for a lullaby, or at least a bedtime song. Many of these old ballads were/are. The longer the better, so I've been told. And the scarier the better, too.

---

20 Aug 02 - 10:05 PM (#768858)
Subject: Lyr Add: OLD BANGUM
From: Stewie

I remembered that I have an old Nimrod Workman LP, and I dug it out of the collection. It has the same brief song given in the DT and he sings 'Bottler'. However, the LP sleeve and record label give the title as 'Biler and the Boar'. Curious. The LP is Nimrod Workman 'Mother Jones' Will' Rounder 0076 (1976).

Alan Lomax gave a version from p 51 of Dorothy Scarborough 'On the Trail of Negro Folksongs' in his 'Folk Songs of North America'. He commented that 'only a handful of British ballads were taken over by Negro singers ['Maid Freed From the Gallows', 'Barbara Allen', 'Lord Thomas', 'St James Infirmary', 'Our Goodman', 'Little Sir Hugh', 'Wily Aule Carle']. In respect of their affection for 'Old Bangum', he too refers to the children's story connection - 'a sort of bogeyman story'. He wrote: 'Crooned quietly to its sweet old tune, it is an excellent ballad for children who must face the nightmares conjured up in their imaginations by adults. The Negro slave child, particularly, must often have felt he was facing a monster when he stood up against his white owners'. He gives a quotation from Fisk ['Unwritten History of Slavery'] of a slave describing routine, brutal whippings for no apparent reason.

OLD BANGUM

Old Bangum, will you hunt and ride?
Dillum down dillum
Old Bangum, will you hunt and ride?
Dillum down
Old Bangum, will you hunt and ride?
Sword and pistol by your side
Cubbi-kee, cuddledum, killi quo quam

There is a wild boar in these woods
Eats men's bones and drinks their blood

Old Bangum drew his wooden knife
And swore he'd take the wild boar's life

Old Bangum went to the wild boar's den
And found the bones of a thousand men

They fought four hours in that day
The wild boar fled and slunk away

Old Bangum, did you win or lose?
He swore, by Jove, he'd won his shoes

Source: from Dorothy Scarborough 'On the Trail of Negro Folk Songs' Harvard Uni Press p 51. Reprinted in Alan Lomax 'Folk Songs of North America' Doubleday 1960, p 510.

--Stewie.

---

20 Aug 02 - 10:28 PM (#768872)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: MMario

it's cut and paste, primarily - though I have to admit I only have 'The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular ballads' not the full Bronson - and I've only transcribed up through #40 - still have 416 pages to go.

text of childs can be found at Child Ballads Site

url=http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/faculty/stampe/Oral-Lit/English/Child-Ballads/child.html

---

20 Aug 02 - 10:30 PM (#768874)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: masato sakurai

From Scarborough's comment (On the Trail, 1925; reprint 1963, pp. 50-52):

"Another delightful old song, of ancient tradition, Old Bangum, was given me by Mrs. Landon Randolph Dashiell, of Richmond, Virginia, who sends it "as learned from years of memory and iteration." The music was written from Mrs Dashiell's singign by Shepard Webb, also of Richmond. Mrs. Dashiell says that her Negro mammy used to sing it to her, and that the song was so indissolubly associated with the sleepy time that she doubted if she could sing it for me unless she took me in her lap and rocked me to sleep by it.

"Professor Kittredge speaks of this song in a discussion in the Journal of American Folklore. Mrs. Case says: "Both General James Taylor and President Madison were great-great-grandchildren of James Taylor, who came from Carlisle, England, to Orange County, Virginia, in 1638, and both were hushed to sleep by their Negro mammies with the strains of Bangum and the Boar." The version he gives is different in some respects from that given by Mrs. Dashiell."

~Masato

---

21 Aug 02 - 10:12 AM (#769072)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

The Scarborough version, which she collected from Mrs. Dashiell of Richmond is a real gem. I'd like to see the version that Professor Kittredge is talking about!

I'd like to make a correction on some of the information given on one of the versions in the DT. It's the one titled "Jovial Hunter/Sir Lionel" and attributed to Rena Hicks. It was taken from Sandy Paton's THE TRADITIONAL MUSIC OF BEECH MOUNTAIN, NORTH CAROLINA, VOL I, from Folk-Legacy (FSA-22), Side I, Band 2, pp. 11-12. The song is sung by BUNA Hicks rather than Rena Hicks. This distinction is important for a number of reasons. Buna Vista Hicks was the wife of Robey Hicks, and the aunt of Rena Hicks. Rena Hicks was the wife of Nathan Hicks and the mother of Ray Hicks, the famous Jack Tale teller.

Sandy says that "Mrs. Hicks (Buna) recalls her fragment (of "Sir Lionel')from the singing of her late husband, Robey Hicks.

As it is printed in the DT, the song goes like this:

He looked to the east, he looked to the west,
Blow your horn, Hunter
He blowed his horn both east and west
Just like a jovial hunter. etc.

There have been two major changes made from Sandy's transcription of the song, which goes as follows:

He looked to the east, he looked to the west,
Blow your horn, CENTER;(emphasis added)
He blowed his horn both east and west,
Just like a JOBAL(jovial)hunter.

It looks like whoever added this to the DT slipped back to the Child C version for "Hunter" and "Jovial Hunter". Establishing the more accurate version as the one that uses "Center" is important because this shows that Buna Hicks' song is related to Sam Harmon's "Wild Boar" and is a variation of that song. The verses in Buna Hicks' song are out of order if compared to the Harmon version, but are basically the same lyrics.

None of this should be surprizing since Buna Hicks and Sam Harmon were related and both were from the Beech Mountain area. Sam Harmon's family "left the Valle Crucis(Beech Mountain) area before 1880."(p.19) Now let me see if I can figure out how they were related. Robey Monroe (1882-1957), Buna's husband, was the grandson of Council Harmon (1807-1896). Buna Vista Presnell Hicks(1888-1984) was the great-granddaughter of Council Harmon on both her father's and her mother's sides. Her mother and her father were first cousins to each other, and to her husband, Robey. Sam Harmon (1869-1940)was also a grandson of Council Harmon, and a first cousin of Robey, and a first cousin of Andrew Hicks and Sarah Jane Eggers, who were Buna Hicks' parents. I think this means that Buna was a second cousin to both her husband, Robey, and to Sam Harmon. Sam Harmon's mother was also a Hicks. Everybody was pretty much related in some fashion or other. Understanding how you were related was very important. As Sheila Kay Adams has said, the first question you would be asked in a mountain community would be "Who's boy/girl are you?" regardless of your age. I got most of this information from an article by James W. Thompson, entitled "The Origins of the Hicks Family Traditions", from the NORTH CAROLINA FOLKLORE JOURNAL, Vol. 34, No. 1, Winter-Spring 1987, pp.18-28.

---

21 Aug 02 - 12:50 PM (#769162)
Subject: Tune Add: RACKABELLO
From: MMario

The tune for Rackabello - as per Sing Out! - midi posted on their website.

X:1
T:RACKABELLO
Q:1/4=160
I:abc2nwc
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:C
G2cc cc cc
|[M:4/4]d2GA ^A2z2
|[M:4/4]d^A cc AG =AA
|[M:4/4]GA ^A=A G2FD
|[M:4/4]C4B,C D2
|[M:4/4]DD GF DE FD
|[M:4/4]C4B,C D2
|[M:4/4]DG FD C2C2

---

21 Aug 02 - 01:02 PM (#769166)
Subject: Tune Add: QUIL O QUAY / QUILOQUAY
From: MMario

Tune for QUIL O QUAY - as per midi from sing Out! v44 #4

X:1
T:QUILOQUAY
I:abc2nwc
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
B6^d2|B2AB ^d2d2|B4zA A2|F8|f2f6|a2ff a2a2|
f2f2f2e2|d2BB d2d2|B4zB B2|d8|BA F2BB B2-|B8

---

21 Aug 02 - 01:22 PM (#769178)
Subject: Tune Add: THE WILD HOG (from Max Hunter Collection
From: MMario

And the version from the Max Hunter collection - as sung by Mrs. Brewer

X:1
T:THE WILD HOG
C:as sung by Mrs. Pearl Brewer -12 NOV 1958
N:from the Max Hunter Collection - cat #0288
I:abc2nwc
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Bb
B3/2 c/2 d B d e f2|B/2 B/2 B =B2c/2 _B/2 G F2|B3/2 c/2 d B d e f2|f/2 f/2 b (f d) c4|c3/2 d/2 e c d e (e/2 c3/2)|f3/2 f/2 f/2 f/2 f g/2 f/2 d2|F/2 F/2 F B2c/2 c/2 c d2|B4z4
w:There's a wild hog in these woods
KIM-A-LI-KEE, QUIT-AL-LI-QUAW
There's a wild hog in those woods
KIM-A-LI KEE,_ QUAW
There's a wild hog in those woods_they-'ll kill ya an' suck your blood
KIM-A-LI-KEE QUIT-AL-LI-QEEQUAW

---

21 Aug 02 - 05:11 PM (#769290)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

MMario, thanks for the three tunes. I'd seen the SING OUT! references but didn't know how to transcribe them. I confess that I don't know how to read these tunes that you've posted, but I know that other folks do. There is a great interview with Nimrod Workman by Rich Kirby in SING OUT! that includes the music for "Quil O'Quay", but I don't have the volume or date. You can hear him sing this song with Phyllis Boyens on PASSING THRU THE GARDEN (June Appal 001), which I think is still available on cassette. You can also see and hear Phyllis sing part of the song on Alan Lomax's video, "Appalachian Journey"(?)

I found the music for Buna Hicks' version in a little book by Thomas G. Burton, called SOME BALLAD FOLKS, published, I think, by East Tennessee State University Press. I copied the title page, but it doesn't have the publisher or date on it. The words are on page 22(same as Sandy's version), and the music is on page 65. There was a cassette that came with the book that has a recording of this song almost identical to that on the Folk-Legacy album.

There is another piece of information in Burton's book that clears up what had become something of a mystery. What is the meaning of the refrain "Blow your horn Center"? More specifically, what is the meaning of "Center"? If you compare Buna Hicks version and Sam Harmon's version with that of Child C, then "Center" has been substituted for "good hunter",

SIR ROBERT BOLTON had three sons,
[Wind well thy horn, good hunter]
And one of them was called Sir Ryalas.
[For he was a jovial hunter]

In his book, after giving Buna Hicks' "Jobal Hunter", Burton says, "She has added an initial verse from Mrs. Rena(Hicks)...

Abram Bailey had three sons,
And the youngest one was Center.
All to the wildwoods he went
Just like a jobal hunter.

This is compared to Sam Harmon's first verse:

Abram Bailey he'd three sons
Blow your horn center
And he is through the wildwood gone
Just like a jovial hunter.

This would indicate that "Center" is the name of Abram Bailey's youngest son, and that somehow this fell out of Sam Harmon's version. Burton goes on to give a "composite of Rena Hicks' written and recited version" as follows (p. 62).

Abe and Bailey had three sons;
The youngest was called Center.
He's gone to the Green's woods hunting
Just like a jobal hunter.

As he walked up the Green Brier Ridge,
Blow your horn, Center,
There he met a Gaily-Dee,
Just like a jobal hunter.

She says, "There is a wild boar in these woods;
Blow your horn, Center,
For he has killed my lord and forty men,
As you are the jobal hunter.

He says, "Oh, how am I to know?"
Blow your horn, Center,
Blow your horn north, east, west and south,
As you are the jobal hunter."

He blowed his horn nothr, east, west, and south,
Blow your horn, Center.
The wild boar hear him unto his den,
Just like a jobal hunter.

And as they crossed the White Oak Mountain,
Blow your horn, Center,
On their way they went again,
Just like a jobal hunter.

As he slayed the wild boar,
Blow your horn, Center,
The oak and ash they did bend,
As he was a jobal hunter.

They met the old witch wife on a bridge,
Blow your horn, Center,
"Begone, you rogue; you've killed my pig,
As you are the jobal hunter.

She says, "These three things I crave of yourn,
Blow your horn, Center,
'S your 'hawk, your hound, and your Gaily-Dee,
As you are the jobal hunter."

He says, "These three things you can't have of mine."
Blow your horn, Center.
"Is my 'hawk, my hound, and my Gaily-Dee,"
Just like a jobal hunter.

He split the old witch wife through the chin,
Blow your horn, Center.
And on their way they went again,
As you are the jobal hunter.

Burton did not record Rena Hicks singing this song, since she could no longer sing, and does not give any music for it. If you compare the lyrics of this version with those of Sam Harmon, you will see that they are directly related, and I think, come from a common source, the Hicks/Harmon family tradition.

I especially like the "Gaily-Dee".

---

21 Aug 02 - 11:09 PM (#769434)
Subject: Lyr Add: OLD BANGUM
From: raredance

Here's one from New England. NOte that the "boar" has become a "bear". From "Ancient Ballads Traditionally Sung in New England" by Helen H Flanders (1960).

OLD BANGUM

Old Bangum would a-hunting ride,
Derrum, derrum, derrum.
Old Bangum would a-hunting ride,
Kili-ko-
Old Bangum would a-hunting ride,
With sword and pistol at his side,
Derrum-kili-ko-ko.

(use above pattern for following stanzas)

He rode unto the riverside,
Where he a pretty maid espied.

"Fair maid," said he, "will you marry me?"
"Ah no," said she, "for we'd ne'er agree."

"there lives a bear in yonder wood,
He'd eat your bones, he'd drink your blood.

Brave Bangum rode to the wild bear's den
Where lay the bones of a thousand men.

Brave Bangum and the wild bear fought;
At set of sun the bear was naught.

He rode again to the riverside
To ask that madi to be his bride.

rich r

---

22 Aug 02 - 07:39 AM (#769545)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Rich r, thanks for the Flanders text. I've not seen Old Bangum take on a bear before! Jean Ritchie sings a nice version in which he takes on a dragon on JEAN RITCHIE, CHILDHOOD SONGS (Greenhays Recordings GR90723).

Another note on the Hicks/Harmon "Wild Boar" song, with regard to the refrain, "Blow your horn, Center". I mentioned that Rena Hicks' version seems to establish that "Center" was a name, referring to Abram Bailey's youngest son. Where did it come from? Perhaps it was a family name. In her book, JANE HICKS GENTRY, A SINGER AMONG SINGERS (University Press of Kentucky), Betty Smith gives some important information about the history of the Hicks/Harmons.

