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08 Sep 02 - 05:42 AM (#778997) Subject: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Storyteller Harry Clifton (1824-1872) was a prolific songwriter for the English music hall; I've found reference to him being the author of over 500 songs! An article by Roy Hudd mentions him briefly Music Hall Songwriters, and notes that he 'borrowed' most of his tunes from folk songs. Well it would seem that in turn a few of his songs have been picked up by traditional singers, and I've been surprised to find out that there are so many. Does anybody know if there are more out there?
Pretty Polly Perkins of Paddington Green is in the DT, as is THE GOOD SHIP KANGAROO which Elizabeth Cronin sang. |
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08 Sep 02 - 11:22 AM (#779091) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: John MacKenzie Theres only one comment I can make about Michael Kilgarriff's book, that it's long on price, and short on content. Giok |
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08 Sep 02 - 05:09 PM (#779221) Subject: Lyr Add: THE WATERCRESS GIRL (Harry Clifton) From: GUEST,Storyteller The Watercress Girl (Lyrics by Harry Clifton) One day I took a ramble Down by a running stream Where the water lilies gambol, It was a lovely scene. And there I saw a maiden, A maiden from the dell. She was gathering watercresses, 'Twas Martha the watercress girl. Her hair hung down in tresses, Down by the mill that's close to the stream. She was gathering watercresses Was Martha the watercress girl. I asked her if she was lonely, She answered with a smile; Kind sir, I am not lonely, For here I daily toil. I have to rise up early, My cresses for to sell. My Christian name is Martha, They call me the watercress girl. The day is not far distant When Martha will be mine, And on our wedding morning It will be nice and fine. I'll have to rise up early, And dress up like an earl, To go and marry Martha, The sweet little watercress girl. Her hair hung down in tresses, Down by the mill that's close to the stream. She was gathering watercresses Was Martha the watercress girl. From the singing of Johnny Doughty of Brighton, Sussex. Recorded by Mike Yates (and Camille Saunders, August 1976?) Issued on Veteran Tapes cassette 'The Horkey Load: Vol. 2' VT109, 1988. Another recording of the song by Tommy Morrissey of Padstow, Cornwall is available, also on cassette from Veteran, on 'Pass Around the Grog' VT122, 1992. |
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09 Sep 02 - 05:13 AM (#779514) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GeoffLawes Steve Gardham of Hull Uk has done reasearch on H Clifton and songs in the tradition Steve writes the Songs under the Microscope feature in the EFDSS mag English Dance & Song . As for Goik's suggestion that Kilgarriff's mighty tome is 'short on content', I'm amazed. Kilgarriff lists thousands of popular songs with composers and writers, has a section which lists hundreds of popular performers and their repertoires, and presents a list of the most popular songs in chronological order. It is an invaluable starting point for researching things like Harry Clifton's contribution to traditional song. |
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09 Sep 02 - 01:57 PM (#779848) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Storyteller Geoff, thanks for that information. I've got some copies of EDS which I'll look at again, but if you've got any specific items to add please do share them here. Incidentally, what is it with Hull and folk music? Is it something in the water? I'll post some lyrics later which I've found for 'Paddle your own canoe' which, as I noted was in one of Elizabeth Cronin's song-lists. |
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09 Sep 02 - 02:32 PM (#779881) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: MartinRyan I occasionally hear "Ten minutes too late" at singing sessions - didn't realise it shared an author with "On Board the Kangaroo"! Regards |
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09 Sep 02 - 02:43 PM (#779888) Subject: Lyr Add: PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE (Harry Clifton) From: GUEST,Storyteller From the sheet music at The Levy Collection at Johns Hopkins University:
PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE
1. I've travell’d about a bit in my time,
CHORUS: Then love your neighbour as yourself,
2. I have no wife to bother my life,
3. It's all very well to depend on a friend,
4. If a hurricane rise in the midday skies |
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10 Sep 02 - 12:27 PM (#780505) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GeoffLawes I didn't mean that Steve Gardham had written about H Clifton in EDS but was rather giving that information because EDS carries Steve's postal address which I didn't feel entitled to give out without his permission. I will try again to reach Steve on the phone and let him know about this . I think Steve did once tell me that H Clifton wrote The Rocky Road to Dublin which Kilgarriff also credits him with , although I have seen it credited as traditional elsewhere. |
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10 Sep 02 - 04:51 PM (#780727) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Storyteller Geoff- thanks again. That explains why a trawl through EDS didn't produce anything (but lots of other interesting nuggets to intrigue me!) The lyrics for 'Rocky Road to Dublin' are already in the DTHere If Clifton wrote the words as Kilgarriff claims then I think that it is rather sweet that they are now 'traditional'. The slip-jig tune is very well known, I suspect that Clifton may have fitted the words to it - they have a lovely pace with the words and syllables tripping out at breakneck speed in time to the music. I've got Steve's address from EDS so please don't publish it here; I shall write to him myself. By the way I notice that these are your first postings to the Mudcat Forum. Welcome aboard! |
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11 Sep 02 - 09:05 AM (#781186) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Steve(Dungbeetle)Gardham Hi! No need to write, storyteller. I'm here now.I have masses of folk-song texts from books, all major broadside collections, a sizable collection of original 19th century sheet music, all indexed and cross-referenced. I too am surprised at disparaging comments on Kilgarriff. It doesn't pretend to be comprehensive but as a first port of call on the origins of a popular song I find it pretty indespensible even with the resources I've got. I first became interested in Harry Clifton when I found out he had written a fairly scarce song I collected in my own area back in the 60s, 'My rattling old black mare'then I discovered he'd also written or been associated with popularising, quite a few songs that were currently being sung in the folk clubs. I then started collecting original sheet music by him, and of course versions of his songs often appeared on the later broadsides c1860 onwards. On the sheet music for 'Rocky Road to Dublin' the lyrics are credited to D.K. Gavan,The Galway Poet. Many of Harry's tunes were adaptations of popular melodies of the times, but he was the bees Knees in the early 1860s so anything he performed soon became thought of as his. He did write a helluva lot of songs though. If there is sufficient demand I'm willing to post a list of his better known stuff on the Forum.Hope this is helpful. I'll try to stay in touch,Steve. |
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11 Sep 02 - 06:11 PM (#781554) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Storyteller Thank you Steve for your contribution, and for all your work in 'Songs under the microscope'. My interest was in how Clifton's songs had passed into the repertory of traditional singers, who of course didn't only sing "folk songs" even though this was all the earlier collectors wanted from them. I'm intrigued by the way that some popular songs are taken up, while others drop out of fashion very quickly. Clifton seems to have had a certain 'knack' and I would be very interested to know of other songs he wrote, or popularised, which have been sung by traditional singers. |
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12 Sep 02 - 04:46 AM (#781846) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Steve G Storyteller, Some quick facts about Clifton off the top of my head: Yes, Clifton had a knack for writing popular material that would last. He died in his forties in 1872 but his work went through a revival in the 1880s. He travelled around England, Ireland and Scotland at the height of his popularity and had his imitators in America. Wherever he was appearing he tried to write songs that mentioned the local places, e.g. Hull's song was Faithless Maria or The Land of Green Ginger. He was famous for his motto songs however which appealed to the middle classes because they were messages of virtue to the common man, e.g. Work Boys Work and be Contented is a typical title. I have 113 titles credited to him. I have the original sheet music for 20 of them but I'd like to get more. One I'd particularly like to have is My Rattling Mare and I. Almost all of the others I have copies of on broadsides. As you might expect, his material has been collected more often in the tradition in America, such pieces as Paddle Your Own Canoe, Pulling Hard against the Stream, and Shabby Genteel are frequently found in American collections. In Br folk clubs one can still hear The Calico Printer's Clerk (Stefan Sobel et al) Polly Perkins and its Geordie parody, The Weepin' Willer. Br tradition has Water Cresses, Mary Ann or The Roving Gardener, I am one of the Olden Time (sung by Mukram Wakes) My Rattling Mare and I (in my own collection and others) On Board the Kangaroo, probably others. And in Ireland Lannigan's Ball and Rocky Roads to Dublin (both written by D.K. Gavan), and The Waterford Boys. Hope this is useful. Steve. |
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13 Sep 02 - 08:32 AM (#782918) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Storyteller Steve, thank you for these very helpful leads. It appears that the Kathleen Barker Collection at the University has some memorabilia of Harry Clifton Kathleen Barker Collection. If I come up with anything more of interest I'll post it here. |
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16 Mar 05 - 10:56 AM (#1436088) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Billy Weeks I'vejust seen (three years late - sorry!) John Giok's comment that Kilgarriff is 'long on price and short on content'. Kilgariff's 'Sing Us One of the Old Songs' is a long-needed reference book and a monumental achievement that anyone could be proud of having produced. I take it JG wanted pictures? Or perhaps he thinks that,like the telephone directory it has a terrific cast but a lousy plot. |
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02 Jul 06 - 09:31 AM (#1774046) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Lucius Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone has the lyrics to "Ten Minutes too Late". |
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14 Dec 07 - 06:40 PM (#2215563) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Mark Turner I am the Great Grandson of HARRY CLIFTON.I would be very interested in the results of this website. I have little knowledge of my ancester and would welcome any information. I will now check this site at regular intervals. "I Live in Trafalgar Square". To those that know please reply. |
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19 Jan 08 - 04:16 AM (#2239855) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,k ball i to am also related to harry clifton and would like to get in touch |
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23 Jan 08 - 06:46 AM (#2242678) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky No.112 of the Axon Broadside Ballad Collection (the Death of Harry Clifton) includes the titles of several of Harry's compositions. |
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25 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM (#2244806) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,mark turner it would be interesting to talk to you k ball, in which way are you related, and how would you like to get in touch? |
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19 Apr 08 - 05:44 PM (#2320295) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: R.P. |
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19 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM (#2320312) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: R.P. Hello. I have been researching Harry Clifton for the past 10 years, as he is my paternal great grandfather. I have family papers his birth registration, marriage certificate, death certificate, will, and a number of his song sheets. I would like to hear from:- Mark TURNER & K. BALL, to find out where we connect. Best wishes. Robert. |
