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12 Sep 02 - 09:40 AM (#781986) Subject: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: wilco Mudcat has been a tremendous resource for me, and "THANKS!!!" to everyone. I'm refining my school program, and I'm looking for good historical songs about Native Americans. I like songs that kids could relate to, like: family life, pets, childrens' games, etc. Soemthing that would say that "Ntive American kids were just like you." Also, good songd for adults too. I'm part Native American. Wilco in Tennessee |
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12 Sep 02 - 11:43 AM (#782113) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST,Foe A wonderful CD is "Kids' Pow-Wow Songs" by the Black Lodge Singers. They're a Pow-Wow drum group that travels the circuit and have written these songs to get kids dancing at Pow-Wows. example:
Mickey Mouse, Minnie and Pluto too another:
The Flintstones and the Rubbles too Just put the cd title in the search at Amazon.com |
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20 Sep 02 - 04:33 PM (#788294) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: MAG Under the Green Corn Moon is a CD of lullabies from various Native American traditions. It includes info about each of the singers. More suggestions may be on the Oyate website. Should pop up on a web search. |
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20 Sep 02 - 05:55 PM (#788316) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST Your library may have Natalie Curtis, "The Indians' Book," (1924), reprinted 1987 by Bonanza, with over 200 songs, from cradle songs to war, many with music, in original language as well as translations. Excellent, authentic, no Barney or Disney stuff. |
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20 Sep 02 - 07:15 PM (#788335) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: katlaughing If you cannot find a copy of the Curtis book, I have one and have scanned some of the songs to email to others a couple of times. Could also make a midi if you don't read the dots. We're going to a fairly major pow wow this weekend. If I see any tapes or music books, I'll be sure to take a look. kat |
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18 Oct 03 - 02:54 PM (#1037774) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST,Old Joe Clark |
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21 May 04 - 03:53 PM (#1190997) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST,evyjo@yahoo.com I like how you guys do this type of stuff |
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21 May 04 - 04:41 PM (#1191024) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: Q (Frank Staplin) Recently reprinted at Univ. Arizona Press, paperback: Frank Hamilton Cushing, "Zuñi Folk Tales," 474 pp. The tales are written in a form that is easily read aloud to an audience (as these tales were meant to be). The author lived as a Zuñi for many years. None of the tales has been Disneyfied or otherwise distorted. They were collected before 1900, and have not been contaminated by our culture's re-interpretations.Some remind of Aesop, e. g. The Coyote and the Ravens, How the Turtle Duped the Coyote, etc. Not many songs, but here is one, from "The Boy Hunter Who Never Sacrificed to the Deer He Had Slain: or the Origin of the Society of Rattlesnakes." A Call for the People to Gather- Ye, our children, listen! Ye I will this day inform, Our child, our father, He of the strong hand, He who hunts the Deer Goes into the Sunset world, Goes, our Sun-father to greet; Gather at the sacred houses, Bring thy prayer-sticks, twines and feathers, And prepare for him,- For the Sun-father, For the Moon-mother, For the Great Ocean, For the prey-beings, plumes and treasures. Hasten, hasten, ye our children, in the morning! One story, which my kids loved, was "How the Rattlesnakes came to be what they are." It starts out, "Know you that long ago there lived at Yathpew'nan, as live there now, many Rattlesnakes; but then they were men and women, only of a Rattlesnake kind." The stories were collected before 1900, when the Zuñi People were little comtaminated by modern life. |
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21 May 04 - 04:49 PM (#1191033) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: Stilly River Sage Take a look at a native site called Oyate at http://www.oyate.org/. They started out with books but have film and music recordings listed in their catalog also. I took at look at Kids Pow Wow Songs. Those are not your usual kiddie Barney or Mighty Mouse songs, by any means. The Black Lodge Singers have released quite a few CDs over the years. Amazon has some samples, you would do well to listen to them. GUEST,Foe would have done readers a favor by expanding on his/her recommendation. These songs are fine examples of Indian appropriation of mainstream material. SRS |
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21 May 04 - 05:18 PM (#1191059) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: Stilly River Sage I think there must be a mistake by the publisher or perhaps at Amazon, but there isn't a ~ in the tribal name Zuni ("Zuñi" in the Cushing title listed above). To have collected stories that long ago doesn't guarantee "purity," and "contamination" is a relative term. If you take a look at Amazon, for example, you'll find a book of cartoons by a Zuni artist, a response to Cushing's presence in their community and his resulting written works. From the page for A Zuni Artist Looks at Frank Hamilton Cushing: Cartoons by Phil Hughte