Jane Gentry, who lived in Hot Springs, in Madison County, North Carolina, and from whom Cecil Sharp collected seventy songs, was also a grand-daughter of old Council Harmon, and thus a first cousin of Sam Harmon, Robey Monroe, and all those other folks up at Beech Mountain. They were all descendents of David Hix. According to Smith, David Hix had a son, Hiram, born between 1811 and 1814. Smith says that Hiram married Jane Tester in 1834, and that

"Hiram and Jennie produced two sets of twins, John and Mary, born in 1838, and Ransom and Margaret born in 1842. Other children were Melissa, Eli, Charlotte, Rhoda, Zachariah, Julia, CENTER, Jim J., Copelin (Cope), and Emily." (pp.18-19)

Ransom Hicks was Jane Hicks Gentry's father. Both of her parents were descended from David Hix. Center would have been a cousin to all these other folks. I would suggest that it was his name that got into the "Wild Boar" song in that family tradition. He was around before the Sam Harmon family left the area in 1880.

As far as I know this refrain, "Blow your horn, Center", is unique to the Hicks/Harmon family tradition. I would be very interested to find that it shows up anywhere else. In fact, I would be very interested to find this particular variation of "Sir Lionel", a descendent of Child C, showing up anywhere else in North America.

---

22 Aug 02 - 07:51 AM (#769547)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: IanC

I suspect that the "Blow your horn, Center" line is originally a mishearing of "Blow your horn, Hunter".

:-)
Ian

---

22 Aug 02 - 08:45 AM (#769561)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: MMario

I have read (sorry - I forget where) that some people suspect it to be a mispelling/pronunciation of "centaur" - but that may be wishful thinking.

---

22 Aug 02 - 07:14 PM (#769870)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE WILD BOAR (from North Carolina)
From: John Minear

Here is a version that I just discovered a month or so ago. It comes from Sheila Kay Adams, of Sodom, North Carolina, who got it from Bobby McMillon, who lives in Lenoir, N.C., but comes from over near Cosby, Tennessee. To my knowledge it has not been recorded by either Sheila or Bobby. In this version Mr. Bailey once again has three sons, but here he is named "Bingham" instead of "Abram", and his son is "Willie" rather than "Center". Also the refrain and the tune are quite different from the Harmon/Hicks version, almost like that of "Sir Eglamore" listed above in MMario's posting on Bronson(and in the DT). This version is much more bouncy and in a major key. However, the story line is quite similar to that of the Harmon/Hicks version. This one almost seems like a hybrid or a combination of several different traditions.

THE WILD BOAR

Bingham Bailey had three sons
Fal-a-day, fal-a-day, fal-a-rinks-dum-a-dairy-o
Bingham Bailey had three sons,
Willie was the youngest one
Fal-a-day, fal-a-day, fal-a-rinks-dum-a-dairy-o.

Willie would a hunting ride
With a sword and pistol by his side.

One day up on the greenwood side
Up in a tree a lady spied

What are you doing up in that tree?
I see you there my gay lady.

There be's a wild boar in these woods
He kilt my lord and he drunk his blood.

And how might I this wild boar see?
Just blow thy horn, he'll come to thee.

He popped his bugle to his mouth
And he blew it long both north and south

Over yander he comes through the bresh
He's a cutting his way through the oak and ash

They fit the fight up in the day
And in the end the boar he slayed

They rode down by the wild boar's den
And spied the bones of a thousand men.

They met the witch-wife on the bridge
"Be gone you rogue, you've kilt my pig!"

Hit's these three things I crave of thee
Thy hawk, thy hound, thy gay lady.

Hit's these three things you can't have from me
My hawk, my hound, my gay lady.

Into his locks the witch wife flew
"You durned old rogue I will kill you!"

He split the witch-wife to the chin
Then hit's up behind and away again.

They's a piece of corn bread a-laying on the shelf
If you want more sung, you'll have to sing it yourself.

Sheila says that the question always was when "he split the witch-wife to chin", where did he start from!

---

22 Aug 02 - 08:07 PM (#769881)
Subject: Lyr Add: OLD BANGUM
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

OZARK FOLKSONGS Volume I. British Ballads and Songs Collect and Edited by Vance Randolph Revised Edition, Introduction by W.K. Mc Neil, University of Missouri Press, Columbia and London, 1980 Chapter II. The Traditional Ballads, 7. Old Bangum (Child 18) p. 72.

The "Old Bangum" song is a corrupted fragment of "Sir Lionel" (Child, English and Scottish Popular Ballad, 1882-1898, No. 18). For American texts see Belden (Song-Ballads and Other Popular Poetry, 1910, No. 3), Campbell and Sharp (English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, 1917, No. 8), McGill (Folk-Song of the Kentucky Mountains, 1917, p. 79), Scarborough (On the Trail of Negro Folk-Songs, 1925, p.51), Davis (,I>Traditional Ballads of Virginia, 1929, pp. 125-132), and JAFL 19, 1906 p. 235;25, 1912, p. 175; 30,1917, p. 291. Beldon (,I>Ballads and Songs, 1940, pp. 29-31) reports four texts and one tune from the Missouri collection.

Sung by Mr. Frank Payne, Galen, Mo., May 14, 1934.

Old Bang-um did a-hunt-in' ride,
Dil-li-um down dil-li-um,
Old Bang-um did a-hunt-in' ride,
Sword an' pistol by his side,
Dil-li-um down dil-li-um
An' a kwid-dle, kwee ho kwo.

The wild boars they run in the woods,
Dillium down dillium,
the wild boars they run in the woods,
An' they seen the bones of a thousand men,
Dillium down dillium,
An' a kwiddle, kwee ho kwo.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

---

22 Aug 02 - 08:45 PM (#769896)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Stewie

On the subject of bears and boars, B.A. Botkin gives a tale from Vermont about a boar that killed bears! 'The Boar That Hunted Bears' in 'A Treasury of New England Folklore' Crown 1947, p262.

--Stewie.

---

22 Aug 02 - 09:26 PM (#769905)
Subject: Lyr Add: OLD BADMAN
From: raredance

This text is from "Folk Songs of the West Virginia Hills" by Patrick Gainer (1975). He says it was sung by Winnie Hamrick of Braxton County.

OLD BADMAN

Old badman did a courting ride,
A hie a diddle doe,
With a sword and pistol by his side. Kitty kutty coe.

Old badman did a courting ride,
He saw a fine lady in a tree hide,

There was a wild boar in the wood,
That will cut your throat and drink your blood.

Old Badman drew his sword so sharp,
To cut out this wild boar's heart.

They fought, they fought six hours that day,
Till that wild boar did steal away.

Old Badman rode to the wild boar's den,
He saw the bones of a hundred men.

rich r

---

22 Aug 02 - 10:29 PM (#769922)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Old Bangum the Badman sure got around, from West Virginia to Missouri. Thanks to rich r and gargoyle for these additions. It has been mentioned that this song was used as a bedtime song for children, and it's often presented as a children's song. I've also heard that many of the traditional ballad singers were women and that they passed on those old stories because somehow they found echoes of their own lives there. I wonder about this song. Why has it been so popular in so many places? And is it more of a man's song? I know women also sing it. I'm always curious about what makes a song popular. I'm speaking both historically/tradionally and about the present as well. On the face of it, this song seems to have such an unlikely subject. Any thoughts on this, as we continue to collect whats out there?

---

22 Aug 02 - 10:37 PM (#769924)
Subject: Lyr Add: BANGUM AND THE BOAR
From: raredance

This is the text originally published in the Journal of American Folk Lore XXX is found in "Ballads and Songs" by H M Belden (1940). He says it was secured by Mrs. Case from Miss Josephine Caseyof Kansas City in 1916. Mrs Case wrote: "Miss Casey is a grandniece of General Zachary Taylor of Mexican War fame....(what follows is the quote about General Taylor that Masato took from Scarborough - see above)... The air (i.e. the one he printed) is even older than the words. A Danish maid in the service of Miss Casey's sister burst into tears when she heard the song. When asked the reason she said, 'It makes me homesick. In Denmark, we young people used to dance to that air, which is a very old one.'"

BANGUM AND THE BOAR

Old Bangum would a-wooing ride,
Dillum down, dillum down
Old Bangum would a-wooing ride,
Dillum down,
Old Bangum would a-wooing ride,
With sword and buckler by his side.
Cum-e-caw, cud-e-down, kill-e-quo-qum.

Od Bangum rode to the greenwood side,,br. And there a pretty maid he spied.

There is a wild boar in this wood,
That'll cut your throat and suck your blood.

Oh, how can I this wild boar see?
Blow a blast and he'll come to thee.

Old Bangum clapped his horn to his mouth,
And blew a blast both loud and stout.

The wild boar came in such a rage,
He made his way through oak and ash

They fit three hours in the day,
As last the wild boar stole away.

Old Bangum rode to the wild boar's den,
And spied the bones of a thousand men.

Here is a second text from Belden. "Written out for me by Professor G C Broadhead, University of Missouri, about 1911, as known by him for nearly sixty years."

There is a wild boar in these woods,
Dillum down dillum.
There is a wild boar in these woods,
Dillum down
There is a wild boar in these woods,
Who'll eat your flesh and drink your blood,
Kobby ky cuddle down killy quo cum.

Oh how shall I this wild boar see?
I'll blow a blast and he'll come to me.

Od Bangum blew both loud and shrill;
The wild boar heard on Temple Hill.

The wild boar dashed with such a rash,
He tore his way through oak and ash.

Old Bangum drew his wooden knife,
And swore he'd take the wild boar's life.

They fought four hours in a day;
At last the wild boar stole away.

The raced the wild boar to his den,
And found the bones of a thousand men.

rich r

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22 Aug 02 - 11:08 PM (#769931)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: masato sakurai

"The first stanza [of version A above] seems to have been taken over from The Frog's Courtship" (Beldon).

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23 Aug 02 - 09:39 AM (#770128)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST

ditto to the first stanza of a number of the texts

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23 Aug 02 - 12:10 PM (#770244)
Subject: Lyr Add: WILD HOG IN THE WOODS
From: John Minear

Bronson has music for Mrs. Josephine Casey's version above, which you will find in Vol I (I think)of his multi-volume series on the tunes for the Child Ballads, p. 270, no.7. MMario, there's another eleven versions in the larger volume in addition to what you posted. rich r, thanks for finding the Belden material. I'm not surprized to find out that Bangum and Mr. Frog are related. They seem to be cut from a similar cloth.

Here is Dwight Diller's version, from his album O DEATH, with his very nice banjo and a striking bass accompaniment.

WILD HOG IN THE WOODS

There's a wild hog in yonder woods,
Diddle oh down, diddle oh day,
There's a wild hog in yonder woods,
Diddle oh down, oh day.
There's a wild hog in yonder woods,
Eats(?)your bones, drinks your blood,
Cut him down, cut him down, kill him if you can.

There's a wild hog in yonder mash(marsh),
Cut his way through oak and ash.

Bangum, will you hunt and ride?
Sword and a pistol by your side.

Followed that wild boar day and night,
Swore he'd take a that wild boar's life.

Bangum went to the wild boar's den,
He found the bones of a thousand men.

Fought that wild boar with sword and knife,
Swore he'd take that wild boar's life.

Fought four hours in that day,
The wild boar fled and slunk away.

Bangum drew his wee pen knife,
That was the end of the wild boar's life.

I love that line, "and slunk away"! By the way, I was told that those "wee pen knives" were actually quite lethal, with a six inch, double-edged blade, usually carried up the sleeve or somewhere else hidden from sight. The refrain on Dwight's version is almost the same as that of Mrs. McAlexander's version given by Stewie above. Here's another version, which is very close to Dwight's, using his tune and a very similar banjo style, by Diane Jones, on her album, with Hubie King, called "THERE ARE NO RULES". Dwight Diller was one of her banjo instructors.

WILD HOG

There was a wild hog in yonders woods,
Doodle um day, doodle um day,
There was a wild hog in yonders woods,
Doodle um downey day,
There was a wild hog in yonders woods,
Catch him, boys, don't let him get away,
Cut him down, cut him down, catch him if you can.

Bangun did a huntin' ride,
With a sword and a pistol by his side,

Bangum rode to the wild hog's den,
Where he spied the bones of a thousand men,

Bangum blew his huntin' horn,
And the wild hog crawled through the oak and thorn,

Bangum drew his huntin' knife,
He swore he'd take that wild hog's life,

They fought nine hours on that day,
Until the wild hog bled and slunk away,

Bangum did you win or lose,
He swore, by God, he won his shoes,

There was a wild hog in yonders wood,
Catch him, boys, don't let he get away.

---

23 Aug 02 - 12:20 PM (#770256)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: MMario

Tom - when I've worked my way through 'the singing traditin' then I'm gonna tackle the five volume set - but you know what they say, moderation in all things.

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23 Aug 02 - 04:39 PM (#770428)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

MMario, I surely wasn't rushing you! It's amazing what you've already accomplished. Just wanted to let you know there was some more wild boar out there if you were interested. I say again, I sure wish someone would re-publish these things! It's Mr. Betrand Bronson we're talking about here, and his tunes for the Child ballads. It would be great if somebody could update them at the same time. Where are the patrons of our art?

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23 Aug 02 - 09:24 PM (#770579)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Dwight Diller is a West Virginian. I'm not sure where Diane Jones is from. Here is another version from West Viriginia, collected by Ruth Ann Musick and published in her little book BALLADS, FOLK SONGS & FOLK TALES FROM WEST VIRGINIA, published by the West Virginia University Library in Morgantown, in 1960. She calls this "Rach's Spinning Song", and says that it was "contributed by Mrs. Audrey Jarvis Hinkle of Fairmont(WV) and so titled because she learned it from her grandmother's Negro spinning woman."(p. 23) There is a tune on page 32.

As I went down to the old boar's den,
Hi double O.
I saw the bones of a thousand men,
Hi double O.
Hi full ary, Gilful carry,
Come a double rinctum,
Come a double rinctum, kimbo.

The king went forth with all his men,
He marched right up to the wild boar's den,

The queen, she wept and wrung her hands,
He came not forth from the wild boar's den,

Now, we all a-mournin' stand,
There is no king in all the land,

Where did this come from!

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24 Aug 02 - 07:49 AM (#770720)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Here is a rather interesting exercise in historical speculation/imagination, in which scholars try to calculate what songs "might have been sung" by the original colonists in North Carolina in the seventeeth and early eighteenth centuries. They establish what was in print at the time, i.e. Pepys, etc. and what may have been in oral tradition, and what may have been brought over with the original colonists, and what has survived in contemporary collections, such as Sharp, Brown, Child, Bronson, etc. Our friend, Old Bangum, shows up on the list. See this: charter colonists.