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19 Apr 08 - 06:29 PM (#2320331) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: R.P. Hello again! in my last message it should have read:- Maternal great grandfather. Best wishes. Robert. |
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20 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM (#2321006) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Steve Gardham To add to my previous list I recently found out that Harry wrote that well-worn song 'Send back my Barney' which eventually morphed into 'My Bonny'. You can listen to something near the original as sung by The Watersons. Sheet music came up on Ebay about 6 months ago but I was outbid. The winner very kindly sent me a photocopy. I now sing it in schools I visit using the original words but the well-known 'My Bonny' tune. Sometime when I'm not so busy I'd like to help set up a Harry Clifton website with copies of all his works. 'Where there's a will there's a way' is still going strong west of Sheffield where it's called 'The Spider Song' sung by Gordon Hoyland and others. |
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21 Apr 08 - 05:51 AM (#2321318) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Brakn Just a few bits of interest..... Henry (Harry) Robert Clifton was born at Hoddesdon and was Christened on the 20th of May 1832 at Broxbourne, Hertfordshire. Parents were Henry and Harriet Clifton. His father ,I think, died in 1837. In 1841 he was living in the High Street, Broxbourne with his mother. I can't find him on any other censuses until 1871 when he was boarding at Union Street, St Andrew, Plymouth with his common law wife Fanny (Edwards). Harry Clifton died in 1872 and is buried in Kensal Green Cemetery. |
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21 Apr 08 - 06:10 AM (#2321327) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Bonnie Shaljean Related threads for Ten Minutes Too Late: Lyr Req: Ten Minutes Too Late Lyr Req: Exactly 10 minutes too late Nice to hear from you, R.P. - what a great thread. |
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28 May 08 - 01:37 PM (#2351180) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST As a resident of Hoddesdon interested in local history and music hall entertainment, I was intrigued to read recently that Harry Clifton was born in my home town. Interestingly this seems to have gone unnoticed by local historians, at least there is no mention of him in local history books. I wondered if his birth certificate mentions where in Hoddesdon he was born as it would be nice to pass this on to my local history society and I would like to write a small piece for their newsletter. Phil |
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04 Jun 08 - 09:44 PM (#2357786) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: R.P. Hello Phil. If you contact me at:- dreaming.on28@btinternet.com I will be able to help you. Best wishes. R.P. |
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27 Apr 09 - 05:10 PM (#2619932) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,GUEST This is a long shot but does anyone know the names of Harry cliftons children. many thanks M |
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28 Apr 09 - 03:14 PM (#2620646) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Guestx2, Surely if you PM the above 3 relatives at least one of them should be able to answer your question. BTW there are 2 of HC's sheet music pieces on Ebay currently. One very scarce one 'Robinson Crusoe' is already going beyond my pocket at £16 plus postage, but the other 'Paddle Your Own Canoe' is quite common. I have 3 versions of it all with different lithographs to the one on Ebay. This in itself would make an interesting study. In all my copies his face is much fatter. I would love to see a website of his work something like the one dedicated to Arthur Lloyd. |
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29 Apr 09 - 02:38 AM (#2620976) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Scans of several Clifton songs are available online at the John Hopkins Lester S. Levy site (including "Paddle Your Own Canoe"). |
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29 Apr 09 - 06:48 AM (#2621082) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Brakn Re Harry cliftons children. I don't think he had any. |
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29 Apr 09 - 09:27 AM (#2621163) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky There are at least two of his great-grandsons on this thread - he must have had children. |
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29 Apr 09 - 05:57 PM (#2621501) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham The Lester Levy site also has several Clifton songs pirated by Tony Pastor who was his American imitator. Pastor appears to have altered the songs slightly and then claimed them as his own. |
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30 Apr 09 - 01:37 PM (#2622042) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Brakn On the 1871 census Harry's listed as being married to Fanny (Edwards) though I don't think this ever happened. (I can't find it.) If they had children together I suppose they could've been left in boarding school or with relations while the couple toured. After Harry died, Fanny emigrated to the U.S. in 1889 and died 1908 at her home in Yonkers. Her obit in the New York Times says that she left three sisters and two brothers. It doesn't mention any children. |
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30 Apr 09 - 01:57 PM (#2622059) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: MartinRyan Brakn I think there are several online references to his "common law wife". Regards |
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01 May 09 - 07:15 AM (#2622486) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky According to R.P.'s post, above, he has his marriage certificate - and his will. Don't forget that Harry travelled the length and breadth of the UK and Ireland. Records relating to BMD's/censuses etc are likely to be scattered. |
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01 May 09 - 08:14 PM (#2622924) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham This is complete conjecture based on his songs, but I have always thought Harry fell out with his wife some time in the 60s. He had a song called 'My Old Wife' which I have the sheet music to which extols her virtues. I also have the sheet music to 'My Rattling Old Black Mare' which is a parody on 'MOW' in which he changes the words in the first chorus to 'It's not my wife upon my life, but a rattling old black mare' now extoling the virtues of his horse! Fanny Edwards who he sometimes duetted with must have come into the picture after this. Harry died aged 40 in 72 so his children would have grown up by the time FE emigrated. |
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20 May 09 - 11:40 AM (#2636615) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Jim Dixon Lyrics to the following Harry Clifton song are in the DT: LANIGAN'S BALL Lyrics to the following songs have been posted in Mudcat threads: DARK GIRL DRESSED IN BLUE FAITHLESS MARIA ON BOARD OF THE KANGAROO PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE POLLY PERKINS OF ABINGTON GREEN PULLING HARD AGAINST THE STREAM (although there, it's attributed to "Mr. Boot"; I don't know whether the lyrics agree with what Clifton wrote.) TEN MINUTES TOO LATE THE WATERFORD BOYS The Lester S Levy Collection of Sheet Music has the following titles: A MOTTO FOR EVERY MAN DARBY MCGUIRE ISABELLA AND HER GINGHAM UMBRELLA JEMIMA BROWN, OR, THE QUEEN OF A SEWING MACHINE MY MOTHER IN LAW, OR, ADVICE TO PERSONS ABOUT TO MARRY NEVER LOOK BEHIND PADDLE YOUR OWN CANOE POLLY PERKINS OF ABINGTON GREEN THE DARK GIRL DRESS'D IN BLUE THE FAMILY MAN THE WATERFORD BOYS UP WITH THE LARK IN THE MORNING, MERRY & WISE WAIT FOR THE TURN OF THE TIDE WHERE THE GRASS GROWS GREEN The National Library of Australia has: ON BOARD OF THE KANGAROO Duke University has: POLLY PERKINS OF PEMBERTON (sic) GREEN The California Sheet Music Project has: SHABBY GENTEEL The Library of Congress American Memory Collection has: PRETTY LITTLE FLORA (song sheet – lyrics only) FAITHLESS MARIA (song sheet – lyrics only) The Bodleian Library has the following as broadsides: A BIT OF MY MIND AS LONG AS THE WORLD GOES ROUND BROKEN DOWN JEMIMA BROWN POLLY PERKINS SHABBY GENTEEL THERE'S A SMILE WAITING FOR ME AT HOME WHERE THE GRASS GROWS GREEN WHERE THERES A WILL THERE'S A WAY You can see many more titles at WorldCat.org. |
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20 May 09 - 12:03 PM (#2636645) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Not forgetting the wonderful CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK also on the DT. |
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18 Jan 10 - 05:28 PM (#2815286) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Carole Wallis Hi Mark, I am also a great granddaughter of Harry Clifton. I am stuck the same as you on finding out very much. Please contact me at carolewallis@btinternet.com. |
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18 Jan 10 - 05:30 PM (#2815292) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Carole Wallis Hi Robert, I am a great granddaughter of Harry Clifton. Please contact me at carolewallis@btinternet.com so we can compare info. Regards |
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18 Jan 10 - 06:51 PM (#2815364) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham The Cover of 'The Hardware Line' is for sale on EBay at the moment. Unfotunately it's just the cover and they want a fiver for it. If it doesn't go through the roof like the last one I might bid on it. I was looking at my copy of 'Send back my Barney' today and realised it is actually set in Ireland and therefore, like Lannigan's Ball and Rocky Road, formed a big part of his Irish tours. Ladies, If you do manage to find a biographical source, I too would be very interested. That such a great star at the top of the tree in the 60s went without a proper bio is amazing. It would be worth checking the theatrical papers for 1872 for entries. Billy Weeks is the man best placed to get the info. I'll email him. |
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03 May 10 - 01:13 PM (#2899212) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Steve, in an earlier post, you said you sing "Send Back My Barney" but to the "My Bonny" tune, implying that the original tune is different. Do you have a copy of the original music, and if so, can you transcribe the original tune? Also, since you've been collecting the sheet music, have you located tunes for any of the songs in your list where only lyrics have been posted? Does your list include Clifton's songs for which Tony Pastor spuriously claimed credit? |
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03 May 10 - 03:40 PM (#2899291) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger The National Library of Australia has fifteen entries for Clifton songs, though there is only an online scan of "On Board of the Kangaroo". They are: As welcome as the flowers in May, or, The jolly miller The adventures of Robinson Crusoe It's not the miles we travel, but the pace that kills Jones' Musical Party Jemima Brown On board of the Kangaroo Paddle your own canoe [2 entries] Pulling hard against the stream Purely a matter of taste Put the break on when you're going down the hill True blue and seventy-two Up a tree Very suspicious [2 entries] The majority of these songs have not been mentioned in the various threads on Clifton. I'm sure we'd appreciate transcriptions of the lyrics and dots. I'd be happy to transcribe melodies to ABC if someone provided me with scans. |
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03 May 10 - 03:46 PM (#2899298) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Artful, Off the top of my head the main source of my statement on Tony Pastor is all on the Lester Levy website so I suggest looking there. Re the original sheet music, yes I do have it and will post the notes with words but I'm no music expert and can't give you an ABC. If that's not good enough, I could scan my copy and email it to you. I don't know which ones have only lyrics posted but I can let you have a list of all the tunes I have, certainly all of the well-known ones and those that have survived in oral tradition. The Watersons recorded a more original version of Barney but again I can't read music sufficiently well to say their tune is the same as Ckifton's original. Will have a look at my Levy copies and try to identify the offending Pastor stuff. |