In 1994 Zuni artist Phil Hughte retells the story of Cushing through cartoons both humorous and acerbic. Joined by Cushing's own words, Phil's drawings add the uniquely Zuni voice to a reflection of one man's life. A reader review a little later on notes: "Hughte uniquely portrays Cushing in many ways; one way he is disturbing the Zuni clowns, and another way he protects their land from U.S. troops. He is an outsider, a Bow Priest, an ethnographer, and a clown, representing a trickster figure in the Zuni society. This is the very reason why Cushing appears human and does not appear as the target of satire or caricture." Cultures change, so while historic material is certainly interesting, to try to maintain a culture at some sort of "pre-contact" level is to turn the whole tribe into museum artifacts. Tracing the changes, particularly when they are voluntary, can be very interesting. Indians have fought for a long time to 1) have the word "plight" removed from any sentences describing them and 2) be a part of the modern world today with living cultures that reflect the changing world around them. I suggest obtaining a mix of music that includes the (possible) solemnity of the historic songs and a good laugh at the modern interpretations of popular culture jingles. SRS |
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21 May 04 - 06:33 PM (#1191093) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: Q (Frank Staplin) SRS is correct that the Zuni do not spell the name with the tilde. It is used on the title and in all of the introductory material to the book as published by The University of Arizona Press. When I lived in New Mexico, I do not remember seeing the ñ but on a recent visit I saw it placed on their work by some artists. They may have copied it from recent books and tourist material, thinking the pale people know best. When I visited Zuni two years ago, I saw Cushing's book in the home of one artist I visited. He said a number of the tales were still told. Most southwestern puebloans took delight in misleading investigators into their culture and religion, but among those that I have known, there is a willingness to share tales like those taken down by Cushing. Incidentally, Cushing was not a well man, and needed care by the Zuni. He was taken into one of the clans, and participated in some religious rites. He was only some 40 years old when he died. My objection to much of the native story-telling done by us is that it is influenced strongly by our own beliefs. Those interested in the cultures of these peoples should look beyond the current homogenation of beliefs, dances and dress among peoples of strongly different original cultures as seen at many modern "pow-wows." |
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22 May 04 - 11:56 AM (#1191502) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST,Julia Just a word of caution regarding "Native American" music.I have a friend, Laura, a flute player who has done a very complete study of Northeastern Wabanaki music seeking to preserve and honor it.Her husband,builds beautiful Native American flutes and they have published a "tutor" for those who wish to learn. She has looked at all the archives, listened to the wax cylinders etc.in an effort to be as authentic as possible.She is NOT a new age wannabe. Several years ago, she went to the Penobscot tribe, told them about her research, and asked for permission to record some of their music to help preserve it. They agreed and she produced a CD. Recently, there has been a change in "tribal policy", a new council has been formed for regulation of tribal culture and they have called her on the carpet for her recordings (for which they intitially gave permission). They claim that when the collectors came around in the early 20th century, the tribal people deliberately gave bogus information in order not to "lose" their music. They want her to destroy all her work as they say it is not "authentic". They also claim they have the right to restrict any but tribal members from using any of their cultural art forms. I would caution people to be very careful about using "Native American" music & dance in a public way. The Natives are restless Best- Julia |
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22 May 04 - 01:58 PM (#1191569) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: Stilly River Sage This confusion and turmoil you describe is found throughout Indian Country today in many cultural venues. It's unfortunate, and is largely a response to years of abuse by the dominant colonizing culture. I run into this regularly regarding American Indian literature and the discussion of what is important and who should or may write it. And if such restrictions are reasonable or fair and to whom they should apply. Living cultures grow and change, and they build on their pasts. Interpretation and reinterpretation are two separate and ongoing activities we see as groups attempt to contract into their elemental footprints culturally and territorially (this doesn't apply just in North America). The trouble is, there has been so much warfare, relocation, interference and intermarriage that searching for the Ur-Indian is not only impossible it's foolish. American Indians today are toting around as much baggage as your average colonial resident, plus they have what they remember from their Indian cultures. It is intermingled, first and foremost, in the language. The best hope for tribal solidarity is when groups come to terms with the past that can't be changed and work to reinforce what they know and move forward from here. How they go about