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24 Aug 02 - 08:30 AM (#770727)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Here is another site for "The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove" version, with possibly some additional information Bromsgrove. Also here (scroll down to number two):Bolton.

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24 Aug 02 - 12:23 PM (#770794)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

The Bodelian Library has several copies of "The Wild Boar Hunt" which is an entirely different song.

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24 Aug 02 - 03:02 PM (#770858)
Subject: Lyr Add: WILD HOG
From: John Minear

Here is a Virginia version, from Carroll County, from Miss Ruby Bowman, of Laurel Fork. This was recorded on aluminum disk by A.K. Davis, Jr., on August 11, 1932, just about 70 years ago. It is on page 77, of Davis' MORE TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA. The tune looks to be similar to that of Dwight Diller's version, although I don't read music very well.

"WILD HOG"
^^

There's a wild hog in these woods,
Diddle o down, diddle o day,
There's a wild hog in these woods,
Diddle o down today,
This is a wild hog in these woods
That kills men and sucks their blood,
Kill him tell, cut him down, kill him if you can.

Do you see him a-comin' through yonders mash(marsh),
Diddle o down, diddle o day,
See him a-comin' through yonders mash,
Diddle o down today,
See him a-comin' through yonders mash,
Splittin' his way through oak and ash,
Kill him tell, cut him down, kill him if you can.

I fought him with my wooden knife,
Diddle o down, diddle o day,
I fought him with my wooden knife,
Diddle o down today,
Fought him with my wooden knife,
Before I'd take that wild hog's life,

I followed that groundhog(!) to yonders bend,
Diddle o down, diddle o day,
I followed him to yonders bend,
Diddle o down today,
Followed that groundhog to yonders bend,
And there lay the bones of a thousand men,
I kill him tell, cut him down, kill him if I can.

Not only has the wild boar become a groundhog in this version, but the action has become first person as well. I wonder if there is a crossover version somewhere that mixes with the song "Groundhog". You could almost sing some of the "Old Bangum" versions to the tune of "Groundhog", if you dropped the refrains.

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24 Aug 02 - 03:18 PM (#770867)
Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: WILD HOG IN THE WOODS
From: John Minear

Here is another reference to Ruby Bowman's version, as well as information on "Old Bangum" as a fiddle tune. This is from The Fiddler's Companion website (Ceolas)Fiddler. I've not heard this as a fiddle tune before.

OLD BANGUM. AKA and see "Wild Hog in the Woods," "Bangum."

WILD HOG IN THE WOODS [1]. AKA and see "Old Bangum." Old-Time, Breakdown. USA, southwestern Va., Kentucky. A Dorian (Phillips): D Dorian (Fuzzy Mtn. String Band). AEAE or GDGD (Taylor Kimble). One part. Alan Jabbour says (regarding some instrumental versions) the tune is "almost certainly" an instrumental adaptation of the tune used in the Appalachians for the ballad "Bangum and the Boar" (Child 18) or "Old Bangum." There are words collected by Henry Galssie in 1962 from Mrs. Ruby Bowman Plemmons (Washington, D.C.), who learned them from her mother who lived in Laurel Fork, southwestern Va. Another version was recorded for the Library of Congress from Dan Tate. Guthrie Meade (1980) points out the tune's high part is the same as the tune "Fun's All Over."
***

There is a wild hog in yonders woods
(diddle on down, diddle on day)
There is a wild hog in yonders woods
(diddleon down the day)
There is a wild hog in these woods,
That eats men and seeks their blood.
(Cut him down, cut him down, catch/kill him if you can).
***

There comes a wild hog through yonders mash (marsh?)
Splitting his way through oaks and ash.
***

We followed that wild hog to his den,
Found the bones of a thousand men.
***

We followed that wild hog day and night,
Swore we'd make that wild hog fight.
***

We killed that hog with sticks and knife,
Swore we'd take that wild hog's life.
***

Source for notated version: Taylor Kimble (Va.) [Phillips]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), Vol. 2, 1995; pg. 171. Flying Fish FF-275, "The Blue Flame Stringband" (1982. Learned from Pete Sutherland). Heritage XXXIII, Kimble Family (Va.) - "Visits" (1981). Marimac 9000, Dan Gellert & Shoofly - "Forked Deer" (1986. Learned from Brad Leftwich). Marimac 9036, the Kimble Family - "Carroll County Pioneers." Rounder 0010, The Fuzzy Mountain String Band (1972. Learned from southwestern Va. fiddler Taylor Kimble).

WILD HOG IN THE WOODS [2]. Old-Time, Breakdown. USA, Kentucky. F Major. Standard. AABB. The tune was also recorded by Charlie Wilson and His Hayloft Boys on a Gennett 78 RPM disc. Source for notated version: Lonesome Luke and His Farmhands (Ky.) [Phillips]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), Vol. 1, 1994; pg. 257. Champion 16229 & Gennett Records (78 RPM), Lonesome Luke and His Farm Hands {Ky} (1931. Backed with "Dogs in the Ashcan"). Morning Star 45004, Lonesome Luke & His Farmhands - "Wish I Had My Time Again." Marimac 9047, Mac Benford - "1st 1/2 C."
T:Wild Hog in the Woods
L:1/8
M:4/4
S:Pete Sutherland
K:F
ACDE FGAc | dAcd AF3 | G4 G4 | GFEF EDC2 |
ACDE FGAc | dAcd AF3 | A3c AFG2 | F8 :|
|: f4 f4 | fedc Ac3 | f4 f4 | fdcd f2d2
f4 f4 | fedc Ac3 | E2d2 cAG2 | F8 :|

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24 Aug 02 - 04:52 PM (#770918)
Subject: Lyr Add: BANGUM RODE THE RIVERSIDE
From: raredance

There are two versions in "Ballads and Folk songs of the Suthwest" by Ethel and Chauncey O. Moore (1964, U of Oklahoma Press). Here is the shorter first one. The second will follow when I get it typed.

BANGUM RODE THE RIVERSIDE

(sung by Mrs. Paul Hightower fo Sallisaw. She learned it from her grandfather who was from Virginia.

Bangum rode the riverside,
Didley, O day dum
Bangum rode the riverside,
With two horses and a slide,
Quadley O que, quidley O quey,
Didley, O day dum.

There's a wild hog in these woods,
Bangum chased him to his den
And found the bones of a thousand men.

Bangum drew his wooden knife,
Bangum drew his wooden knife,
Swore he'd take that wild hog's life.

rich r

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24 Aug 02 - 05:10 PM (#770933)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

Jody Stecher sings a version with an amusing mis-hearing in the second line, about which he says "'Blow your horn center,' whatever that means, is the perpetual second line of all verses."

Egrabel he had three sons
Blow your horn center
Old bangum he was one
Just like a jovial hunter.

Old Bangum did by Towwood ride
A lady in a tree he spied
What keeps you here, my gay lady?
The Torwood boar has captured me.

He'd eat your flesh and drink your blood
And drag your bones around the wood
How many has he killed of thee?
He's killed my lord and thirty-three.

The rest at Old Bangum (and John Detroy)
A midi of the Stecher version from Sing Out! V.44#2 is at Old Bangum

Tablature of "Bangum" by Gordon Banks at Bangum

The Sharp coll. 1916 variant of Sir Lionel is in Contemplator Sir Lionel

This may already have been posted but a variant of "The Wild Hog" is in the Max Hunter Coll.: Wild Hog

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24 Aug 02 - 05:18 PM (#770937)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

Sorry! Midi of Stecher: Old Bangum

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24 Aug 02 - 06:56 PM (#771006)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Dicho, Stecher got that line, "Blow your horn, Center", from the Sam Harmon version I discussed above. I don't know whether Stecher knew what it meant or not, but I'm sure that "Center" is a name - see Rena Hicks version above - the name of Abram Bailey's third son (or "Abe and Bailey's" third son). I also think that this refrain, apart from Stecher's borrowing of it, is unique to the Hicks/Harmon family from Beech Mountain, North Carolina. And I think that "Center" was a family name taken from a cousin of Sam Harmon and Nathan Hicks, Rena Hicks' husband, a man named Center Hicks, the son of Hiram Hicks.

If Herb Halpert, who recorded the song from Sam Harmon for the Library of Congress in 1939, knew what the refrain met, he failed to note it anywhere. When Bronson picked up Sam Harmon's version for his book on the Child tunes, he confessed that he was puzzled over the refrain and could make nothing of it, guessing along the lines of "centaur", etc. Peggy Seeger, who recorded this song for THE LONG HARVEST collection, told me recently that she never knew what the refrain meant. Sandy Paton, who recorded the version posted above by Buna Hicks, which also has the refrain, "Blow your horn, Center", declines to speculate on the meaning of it other than to suggest that it is similar to "Blow your horns, hunter" in a version recorded by Alfred Williams, in FOLK SONGS OF THE UPPER THAMES.

The Buna Hicks version, the Rena Hicks version, and the Sam Harmon version, all come from a common, family background. Stecher borrowed the refrain and many of the verses, as well as the basic tune for his version, which I would assume is a composite one. I like Stecher's version, especially the added second bass voice on the refrains, and the fact that it is sung unaccompanied.

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24 Aug 02 - 08:40 PM (#771052)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

Center as a name does sound logical. It is unlikely that "hunter" would be used when it appears in the 4th line and "centaur" would bring a new element into Bangum.
The Stecher version is the most amusing of the lot, with echoes of the wild David Crockett tales (David because Crockett hated "Davy"). Here are the remaining Stecher verses:

How can I this wild boar see?
Wind well thy horn, he'll come to thee.
He put his horn up to his mouth
Old Bangum blew it north and south.

He blew it high into the air
The wild hog heard it in his lair
The wild boar came in such a rush
Tearin' his way through the oak and ash.

Old Bangum caught him by his tail
And with a hickory him did flail
They fought four hours of the day
And at last the wild hog run away.

Old Bangum traced him to his den
There he found the bones of a thousand men
Old Bangum drew his wooden knife
He rid that wild boar of his life.

The wild boar roared out such a sound
That all the oak and ash fell down
Come a wild woman over the brig
You rogue you've killed my darlin' pig.

Now there's three things I'll have of thee
Your hawk, your hound and your gay lady
These three things you'll not have of me
She flew at him ferociously
He split the old witch wife to the chin
And on his way he did begin.

(Six lines in the last verse? Have I split it up wrong or is something missing in the text at the website I copied?

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24 Aug 02 - 09:41 PM (#771075)
Subject: Lyr Add: WILD HOG
From: John Minear

Dicho, I like the David Crockett analogy. Especially with the verse that goes:

Old Bangum caught him by his tail
And with a hickory him did flail

I've never seen this verse before and I suspect that Jody Stecher may have contributed it to the tradition. Along with "darlin'" pig!

Here's another version recorded by A.K. Davis, Jr. on April 13, 1933. It was sung by Mrs. Martha Elizabeth Gibson, of Crozet, Virginia, which is just up the road from me. It was also collected by Fred F. Knobloch on May 1, 1931.

"WILD HOG"

There was a wild hog in the woods
Dillum down dillum,
He'll eat your meat, he'll drink your blood,
Come to quarl (quarrel), cuddle down,
Kill de qual, quam.

Old Lanktum went out on the hill,
He blowed his horn both loud and shrill.

That wild hog came in such a dash,
He cut his way through oak and ash,

Old Lanktum followed him to his den,
He found the bones of a thousand men.

Old Lanktum drew his rusty(lusty, trusty)knife,
For to 'prive that wild hog of his life.

This is on pages 75 & 76 of MORE TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA, with music.

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24 Aug 02 - 10:30 PM (#771095)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Stewie

Dicho, in respect of line structure, Stecher sings it throughout in 2-line stanzas (4 lines with refrains) - Larry Hanks sings refrains with him:

Now there's three things I'll have of thee
Blow your horn Center
Your hawk your hound and your gay lady
As he was a jovial hunter

These three things you'll not have of me
Blow your horn Center
She flew at him ferociously
As he was a jovial hunter

--Stewie.

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24 Aug 02 - 10:57 PM (#771103)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

That fills it in, Stewie. The "Blow your horn, Center" is missing twice at the website I copied.

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24 Aug 02 - 11:06 PM (#771105)
Subject: Lyr Add: OLD BANGUM
From: raredance

OLD BANGUM
(sung by A H Pittser of Shamrock) from Ballads and Folk Songs of the Southwest

Old Bangum would a-hunting go,
Come away cuddle down.
Old Bangum would a-hunting go,
Come away.
Old Bangum would a-hunting go;
No braver man ever drew a bow.
Cuddle down, kill-a-quaw-queen.

Old Bangum put his horn to his mouth,
And blew a blast both east and west.

The wild boar heard him in his den,
And he made the oak tree come to an end.

There is a wild boar in the woods,
He'll kill you and suck your blood.

Old Bangum on this wild boar fell,
They fought three hours like fiends from hell.

Old Bangum drew his wooden knife,
And freed the wild boar of his life.

They tracked this wild boar to his den,
And found the skulls of a thousand men.

Long come an old witch inquiring of her spotted pig,
If you kill me I'll make you dance a jig.

rich r

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25 Aug 02 - 07:30 AM (#771208)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

rich r, thanks for the two versions from the Southwest. I especially like these two verses from the last one:

Old Bangum on this wild boar fell,
They fought three hours like fiends from hell.

Long come an old witch inquiring of her spotted pig,
If you kill me I'll make you dance a jig.

And the first verse is interesting, in that Bangum is also a bowman. I've seen somewhere, in a footnote that I can't find, that the "wooden knife" is really a "woodsman's knife". That takes a lot of the charm out of the song for me. I much prefer a "wooden knife". It is interesting that Bangum never uses his pistol, even when he rides out with a "sword and pistol by his side". In fact I don't know of any versions where Bangum shoots the wild boar with a firearm.

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25 Aug 02 - 11:00 AM (#771262)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Here is a version from Middle Tennessee (you know that there are three Tennessees: East Tennessee, Middle Tennessee, and West Tennessee, with very different cultures and histories). It comes from FOLK SONGS OF MIDDLE TENNESSEE, The George Boswell Collection, edited by Charles K. Wolfe, and published by the University of Tennessee Press in Knoxville. Sorry, once again I don't have a date, but it's not real old. The head notes say:

"This version was collected from Clara Hamner in Clarksville on December 10, 1953. She had learned it from her mother, Marion Henry Hamner, who had been born in Clarksville in 1908. Marian(sic)Henry had learned it from her mother, Clara McCauley, born in the Clarksville area around 1882."