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03 May 10 - 04:08 PM (#2899308) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham I have the music to the following Bear it like a Man Calico Printer's Clerk Dark Girl dressed in Blue Folly and Fashion Granny Snow I am one of the Olden Time Isabella the Barber's Daughter It's not the miles we travel Jolly Old Country Squire Jones's Musical party Lannigan's Ball Mary Ann the Roving gardener A Motto for Every Man My Mother in Law My Old Wife My rattling mare And I Paddle your own canoe Polly Perkins The railway belle Rocky Road to Dublin Send back my Barney to me Up with the lark in the morning Very Suspicious The Way to be Happy Where there's a will there's a way Work, Boys, Work and be contented The Young man on the Railway |
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03 May 10 - 04:28 PM (#2899319) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Send Back My Barney to me Written and composed by Harry Clifton, Arr. M Hobson Bb A GGGG F# D Bb C He is gone and I'm now sad and lonely D^ Eb^ D^ C Bb Bb C D^ F# He has left me to cross the wide sea Bb A GGGG F# D Bb C But I know that he thinks of me only C C D C Bb C Bb A G And will soon be returning to me Bb Bb A Bb F^ D^ Bb A C His eyes they were filled with devotion Bb C D^ C Bb Bb C D^ F# As my husband he said he'd soon be Bb A GGGG F D Bb C Then blow gently ye winds of the ocean Bb-C D^ C Bb C Bb A G A-and send back my Barney to me. I think it has some affinity with the lovely Waterson tune. Like this there are no repeats as in 'My Bonny'. |
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03 May 10 - 04:51 PM (#2899330) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Just looking through copies of the Lester Levy website for the Pastor songs which I haven't found yet, I came across more Clifton sheets with music Darby McGuire The Family Man Isabella and her Gingham umbrella Jemima Brown, or the Queen of the Sewing machine Never Look behind Pulling Hard Against the Stream Wait for the Turn of the Tide The Waterford Boys Where the Grass Grows Green Wow! There's some amazing stuff in there! Re the Pastor songs, I don't think I took off copies because I already had the Clifton originals. |
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07 May 10 - 07:54 PM (#2902426) Subject: Send Back My Barney to Me From: Artful Codger See the thread Lyr Add: Barney for a transcription of Clifton's song "Send Back My Barney to Me", which was the precursor or the song "Barney" sung by the Watersons, and possibly of "My Bonny Lies over the Ocean". |
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07 May 10 - 08:32 PM (#2902443) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Leadfingers I have always enjoyed Music Hall songs sung in Folk Clubs , but only found out fairly recently how many of those 'Old Songs' were based on Traditional songs . |
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07 May 10 - 08:39 PM (#2902447) Subject: My Rattling Mare and I From: Artful Codger See this thread (36299) for my music transcription of Clifton's song "My Rattling Mare and I". Earlier in the same thread, Jim Dixon transcribed the lyrics from a broadside in the Bodley Ballads collection. |
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07 May 10 - 09:52 PM (#2902476) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Art Thieme ...and she also went to high school with STEVE GOODMAN !!!! Art Thieme (She's doing a good job in Washington now too.) |
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07 May 10 - 11:39 PM (#2902500) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Art Thieme Sorry! I seem to have misread the title of this thread. Art |
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09 May 10 - 12:13 AM (#2902912) Subject: I Am One of the Olden Time From: Artful Codger See this thread (129356) for Clifton's song "I Am One of the Olden Time" (or "Fifty Years Ago"). |
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10 May 10 - 03:03 PM (#2903897) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham As you can see from the above I am currently slowly sending Artful scans of Harry clifton sheet music so he can post the info and ABC notations. As this is going to be a long process if anyone has any preferences with particular songs please let me know and if I have them I will send them first. Next up should be 'Work, Boys, Work and Be Contented' which curiously goes to 'Work's tune, 'The Prisoner's Hope, or Tramp, Tramo, Tramp, The Boys are Marching'. Meanwhile here is a newspaper review from the back of an edition of that particular song. If for no other reason than it helps with dating some of the titles mentioned. 'THE SONGS OF MR. HARRY CLIFTON,--It is with much pleasure we have to speak of the humorous and pleasing compositions of this very clever vocalist and author, because they supply a want which has long existed, viz, a lively, merry ditty, that can be sung at a private family party, either by lady or gentleman, without the fear of offending propriety. Unfortunately of late a taste has to some extent sprung up for a class of songs of a very questionable character, and 'great comic singers' have received in some instances enormous salaries for doing that which, in the opinion of many, had much better been left alone. but a change has begun to appear, and now real wit and humour seem to be required in place of low vulgarity. To Mr Clifton is the favourable movement mainly to be attributed, because unaided he has worked against the vulgar taste, and that he has succeded is best shown by the very large demand which every new song he issues to the public, through the instrumentality of Messrs. Hopwood & Crew, of New Bond Street, is sure to meet with. In the words of one of his own excellent compositions, he has been 'Pulling hard against the stream,' and at last the popular tide has turned in his favour-- a circumstance that will give pleasure to every lover of mirth and good taste. it would be impossible to enumerate separately the merits of his compositions, but as specimens of his style, we take at random, 'Bear it like a Man,' 'Where there's a Will there's a Way,' 'A Motto for every Man,' 'Work, Boys, Work,' 'Pulling hard against the stream,'My Old Wife,' 'Jones's Musical Party,' 'The Railway Bell(e),' 'It's really very singular,' and 'The good-tempered Man.' Each of the above are entirely of his own composition, both words and music, and in all such a healthy spirit prevails, that the vocalist experiences as much pleasure in singing as a really merry and wise party would certainly feel in listening to them. Mr. Clifton has doubtless worked hard, but the success he is now enjoying must be both a gratification and a satisfaction to him, especially as he has had to overcome difficulties that appeared almost insurmountable."-- Vide "Sun" Newspaper, London, July 8th, 1867. A bit of overenthusiasm in here: 'both words and music'. Clifton didn't write all of the words or all of the music. Certainly 'Work, Boys, Work' stole its unattributed music from Work's work. |
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10 May 10 - 03:38 PM (#2903940) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham What a gaffe! And what a prat! Of course Henry Clay Work didn't write the tune to Prisoner's Hope, it was George F Root. Sorry about that. |
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10 May 10 - 08:09 PM (#2904150) Subject: Work, Boys, Work and Be Contented From: Artful Codger See this thread (129400) for Clifton's song "Work, Boys, Work and Be Contented". |
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11 May 10 - 10:02 AM (#2904446) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky The Era Magazine of August 1862 states that his song The girl in her dress of blue "will become popular". Do we know what were the "difficulties that appeared almost insurmountable"? I found the folowing in The Aberdeen Journal of March 22nd 1865: "Harry Clifton, the inimitable comic singer, takes a benefit in the Music Hall on Tuesday evening next, when he will be supported by a talent of every variety. Harry deserves a full house, especially if the published statement be true that he had his savings in the Birmingham bank which has failed." |
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11 May 10 - 10:40 AM (#2904460) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Sminky, You seem to have answered your own question very adequately. Thanks for this. 'Calico Printer's Clerk' coming up soon. At least one of the following was singing this in the 1960s if I remember rightly. Can anyone verify which, and who sang it first? Harry Boardman, Robin Dransfield, Stefan Sobell. |
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11 May 10 - 12:51 PM (#2904560) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Steve, Mark Dowding is the man to answer that one, methinks. Mark himself has recorded a version. |
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11 May 10 - 02:23 PM (#2904628) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Steve Are you thinking of the Halliard version of Calico Printer's Clark using Dave Moran's tune (recorded 68)? Mick |
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11 May 10 - 06:46 PM (#2904801) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Mick, This is the 3rd attempt to reply. My replies keep vanishing when I submit. The solo singer I remember was with guitar and it would most likely have been Robin Dransfield. |
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12 May 10 - 05:54 AM (#2905066) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Not ex-Halliard Nic Jones then? (I can't see any references to any of the others you suggested doing it; Nic definitely did!). Mick |
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12 May 10 - 05:24 PM (#2905571) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Mick, To be honest I don't remember Nic Jones from that period at all. I'm pretty certain he was not booked at our club at the Bluebell, Hull, not until about 1972. I'd heard 'Calico' being sung by Dransfield or Sobell long before this, and I must have heard it frequently for me to be able to sing the chorus now after 40 odd years. They may have got it from Nic but I later assumed they'd picked it up off Harry Boardman. If that's the case he probably got it off a broadside. I know Harry and Roy Palmer included a broadside printing of it in one of those street literature folders they published in the 70s. |
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12 May 10 - 06:04 PM (#2905594) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Steve Did you hear it to the original tune or Dave Moran's? If the tune is the same one as this: Calico Printer's Clerk (chorus at 00:28), then this is Dave Moran's (of the Halliard) tune. He put it to a broadside text he found in Preston Library. I don't recall any of the others singing it (though I saw Stefan Sobell rarely), but if this was the tune their source was The Halliard. Mick |
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13 May 10 - 05:50 AM (#2905905) Subject: Calico Printer's Clerk From: Artful Codger This "Calico Printer's Clerk" info should probably be placed in one of the song-specific thread, but... I'm still working on a full ABC transcription of the Clifton music suitable for generating a score and MIDI. In the meantime, let me point you to the rendition on YouTube by Pluck & Squeeze, who essentially use Clifton's tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbks7d7xbo |
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13 May 10 - 07:19 AM (#2905940) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky A couple snippets about HC from Era Magazine: "His several Shakesperian (burlesque) songs are well composed and still better sung." August 1859 "City Hall, Glasgow. The comic department was admirably represented by Mr.Harry Clifton, whose reappearance was greeted with enthusiastic cheering. His extraordinary use of extempore rhyming - making the burden of his songs consist of the things he sees and hears about him - was exercised with a peculiarly happy effect on this occasion." Sept 1861 |
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13 May 10 - 09:10 AM (#2906016) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky "Harry Clifton, Author of the Sensation Comic Songs, 'The Dark Girl Dressed in Blue', 'Uncle Joe' and 'Paddington Green' respectfully intimates that the Irish comic songs 'Lannigan's Ball', 'The Rocky Road to Dublin' and 'Darby M'Guire', written expressly for him by Gavan of Galway, are copyright and legally protected; consequently, he politely requests his brother Comiques from singing them in public without permission. Harry Clifton's last new comic songs, 'Barbara Box', 'Paddington Green' and 'Obadiah, Oh!' (the latter sung by Templeton's and the Christy Minstrels) will shortly be published by Hopwood and Crewe, 42 New Bond-street, London." Feb 22 1863 "Notice to the Profession Harry Clifton's three new Original and Copyright Songs 'Isabella, the Barber's Daughter' 'Polly Perkins of Paddington Green' and 'Poor Old Mike' which are creating such a sensation in London, are now ready, and may be had for fifteen stamps each." July 12 1863 |