There is a wild boar in these woods,
Dellum dare, dellum,
He'll grind your bones and suck your blood,
Dellum dare, dellum,
Kitty ki, kum, (cudle down - on some verses).

Old Bangum, will you ride,
With sword and pistol by your side?

For to seek the wild boar in his den,
And there you'll find the bones of a thousand men,

Old Bangum took his wooden gun,
For to shoot the wild boar as he run,

Old Bangum took his wooden knife,
For to take away that wild boar's life,

Old Bangum took his wooden horn,
Old Bangum took his wooden horn,

Old Bangum blew both loud and shrill,
The wild boar heard on Temple Hill,

The wild boar came with such a rush,
He tore his way through brake and brush,

They fought all day and they fought all night,
The wild boar fled in the morning light,

He tracked the wild boar to his den,
And there he saw the bones of a thousand men,

Old Bangum slew that wild boar then,
And he saved the lives of a thousand men.

There is a tune, and you will find all of this on pages 8-10. It is interesting that Bangum does take a gun with him on this particular hunt, but that it is a "wooden" gun, along with his "wooden" knife and horn. Little boys have wooden knives, guns and perhaps horns. It is also interesting that by slaying this boar, Bangum saves the lives of a thousand men, even though a thousand have already paid dearly.

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25 Aug 02 - 08:16 PM (#771466)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

This is a good summary of both Bronson and other sources with regard to "Sir Lionel", from MORE TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA, edited by Arthur Kyle Davis, Jr., 1960, pp. 72-73. Obviously, there has been some progress since this was written, but probably not much, and that was 42 years ago now! When were most of our resourcs printed? Has there been much of anything in the last 30 or 40 years?

"Child prints four more or less full texts and two fragmentary ones, none of them having much in common with the American ones. His texts are all English, except one which is Scottish. A few English texts have been found in recent tradition (see Margaret Dean-Smith) but none in Scotland (see LAST LEAVES). Coffin indicates rather meager gleanings in America. Sharp prints four tunes with very brief texts from the Southern Appalachians. Only one two-stanza text (no tune) appears in the Brown Collection (II, 46). TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA prints seven texts and four tunes. From more recent collection in Viriginia, there are six additional items, including four tunes, three of them from records....

Bronson (I,265-74) prints seventeen tunes (with texts) and divides them into three groups: Group A, of only two members, one mid-nineteenth-century Scottish and one twentieth-century American[Harmon], either retains the more dignified romantic tone of the ballad or the interlaced refrain concerning the hunter; Group B, with only a single specimen from D'Urfey, harks back to the seventeenth-century ballad of "Sir Eglamore" and has a distinctinve stanzaic pattern with interlaced refrain lines; and Group C contains fourteen numbers, two British and the rest American, all collected in this century and representing the "Bangum and the Boar" tradition, with stanzaic patterns and elaborate nonsense refrains with suggest either the "Sir Eglamore" pattern or a crossing with "The Frog's Wedding." The four texts with tunes from TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA all fall into Group C.

After a quick survey of older and more recent versions, chiefly with respect to words and stanzaic patterns, Bronson concludes: "Obviously, there has either been a complete break here with older tradition, or the traditional antecedents are not represented in the examples printed by Child." He inclines to the latter alternative, and supports his case by an account of what has happened to the narrative before the proceeds to his musical analysis and classification indicated above."

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26 Aug 02 - 07:47 AM (#771657)
Subject: Lyr Add: SIR LIONEL
From: John Minear

Here is the last of the four versions of "Sir Lionel" given in Arthur K. Davis' MORE TRADITIONAL BALLADS FROM VIRGINIA, pp. 73-74. This comes from Miss Margaret Purcell, of Greenwood, Virginia, in Albemarle County. This is right next to Crozet, and just up the road from me. It was recorded in May of 1934. It had been printed previously with a slightly different tune and text in TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA, pp. 127-28, 558-59.

Old Bangem would a hunting ride,
Dillum down dillum,
Old Bangem would a hunting ride,
Dillum down,
Old Bangem would a hunting ride,
Sword and pistol by his side,
Cubby ki cuddie down,
Killy quo quam.

"There is a wild boar in this wood,
Will eat your meat and suck your blood."

"O how shall I this wild boar see"
"Blow a blast and he'll come to thee."

Old Bangem blew both loud and shrill,
The wild boar heard on Temple Hill.

The wild boar came with such a rush,
He tore down hickory, oak and ash.

Old Bangem drew his wooden knife,
He said that he would take his life.

"Old Bangem, did you win or lose?"
He said that he had won the shoes.

MMario has the earlier version as example 2 in his listings from Bronson above, collected in 1913. I don't see any difference in the text. This version comes from Miss Purcell's great-grandfather, from around 1760. Where is "Temple Hill"? And does winning one's "shoes" mean the same as "winning one's spurs"?

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26 Aug 02 - 06:27 PM (#771955)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Jon Bartlett

Two points: the first post to this thread gives the DT versions. I posted the "Wild Boar" thread (and this should be added to DT if some Joe-clone with the proper authorization is reading this) from the singing of Bob Webb, learned from him in the mid 70's.

The second point: (and far more intriguing). Child worried long and hard over how to organize his collection, and wrote several times to Grundtvig in Denmark asking for his suggestions (since Grundtvig was the Danish "Child" who had pulled together and organized all extant Danish ballads in a fashion similar to Child). Grundtvig suggested Sir Lionel (= Bangum) as Child 1, a representative of the class of heroic ballads in interleaved couplet form, which he thought the oldest. His suggested list is Appendix B to Sigurd Hustvedt's "Ballad Books and Ballad Men" (Harvard UP, 1930). Appendix A is the complete correspondence between Child and Grundtvig, and is a great read.

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26 Aug 02 - 08:10 PM (#772013)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Jon, thanks very much for letting us know about your posting of "Wild Boar". Since I'm interested in how these songs travel, can you say a little about Bob Webb and where he might have found the song? Your second point is fascinating. I would vote with Grundtvig making "Sir Lionel" number one. Although it would be hard to do that without knowing any of the American "Bangum" songs. I've never understood why Child ignored the American songs. I confess I have not read any studies about him. But surely he knew of the existence of American balladry - even at Harvard! (I can only say that because my daughter is an alum, and yes I'm bragging, about her, not about Harvard).

Here are the four examples collected by Cecil Sharp in this country. One is from North Carolina, from the Big Laurel country in Madison County; one is from Woodridge, Virginia; and two are from Kentucky.

The first one was sung by Mrs. Tom Rice, on August 16, 1916, at Big Laurel. It has a very unusual tune.

Bangry Rewey a courting did ride,
His sword and pistol by his side.
Cambo key quiddle dow, quill o quon.

Bangry rode to the wild boar's den
And there spied the bones of a thousand men.

Then Bangry drew his wooden knife
To spear the wild boar of his life.

-----
The next one was sung by Mrs. Betty Smith and Mr, N.B. Chisholm, on September 27, 1916, at Woodridge, Virginia. It doesn't say whether they sang the song together or not. That would have been unusual.

There is a wild boar in these woods,
Dellum down, dellum down,
There is a wild boar in these woods,
He'll eat your meat and suck your blood.
Dellum down, dellum down.

Bangrum drew his wooden knife
And swore he'd take the wild boar's life.

The wild boar came in such a flash,
He broke his way through oak and ash.

--------
This one was sung by Mrs. Mollie Broghton, at Barbourville, Knox County, Kentucky, on May 10, 1917.

I went out a hunting one day,
Dellum down, dillum,
I went out a hunting one day,
And I found there where a wild boar lay,
Come a call, cut him down,
Quilly quo qua.

I hunted over hills and mountains,
And there I found him on his way.

The wild boar came in such a dash,
He cut his way through oak and ash.

I called up my army of men;
He killed one, two three score of them.

----
And finally, from Miss Violet Henry, of Berea, Madison County, Kentucky, Sharp collected this version on May 21, 1917.

O Bangum would a hunting ride,
Cubby kye, cudda'
O bangum would a hunting ride,
Cuddal down
O Bangum would a hunting ride,
Sword and pistol by his side,
Cubby kye, cuddal down, killy quo quam.

There must have been more verses to this last one, although Bronson does not add any and he usually does if he finds more in Sharp's notes. I find that to be a very frustrating thing about Mr. Sharp, that often he would only print a verse or two. I understand about repetition and costs. But there are so many times when I wish I had the whole song from a particular person. I understand that in some cases they were recorded in his notes, but he chose not to publish the whole thing. Unfortunately his notes are a long way off and not easily accessible. I wonder if anyone will ever publish any more of his Amercian materials.

All four of these songs are reprinted in Bronson's Volume I, of his book on the tunes of the Child ballads.

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27 Aug 02 - 04:57 AM (#772189)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Jon Bartlett

We ran a weekly coffeehouse (the Green Cove) here in Vancouver BC in the early seventies. I met Bob Webb (who at that time was singing with Dick Owings) at the San Diego Folk Festival run by Lou Curtiss at about that time; we sang a bunch of shanties together (and I think Andy Wallace was there too). I suggested that he come up to Vancouver to sing and he did. He eventually moved here, and got married (he and I and our spouses did a big joint wedding). He wrote a scholarly book on whaling here, too, and a history of the banjo (for MIT Press, which really impressed me!). He moved back east and worked I believe in a whaling museum on the east coast. I don't know where his "Wild Boar" came from, tho I think it's the most interesting (from a musical point of view) of the versions we have here in the Ballad Collection. He's got a website site these days at http://www.bobwebb.net/recordings.html

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27 Aug 02 - 06:33 AM (#772218)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: open mike

robin and linda williams do a versiion of wild hog in yonders wood-- and as i recall the people who put on the Kinetic Sculpture Race (http://www.humguide.com/kinetic/index.shtml) also sponsor a wild boar hunt which is a period costume and general all out spectacle as i remember seeing an article about it in the "Go For The Glory" souvenier booklet about the sculpture race- which is a kooky race of human powered vehicles which are amphibious--this is remotely related to boars .

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27 Aug 02 - 07:42 AM (#772234)
Subject: Lyr Add: BOLD SIR RYLAS
From: John Minear

Jon, thanks for the background on Bob Webb. It's so easy to separate the songs from the singers and lose at least half of what is important. If the tradition is alive, it's got feet somewhere. And it seems to me that that is especially the case with this song.

open mike, I'd like to see what Robin and Linda Williams do. I used to live near Boulder, CO, and they had something like what you describe with regard to the Kinetic Sculpture Race.
----

In his liner notes for Buna Hicks' version of "Sir Lionel", which is in the DT as Rena Hicks' version, Sandy Paton compares Buna Hicks' song with one collected by Alfred Williams on the Upper Thames, and then compares these to the Bromsgrove version (Child C). I'd like to share Sandy's discussion, but first I'll post Williams' version. I went to the library yesterday and found his book, as well as Robert Bell's EARLY BALLADS, which contains the Brosmsgrove version. Here is "Bold Sir Rylas", pages 118-119, in FOLK-SONGS OF THE UPPER THAMES, collected and edited by Alfred Williams, and published in London by Duckworth & Co. It was published in 1923, but the songs had been collected between 1914 and 1916, the War having interrupted the publication process. No tune is given.

BOLD SIR RYLAS

Bold Sir Rylas a-hunting went
I an dan dilly dan,
Bold Sir Rylas a-hunting went
Killy koko an,
Bold Sir Rylas a-hunting went,
To kill some game was his intent
I an dan dilly dan killy koko an.

He saw a wild woman sat in a tree:
Good lord, what brings thee here? said she.
I an dan dilly dan killy koko an.

There is a wild boar all in this wood,
He'll eat thy flesh and drink thy blood,
As thee beest a jovial hunter.

What shall I do this wild boar to see?
Why! Wind thy horn and he'll come to thee,
As thee beest a jovial hunter.

He put his horn unto his mouth,
And blew it east, north, west, and south
I an dan dilly dan killy doko an.

The wild boar heard him to his den,
And out came with young ones nine or ten
I an dan dilly dan killy koko an.

Then bold Sir Rylas this wild boar fell on
He fought him three hours by the day,
Till the wild boar fain would have run away
I an dan dilly dan killy koko an.

Now, since thou hast killed my spotted pig
There are three things I will have of thee:
That's thy horse, thy hounds, and thy fair lady,
As thee beest a jovial hunter.

Now, since I have killed thy spotted pig
There's nothing thou shalt have of me,
Neither my horse, hounds, nor fair lady,
As I am a jovial hunter.

Then bold Sir Rylas this wild woman fell on
He split her head down to her chin,
You ought to have seen her kick and grin
I an dan dilly dan killy koko an.

Mr. Williams says that this is "A very old song, formerly popular in North Wilts, especially around Bradon, where it is still sung by the local traveller and dealer, Daniel Morgan. Morgan's great-grandfather was a squire, and he disinherited his son and also attempted to shoot him, lying in wait for him for three days and nights with a loaded gun, because he courted a pretty gipsy girl. In spite of the squire's opposition, however, his son married the gipsy lass and left home to travel with his wife's kindred and earn his living by dealing, and attending the markets and fairs. Daniel Morgan, of whom I obtained Sir Rylas, is a witty and vivacious man. He lives amid the woods of Bradon, the relic of the once large forest of that name, in which the famous Fulke Fitzwarrene is said to have defied the King at the time of the Barons' War. I have spent pleasant hours in the cottage, during the dark winter evenings, listening to the old man's songs, which he sang sitting on a low stool cutting out clothes-pegs from green withy, while his wife sat opposite making potato nets. The "I an dan dilly," etc., is meant to interpret the sound of the bugle horn." (page 118)

While this song was published in 1923 and Sam Harmon was recorded by Herbert Halpert in 1939, it is clear that Sam didn't learn his version from Mr. Morgan, but that they are two shoots off of an older stem, both probably coming from the 19th century. Sam Harmon's family left the Beech Mountain area of North Carolina in 1880, and probably carried the song from there, since a version of it remained behind and was later recorded from Buna Hicks by Sandy Paton. Nathan Hicks, who was Rena's husband, also knew a version.

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28 Aug 02 - 07:41 AM (#772825)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Sandy Paton, in his liner notes for Buna Hicks' "Sir Lionel" on THE TRADITIONAL MUSIC OF BEECH MOUNTAIN, NORTH CAROLINA, Vol. 1, from Folk-Legacy (FSA-22), has done a very nice job of comparing three of these ballads. He talks about the relationship between the Hicks' version and that of Sam Harmon, and then he goes on to say the following.

"Child's text was taken from the recitation of a Benjamin Brown in Worcestershire, England, in 1845, although the date of that recovery has no pertinence to the antiquity of the ballad. Indeed, in his notes, Child remarks that the "ballad has much in common with the romance of 'Sir Eglamour of Artois'."

Sandy goes on to say, "Alfred Williams, in FOLK SONGS OF THE UPPER THAMES, prints a version from North Wilts which also resembles the Child text. A comparison of these several versions proves interesting. The hero in Child's "C" text is "Sir Ryalas"; in Williams' version the name is "Sir Rylas"' in our version (Buna Hicks) he is not named.[In Rena Hicks' version, he is named "Center"]. The refrain lines in Child are quite comparable to ours (one can speculate on the change of something like "Blow your horns, hunter" to the "Blow you horn, Center" sung by Mrs. Hicks), [Rena Hicks' version being the connecting link, which makes "Center" the third Son of Abram Bailey, aka Sir Robert Bolton, etc.] while the Williams text demonstrates the beginnings of the nonsense refrain generally associated with the widely known "Old Bangum" versions of the ballad, in that what Williams describes as an interpretation of the sound of the horn is occasionally inserted ("I an dan dilly dan killy koko an"). In the "old Bangum" versions, of course, the once dramatic battle between the heroic knight and the vicious wild boar becomes farcical, with all traces of magic or witchcraft removed and the poor hero wielding a wooden knife. Child's text has Sir Ryalas attacked by a "wild woman", following his victory over the wild boar, "and he fairly split her head in twain". Williams' Sir Rylas is also attacked by a "wild woman" and he "split her head down to the chin". In our version, the wild woman has become a "witch-wife" whose head is split "to the chin". Our text appears to be nearer to the Child text in some respects, while sharing several variations with the Williams text. Perhaps our version came to Amrica prior to the influence of the anonymous folk artist who first decided to add the sounds of the horn to the ballad, the interpolation of which eventually may have led to the comic "Old Bangum" versions with their odd refrains, so often sounding like a young Latin scholar conjugating his verbs rather than an imitation of a hunter's bugle, and the Williams text represents a surprising recovery of a transitional form of the ballad still being sung in England in the early part of this century. At any rate, all three are parts of a darned rare specimen of the ancient tradition." (pp. 11-12)[the editorial comments in brackets being from TOM]

At this point, we ought to also bring in the version posted above from Sheila Kay Adams, which she got from Bobby McMillon. This verion is closer to the Williams verison and seems to be a part of that transition that Sandy is talking about.

THE WILD BOAR

Bingham Bailey had three sons
Fal-a-day, fal-a-day, fal-a-rinks-dum-a-dairy-o
Bingham Bailey had three sons,
Willie was the youngest one
Fal-a-day, fal-a-day, fal-a-rinks-dum-a-dairy-o.

Willie would a hunting ride
With a sword and pistol by his side.

One day up on the greenwood side
Up in a tree a lady spied

What are you doing up in that tree?
I see you there my gay lady.

There be's a wild boar in these woods
He kilt my lord and he drunk his blood.

And how might I this wild boar see?
Just blow thy horn, he'll come to thee.

He popped his bugle to his mouth
And he blew it long both north and south

Over yander he comes through the bresh
He's a cutting his way through the oak and ash

They fit the fight up in the day
And in the end the boar he slayed

They rode down by the wild boar's den
And spied the bones of a thousand men.

They met the witch-wife on the bridge
"Be gone you rogue, you've kilt my pig!"

Hit's these three things I crave of thee
Thy hawk, thy hound, thy gay lady.

Hit's these three things you can't have from me
My hawk, my hound, my gay lady.

Into his locks the witch wife flew
"You durned old rogue I will kill you!"

He split the witch-wife to the chin
Then hit's up behind and away again.

They's a piece of corn bread a-laying on the shelf
If you want more sung, you'll have to sing it yourself.

This version picks up that verse about "into his locks she flew..." from the Child C version. The tune for this version is much different from the Harmon/Hicks' version, and is much more bouncy.

Sandy, if you happen to be looking at any of this, I'd welcome any additional comments and insight that you may have.

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28 Aug 02 - 11:49 AM (#772964)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Here are some excerpts from an introduction to the romance of "Sir Eglamour of Artois". Child has suggested that his number 18, "Sir Lionel", may be based on this romance.

"Sir Eglamour of Artois tells a familiar story of lovers separated by a disapproving father, their vicissitudes and eventual marriage in a triumph of faithful love. Despite its French locale, the poem seems to be of English origin; it has no known French analogues or antecedents. The romance was probably produced around 1350 somewhere in the northeast Midlands, perhaps in Yorkshire. To judge from the number of surviving manuscripts (six) and prints (four), it was widely known and well liked. The story's appeal is further attested by references to Eglamour in writings from the Middle Ages and Renaissance and the existence of other romances which show its influence: Emaré, Torrent of Portengale, and The Squire of Low Degree. The narrative was dramatized, for a London chronicle records that a play of Eglamour and Degrebelle was performed at St. Albans in 1444. The story circulated in ballads and one episode found in the romance may still live in Kentucky ballad tradition as "Bangum and the Boar...."

The story is given further moral and structural cohesion since the tests Egalmour undergoes form a graduated series developed in a parallel manner. Each combat is more difficult and lasts longer than the preceding one, and in each his opponents are more deserving of destruction. Eglamour easily slays the hart in the giant Arrok's dolorous forest and dispatches him after a day of battle. The boar is further away, in Sidon, and as Eglamour approaches, he finds the dismembered bodies of the beast's earlier opponents. The boar kills the knight's horse and requires three days to subdue, but his eradication is a great boon to the country which he had ravaged. In a further combat, undertaken of his own chivalrous volition, Eglamour defeats the boar's giant owner who has been demanding the king's daughter, Organata. After these trials, the knight requires a month's recuperation. The dragon of Rome is Eglamour's most formidable opponent - the most unnatural and destructive of all. The serpent has ravaged a whole city, the very center of Christendom. In this battle, not only is Eglamour's horse slain, but he himself is wounded, which Edmund Reiss suggests is punishment for his sin. The wound requires a year of healing in the care of the Emperor's daughter."

You can find more here: Sir Eglamour of Artois

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29 Aug 02 - 08:23 AM (#773512)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

In the posting above from Ceolas on "Old Bangum" as a fiddle tune, they say: "Another version was recorded for the Library of Congress from Dan Tate." Does anybody have Dan Tate's version? It is not clear in that posting whether the lyrics that they give are from him or not.

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30 Aug 02 - 07:33 AM (#774165)
Subject: Lyr Add: BANGUM AND THE BOAR
From: John Minear

Does anyone know if Dan Tate's Library of Congress recording of "Old Bangum" was even released commercially? I know that he was recorded by a number of people, one of whom was Fletcher Collins.

In the quote from Jody Stecher above, he mentioned that one of his favorite versions was from G.D. Vowell of Harlan, Kentucky. This was recorded by Alan and Elizbeth Lomax in 1937, and is on the record edited by Bertrand Bronson for the Library of Congress called CHILD BALLADS TRADITIONAL IN THE UNITED STATES, Vol. 1, (L57). It's available from the Library of Congress on cassette. [Don't try to order it through the mail, you'll never get it because of the anthrax stuff. Call the LOC, or email them and ask how you can order. The don't accept telephone orders but will maybe work with you otherwise.]

"BANGUM AND THE BOAR"

There's a wild boar in these woods,
Down a dillum down a dillum
There's a wild boar in these woods,
Down a dillum, cuddly down
Caddy-0 squam.

He'll eat your meat and he'll drink your blood,
And drag your bones around the woods

Old Bangum drew with his wooden knife
He swore he'd take this wild boar's life,

How is a body to find him?
Down a dillum down a dillum
How is a body to find him?
Down a dillum cuddly down
Caddy-O squam.

Just clap your horn to your mouth
And blow a blast both North and South

Old Bangum clapped his horn to his mouth
And he blew a blast both North and South

The wild boar came with such a dash
The he cut his way through oak and ash

They fought four hours of the day
And at last the wild boar went away

Old Bangum followed him to the mouth of his den
And he saw the bones of a thousand men

He rolled a stone in the mouth of the wild boar's den
To save the life of a thousand men

After a while a lot of these different versions begin to look the same. But it is worth paying attention to the details because that is where each one is interesting. In this case, "He'll eat your meat and drink your blood, and drag your bones around the woods", and "what's a body to do?" There does appear to be a line missing from this latter verse, but this is how Mr. Vowell sings it. Old Bangum "claps his horn to his mouth". And especially the last verse, where he almost seems to take a Biblical approach in his unique way of dealing with the wild boar, "He rolled a stone in the mouth of the wild boar's den." Mr. Vowell sings his version unaccompanied, and while he seems a bit rushed at times, it is an excellent song.

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31 Aug 02 - 08:13 AM (#774760)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

In the last posting, "Vermont Bangham" should have been a blue click to take you back to rich r's posting, but I didn't do it right. His posting was above on August 21.

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01 Sep 02 - 08:18 AM (#775121)
Subject: Lyr Add: OLD BANGUM (from Jean Ritchie)
From: John Minear

On her CHILD BALLADS IN AMERICA, Vol. 1, put out by Folkways Records, Album FA 2301 (now available from Smithsonian Folkways), Jean Ritchie sings a version of "Old Bangum" learned from her mother's cousin, Ellen Fields.

"OLD BANGUM"

Bangum rid by the riverside
Dillum down dillum
Three young ladies there he spied
Dillum down dillum
Killy ko cuddle down
Killy ko corn.

There's a wild boar in these woods,
Who'll eat his meat, 'll suck his blood.

If you would this wild boar see
Blow a blast, he'll come to thee.

Slapped the horn into his mouth,
Blew a blast both North and South.

Wild boar come in such a rush,
Split his way through oak and ash.

Fit four hours by the day,
At last the wild boar run away.

Old Bangum follered him to his den,
Saw the bones of a thousand men.

Jean sings a very different version on her children's album, JEAN RITCHIE, CHILDHOOD SONGS, put out in 1991 by Greenhays Recordings(marketed by Flying Fish Records). This version sounds British and is called "Olde Bangum". This is one in which Bangum goes after a dragon.

In the introductory notes to her Child ballads, she says:

"Back in the days when Balis and Abigail Ritchie's big family was "a-bornin' and a-growin'," none of them had ever heard of Francis J. Child, nor had anyone else in that part of the Kentucky Mountains, I believe. The word 'ballad', or 'ballit' meant, in our community, the written-down words for a song. I remember hearing one old lady near home say proudly to another, "Now I've got Barbry Ellen up there in my trunk. Joe's Sally stopped in and she writ me out the ballit of it."

"Writing out the ballit" for our family songs was rarely done. All of us, Mom, Dad, and all thirteen children could write, but these old songs and their music were in our head, or hearts, or somewhere part of us, and we never needed to write them down. They were there, like games and rhymes and riddles, like churning-chants and baby-bouncers and gingerbread stackcake recipes, to be employed and enjoyed when the time came for them. Nobody got scholarly about them and I have a feeling that's why they have been genuinely popular all these years.

These old story songs, now. We sang and listened to them, for themselves. For the excitement of the tale, or the beauty and strength of the language or of the graceful tunes, for the romantic tingle we got from a glimpse of life in the long-ago past, for the uncanny way the old, old situatins still stir the present. Heads nodding over Lord Thomas and Fair Ellender. "Ain't that right, no? That's j'st what he ort to a-done to her!"

As I remember, it took a special time for us to appreciate these "big" ballads. Of course, we hummed them about the housework, and when walking along the roads, and in the fields, but that wasn't really singing them out. It had to be a quiet time for that, as when the family gathered on the front porch, evenings, and after awhile the house clatter ended and the talk dwindled and died. Then was the time for Lord Bateman, or The Gypsie Ladie to move into ur thoughts. Or, it could be a time at play-parties when the players dropped down to rest, between spells of dancing, - that was a time to listen to a good long tale."(p.1)

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02 Sep 02 - 07:22 AM (#775483)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Well, according to my very rough count, we've managed to post 37 next texts and fragments of "Sir Lionel/Old Bangum" in addition to what was already available on Mudcat. They come from all over the place, from Scotland to New England to the Southern Appalachians to the Ozarks to China. I'm curious though. We don't seem to have anything from either Ireland or Australia. Did Sir Lionel not make it to either place? I'm also still looking for Dan Tate's version. And anything that anyone else comes up with in the future.

This particular thread is just about full and many of its postings are quite lengthy, so if the discussion continues we may need a part two. I'm still looking for history on the song - when did Sir Lionel become Old Bangum? Did this song pass through the American minstrel scene and when? Were there Civil War versions? Nimrod Workman claims in an introduction to his version of "Quilo Quay (The Boddler)" that his grandfather sang this song in the Revolutionary War. Where did "Quilo Quay" come from? It is one of the most unusual versions. Why didn't Bangum ever shoot the old boar with a rifle? Or even the pistol by his side? And what is this business about witchwives having pigs as their familiars? Can we trace any more specific lineages in specific family groupings or geographic areas, like the Harmon/Hicks versions? Did Bangum ever make it out West beyond Missouri and Arkansas and Oklahoma? Are there Canadian versions? Surely we are not done with this yet!

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21 Nov 02 - 08:51 PM (#832110)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST

I have another version of it that I learned from my Great-grandma Henson who was a Stewart. She lived in Texas when she was a little girl.

When I rode 'round to wild hogs den,
Deedle o die, deedle o day,
When I rode 'round to wild hogs den,
Deedle o die dum.
When I rode 'round to wild hogs den,
I saw the bones of a thousand men,
Camawee quee, quidle aye quay,
Deedle o die dum.

We fought for two hours and a half,
Deedle o die, deedle o day,
We fought for two hours and a half,
Deedle o dum,
We fought for two hours and a half
and finally that wild hog run at last,
Camawee quee, quidle aye quay,
Deedle o dum.

There was more but she had forgotton the rest.
Years later I found another version on a record album called:
Dark Ships In the Forest. The tune is different but it tells a simular tale of a hero hunting a dangerous wild boar. In this version he receives magical help from a fairy. Some of the phrases are key to linking the two songs to each other.