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13 May 10 - 10:10 AM (#2906049) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky "Another Great Success 'Water Cresses' And she promised for to marry me Upon the first of May When she left me With a bunch of Water Cresses Written, composed and sung by Harry Clifton." Aug 30 1863 "New Music 'The Commercial Man; or Sold Again' 'Mary Ann; or the Roving Gardener' Written and composed by Harry Clifton." May 22 1864 "New Music 'On Board of the Kangaroo' - Hopwood and Crew, 42 New Bond-street - Mr.Harry Clifton's new song is calculated to meet all the requirements of its class. As a specimen of the modernized Dibdin lyric, now much in vogue, it has undoubted merit. The vocal phrasing is clear and forcible, and the words are simple and homely." July 24 1864 "'The Weeping Willer' She sat by the side of the bubblin water Under the weepin willer tree." Oct 23 1864 "'Darby Maguire' Written by D.K.Gavan and sung by Harry Clifton." Jan 15 1865 "Harry Clifton sings his last three original comic compositions 'The Calico Printer's Clerk' 'The Mail Train Driver' and 'The Good-Tempered Man' at his Cosmopolitan Concerts. Pianist - David Williams." Feb 26 1865 "New Music 'The Calico Printer's Clerk'. The song is by Harry Clifton and, of its class, is a very good one. The music is by C. Coote jnr." July 9 1865 I take that to be Charles Coote junior. A chance, maybe, to track down the original tune? |
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13 May 10 - 12:34 PM (#2906134) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky For reasons of space - and my sanity - where there is simply the announcement of a new song, I will just give the title and date. If there is anything unusual/interesting I will quote the extract in full: 'The Railway Belle' 'Michaelmas Day' 'Where there's a will there's a way' 'Orpheus in the Music Halls' Feb 11 1866 "Mr.Harry Clifton's comic Songs and Ballads for 1866, sung at his popular concerts in Great Britain and Ireland:- 'Waiting for thee' sung by Miss F.Edwards 'The younger son' sung by Mr Harry Clifton 'Meet me by sunset' sung by Mr A Bremner 'My old wife' sung by Mr Harry Clifton 'Up a tree' sung by Mr Harry Clifton 'Send back my Barney' sung by Miss F.Edwards 'The bridesmaid' sung by Miss F.Edwards 'Mr Double Stout' sung by Mr Harry Clifton 'Parting in anger' sung by Mr A Bremner 'Shabby genteel' sung by Mr Harry Clifton" July 1 1866 'The will and the way' 'Motto for every man' 'Work, boys, work and be contented' 'Up with the lark in the morning' July 8 1866 "Mr Harry Clifton's Chorus Songs 'Up with the lark in the morning' 'The will and the way' 'Work, boys, work and be contented' 'The motto for every man' 'Paddle your own canoe' Mr Harry Clifton's Popular Ballads and Serio-Comic Songs Sung by Miss Fanny Edwards 'I'm waiting for thee' 'Meet me at sunset' 'The holly bush tree' 'He must have a thousand a year' 'The bridesmaid' 'Send back my Barney to me' 'Love and pride' Mr Harry Clifton's Comic Songs 'The rattling mare' 'My old wife' 'Up a tree' 'Railway Belle' 'Michaelmas Day' 'Barclay's beer' 'Faithless Maria' 'Double stout' 'Shelling green peas' 'The mother-in-law' 'Paddle your own canoe' 'Good-tempered man' 'Calico printer's clerk' 'Waterford boys' 'The mail-train driver' 'Hardware line' 'The pull-back' 'Rocky road to Dublin' 'Weepin willer' 'Darby Maguire' 'On board of the Kangeroo' 'Mary Ann; or the roving gardener' 'Have you seen the ghost?' 'The commercial [?convivial] man' 'Isabella, the barber's daughter' 'Polly Perkins of Paddington Green' 'Poor old Mike' 'Water cresses' 'Lanigan's ball' 'Charity crow' 'Jemima Brown'" 1866 'Pulling hard against the stream' Feb 3 1867 'Bear it like a man' Mar 24 1867 'I'll go and enlist for a sailor' Apr 28 1867 'The family man' 'There's a smile waiting for me at home' 'The happy policeman' 'Where the grass grows green' 'I'm such an agreeable young man' Aug 4 1867 'I'm one of the olden time; or fifty years ago' Sep 29 1867 'The agreeable young man' 'The family man' 'I'm number one' 'Folly and fashion' Nov 3 1867 'What's a married man to do?' Mar 1 1868 |
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13 May 10 - 04:28 PM (#2906298) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Wonderful stuff, Sminky Please keep 'em coming. Mick, Yes, that's the tune. I'm now presuming who I heard was Stefan, as I'm sure someone would have chipped in by now if it was Robin. When we get the thread up and running it will be good to be able to credit the modern tune properly. |
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13 May 10 - 05:04 PM (#2906327) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Sminky, I'd love to know which Shakespearean burlesques he sang. This was very much the province of Sam Cowell with pieces like Macbeth. Could it be that Clifton was the natural successor to Cowell. I have a copy of the cover of 'The Adventures of Robinson Crusoe' written and sung by Harry Clifton. The cover is much more reminiscent of Cowell's sheet music in that it has a little cameo of Clifton at the top and the rest consists of 10 comic cartoons of Crusoe's adventures. |
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13 May 10 - 05:27 PM (#2906340) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Steve The modern tune has been credited in several threads already eg Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk and Tune Req: Calico Printers Clerk. Mick |
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13 May 10 - 06:55 PM (#2906404) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger The Coote tune is the one used in the Pluck & Squeeze clip (see my previous post), which I imprecisely referred to as "Clifton's tune", intending to mean the tune Clifton sang. The original sheet music says, "Written and Sung by HARRY CLIFTON. Composed by C COOTE Jun." All clear? |
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14 May 10 - 04:27 AM (#2906602) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger I've posted transcriptions for "The Calico Printer's Clerk", prepared from Clifton's authorized sheet music, in this thread: 5232 There you will find the lyrics, chords, ABC and (shortly) a MIDI. From the ABC, you can generate a score. |
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14 May 10 - 05:01 AM (#2906624) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky I will continue where I left off yesterday (though I confess I did have a sneaky-peek ahead to learn about the fallout after his death - details to follow). Steve - here's one to look out for: "The great Comic Songs of the Great Comic Singers, in sixpenny books (music and words). Published by C. Sheard, London, 1866. 40 songs of Harry Clifton. 6d." Bargain! |
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14 May 10 - 09:23 AM (#2906747) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky All extracts are from Era Magazine unless otherwise stated: 'Awfully jolly' Mar 29 1868 'The way to be happy' May 31 1868 'True blue and seventy two' 'It's not the miles we travel, but the pace that kills' "(one of the best he has ever written)" Sept 12 1868 "A Pleasing Testimonial - Mr Harry Clifton, the well-known and talented artist, has received a splendid and massive gold watch from the publishers of his favourite songs." Sept 20 1868 'Very suspicious' Oct 11 1868 'Broken down' Oct 18 1868 'Seventy two and hard as steel' Nov 15 1868 'Wait for the turn of the tide' Dec 27 1868 "Mr Harry Clifton, now in the fifth year of his tour of the United Kingdom (it having extended over fifty consecutive months) will have the honour of introducing to the public his new comic songs, 'Uncle John's birthday', 'Musical miseries', 'The wedding of Buddy M'Grane', and a new song with a sentiment, 'Wait for the turn of the tide'." Jan 10 1869 "Mr Harry Clifton's Concert Company Miss Theresa Egan (Soprano) Miss Amelia Packer (Contralto) Miss Annie Kinnaird (Ballad and Serio-Comic) Mr Ernest Fox (Baritone) Mr W Halliday (Solo Pianist) Mr Harry Clifton (Comic) Agent in advance, Mr A Shields." Jan 10 1869 'Look before leaping' 'The Dutchman's courtship' 'Cupid in the kitchen' May 23 1869 "Died, Sept 19th, from effusion of the brain, Albert Charles Shields, Agent-in-advance to Mr Harry Clifton." Sept 25 1870 |
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14 May 10 - 10:31 AM (#2906785) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Things start to go downhill from now on. There is an unexpected break in his 'Grand Tour', some of the performers leave, there are no more new songs. Finally.... "Death of Harry Clifton Lovers of song and seekers after rational amusement in all parts of the kingdom will hear with regret the death of Harry Clifton, whose fame as a comic and 'inotto' vocalist was world-wide, and whose songs were equally as popular and acceptable in the drawing-room of the rich as in the cottages of the poor. Harry Clifton died on Monday last at his residence, Shepherds Bush, at the early age of forty. His health had been gradually giving way for some months, but he did not take to the bed from which he was never to rise again until the Friday immediately preceeding his death. Mr Clifton was a native of Hoddesden, in Hertfordshire, and was educated at Cheshunt. At an early age he was left an orphan, and soon afterwards left home to seek a maintenance by the exercise of his own energy. ................. The deceased was buried on Thursday, at Kensal-green Cemetery." July 21 1872 "The cause of death was dropsy." Glasgow Herald, July 21 1872 "Miss Fanny Edwards (Mrs H Clifton) accompanied by the celebrated company of the late Mr Harry Clifton, are achieving unequivocal success." Oct 13 1872 "The Late Harry Clifton The will of this well-known composer and comic singer is to be opposed by his widow, Mrs Mary Ann Clifton, an application having been made to the Probate Court on Tuesday morning before the Registrars for directions. It appeared that the testator had lived apart form his wife and by his will bequeathed his property of the value of £6000 to Miss Frances Edwards, who had travelled with him as one of his company." Dundee Courier, Nov 17 1872 Unfortunately, I don't know what the outcome of the challenge was (a check of the London Probate records should give the answer). Fanny, or "Mrs Harry Clifton" as she called herself, carried on with the show until 1876. Hopwood and Crew, his publishers, obviously suffered financially after his death and they ran periodic 'half price sales' of his works: "Harry Clifton's celebrated Motto songs 'Trifles light as air' 'Welcome as the flowers in May' 'As long as the world goes round' 'Don't be after ten' 'Could I live my time over again' 'Always do as I do'" The Graphic, Nov 22 1873 And a few years later sold off the copyright of some of his songs: 'As welcome as the flowers in May' (£72) 'It's really very singular' (£82-10s) 'Pulling hard against the stream' (£67-10s) 'Robinson Crusoe' (£132) 'Very suspicious' (£330) Penny Illustrated Paper, Feb 20 1875 And that's about it. I have NO DOUBT that I have missed things - the search engine, though extremely helpful, is not 100% accurate (I found several entries by accident that the search had missed) - and of course, I am only human (no, really), so I will have made mistakes. Still, I think we know more about Harry now than we did before. I am now going to lie down. |
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14 May 10 - 10:55 AM (#2906808) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky .....but not before correcting an error in the extract dated Jan 10 1869 - the song title should read 'The wedding of Biddy M'Grane'. |
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14 May 10 - 11:05 AM (#2906822) Subject: Isabella, the Barber's Daughter From: Artful Codger New thread on "Isabella, the Barber's Daughter": 129482 With lyrics from authorized Clifton sheet music; MIDI soon to appear there as well. |