Kathy Kestner

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24 Jul 04 - 10:09 AM (#1232762)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST

Sorry for aborted message above. To continue:

This fascinating song seems to imply a missing link. Has anyone found it?

On the one hand are the older versions dating back to the original(?) Sir Egrabell, Sir Lionel, Bold Sir Rylas, etc. and, in the US, the Harmon and Hicks versions with their characteristic English hunting scenes. The English song by a century ago seems to have led itself to burlesque, e.g. Sir Eglamore. But all these are roughly formal ballads with serious intent, at most a bit of mock-heroics. They also tend to include the witch woman / giant verses conjuring up a background story that is longer and more complex.

On the other hand is what might be called the American consensus: the story is reduced to a sketch, and it is turned into a lullaby, titled usually something like Old Bangum (I don't believe I've ever seen that slightly silly title in an English version), etc, with a slow, moody little sing-'em-to-sleep nonsense refrain (dillum down, quilly quo quam, quilo quay, etc.) There is an alternate strain in which something like "come a call, cut him down, kill him" is used, but this seems to be an exception, and the tone remains lullabyish. The few uptempo US versions, including the Wild Hog in the Woods text and tunes, seem to be later developments.

Questions are:

1. Taking melody, text, and implied atmosphere into consideration, where is the breakpoint / missing link between these two?

2. When and how did the (very public-sounding, performance-oriented) ballad, seemingly simply by crossing the ocean, devolve into the moody, cute, warm & fuzzy (and very private-sounding) lullaby?

3. Did U.S. cabin life in pioneer days quickly whittle it down to pint-size, even though many other ballads survived more or less whole? Or is there another explanation?

And 4. Has anyone seen a version that could be the missing link?

Bob Coltman

---

19 Nov 04 - 07:49 PM (#1332961)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Lighter

This here version might be of some interest. I heard Dee Hicks of Tenchtown, Tenn., sing it in 1977. He said he learned it from his father - I'd guess around 1915.

                There was a hunter in the green
                Dillum down dillum
                There was a hunter in the green
                Kummy koo kwan
                He spiexd a lady up a tree

---

19 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM (#1332973)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Lighter

G*$$@^^#d Tab key! Start again:

          There was a hunter in the green
          Dillum down dillum
          There was a hunter in the green
          Kummy koo kwan
          He spied a lady up a tree
          Kummy koo cuddle dan
          Killy ko kwan

          What keeps you here, my gay laydee?...
          I'm kept here by a wild boar....

          How many has he kille of thee?...
          Oh, he's killed my lord and thirty-three....

          How can I this wild boar see?
          Dillum down dillum
          How can I this wild boar see?
          Kummy koo kwan
          Just put your horn up to your mouth
          And blow the wind both north and south
          Kummy koo, cuddle dan,
          Killy ko kwan

          He put his horn up to his mouth...
          And blew the wind both north and south....

          This wild boar came with such a slash...
          That he cleared his way through oak and ash....

          Old Bangum caught him by the tail...
          And with a hick'ry did him frail....

          They fit four hours in the day...
          Oh, till last that wild boar ran away....

          Old Bangum tracked him to his den...
          Thar lay the bones of a thousand men!...

          (Then) Old Bangum drew his wooden knife...
          He rid that wild boar of its life....

          (Then) there came a wild woman out of the woods...
          She says, Now you've killed my sportin' pig!...

          Thar is three things I'll have of thee...
          That's your horse and hound and gay laydee....

          Oh, then she made a pass at him...
          But he split her from the mouth to chin...

---

19 Nov 04 - 08:56 PM (#1333014)
Subject: Lyr Add: WILD HOG IN THE WOODS
From: Scoville

The Fuzzy Mountain String Band (forerunners of the Red Clay Ramblers) recorded a version in 1971; the CD is available through the Original Red Clay Ramblers website. I think it's in D minor, but I can't make out all of the words. However, I learned the version below from a friend from Iowa--I don't recall where he learned it--several years ago, and it uses the same tune:

There is a wild hog in these woods,
Diddle-um-day, diddle-um-day,
Is a wild hog in these woods,
Diddle-aye-um-day,
Is a wild hog in these woods,
Eats men's bones and sucks their blood,
Cut him down, cut him down, catch him if you can.

Bangum, will you hunting ride?
Diddle-um-day, diddle-um-day,
Bangum, will you hunting ride,
Diddle-aye-um-day,
Bangum, will you hunting ride,
Sword and pistol by your side,
Cut him down, cut him down, catch him if you can.

Bangum came to the wild hog's den,
Saw the bones of a thousand men,

Bangum drew his wooden knife,
Swore he'd take that wild hog's life,

Bangum heard a dreadful crash,
Wild hog came through the oak and ash,

Bangum drew his gun and sword,
Shot that wild hog as he charged,

Fought for hours in that way,
'Til that wild hog was slain,

Bangum, how well did you fare?
Didn't I live to tell the tale?

Bangum, did you win or lose?
Didn't I earn my belt and shoes?

Was a wild hog in these woods,
Ate men's bones and sucked their blood.

---

20 Nov 04 - 08:32 AM (#1333460)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Lighter, thanks so much for this version from Dee Hicks. I had heard about this version from my friend, Bobby McMillon, but had not been able to find it. I think Dee Hicks probably recorded it, but I have not been able to find that recording currently available. Any information on that?

Who was Dee Hicks' father? Didn't this family come from the Beech Mountain Hicks in North Carolina? If so, there may be some connection between this version and that of Rena Hicks of Beech Mountain,NC, and of Sam Harmon (from Cades Cove, TN, cf discussion above). T.O.M.

---

20 Nov 04 - 05:45 PM (#1333944)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Tradsinger

I even recorded it myself once! There's a short sound clip on http://www.cmarge.demon.co.uk/gwilym/soundbites.html

Basically, it's the Dwight Diller version which I think he learnt from the Hammons of WV.

Gwilym

---

20 Nov 04 - 07:17 PM (#1334031)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Lighter

All I know about Dee Hicks is that he lived in Tenchtown and was, I think, in his late 60s or early 70s in in 1977. He and his wife had been invited to campus by a grad student to sing some traditional songs. (He also sang "Will the Weaver.")

It would be quite a coincidence if he wasn't related, wouldn't it?

---

21 Nov 04 - 12:05 PM (#1334478)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE WILD BOAR (Bobby McMillon)
From: John Minear

Here is Bobby McMillon's version of "The Wild Boar" as he sang it several times this past summer at Elkins, West Virginia, during the Augusta Heritage "Old Time Week". Compare this with Sheila Kay Adams' version printed earlier in this thread. Sheila learned her version from Bobby.

THE WILD BOAR
Egra Bailey had three sons
Fal-a-day, fal-a-day, fal-a-dinks-dum-a-dairy-o
Egra Bailey had three sons,
Willie was the youngest one
Fal-a-day, fal-a-day, fal-a-dinks-dum-a-dairy-o.

Willie would a hunting ride
With a sword and pistol by his side.

As he rode on the/a greenwood side
Up in a tree a lady he spied

What are you doing up in that tree?
And then replied this gay lady.

There be's a wild boar to these woods
He kilt my lord and he drunk his blood.

Oh/Well how shall/can I this wild boar see?
Just wind thy horn, he'll come to thee.

He placed his horn up to his mouth
And he wound it well both north, east, west and south

The wild boar heared him to his den,
He made the oak and ash to bend.

They fit four hours of/by the day
And then the wild boar slank away.

As they rode/rid down by the wild boar's den
There laid the bones of a thousand men.

Yander he comes through the bresh
He's a cutting his way through the oak and ash

They fit two hours of the day,
Then this wild board he did slay.

He met the witch-wife on the bridge
She cried, "you rogue, you've kilt my pig!"

There's just three things I crave of thee
Thy hawk, thy hound, thy gay lady.

Well then these three things you can't have of me
My hawk, my hound, nor/and my gay lady.

In to his locks the witch wife flew
I thought to my soul he was torn in two.

He split the witch-wife to the chin
Then on his way return again.

In the Broomgrove Church his body lies
You may see it as well as I.

They's a piece of corn bread a-laying on the shelf
If you want more sung, you'll have to sing it yourself.

---

17 Aug 06 - 12:20 PM (#1812326)
Subject: ADD Version: Wild Hog's Den
From: Joe Offer

Here's an interesting version posted in another thread:

Thread #93861   Message #1810635
Posted By: Kate Kestner
15-Aug-06 - 06:13 PM
Thread Name: Lyr Add: Wild Hog's Den
Subject: Lyr Add: Wild Hog's Den


WILD HOG'S DEN
unknown

As I rode round to Wild Hog's Den,
Deedle-o die, Deedle-o day,
As I rode round to Wild Hog's Den,
Deedle-o die, Deedle-o day,
As I rode round to Wild Hog's Den,
I saw the bones of a thousand men.
Camewee-quee, quiddle-i-quay
Deedle-o die-i-day

We fought for two hours and a half,
Deedle-o die, Deedle-o day,
We fought for two hours and a half,
Deedle-o die, Deedle-o day,
We fought for two hours and a half,
And finaly that wild hog run at last.
Camewee-quee, quiddle-i-quay
Deedle-o die-i-day

This is only two verses of a larger song. My great-granny couldn't remember the rest but that it delt with chasing the hog to ground. It came from the Ozarks in Arkansas but Great Grandma Henson had been a Stewart before she married. They (her grandparents) had come to America after the Battle of Culloden. She was born in Ohio and she marreid and moved to Texas. When my grandmother was 4, they packed a covered wagon and moved to northwest Arkansas in 1910.
Someone once suggested that it might be linked to the Calledonian Hog story. I also once heard a song that envolved a knight hunting this dangerous mad hog and before he finds it, a fairy gives him some magical help. The tune to that one is totally unlike the tune to this, but there are key words that match. I lost track of that song's name.

---

The Traditional Ballad Index lists the various versions of this song under "Sir Lionel":

Sir Lionel [Child 18]