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14 May 10 - 11:49 AM (#2906874) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky "Harry Clifton's Songs To the Editor of the Era Sir, - Your article in last week's Era respecting the songs sung by Harry Clifton is somewhat inaccurate. The success of 'Paddle your own canoe' was far greater than 'Pretty Polly Perkins'; in fact, 'Paddle your own canoe' was the greatest success Harry Clifton ever had, and the song sells at the present day. ................. I (then Charles Coote, jun.) wrote the music of the song 'Paddle your own canoe', the valse refrain of which is taken from 'The Queen of the harvest' valse, composed by me, and, furthermore, the music of the following songs, to many of which Harry Clifton's name appears as composer, was taken from valses composed by me, viz. 'Modern times', 'Bear it like a man', 'Could I live my time over again', 'I'm number one', 'Never look behind', 'Motto for every man', 'One of the olden time' etc. The name of Harry Clifton does there [Harry Clifton's Song Book] appear as composer to several songs of which the music is mine. Yours faithfully, Charles Coote (no longer junior) Managing Director of Hopwood and Crew, Limited 42 New Bond-street, June 6th." Era Magazine, Jun 10 1899 |
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14 May 10 - 04:06 PM (#2907031) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Wow! The only thing I can add for the moment is that his material went through a robust revival in the late nineteenth century. Well done, Sminky! Some very revealing info and the dates to the songs are very useful. Someone should attempt a proper biography now! I wish Coote had given us a more thorough rundown of his contributions. |
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14 May 10 - 10:30 PM (#2907299) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Tunes/lyrics for several Clifton songs have turned up in the book "Weston and Hussey Minstrels' Book of Songs, No. 1"; see this message by Jim Dixon and mine following, in the "Work, Boys, Work" thread: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129400#2906879 Steve, just a guess, but by "Shakespearean burlesques" they may have meant songs like "Wait till the Turn of the Tide" which was inspired by the quote: "There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, Taken at the flood, leads on to fortune." |
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15 May 10 - 04:45 AM (#2907370) Subject: Bear It Like a Man From: Artful Codger New thread for "Bear It Like a Man", with lyrics, ABC of the melody and (soon) MIDI of the melody, as given in the Weston & Hussey book: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129496 I also posted "Pulling Hard Against the Stream" from the same source, with lyrics and melody ABC; MIDI to come. It's in one of the "Do Your Best for One Another" threads (this being a common title for the song): http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=111338#2907353 |
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15 May 10 - 03:59 PM (#2907655) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Artful, You may be right, but in the 1850s there was a vogue for burlesque songs and Shakespeare's plays was one of the targets. Hamlet, Macbeth and Richard III took a bashing. Sam Cowell was the most famous performer of them. |
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16 May 10 - 12:36 PM (#2908049) Subject: The Railway Belle From: Artful Codger New thread for "The Railway Belle": http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129519 |
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16 May 10 - 06:57 PM (#2908226) Subject: Rare Clifton songs From: Artful Codger A rare find! I was contacted by a great-niece of Clifton's asking if I'd be interested in a limited-edition topical songster of Clifton's songs. Unfortunately, the asking price was worlds beyond my means, but she emailed me a scan of the table of contents: Harry Clifton's Artful Codger Songbook (1871) 11 Could I Live My Childhood Over Again 7 The Fumble-y Man 9 Have You Seen My Glasses? 18 He Had Such a Wheezing Way 16 I'll Go Enlist in a Rest Home 15 I'm Such an Agrievèd Old Man 4 Isabella, Your Father's Dotty 14 A Maalox for Every Man 5 Mr Dribble Spout 3 No Clue and Seventy-Two 6 Paddle Your Young Ne-phew 8 Pushing Hard to Form a Stream 13 Put Depends On When You're Going Downtown 12 Recall It If You Can 10 Where the Great Grouse Groans (or, Get off my Lawn!) 17 Where There's a Willy There's a Wilt |
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16 May 10 - 06:58 PM (#2908227) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger ** SPOILER ALERT ** Of course, the preceding post was my little joke, inspired by a question from Steve Gardham: whether Clifton wrote any songs about senility. I could make you do a "Where's Waldo?" to find all the real Clifton song titles, but being a kind sort, I'll provide the key: Could I Live My Time Over Again The Family Man Have You Seen the Ghost? He Had Such a Wheedling Way I'll Go Enlist for a Sailor I'm Such an Agreeable Man Isabella, the Barber's Daughter A Motto for Every Man Mr Double Stout True Blue and Seventy-Two Paddle Your Own Canoe Pushing Hard Against the Stream Put the Brake On When You're Going Downhill Deny It If You Can Where the Green Grass Grows Where There's a Will There's a Way |
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16 May 10 - 07:36 PM (#2908243) Subject: Actual Clifton song finds From: Artful Codger Google Books has a number of entries that are sets of old songsters combined into a single e-book. In two of these sets I found lyrics for some of the Clifton songs mentioned in this thread but for which no lyrics or tune has been previously posted or cross-referenced. Note that the folks putting these up at Google decided (for the most part) to reset the pagination for each book, so you can only specify a page number once you've scrolled into that particular songster--a search on title would probably be quicker. For this reason, I list all the songsters within an entry, regardless of whether they contain songs I wish to list or not. I have not attempted to list ALL the Clifton songs contained in these songsters, mainly just the ones not yet found elsewhere. Be forewarned that these lyrics were probably altered somewhat from Clifton's own--he is seldom credited at all, even when a songster generally gives credits. Those starred I believe to be unharvested, those with query marks might correspond to the indicated Clifton titles (also unharvested). Tony Pastor's 201 Bowery Songster http://books.google.com/books?id=l4kvAAAAYAAJ Tony Pastor 201 Bowery Songster: A Motto for Every Man (p.53) My Old Wife (p.67) *Pull Back (p.33 = The Pull-Back) The Railway Belle (p.27) *Up a Tree (p.39) Where There's a Will There's a Way (p.66) Tony Pastor's Carte de Visite Album Songster (1865) *Hardware Line (p.31) Jemima Brown (p.67) *Number One (p.59 ?= I'm Number One) ?Sewing Machine (p.20) Clown's Songster Agnes Wallace's Little Diamond Songster: *As Long as the World Goes Round! *I'll Go and Enlist for a Sailor (p. 57) Pulling Hard against the Stream Songs Sung by Jim Wambold / Comic Song Book Gus. Williams Water Mill Songster (1877) Billy Andrews' Comic Songster http://books.google.com/books?id=mIkvAAAAYAAJ Billy Andrews' Comic Songster Billy (W.E.) Burke's Barnum and Great London Circus Songster (with tunes) Jennie Engle's Upon the Grand Parade Songster On Board of the Kangaroo (p. 50) The Fieldings' Songster John Foster's Favorite Clown Songster Bachelor ?= Family Man (p.8) Pulling Hard... (p.35, with music in dyads) ?Awfully Clever (?= Awfully Jolly) (p.12, with music in dyads), wm: G.W. Hunt) *Broken Down (p.56) *I'll Go and Enlist for a Sailor (p.57) *Never Look Behind (p.44) Another mystery solved: from scans which Steve Gardham just sent me, it appears that "The Mail Train Driver" is just an alternate title for "The Young Man on the Railway". Transcriptions to follow shortly. |
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17 May 10 - 12:01 AM (#2908347) Subject: More Clifton song finds From: Artful Codger Browsing a bit more at the Bodley with an expanded list of song titles, I found the lyrics to the following: As Welcome as the Flowers in May (aka The Jolly Miller) I live at the mill at the foot of the hill *Granny Snow! *Jones' Musical Party *Mary Ann, or the Roving Gardener *My Old Wife. Harding B 11(2576) Poor Old Mike Put the Break [sic] On When You're Going down the Hill There's a Smile Waiting for Me at Home Water Cresses! Harding B 11(4046) The Watercress Girl *The Way to Be Happy The Weeping Willer Up a Tree *The Young Man on the Railway (= The Mail Train Driver) Steve Gardham has sheet music or scans for the starred items, which means I may be posting MIDIs and/or ABCs for them in due course. "My Old Wife" uses the same music and nearly the same chorus as "My Rattling Mare and I," for which I've already posted music. Steve noticed this similarity, and theorized that it was a parody written after Clifton jilted his wife and took up with Fanny Edwards. Note: Someone somewhere along the line wondered if "The Weepin Willer" was a Geordy parody of "Polly Perkins". Judging from my brief inspection, I'd say no. I forgot to check the titles found in the HC Comic Songster, which I haven't yet incorporated into my personal list. If anyone has music for these titles, aside from Steve's holdings, please send me scans! PM me for an email address. Also, can some friendly soul Down Under scan the music to "The Adventures of Robinson Crusoe" in the National Library of Australia and send it along? |
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17 May 10 - 02:16 AM (#2908370) Subject: More Harry Clifton finds From: Artful Codger Lyrics for three other songs lifted above in the Bodley broadside collection: Barclay's Beer Shelling Green Peas Trifles Light as Air |
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17 May 10 - 08:29 AM (#2908477) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Well done with those songs, you men. I'm still digging so I might have some more snippets later today. |
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17 May 10 - 11:34 AM (#2908572) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky 'The dream of John Bull and Jonathan' Jan 12 1862 'The teetotal alphabet' Mar 9 1862 "Marylebone Music Hall High-street Marylebone (Proprietor, R.Botting) Unprecedented attraction - The best entertainment in London - Great success of Harry Clifton with his wonderful GHOST (Patented)." Sep 6 1863 "Mr Harry Clifton, who appeared for the first time this season, treated the audience to two very silly compositions entitled in the programme, 'Glasgow Sensations', and 'The Miller's Daughters'. Why the former was entitled 'Glasgow Sensations' we are at a loss to understand, unless it was on account of a total absence of allusion to Glasgow in the song. We have yet to learn that Mrs Yelverton, Garibaldi, or the Davenports can be reckoned as Glasgow sensations". Jan 15 1865 |
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17 May 10 - 11:54 AM (#2908579) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Some HC songs amongst the Axon Broadside Collection: Brigham Young Jerusalem Cuckoo (Donkey Driver) |
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17 May 10 - 11:55 AM (#2908580) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Send Back My Barney To Me/John Bull and (Jonathan) the Yankey Where the Grass Grows Green |
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17 May 10 - 11:57 AM (#2908581) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky ...and finally a song about him: Death of Harry Clifton |
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17 May 10 - 02:40 PM (#2908651) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Sminky, I'm pretty sure 'Brigham Young' is Joe Geoghegan, not Clifton. Also I think 'Jerusalem Cuckoo' predates Clifton, although he did use the tune in one of his medleys. The 1862 I have not seen before. Great stuff. To facilitate further dating I've compared your 'Era' dating with the serial numbers on my original sheets and come up with the following table that is pretty consistent. Upto and including 1863 485-589 1864 563 (some discrepancy here.may have been registered earlier) 1865 703-732 1866 737-995 (outlier On Board Kangaroo=1371) 1867 1215-1258 1868 1429-1542 These are all Hopwood & Crew serial numbers preceded by H&C. Some Clifton songs were also published by B Williams, Metzler & Co, Ashdown & Parry, Edwin Ashdown. Clifton was said to have written 500 songs. In the period we have survivals for which appears to be c1862-1872 I have about 120 song titles. |
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18 May 10 - 05:23 AM (#2909056) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Steve, Yeah, sorry about those first two songs, they happened to be in my head when I was looking through Axon! It was frustrating coming across entries stating that HC sang 'several new songs' on a particlar night, but no titles given. I suspect many of his songs had done the rounds before they were announced to the public, so may be older than stated. 'Mary Ann (a reference to his wife?); or the Roving Gardener' was already 'an immense hit' by the time it was 'released' in 1864. Incidentally, Fanny Edwards seems to have given up the Music Hall soon after 1876 and took up Comic Opera. She joined the D'Oyly Carte company and had a successful career, by all accounts, up to the end of the century. Still searching..... |
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18 May 10 - 06:56 AM (#2909086) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky "St Jude's, Dublin Mr Harry Clifton, the celebrated comic vocalist, introduces his new songs (local, social, jovial, critical, and political), among others 'The Galway Lever line', 'Out for the night' and 'Dublin Rhymes', etc, etc" Freeman's Journal, Dublin, Feb 12 1859 "Mr Harry Clifton was clever as usual, and in his 'Rhymes on the Times; or, Edinburgh in 1863' made a humerous allusion to Councillor McNish and his "difficulties", which provoked a good deal of laughter at that gentleman's expense; but we admire him far less in these and other "sensation" songs than in his Irish ballads, such as 'The Ould Grey Mare' and the 'Wedding at Ballypoorreen', the last of which he gave in answer to an encore, and which contains more of real humour, and, we may add, of real music than all his impersonations of 'Old Bob Ridley's' and 'Perfect Cure' put together." Caledonian Mercury, Edinburgh, Feb 16 1863 |
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18 May 10 - 08:27 AM (#2909138) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Leadfingers 100 |
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18 May 10 - 10:32 AM (#2909201) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Does that mean the round's on you? |
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18 May 10 - 10:48 AM (#2909207) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky "A Chat with David Gray On Monday, May 1st, 1865 - so well do I remember the date - I entered the service of Hopwood and Crew, in Bond-street. They were then the publishers of all the popular songs. ............... I was twelve years with Hopwood and Crew, and in those cirumstances met most of the well-known artists of that day - Harry Clifton, for instance, whose 'motto' songs were mostly set to Mr Coote's waltzes, such as the 'Cornflower', 'Queen of the Harvest' and 'Innocence'." Era, Sep 25, 1897 "Editorial Now, Harry Clifton was his own lyric author and composer, and very rarely sang any but his own compositions. In London he was an immense favourite, and made a speciality on motto songs. Amongst these effusions may be mentioned 'Never look behind', 'Up with the lark in the morning', 'It's not the miles we travel', 'There's nothing succeeds like success' and 'Paddle your own canoe', a song that is still sung in remote parts of the country. We heard an old boy of seventy-two struggle through it only a couple of Easters ago. One scarcely looks for the subject of a comic song in the Bible, but that's where the sentiment of 'Paddle your own canoe' comes from. When this ditty was written - 1863 - Mr J Mcgregor was travelling all over Europe with his celebrated boat, the Rob Roy, and canoes were all the vogue. Mr Clifton also gave 'The dark girl dressed in blue', 'On board the Kangaroo', 'My Matilda Jane', but the greatest of all his successes was undoubtedly 'Pretty Polly Perkins'. .......... Mr W H Morrish, still happily alive, "ran" Mr Harry Clifton and his concert party through all the principal towns in England in 1867, when 'Polly Perkins' and 'Paddle your own canoe' were, perhaps, the most popular items. It may be pointed out that at least one song, 'Percy St Barbe', was written and composed by Charles Blatherwick. Many of the composers of the day supplied him with melodies, including F A Springthorpe, J Holbrook, Charles Coote jnr, M Hobson and G Operti. But Harry Clifton did the lion's share of the numberless songs he presented to the laughter-loving world. Poor Harry Clifton! He was a most successful man, cast off in the very prime of life, for he died as far back as 1872, on July 15th, aged only forty years. But he did more than most of us, for he certainly added to the gaiety of his fellow man and he left behind him several compositions that are still alive." Era, Jun 3, 1899 "To the Editor of the Era .............. I may add that I enjoyed the acquaintance of the late Harry Clifton. Harry Clifton was very near my prototype. I made up the characters as he did, and sang his songs long after his death at Evans's Hotel - 'Jolly Old English Squire', 'Welcome as the flowers in May', etc, and Mr Charles Coote, of the firm of Hopwood and Crew, printed my name on the title pages. Yours faithfully, J W Rowley 156 Lambeth-walk. June 8th." Era, Jun 10, 1899 The above is presumably the same J W Rowley for whom Joseph Bryan Geoghegan wrote Down in a coal mine. |
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18 May 10 - 03:03 PM (#2909384) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham As Welcome as the Flowers in May, published by Metzler actually credits Rowley as having sung it, but his name doesn't appear on any of the Hopwood and Crew covers I've seen. The other singer who crops up a lot is Fred French. I think the editor of Era has got the wrong date on 'Paddle' unless there was an earlier edition. The serial number fits in the 1866 bracket which is the date given by the Era in the contemporary mention. These early references prior to 1860 are very interesting. We know very little about this period. The Music Hall was just in its infancy then. I think it says somewhere in the thread earlier on that Fanny emigrated to America in about 1889. |
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18 May 10 - 03:16 PM (#2909392) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Here is a much fuller listing of Hopwood and Crew's serial numbers for HC's sheet music chronologically arranged. 1862 407 416 1863 485 492 493 495 496 (589) 1864 516 563 573 1865 588 600 607 703 732 1866 737 760 766 787 795 936 944 952 988 989 995 996 997 (1371) (1477) 1867 1158 1215 1222 1258 1263 1267 1389 1868 1383 1429 1479 1480 1542 1589 (1893) 1869 (1388) 1601 1656 1723 (2183) 1870 1851 1879 1944 1947 2172 may be later (1871) Apart from a few misplaced they seem to follow a regular pattern well enough to date any others that turn up without a date. |
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18 May 10 - 06:50 PM (#2909519) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Oxford Library OLIS has 85 Clifton songs catalogued online and available for inspection or purchase of copies. Some are in multiple copies and a few are duplicated in the 85. They are part of the Bodleian Collection pre 1920 Catalogues, either in the Harding Music Collection or in Music Vol III. Go to the search and bring up authors then enter 'Clifton, Harry' Useful for serial numbers, dates, lithographs and first lines, etc. |
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19 May 10 - 06:39 AM (#2909803) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Steve, Extracts from an account of John Mcgregor, quoting entries in his diary, from the year 1865: "Idea about canoe voyage was in germ to-day," and ten days later, "Canoe project hatched." On June 21 he wrote, "Went to see my canoe the Rob Roy" and on the 27th, "Saw the Rob Roy completed." A month after that he started on his first famous tour. So an 1863 date for 'Paddle', based on Mcgregor's exploits, is plainly wrong. In 1890 Fanny Edwards was appearing in 'The Gondoliers', playing the part of the Duchess, at the Chicago Opera House. Fred French crops up regularly, particularly after HC's death, being credited on a number of occasions with the authorship of HC's songs. Indeed, it was these spurious claims which prompted some of the letters to The Era, quoted above. Mr French "never achieved such success and popularity as Harry Clifton, whose songs he frequently sang" (Era, Jun 3, 1899). |
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19 May 10 - 09:27 AM (#2909869) Subject: The Young Man on the Railway From: Artful Codger New thread for the song "The Young Man on the Railway" (or, "The Mail Train Driver"): http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129575 |
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19 May 10 - 05:00 PM (#2910132) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham I'm about to send the scores for 'Lannigans Ball' and 'Jones's Musical Party'. If anyone else has any particular preference for a Clifton song not already posted please let me know and I'll do my best. Artful has asked me to prioritise the comic songs and I will do so. If anyone wants any of the motto songs do ask. Even if I haven't got the score I might have the text on a broadside. |
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20 May 10 - 02:52 AM (#2910381) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Words for "My Old Wife" posted in the thread for "My Rattling Mare and I"; the former was apparently the precursor of the latter, and the tune is the same for both (already posted). |
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20 May 10 - 05:57 AM (#2910440) Subject: My Mother-in-Law From: Artful Codger New thread for the song "My Mother-in-Law" (or "Advice to Persons About to Marry"): http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129590 It seemed a suitable companion piece for "My Old Wife" and "My Rattling Mare and I". A PDF of the sheet music is available in the Lester S. Levy Collection; lyrics and (soon) MIDI are the new thread. |
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20 May 10 - 10:40 AM (#2910571) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky We can now date 'Paddle', 'Kangaroo', 'The hardware line' and 'Girls of ------ Road' to no later than 1865. The Word on the Street website (courtesy of the National Library of Scotland) has some dated broadsides which themselves list a 'Catalogue of Newest Song' - this one for example (scroll down for the list). Jemima Brown also appears, again with an 1865 date. |
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21 May 10 - 06:53 AM (#2911141) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky A list of HC titles on sale at The SheetMusic Warehouse: Forty Years Ago sung by Fanny Edwards at Harry Cliftons Concerts W&M: Arthur Willoughby I Am One of the Olden Time or Fifty Years Ago sung by Harry Clifton, W&M: H Clifton, Arr. M Hobson Jones Musical Party (The Comical Concert) a song of songs sung by Harry Clifton W&M: H Clifton, Arr. M Hobson Mary Ann or The Roving Gardener W&M: Harry Clifton My Mother in Law or Advice to persons about to Marry W&M: Harry Clifton My Old Wife Characteristic Song sung by Harry Clifton W&M: H Clifton, Arr. M Hobson On Board of the Kangaroo sung by Harry Clifton W&M: H Clifton, J Candy Paddle Your Own Canoe The Celebrated Song - Transcribed for Pianoforte, Written and Sung by Mr Harry Clifton Transcribed for Pianoforte by Brinley Richards Paddle your own Canoe sung by Fred French, also sung by Hary Clifton Harry Clifton, Arr. M Hobson The Way to be Happy a song with a sentiment sung by Harry Clifton, dedicated to Duncan McLaren W&M: H Clifton Up with the Lark in the Morning serio-comic song sung by Harry Clifton W&M. H Clifton, F A Springthorpe, Arr. M Hobson Love and Pride W&M: H Clifton, M Hobson Modern times or Past and Present W&M: H Clifton, C Coote Jun |
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21 May 10 - 09:56 AM (#2911237) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky and some more 'no longer available': A Bit of My Mind sung by Harry Clifton Words & Music: Harry Clifton Bear it like a Man sung by Harry Clifton Words & Music: H Clifton, arr. M Hobson Love and Pride Words & Music: H Clifton, M Hobson Never Look Behind or Whats the use of Looking Back sung by Harry Clifton dedicated to Mr John Skinner Words & Music: Harry Clifton Polly Perkins of Paddington Green or the Broken Hearted Milkman Words & Music: Harry Clifton, Arr. J Candy Pulling Hard Against the Stream Words & Music: M Hobson, H Clifton Very Suspicious comic duet sung by Fanny Edwards & Harry Clifton Words & Music: Harry Clifton, Arr. M Hobson Where Theres a Will Theres a Way serio comic song sung by Harry Clifton & Fred French Words & Music: H Clifton, Arr. M Hobson |
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21 May 10 - 03:59 PM (#2911502) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Sminky, I have a full set on microfiche of 'The Glasgow Poet's Box' which is presumably the dated broadsides you refer to. Clifton seems to have been particularly popular in Glasgow. I haven't registered 'The Girls of _____Road' as a Clifton song. Once again I would imagine this is a Joe Geoghegan song, 'The Girls of Glossop Road'. It starts 'I'm just in the vein to sing you a strain'. I haven't got a note of that particular copy, but in looking in my indexes I found another version 'The Girls Up the Road' printed by Such of London. The song is on our website www.yorkshirefolksong.net sung by Ken Hinchliffe. Aha! just found another version in the Glasgow Poet's Box where it's called 'The Girls of Paisley Road'. Great stuff. If you hadn't posted that I wouldn't have connected all of these 4 versions. All of this needs transferring to the Geoghegan thread. |