DESCRIPTION: (Sir Lionel) hears report (from a lady in distress?) of a murderous boar. Meeting the boar, he slays the beast. In the older versions, the boar's keeper then comes out to demand a price, and the knight then slays the keeper also.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1876 (Christie, _Traditional Ballad Airs, vol. i_)
KEYWORDS: animal fight magic
FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland(High),England) US(Ap,NE,SE,So)
REFERENCES (38 citations):
Child 18, "Sir Lionel" (6 texts)
Bronson 18, "Sir Lionel" (17 versions)
BronsonSinging 18, "Sir Lionel" (6 versions: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #10)
Bell-Combined, pp. 344-346, "The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove" (1 text); p. 470, "The Old Man and His Three Sons" (1 fragment)
Leather, pp. 203-204, "Brangywell"; p. 204, "Dilly Dove" (2 texts, 2 tunes) {Bronson's #5, 13}
Williams-Thames, pp. 118-119, "Bold Sir Rylas" (1 text) (also Wiltshire-WSRO Wt 322)
BarryEckstormSmyth pp. 434-435, "Sir Lionel" (notes plus a partial reprint of Child A)
Flanders/Olney, pp. 60-61, "Old Bangum" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #17}
Flanders-Ancient1, pp. 226-229, "Sir Lionel" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #17}
Belden, pp. 29-31, "Sir Lionel" (2 texts, 1 tune, plus fragments of 1 stanza and 1 line respectively) {Bronson's #7}
Randolph 7, "Lord Bangum" (1 fragmentary text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #14}
Davis-Ballads 8, "Sir Lionel" (7 texts, 4 tunes entitled "Bangum and the Boar," "Old Bang'em," "Ole Bangim," "Sir Lionel") {Bronson's #12, #10, #8, #15}
Davis-More 10, pp. 72-78, "Sir Lionel" (4 texts, 4 tunes)
Gainer, pp. 24-25, "Old Badman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Scarborough-SongCatcher, pp. 191-191, "Sir Lionel" (1 text reprinted from Scarborough-NegroFS, and found also in Davis and Scarborough-NegroFS, with local title "Old Bangum"; 1 tune on p. 407) {Bronson's #8}
Scarborough-NegroFS, pp. 51-52, "Old Bangum" (1 text, 1 tune, the same as that in Scarborough-SongCatcher) {Bronson's #8}
SharpAp 9 "Sir Lionel" (4 fragments, 4 tunes) {Bronson's #16, #15, #11, #9}
Ritchie-Southern, p. 85, "Bangum Rid by the Riverside" (1 text, 1 tune)
Boswell/Wolfe 8, pp. 18-20, "Old Bangum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Moore-Southwest 10A, "Bangum Rode the Riverside"; 10B, "Old Bangum" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
Leach, pp. 100-103, "Sir Lionel" (2 texts)
McNeil-SFB2, pp. 157-159, "Ole Banghum" (1 text, 1 tune)
PBB 19, "The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove" (1 text)
Lomax-SInging, pp. 149-150, "Old Bangham" (1 text, 1 tune)
Lomax-FSNA 272, "Old Bangum" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson't #8}
Niles 13, "Sir Lionel" (3 texts, 3 tunes)
Chase, pp. 126-127, "Old Bangum and the Boar" (1 text, 1 tune)
Abrahams/Foss, p. 60, "Old Bangum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Morgan-Medieval, pp. 117-119, "Sir Lionel" (1 text)
Silber-FSWB, p. 217, "Old Bangum" (1 text)
DT 18, JOVHUNTR* OLBANGUM*
ADDITIONAL: _Sing Out_ magazine, Volume 24, #2 (1975), p, 5, "Quil O'Quay" (1 short text, 1 tune, from the singing of Nimrod Workman)
RELATED: Versions of the Romance "Sir Eglamour of Artois" --
Digital Index of Middle English Verse #2867
Frances E. Richardson, editor, _Sir Eglamour of Artois_, Early English Text Society/Oxford University Press, 1965, (2 parallel texts, of Lincoln Cathedral MS. 91 and Cotton Caligula A.2, with an appendix containing British Library MS. Egerton 2862 and some readings from the other manuscripts; the two main texts are given a common numbering to bring the total to 1375 lines but L in particular omits some of these lines)
Harriet Hudson, _Four Middle English Romances: Sir Isumbras, Octavian, Sir Eglamour of Artois, Sir Tryamour_, second edition, TEAMS (Consortium for the Teaching of the Middle Ages), Medieval Institute Publications, Western Michigan University, 2006. Much of the material in this book is also available online), pp. 101-132, "Sir Eglamour of Artois" (1 text, of 1320 lines, based mostly on British Library MS. Cotton Caligula A.2)
(William Beattie), _The Chepman and Myllar Prints: A Facsimile with a Bibliographical Note by William Beattie_, Edinburg Bibliographical Society, 1950, pp. 53-88, "(no title)" (1 text, a facsimile of the Advocates Library copy)
John Edwin Wells, _A Manual of the Writings in Middle English 1050-1400_, 1916 (references are to the 1930 fifth printing with three supplements), pp. 115-116, "Sir Eglamour of Artois" (a prose summary)
Roud #29
RECORDINGS:
Bentley Ball, "Bangum and the Boar" (Columbia A3084, 1920)
Logan English, "Bangum and the Boar" (on LEnglish01)
Samuel Harmon, "The Wild Boar" (AFS 2805B; on LC57) {Bronson's #2}
Frank Hutchison, "Wild Hog in the Woods" (OKeh 45274, 1928)
Eunice Yeatts MacAlexander, "Wild Hog in the Woods" (on FarMtns1)
Jean Ritchie, "Old Bangum" (on JRitchie01)
Lonesome Luke [D. C. Decker] & his Farm Boys, "Wild Hog in the Woods" (Champion 16229, 1931; on KMM)
G. D. Vowell, "Bangum and the Boar" (AFS; on LC57)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Wild Hog
The Jovial Hunter
Rurey Bain
Bangum and the Bo'
Wild Hog in the Woods
Rackabello
NOTES [2281 words]: Many versions of this song have been stripped down to descriptions of the [boar] hunt and the fight. Others have subplots concerning Sir Lionel's brothers.
The versions of this called "Wild Hog in the Woods" should not be confused with the fiddle tune of the same name, which is unrelated to any tune I've ever heard with the ballad. Great tune, though - PJS
Flanders, in her notes in "Ancient Ballads," makes the astonishing (for her) admission of how different the common version of this is from the alleged roots: "If 'Old Bangum' can be considered as a direct descendant of the romance Sir Eglamour of Artois, it is surely a classic example of degeneration through oral tradition.... Although the Child 'Sir Lionel' is probably related to the medieval romance, scholars have just as probably been over-enthusiastic in relating 'Old Bangum' songs too closely to 'Sir Lionel.' As Belden, 29, suggests, a song-book or music hall rewriting may well lie between the two."
She adds, "The 'Old Bangum' texts are the only American forms of Child 18. They are known in... England as well, and are characterized by a nonsense refrain which Alfred Williams... notes is meant to sound like a bugle."
Note that D'Urfey's version (Bronson's #3; not given by Child) actually calls the hero "Sir Eglamore," although this might be editorial.
Child mentions several analogies to the boar-hunting tale in the romances, including part of the story of "Culhwych and Olwen" in the Mabinogion (in which Culywych is given seemingly-impossible tasks in order to win Olwyn) and the tale of "The Avowing of [King] Arthur."
Louis B. Hall, p. 130 in his introduction to the "The Avowing of Arthur," says the following:
"With the wolf practically extinct in England, the wild boar had no enemies except the hunter, and a number of tales describe that hunt. The boar is a fearsome beast today and was even more so in the fifteenth century. Archaeological evidence indicates that it then stood four feet tall at the shoulder and weighted about 300 pounds. Its two tusks were like butcher knives, and the boar could use them to either stab or rip. Its successive layers of bristles, hide, muscle, and fat were impenetrable to arrows. To attack this beast alone with only spear and sword was exceedingly dangerous."
Of "Culhwych and Olwen" Child has little to say except to compare it with other tales of battles with a boar: "But both these, and even the Erymanthian, must lower their bristles before the boar in 'Kilhwch and Olwen,' Mabinogion, part iv, pp. 309-316." This is true as far as it goes; Ford-Mabinogi, p. 119, observes that "The story ostensibly deals with the love of Culhwych for Olwen, the giant's daughter, and describes how, with the help of his cousin Arthur, the impossible tasks imposed by the giant were accomplished and Olwen won... [but] the story is really about Arthur, his wonder-working retinue, and a series of exploits performed by them, culminating in the pursuit of the great boar, Twrch Trwyth. This last ends virtually in a draw between Arthur and the boar, although the carnage on both sides is great."
But the story may not have started there. Mabinogion/Davies, p. xxiii, points out that Arthur's boar hunt is mentioned in the ninth century History of the Britons. On p. 16 Ford-Mabinogi seems to suggest that the boar in "Culhwych" is a vague memory of a pig-god, which presumably makes his opponent semi-divine as well. This would fit well in a the world of giants and talking beasts of "Culhwych," less well with this ballad.
But Child fails to note that the fuller versions of "Sir Lionel," like "Culhwych," involves a giant, Olwen's father. This is not to suggest any direct dependence -- just that these tales of highly deadly boars often have giants somewhere in the vicinity as well.
Lionel himself is an Arthurian character, but a relatively minor one -- e.g. he does not have an entry in Lacy. Moorman/Moorman, p. 81, says of him, "In the Vulgate Lancelot, BOHORT's brother, LANCELOT's cousin. In the Queste del Saint Graal his fury almost leads him to kill BOHORT." Makes you wonder a little if Lionel and the boar didn't get their parts mixed up.
As for the romance of "Sir Eglamour," according to Hudson, p. 97, "Sir Eglamour of Artois tells a familiar story of lovers separated by a disapproving father, their vicissitudes, and their eventual marriage in a triumph of faithful love." To win the hand of Cristabelle, Eglamour has to accomplish a series of challenges set by her father, including a boar, giants, and a dragon; the father clearly wants Eglamour to fail, and probably die. When Christabelle gets pregnant, she and her son Degrebelle are set adrift. Eventually everyone is reunited after Eglamour has overthrown the wicked father and gone to Egypt to rescue Cristabelle (Hudson, pp. 97-98).
In the romance, the battle with the boar is in the middle of the list of tasks Eglamour must perform. "The boar is... in Sidon, and as Eglamour approaches, he finds the dismembered bodies of the beast's earlier opponents. The boar kills the knight's horse an requires three days to subdue, but his eradication is a great boon to the country which he had ravaged" (Hudson, p. 98).
The romance does have the interestingly "folk-ish" motif of a knight of (relatively) low status winning the hand of a girl of higher status. On the other hand, it is in the 12-line "tail rhyme" format, which for whatever reason is rarely used in romances that have relationships with ballads.
Unlike many Middle English romances, there does not seem to be a French equivalent of "Sir Eglamour." It is suggested that the piece was composed around 1350 in the northern Midlands.
There are no fewer than seven manuscripts and four early printings of the romance, making it among the most popular of all the Middle English tales, even though it has not been popular with modern editors, probably because of the "jingling verse and the general unrealness of the story" (Wells, p. 116). This even though one of the manuscripts to include it is the famous "Percy Folio." The full list of manuscripts (from Richardson, pp. ix-xiv; see also Hudson, p. 100):
- British Library MS. Egerton 2862, c. 1400 (a fragment of the first 160 lines, often denoted "S").
- Lincoln Cathedral MS. 91, c. 1440, the "Lincoln Thornton Manuscript," after scribe Robert Thornton, who copied many romances and a few ballad-ish lyrics ("L").
- British Library MS. Cotton Caligula A.2, c. 1450 ("C").
- Cambridge University Library MS. Ff.2.38, c. 1460 ("F").
- Bodleian Library MS. Douce 261, 1564, from 1564 ("d")
- British Library MS. Additional 27879, the Percy Folio, c. 1650. ("p")
The early prints:
- National LIbrary of Scotland, Edinburgh, printed by Chepman and Myllar, 1508? (incomplete; titled "Sir Eglamore of Artoys") ("e").
- Cambridge University Library. Inc. 5.J.1.2, printed by Wynken de Worde, c. 1530? (fragment of fewer than sixty lines) ("g").
- Cambridge University Library, Syn 7.52.12, printed by Richard Bankes, c. 1530 (fragments totalling fewer than a hundred lines) ("b")
- Bodleian Library MS. Selden d 45(5), printed by William Copland, c. 1555 (this is very likely based on the Wynken de Worde edition, or perhaps an earlier, lost, Caxton edition) ("a").
- British Library, C.21.C.59, John Walley, c. 1570? ("w").
It might perhaps be noted that Richardson's work was done as a thesis under none other than J. R. R. Tolkien (whose knowledge of folklore doesn't get enough attention), and it likely reflects many of Tolkien's opinions.
According to Richardson's descriptions and the stemma on p. xx, the manuscripts form three groups, S+L, the earliest and generally the best; C+F; and the late texts, e+g+w+b+a+d+p (with the Percy Folio p being especially close to a and w; Richardson in fact thinks p is derived from a, the de Worde edition).
Most printed editions have used L as their base text. Richardson prints L and C in parallel columns. Hudson, although agreeing that L is the best text, works from C because it is the fullest.
There is an interesting footnote to this, in that "Sir Eglamour" is one of the few places where we can test the quality of the text in the very valuable Percy folio. According to Richardson's stemma (p. xx), the Percy text is copied, at one remove, from the Bodleian Selden print by Copeland. Richardson, p. xix, calls it the worst of all the texts and lists a number of unique errors. We should perhaps take this with a grain of salt, since Richardson would also allow the possibility that the Percy text is derived from multiple sources, but if Richardson is correct, we should perhaps be cautious in the use we make of the Percy Folio.
Richardson thinks "Sir Eglamour" is a blending of three romance types, which he calls "Tochmarc Emire/The Wooing of Emer," "Degare," and "Octavian." In English, the first of these is best known from "Emare," the second from "Sir Degare" (Digory)." Richardson thinks the "Eglamour" poet knew specifically "Emare," "Sir Degare," and one or the other of the two English "Octavian" romances. The theme of tasks is from the "Tochmarc Emire/Emare" group; Richardson is not sure if his only source is "Emare" or if there is another source as well.
Mehl, p. 77, says sarcastically of the romance, "The story of Sir Eglamour deserves a brief examination, if only on account of its mediocrity and its highly eclectic character." On p. 78, he adds, "It would be easy to find analogues for all these motifs in earlier romance and to demonstrate that Sir Eglamour is a rather synthetic product. There are particularly close links with Guy of Warwick, Octavian, and Sir Ysumbras....
For a bibliography of references to "Emare," see Rice, pp. 253-254; for "Guy of Warwick," see pp. 277-280; for "Octavian," pp. 365-366; for "Sir Degare," pp. 409-414; for Sir "Isumbras," pp. 469-471; for "Sir Eglamour," pp. 415-416. Summaries of most of them are found in Wells.
I can't help but think, if two scholars both agree that "Eglamour" is derivative, but derive it from different sets of romances, then perhaps the actual sources are something different and now lost -- and if perhaps "Sir Lionel" is related to that.
Mehl, p. 82-83, goes on to suggest that "Eglamour" is a "minstrel poem" -- which, in this context, means a poem the outline of which was memorized but the details largely at the performer's choice, most of them being commonplaces or derived from oral tradition. And, of course, anything that borrows from tradition is likely to lend to it as well.
Or perhaps there is another, lost, "Eglamour" romance. The alliterative poem "The Parlement of the Thre Ages," has these lines:
Sir Eglamour of Artas, full euerous in armes,
And Christabelle the clere maye es crept in her graue;
(Turville-Petrie, p. 98; lines 622-623). The "Parlement" (which exists in two copies) cannot be certainly dated, but the best guess is late fourteenth century (Turville-Petrie, p. 67). The context is a list of famous lovers; Tristram and Dido are among the others mentioned.
Richardson, p. xlii, notes in addition a report of an Eglamore play that was staged at St. Alban's in 1442/43. On the same page, Richardson reports a reduced form of the story, in which Eglamour does little except kill a dragon, in Samuel Rowland's 1615 work "The Melancholy Knight," and a version from 1656 in "Wit and Drollery." Finally, Richardson mentions a version "still sung in schools and Boy Scout camps today." In the absence of a footnote, I don't know what that refers to; I would assume it's some version of this song. More secure is the link of the romance with "Sir Cawline" [Child 61], with which it shares plot elements and some lyrics. But it's an open question just how traditional "Sir Cawline" is; see the notes to that song.
Richardson, pp. xlv-v, suggests that "Sir Eglamour" also influenced the romance of "Sir Torrent of Portyngale" -- or, more correctly, that "Eglamour" influenced "Torrent" and that "Torrent" then influenced the manuscripts of "Eglamour." Wells, p. 113, says that "It has been claimed by some that Sir Torrent is a making-over of Sir Eglamour, and by others that the two are from a common source. He lists two main plot elements in both romances, the "Eustache" story of a family that is driven into poverty and exile and threatened with religious persecution and the "Constance" story of a girl whose father abuses her and forces her to flee to a foreign land where she marries a king and is again banished before reuniting with her husband; these themes are also found in the romance of Octovian, although it is clearly distinct textually, and also in Emare.
Alice B. Morgan, "'Honor & Right' in Arthur of Little Britain" (on pp. 371-384 of Benson) observes that the motif of one substituting for another in bed occurs in "Sir Degare," "Sir Torrent," "Sir Eglamour," and "Partenope of Blois," and also in the French "Arthur of Little Britain" (Benson, p. 377), which John Bourchier, Lord Berners, translated into English I the sixteenth century (Benson, pp. 371-374). So someone who researches "Sir Lionel" has a few more romance to dig into, at least casually.
The wooden knife used to kill the boar has folklore analogies. Simpson, pp. 31-32, has a story told of one Sir Goddard Oxenbridge of Brede (although she notes that it is demonstrably not true). He was somehow turned into a carnivorous giant who went around eating children. Nor could he easily be killed; he was said to be immune to normal metal weapons, plus a crow could warn him when he was about to be attacked. The children of Sussex brewed a huge vat of beer, got him drunk, and sawed him in half with a wooden saw. - RBW
Bibliography

• Benson: Larry D. Benson, editor, The Learned and the Lewed: Studies in Chaucer and Medieval Literature, Harvard University Press, 1974
• Ford-Mabinogi: The Mabinogi and other Medieval Welsh Tales, Translated and Edited, with an Introduction, by Patrick K. Ford, University of California Press, 1977
• Hall: Louis B. Hall, The Knightly Tales of Sir Gawain, with introductions and translations by Hall, Nelson-Hall, 1976
• Hudson: Harriet Hudson, Four Middle English Romances: Sir Isumbras, Octavian, Sir Eglamour of Artois, Sir Tryamour, second edition, TEAMS (Consortium for the Teaching of the Middle Ages), Medieval Institute Publications, Western Michigan University, 2006. Much of the material in this book is also available online)
• Lacy: Norris J. Lacy, Editor, The Arthurian Encyclopedia, 1986 (I use the 1987 Peter Bedrick paperback edition)
• Mabinogion/Davies: The Mabinogion, translated [from Welsh] by Sioned Davies, 2007 (I use the 2008 Oxford University Press paperback)
• Mehl: Dieter Mehl, The Middle English Romances of the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Centuries, originally published 1967 in German as Die mittelentlischen Romanzen des 13. and 14. Jahrhunderts; English version, Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1969
• Moorman/Moorman: Charles and Ruth Moorman, An Arthurian Dictionary, University Press of Mississippi, 1978
• Rice: Joanne A. Rice, Middle English Romance: An Annotated Bibliography, 1955-1985, Garland Publishing, 1987
• Richardson: Frances E. Richardson, editor, Sir Eglamour of Artois, Early English Text Society/Oxford University Press, 1965
• Simpson: Jacqueline Simpson, The Folklore of Sussex, B. T. Batsford, 1973
• Turville-Petre: Thorlac Turville-Petre, Alliterative Poetry of the Later Middle Ages: An Anthology, Routledge, 1989
• Wells: John Edwin Wells, A Manual of the Writings in Middle English 1050-1400, 1916 (references are to the 1930 fifth printing with three supplements)

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17 Aug 06 - 01:03 PM (#1812348)
Subject: RE: Origins: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)

Probably not what you are looking for, but my favourite hotel in the Lake District in England is the Wild Boar. The local legend has a poem/song dedicated to the place. I found this on the internet.

Richard de Gylpyn (the name already undergoing slight change), called "Richard the Rider," performed a signal act of bravery in the time of King John, killing the last wild boar of Westmoreland, which had devastated the land and terrified the people. Some time previously, about 1206, he had accompanied the Baron of Kendal, who could neither read nor write, to Runnymeade, as his secretary, and in recognition of his heroic act the Baron gave him Kentmere Manor, an estate some four thousand acres in extent in a wild portion of the English lake district, about ten miles distant from Lake Windermere, a "breezy tract of pasture land" as Froissart, the French chronicler, records. Gylpyn thereafter changed his coat of arms from that borne by his forefathers to that having the wild boar upon its shield. This adventure of his, his consequent change of arms, are embodied in an old poem called "Minstrels of Winandermere."

Bert de Gylpyn drew of Normandie
From Walchelin his gentle blood,
Who haply hears, by Bewley's sea,
The Angevins' bugles in the wood,
His crest, the rebus of his name,
Pineapple-a pine of gold
Was it, his Norman shield,
Sincere, in word and deed, his face extolled.
But Richard having killed the boar
With crested arm an olive shook,
And sable boar on field of or
For impress on his shield he took.
And well he won his honest arms.
And well he knew his Kentmore lands.
He won them not in war's alarms,
Nor dipt in human blood his hands.

The arms are those used by the Gilpins to the present day: Or, a boar statant sable, langued and tusked gules. Crest: A dexter arm embowed I armor proper, the naked hand grasping a pine branch fesswise vert. Motto: Dictis Factisque Simplex.
Many members of the Gilpin family now reside in the USA.

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30 Oct 07 - 07:17 AM (#2182522)
Subject: Lyr Add: WILD HOG IN THE WOODS (from Dwight Diller
From: Ferrara

I wanted to learn Dwight Diller's version of "Wild Hog in the Woods." A google search on Diller and "wild hog" found this thread. After listening a few dozen times, with John Minear's posted version of the lyrics (23 Aug 02 - 12:10 PM) to help, I've come up with slightly revised lyrics. I think this is pretty close. - Rita F

- BTW "mast" is fruit or nuts, usually after it's fallen from the tree. It usually means a part of the forest that has lots of acorns. Hogs love acorns.

WILD HOG IN THE WOODS
as sung by Dwight Diller

There's a wild hog in yonder woods,
        Diddle oh down, diddle oh day,
There's a wild hog in yonder woods,
        Diddle oh down, oh day.
There's a wild hog in yonder woods,
He cuts your throat, and he drinks your blood,
        Cut him down, cut him down, kill him if you can.

There's a wild hog in yonder mast,
Cut his way through oak and ash.

Bangum, will you huntin' ride?
Sword and a pistol by your side.

Followed that wild boar day and night,
'Fore he'd a-taken that wild boar's life.

Bangum went to the wild boar's den,
Found the bones of a thousand men.

Fought that wild boar sword and knife,
'Fore he could take that wild boar's life.

Fought four hours in that day,
The wild boar fled and he stumped away.

Bangum threw his wee pen knife,
That was the end of the wild boar's life.

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30 Oct 07 - 09:56 AM (#2182613)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Richard Bridge

Fascinated to see this thread - I've just picked the song up from Jon Loomes' CD.

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30 Oct 07 - 10:07 AM (#2182619)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Richard Bridge

A rummage on the internet seems to show that boar was first introduced into America in the 16th Century by Spanish, for food, and again in the 19th century by htose who wanted to hunt it. This makes it seem probable that the song was originally European, but has been preserved and adapted in the USA.

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02 Nov 07 - 08:01 AM (#2184898)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Ferrara

It was definitely Scottish and English before it came over here, Richard. There's a lot of info in the earlier parts of this thread. In England it was uusually noble and knightly, I think. In the US it tends to be livelier and more "homely."

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02 Nov 07 - 12:16 PM (#2185090)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Richard Bridge

My reading (albeit in haste) of the earlier parts of the thread was that there appeared to be several songs with some similiarities, but that there appeared to be a hiatus between the known Scottish version(s) and the known American version(s), to such an extent that it was uncertain that all came fromt eh same source. I have not re-checked.

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02 Nov 07 - 06:34 PM (#2185303)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Big Al Whittle

"A rummage on the internet seems to show that boar was first introduced into America in the 16th Century "

are they still there?

any idea what its all about?

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02 Nov 07 - 07:19 PM (#2185329)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Richard Bridge

What what's all about?

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02 Nov 07 - 07:45 PM (#2185340)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Big Al Whittle

what does the boar represent?

Richard the Third had the white boar as his emblem. I suppose selected for the boar's masculinity, its fighting power, its wild fearsomeness.

This boar, we are repeatedly told, drinks your blood. Despite its noble qualities - this is an evil animal.

The lyric is hardly catchy, It meant something to the people who sang it all thos years - what did it represent? What made it precious to them?

The steady incantation would seem to suggest, perhaps a ritual aspect.

Just random thoughts on reading the thread.

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02 Nov 07 - 08:09 PM (#2185350)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Richard Bridge

Whether it is catchy depends, I suppose, on the version you sing.

I do an aptation of the Jon Loomes version (it makes a cracking guitar chord sequence when I get it right), and I think the lyric is very catchy - it got into my brain on about two listens, and it's at least in part why I took it up - that and the repeated vocal lines (incantation, if you like, but in that version it is "(diddly-dit -dee-dee) a noble hunter" which seems not to suggest any necromantic aspect)

On the other hand, could it be simply a personification of the battle of good against evil? These are hardly unknown. The pig seems across many versions to be associated with the witch or witch-wife (which begs the question of who the husband might be) - so is the boar the familiar?

There again - we all know what "long pig" is.

But again, we have a hint at the "False Knight" type riddles with the "3 things" the witchwife demands.

On balance then it seems likely that there is intended to be some occult or spiritual meaning - not my ball park in that I abandoned organised religion a very ling time ago having formed the view that organised religion was often a denial of true spiritualism and mostly a control mechanism.

Or to put it another way - it rocks so I sing it whatever it means.

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02 Nov 07 - 09:15 PM (#2185402)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Big Al Whittle

what about the wild boars, are they still there in America?

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02 Nov 07 - 09:58 PM (#2185417)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Richard Bridge

Yes - but not indegenes, imports

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14 Dec 07 - 01:56 PM (#2215357)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST,noexperts

Actually, there are still indigenous wild pigs in Western NC, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi although their range is rather diminished.

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14 Dec 07 - 02:39 PM (#2215394)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Barry Finn

Great thread, I don't know how I missed it these many years. I used to sing a version "Abraham Bailey" & got it from the singing of Peggy Seeger, I now know that it's Sam Harmon's "Wild Boar". I believe it's time for me to refresh this song, what a gem.

It's funny with the mention here of songs sung a bedtime. It was ballads like these that I sung my kids to sleep with. At a festival long ago a friend asked in passing for a song & when I started singing it for him the kids started to cry. I wondered at this & futher investigation I found that they started to cry because it was mid day, they were having a grand time but because I was singing this song they thought it was bedtime for them.

Thanks to all
Barry

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16 Jul 09 - 09:07 PM (#2681859)
Subject: Lyr Add: BANGUM AND THE WILD BOAR
From: moongoddess

I learned "Bangum and the Wild Boar" from Michael and Carrie Kline who learned it from Currence Hammonds and Sherman Hammonn in West Virginia.

BANGUM AND THE WILD BOAR
From Currence Hammonds and Sherman Hammons

There are a wild boar in these woods, dillo di, dillo dey,
There are a wild boar in these woods, dillo di,
There are a wild boar in these woods,
        He'll eat your meat and suck your blood,
Come away, quaddle down, quanzio.

Bangum made him a wooden gun
        to shoot that wild boar as he run.

Then Bangum got him a butcher knife
        he swore to take that wild boar's life.

He tracked that wild boar to his den
        where he found the bones of a thousand men.

He raised his horn up to his mouth
        first he blowed it East, then West and South.

That wild boar come with such a dash
        it splintered hickory, oak and ash.

Then Bangum raised his wooden gun
        and he shot that wild boar as he run.

Then Bangum raised his butcher knife
        right there he took that wild boar's life.

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28 Jan 10 - 04:32 PM (#2823867)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)

Welcome, Sam! I hope you continue to enjoy the Mudcat. Some good advice is to keep it cordial, speak of what you know about, and don't feed the trolls.

I popped in to say how much I enjoy this thread. I have been privileged to hear "Wild Boar in these woods", an obvious member of this song family, from David Anderson, an 8th generation mountain man whose ancestors (both Cherokee and white) settled the hills around Brasstown, NC. He's still there, still singing, and whenever he sings this song I get chills.

He's also recorded it on Night Hoots and Morning Songs, a great compilation cd from the John C. Campbell Folk School of Brasstown.

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28 Jan 10 - 05:53 PM (#2823948)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: John Minear

Wow, it's been over five years since I posted to this thread! And look at all of the good stuff that's shown up in the meantime. Animaterra, can you post those lyrics from David Anderson. I'd really like to see them. Regardless of the version or where it comes from or what's become of it, this is a great song and one that never wears out.

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13 Sep 14 - 09:56 AM (#3659866)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST,Deb Nelson

Great thread, thanks.
Two things-
When 'marsh' comes in ('threads his way through yonders marsh') I think it's a corruption of 'mast', i.e. beechmast, that Europeans and settlers would take their domestic pigs to visit in Autumn, for fattening.

Meaning- gives me archtypal shivers.
Ceridwen.
Terry Pratchett's 'Hogfather'

Winter, black branches, snow, blood, death.

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13 Sep 14 - 05:49 PM (#3659975)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Tradsinger

'Bold Sir Rylas' was collected in Wiltshire from Daniel Morgan of Cheltenham in probably the 20s. In 1969, the researcher John Baldwin recorded Daniel's son John singing the song. The transcription can be found here. However, in order to hear the recording, you have to make an appointment with Leeds University to hear items from the Leeds Archive of Vernacular Culture Special Collections and go to Leeds to hear it. The other however is that John Morgan was not a skilled singer and although the transcription is accurate, it is a transcription of a poor performance and only hints vaguely at the real tune. Nevertheless it is the only field recording of the song in England. I have just recorded 'Bold Sir Rylas' using a tune based partly on the Morgan tune and partly on a Appalachian version on my CD 'Tom Goblin.'

Tradsinger

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02 Oct 17 - 09:22 PM (#3879917)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: GUEST

Many versions have the line:

"Old Bangum drew his wooden knife"

Why a wooden knife, wouldn't a steel knife be better? Is this some misheard lyric, and if so, what?

Thanks

Geoff

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03 Oct 17 - 12:47 PM (#3880066)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion
From: Steve Gardham

Fascinating thread. Thanks for reviving it.

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31 Jul 20 - 09:35 PM (#4066799)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion-Child #18
From: Lighter

The Sun (N.Y.C.) (Dec. 27, 1915), p. 6:

"At the request of my friend, Judge Archbald [sic], I am sending you the complete story of 'Old Bangum,' as I used to sing it to him and other classmates of Yale '71. It is as sung to me by my father when I was a child, say some sixty years ago.

"I regret that I did not have intelligence enough to find out whatever my father may have known about its derivation. He was Kentucky born, but had traveled much in the West. The refrains give an idea of old English combined with Choctaw....

"[Signed] Lyne Starling,
GREENVILLE, Miss., December 22.

Old Bangum rode down by the riverside,
Dallum down Dallum;
Old Bangum rode down by the riverside,
Kimme koo;
Old Bangum rode down by the riverside,
And there a beauteous maid he spied,
   Dallum down, Kimmee koo Quam.


[Similarly:]

My pretty maid, will you marry me?...
Yes, kind sir, if we agree....

But there is a wild boar in this wood,...
Will eat your heart and drink your blood....

Old Bangum rode down by the wild boar's den,...
And there lay the bones of a thousand men....

The wild boar came forth very wroth,...
Bending his course from south to north....

Old Bangum drew his butcher knife...
To fight the wild boar for his life....

They fought the hours of that day,...
And at last the wild boar ran away....

Then Bangum rode down to the riverside,...
And took the fair maid for his bride....

(The part about "Choctaw" is undoubtedly a joke. The word was often used to mean "gibberish.")

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01 Aug 20 - 12:47 PM (#4066878)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion-Child #18
From: GUEST,Wm

Here's a biography of Lyne Starling, the informant in Lighter's post above. Potentially interesting evidence of these songs crossing lines of class and geography prior to the interest kicked up in the early 20th century?

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01 Aug 20 - 01:11 PM (#4066882)
Subject: RE: Wild Boar: History, Lyrics & Discussion-Child #18
From: Lighter

Fascinating information. Thanks!

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