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21 May 10 - 08:36 PM (#2911708) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger "The Girls of ___ Road" is probably "The Girls up the Road" (in the online Bodley collection). Within the lyrics, the road's name is blanked out (as in the first-given title), presumably to avoid lawsuits--it's about hookers. |
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22 May 10 - 05:38 AM (#2911861) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger New thread for "True Blue and Seventy-Two" (cover says "Seventy-Two and Hard as Steel"): http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129633 With a transcription of the lyrics, and ABC of the melody and (soon) a couple MIDIs. |
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23 May 10 - 10:14 PM (#2912851) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger New thread for "Jemima Brown (the Queen of the Sewing Machine)": http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=12967511 Original sheet music at the Levy. I posted an ABC/MIDI of the melody and linked to lyrics at Word on the Street transcribed from a broadside. |
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24 May 10 - 02:19 AM (#2912934) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger New thread for "Granny Snow": http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129677 With lyrics, notes and ABC transcription from the original sheet music. MIDI (voice and accompaniment) to follow. |
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25 May 10 - 03:51 AM (#2913745) Subject: A Jolly Old Country Squire From: Artful Codger New thread for "A Jolly Old Country Squire" (also titled "The Leicestershire Squire"): http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129708 With lyrics, notes and ABC transcription from the original sheet music. MIDI of melody to follow. |
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25 May 10 - 05:45 AM (#2913799) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Steve, Sorry about my mix-up (again!). HC and JBG have become one and the same person in my head! |
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25 May 10 - 03:40 PM (#2914155) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham No probs, Sminky. Hopefully when we've got as much Clifton stuff up there as we can we'll be able to make a start on Joe Geoghegan, and then Harry Fox, Harry Linn, Arthur Lloyd, Sam Cowell etc. All of these left us a decent legacy of folk song. |
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27 May 10 - 02:27 AM (#2915123) Subject: Jones' Musical Party From: Artful Codger New thread for "Jones' Musical Party": http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129753 This is a rather long piece, a "song of songs". A polyphonic MIDI of the whole piece is on the way; meantime, there are ABCs of the main parts, as well as the usual lyrics and notes, and some information on a the songs used. |
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27 May 10 - 12:29 PM (#2915373) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky No composer given for this one: " 'Down by the Sea' Sung by Miss Fanny Edwards at Mr Harry Clifton's Popular concerts. Words and music at Hopwood and Crew's, 42, New bond-street." Era, Feb 18 1866 |
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27 May 10 - 02:57 PM (#2915467) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham 'Down by the Sea' New one on me. Kilgarriff has a song of that title but it's dated 1891 so it can't be that. I can't see it on the lists on any of the back covers. |
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27 May 10 - 06:24 PM (#2915588) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Mick Pearce (MCP) BL catalogue has an entry of that name from c1835 published by George and Manby, London: Down By The Sea, a ballad written and composed with an accompaniment for the pianoforte by F.W.Smith. Mick |
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27 May 10 - 06:34 PM (#2915595) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham I'd have thought 1835 was too early, Mick. It's possibly one of HC's lesser known pieces. |
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27 May 10 - 06:47 PM (#2915609) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Could it be "Meet Me Down by the Sea", "Composed and sung by H. S. Thompson"? (Canteen Songster, 1866) |
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29 May 10 - 10:36 PM (#2916981) Subject: Very Suspicious / Awfully Jolly From: Artful Codger New thread for the song "Very Suspicious": http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129824 This "song" incorporates tunes from nine other songs, which I'm either posting or linking. Among them is Clifton's song "Awfully Jolly"; I'll be posting lyrics, ABC and MIDI for "Awfully Jolly" in the same thread. |
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31 May 10 - 10:13 PM (#2918108) Subject: Folly and Fashion From: Artful Codger New thread for "Folly and Fashion", a duet sung by Harry Clifton and Fanny Edwards: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129869 |
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31 May 10 - 11:14 PM (#2918126) Subject: Lyr Add: BROKEN DOWN (Harry Clifton) From: Artful Codger BROKEN DOWN Written and sung by Harry Clifton. [1860s] Once I'd money plenty! And friends, too, by the score, Then fortune smiled upon me And no one pass'd my door, Now I'm poor and lonely, And not worth half-a-crown, Now no one seems to know me, I'm completely Broken Down! CHORUS. I wander thro' the world, And meet with many a frown, No one seerns to know me now, Because I'm Broken Down. With an ample fortune I went it rather fast, The pace was almost killing, And I found it couldn't last Too proud to put the curb on, I thought myself high bred, And now, for want of bread at times I have to fast instead. The immortal Shakespeare Says, "All the world's a stage And every man must play his part, From childhood to old age," And when I think of days gone by, How I was made a fool Of rogues, and sharps, 'tis then I know My part has been the fool. I wander, &c. Friends could recognize me, When Poole he made my coat, But when I had no note to change, How soon they changed their note. An object sad and needy, I wander thro' the town, A living paradox am I, Hard up, yet broken down. I wander thro' the world, And meet with many a frown. The time to try your friends you'll find Is when you've Broken Down. Source: Bodley Ballads, Harding B 11(199); between 1840 and 1866 Printer: J. Harkness, Preston. Sheet no.: 978 On same sheet: Bear good will to all men |
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31 May 10 - 11:46 PM (#2918145) Subject: Lyr Add: THE HARDWARE LINE (Harry Clifton) From: Artful Codger THE HARDWARE LINE. [Words by Harry Clifton, 1865. Music by Andrew Banks. Arranged by Martin Hobson.] Yes, my old dad was a money making notary And, sipping his wine, has often told That woman was a riddle aad marriage a lottery, And wives at the Altar were bought and sold. His reason for this I cannot divine, For it was not the case with the wife of mine, She'd a father, and a mother, and a sister, and a brother. And they all got a living in the Hardware line. Chorus—She'd a father, etc. The words that he utter'd caused quite a panic In my youthful mind, so I soon did decide To cut broad cloth, and, in the garb of a mechanic, From the unwash'd multitude seek a bride, 'Twas there I found this wife of mine, When I laid my heart at Cupid's shrine, She'd a father, and a mother, and a sister, and a brother And they all got a living in the Hardware line. She'd a father, etc. Ev'ry town and village I did rummage 'em, England, Ireland, and Scotland through, Till at last I came to the good old town of Brummagem, A second edition of the Wand'ring Jew ; 'Twas there I lost this heart of mine To one of the gender feminine ; She'd a father, and a mother, aud a sister, and a brother. And they all got a living in the Hardware line. She'd a father, etc. Her brother was a gunsmith, her sister was a burnisher, Her mother made buttons at three-pence a gross, Her father he plated harness furniture, She kept the books of profit and loss; Three months for her did I waste and pine, Before I asked her to resign ; Her father, and her mother, her sister, and her brother That all got a living in the Hardware line. Her father, etc. She's a first rate hand at a brewing or a baking, She can knit silk purses, or make mince pies, Her bonnets and her dresses are all her own making, Her home-made bread takes all by surprise; Champagne or Claret from the banks of the Rhine Can't be compared to her Gooseberry wine, Tho' she's a father, and a mother, and a sister, and a brother, And they all get a living in the Hardware line. Tho' she's a father, etc. My days they pass in one round of pleasure, I feel as if I should never grow old, For a wife that is good is a priceless treasure, And more to a man than silver and gold; Far better than a useless lady-fine, Is this busy, merry, cheerful little wife of mine, Tho' she's a father, and a mother, and a sister, and a brother, And they all get a living in the Hardware line. Tho' she's a father, etc. Source: Tony Pastor's Carte de Visite Album Songster (1865), p.31 Part of the set of songsters labelled _Tony Pastor's 201 Bowery Songster_: http://books.google.com/books?id=l4kvAAAAYAAJ Note: Pagination resets for each songster From the OLIS catalog: Written & sung ... by Harry Clifton; sung also by Frank Sadlier. [Composed by Andrew Banks; arranged by M. Hobson.] London : Hopwood & Crew, [1865] H & C.588 |
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02 Jun 10 - 03:27 AM (#2918858) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger New thread for "The Family Man" (A Respectable Family Man): http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129901 |
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03 Jun 10 - 03:56 AM (#2919624) Subject: Never Look Behind (Harry Clifton) From: Artful Codger New thread for "Never Look Behind": http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129936 |
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04 Jun 10 - 11:27 AM (#2920536) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Sminky I've been tracing the last few months of Harry's life (all quoted are form Era Magazine unless otherwise stated): Jan 1870 Fifth year of his Concert Company's tour of the UK begins, starting in Edinburgh (where Fanny Edwards sang 'Murmur of the Shell'). Known Venues: Edinburgh, Gt. Yarmouth, Ipswich, Gravesend, Falmouth, Folkestone, Bristol, Aberdare, Hereford, Bury (Lancs.), Dublin. Nov 6 1870 - Dublin "In Dublin Mr. Clifton spent much of his early life and in Dublin he has achieved both fame and success. His occasional visits to his old home are always welcome." Known Venues: Accrington, Bradford, Bacup, Bridgewater. Sep 10 1871 "Harry Clifton - This favourite vocalist, author and composer leaves for a time the scenes of his early triumph, and early in '72, under the management of Mr F.J.Cooper, business director for Colonel Holmes Gorver, sails for New York, California, Japan, the Sandwich Islands and Australia." Dec 10 1871 "Unfortunately, the 'Prince of Comics' was suffering from a severe cold, and after a couple of unuccessful attempts, had to retire for the evening." Feb 1872 Known Venues: Bedford, Gt Yarmouth. Apr 21 "Mr Redfern Hollins, Tenor, and Miss Annie Kinniard [sic], Soprano, conclude their third season with Harry Clifton's Concert Company on May 4th, when they will be at Liberty to accept Engagements." May 3 - Bath Assembly Rooms "On the 3d inst. Mr Harry Clifton and his talented party gave a farewell concert at these rooms." July 21 Announcement of Harry's death. There are no announcements of any new songs throughout this period. The Bath 'farewell' concert is aptly named - it appears to be his last. Did he go on his 'world trip'? Was it strictly a business venture, or for health reasons? Did Hollins and Kinnaird jump ship because they realised there would be no more tours? |
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04 Jun 10 - 03:05 PM (#2920691) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham The newspapers for Sept/Oct 1871 in NY, California and Australia should throw some light on it. |
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04 Jun 10 - 06:11 PM (#2920819) Subject: A Motto for Every Man From: Artful Codger New thread for "A Motto for Every Man": http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129964 |
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07 Jun 10 - 06:46 AM (#2922241) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger Lyrics (and soon, MIDI) for "Where the Grass Grows Green" posted to the thread "Lyr Req: Danny Blake": http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=5352 (The song begins "I'm Denny Blake from County Clare") In that thread, Jim Dixon had previously posted the lyrics from an American broadside. The version I posted is from American sheet music corresponding a bit closer to the original. The Bodley has several broadside copies of the lyrics online, and two copies of the original sheet music in its stacks. |
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09 Jun 10 - 02:11 AM (#2923662) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger New thread for "Wait for the Turn of the Tide": http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130051 |
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11 Jun 10 - 04:23 PM (#2925710) Subject: Shabby Genteel From: Artful Codger New thread for "Shabby Genteel": http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130117 Lyrics and two settings, one (presumably) by Clifton, the other by Gus Williams. I also recently posted the original versions of these songs in their respective threads: Faithless Maria; or She Lived in the Land of Green Ginger: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=67211 I'll Go and Enlist for a Sailor; or Song of the Unfortunate Tailor: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=25049 Many thanks to Mike Heaney for his transcriptions of some of the Clifton songs from sheet music in the Bodley vaults! |
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15 Jun 10 - 12:30 AM (#2928058) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger New threads for: It's Not the Miles We Travel, But the Pace That Kills: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130179 The Way to Be Happy: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130178 |
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24 Jun 10 - 05:06 AM (#2933795) Subject: The Weepin' Willer From: Artful Codger New thread for "The Weepin' Willer": http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130380 |
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06 Jul 10 - 10:10 AM (#2940656) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Digging into people's genealogical background often throws up some interesting info: Fanny (Frances Wright) Edwards was a Burnley lass, born 1843 to a Scottish father, George, and Irish mother, Alice. A lodger at their Curzon St. home in 1851 was an Edward Wilson, comedian, and one wonders whether this exposure to 'show business' at an early age was to influence her career path (the alternative was working in the cotton mill, presumably). She was already styled 'vocalist', aged 17, by the time the family had moved to Manchester. Her sister Hannah (b.Burnley 1852) married the tenor Redfern Hollins (b.Sheffield) and adopted the stage name of Miss Annie Kinnaird. Husband and wife were both members of HC's travelling company (see above). A brother George (b. Manchester 1855) adopted the name of Julian Edwards and became a successful composer on Broadway. Interestingly, Fanny styled herself 'Fanny Clifton, widow' on the 1881 census. Fanny Edwards |
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06 Jul 10 - 02:06 PM (#2940749) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Fascinating stuff, Sminky. Somebody should write the book or at least set up a website. As far as material ending up in oral tradition is concerned there can't be many other writers/performers who have contributed so much, whether you like his stuff or not. |
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07 Jul 10 - 05:54 AM (#2941093) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Very true, Steve. I just wish he'd live a bit longer (It's not the miles we travel, but the pace that kills!). Here's a 'family gathering' I found in the John Johnson Archive of Printed Ephemera (Bodleian Library): During the evening: Miss Fanny Edwards (Mrs. H. Clifton) will sing Ye maiden in springtime, (Dinorah), The Minstrel Boy, Whither, Ship Boy's Letter, &c. Miss Annie Kinnaird will sing Snake in the Grass, Bailiff's Daughter, While walking out so early, &c. Mr. Redfern Hollins will sing Death of Nelson, Dreaming all the day, Pilgrim of Love, &c. Mr. E. C. Dunbar will sing Selections from all the most refined effusions of the day, including Ten Minutes too late, Don't be after Ten, Harry Clifton. Inexplicably, the website gives the 'date of the event' as Tuesday November 23rd 1909. Fanny Edwards died in the US in 1908, of course. |
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07 Jul 10 - 06:08 AM (#2941101) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky I should have added that Mr. Julian Edwards was Pianist and Musical Director of the event. |
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07 Jul 10 - 06:12 AM (#2941102) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham Interesting, yes. The date would appear to be wrong. She emigrated to the US in the 1880s, we have the date somewhere above, so presumably it is dated before then. Clifton's songs certainly went through a revival in the 1880s. |
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07 Jul 10 - 12:32 PM (#2941237) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky CORN EXCHANGE, PRESTON Thursday and Friday, January 13th and 14th Mr Harry Clifton "will select eight of the following comic and chorus songs:- Comical Concert, Wedding of Biddy M'Grane, Shabby Genteel, Put the break on, Wait for the turn of the tide, The adventures of Robinson Crusoe (new comic extravaganza), Musical miseries, Ten minutes too late, Rip von Groggenheim &c. &c. and will, in conjunction with Miss Fanny Edwards, appear in two comic burlesque medley duets entitled Cupid in the kitchen and The style of the period, introducing parodies on the most popular songs of the day." Preston Guardian, Jan 8 1870 Rip von who??? The only Google entry I can find is that it was sung in New Zealand some 5 years later. I actually sang on the stage of the Corn Exchange when I was a lad of 10 or 11. The bulldozers moved in during the 1970's to make way for a new road. Just the entrance foyer (now a pub) remains. Ah, me. |
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09 Jul 10 - 05:37 AM (#2942235) Subject: The Adventures of Robinson Crusoe From: Artful Codger New thread for "The Adventures of Robinson Crusoe", a "comic medley extravaganza" with lyrics by Harry Clifton set to a number of popular tunes: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=130676 Lyrics posted; ABCs and MIDIs to follow. In that thread, I'll also provide information on the works Clifton used, as well as lyrics and full tunes, when I've been able to obtain them. |
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09 Aug 10 - 07:06 AM (#2961019) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,Chris` Does anybody have the lyrics to As Welcome As The flowers in MAY? Regards |
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09 Aug 10 - 07:30 AM (#2961030) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky Chris - a version was collected by Alfred Williams. |
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09 Aug 10 - 01:48 PM (#2961260) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Artful Codger You may find a broadside version (probably closer to Clifton's original song) at The Bodleian Library ballads site. Clifton's song begins, "I live at the mill, at the foot of the hill / Where the streams run rippling by." The Clifton lyrics were also quoted in Gem of the West and Soldiers' Friend, Volume 7 (1873, p. 128). A plain-text OCR'd view is available. If you have a tune for this, we'd appreciate getting hold of it. If you have a MIDI, send a PM to Joe Offer to arrange a transfer. If you have notated music or a sound file, PM me and I can help with a transcription to ABC/MIDI. [There is also a song titled "You're Welcome as the Flowers in May" which was written by Dan J. Sullivan: "Last night I dreamed a sweet, sweet dream..." Entirely different beast.] |
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21 Aug 10 - 01:24 AM (#2969853) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Jim Dixon I posted the lyrics to AS WELCOME AS THE FLOWERS IN MAY, written by Harry Clifton, in the thread Lyr Req: songs in the play 'Love on the Dole' |
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24 Aug 10 - 09:46 AM (#2971737) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky HENRY ROBERT CLIFTON 22 January (1873) Administration (with the Will and Codicil) of the effects of Henry Robert Clifton, late of 26 St. Stephen's-road, Shepherd's Bush, in the County of Middlesex, Public Singer, who died 15 July 1872 at 26 St. Stephen's-road, was granted at the Principal Registry to Frances Wright Edwards of 26 St. Stephen's-road, Spinster, the Universal Legatee, for Life. Effects under £6,000. (My punctuation). Looks like Fanny won the 'battle of wills'. |
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07 Nov 12 - 12:53 PM (#3432517) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST Henry "Harry" Clifton, singer and songwriter was my paternal great grandfather. If you care to contact me sometime, I can tell you the names of his children. |
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07 Nov 12 - 02:32 PM (#3432576) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: Steve Gardham GUEST, Thanks for your offer. If you look back at the 2008 postings on this thread you will see messages from 4 others of Harry's descendants. Carole Wallis Robert P Mark Turner K Ball. It would be great to see a wewbsite devoted to Harry's life and songs. |
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23 May 14 - 02:57 PM (#3627854) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST,GUEST Betty M. J. Hello! Does anybody happen to have or know where I could find sheet music or music on a video or CD of Harry Clifton's song Where There's A Will? I did find lyrics on this website and a snipbit of the song(under a name of MIDI) but I'd like to hear or have the music to play the whole song (as I can play a wee bit of piano). Please reply to this message or email sospower@outlook.com! |
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27 May 14 - 08:07 AM (#3628504) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: MartinRyan Refresh |
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27 May 14 - 10:29 AM (#3628531) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Sminky This site has the dots for some of Harry's songs (type 'Harry Clifton' in the search box). |
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27 May 14 - 11:59 AM (#3628554) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter From: GUEST, Betty M.J. Sminky, thank you for the suggestion. I did look at that website and they do have some of Harry's songs (and I will use it when I need sheet music for his other songs) but sadly they do not carry "Where There's A Will" anymore. Thank you so much though! If anybody knows where to find or if you have the sheet music online (or know where I can hear a video of the song's tune) please, please do not hesitate to respond to this thread. Thank you. |
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20 Feb 17 - 01:42 PM (#3840202) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter (1832-1872) From: GUEST,Jolly Hello, I would be delighted if anyone could give me information about Mr William Halliday, who wrote the music for Mr Harry Clifton's song "Awfully Jolly". He may be the same William Halliday who was the pianist in Mr Harry Clifton's Concert Company - Jan 10 1869. I would like to know if this William Halliday is the same person as my great-grandfather William Halliday (1842-1878) who was a music shop keeper and piano maker on Whitechapel Road in the East End of London. One of his sons went into Music Hall, so I think it is possible. See Sminky's post of 14 May 10 - 09:23 AM Many thanks |
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26 Jul 17 - 04:51 PM (#3868447) Subject: RE: Help: Harry Clifton Songwriter (1832-1872) From: Steve Gardham Have just acquired further HC songs including 4 ones I haven't already got sheet music to. Never Look Behind Percy St. Barbe My Matilda Jane or, Married on Michaelmas Day I'm Number One. The third one mentions all the girls in the other songs who rejected him. The book is Harry Clifton's Book of Comic and Motto Songs, published by Ascherberg, Hopwood & Crew. It has 16 songs in it, but 12 are already dealt with above. It's serial number is H&C 1862. I'd guess about 1885. |