it is why I referred to "interpretation and reinterpretation. I have seen two really distinct directions in the area of cultural and tribal reclamation. Land issues and culture issues. Though the cultures that are being reinforced from within grew in places (land), the relocation that has happened since colonization began have broken some of those connections.1 In the cultural issues, of music, literature, art, food, etc., you have participants who don't live on the tribal land any more, who were forcefully or voluntarily relocated. At this point in time over fifty percent of tribal peoples don't live on their tribal lands, they're in cities where they can find work. They have intermingled with other cultures, but they still retain vestigial (or much more) traditional material and memories. Family songs, stories, photos, writings, papers, etc. One major problem occurs when people start arguing entitlements or authenticity. In its most basic and open form, the idea that doing something the "Indian Way" could mean that it is the way anyone who happens to have Indian blood does a thing, whether it is cook a meal, sing a song, tell a story. That Indian person may have been raised on the reservation or in a large eastern city. Those two conditions (city or rez) alone can't tell you anything about the "authenticity" of the experience or training. Is a white child who grows up on a reservation "more Indian" than an Indian child who grows up in a largely-white city? Who can say without knowing what cultures these children are exposed to? Self-reporting is good enough for many tribes. But not all Indians look like what people think Indians should look like. What percentage blood (quantum) do they possess? Some tribes accept simple explanations and paperwork, others are very rigid in their requirements of who may belong formally to the tribe. Because of tribal sovereignty, there isn't one set of rules, there are hundreds. May full-blood Indians, who happen to be half one tribe and half another, can not be members of their home tribe because of this mix. Others are accepted in one or both. It varies from tribe to tribe. The fighting about this is intense and sometimes nasty. I have seen mainstream characterizations of the passion that modern tribes use to define themselves (some of the non-Indian politically conservative critics would say they're no longer Indian because they're modern and they've assimilated). Those who think of Ur-Indians as peaceful and childlike without the usual sophisticated passions of humans elsewhere in the world would say that the nasty European interference has taught Indians this behavior. I think both views are nonsense; while ways of thinking and philosophy change over the years--the ways people were thinking about things 500 years ago are different than the way they think about similar things today, because we know so many more and different things now. But Indians had wars and arguments and power struggles just as every other culture. The kind of restrictions that Julia (remember Julia?) posted about come when tribes try to weed out what they think is non-Indian in their attempts to confine their culture to themselves and to reinterpret the colonial interpretations of their cultures as gathered by anthropologists. It gets pretty dicey, as you can well imagine. Because when mixedblood Indians want to practice their religions or learn more about their Indian culture, the fullblood/mixedblood/wannabe accusations can come to the surface. My suggestion to your friend Laura is to hold onto everything she has. Don't destroy it, don't give it away. She has been trying to preserve a form and by doing so helps keep it alive. Have her get in touch with Joseph Bruchac (his web page is at http://www.josephbruchac.com/). He has been researching and publishing about northeastern tribes (he is also Penobscot) for years. He may have some useful advice. The politics of tribal councils are often such that they stifle good work and research, especially if hardliners are elected. She might want to consider expanding her research into the larger area, in a pan-Indian approach even though she is continuing to make distinctions regarding tribal musical practice. The bottom line for the cultural arts in ANY culture is that if they aren't practiced and shared, if they don't continue to grow, then they are dead. If you're not an Indian and you're learning and sharing Indian music and make it clear that you're not an Indian, that is the best you can do. But to suggest that she may not use, sell, perform, or research within this framework is insupportable. The situations that I find disturbing are when non-Indians try to fake it by claiming tribal connections they aren't entitled to. It's as if their own hard work isn't enough, they have to claim that this is somehow in their blood. A couple of examples. Ruth Beebe Hill and her novel Hanta Yo. She wrote an original story about Indians, then (her story goes) had it translated into that Indian language and then BACK into English for publication, as if such an act was going to add Indian cultural baggage to make her white woman's romance story an Indian story. And the scholar Jimake Highwater who published a great deal, and probably was accurate in his research, but cast it all into question when he, a man of Greek ancestry, tried to add authenticity by claiming over the years several tribal affiliations. This kind of antic simply neutralizes any good these two thought they might be doing. And they caused a backlash that makes it difficult for other non-Indian scholars to study Indian arts. No one is going to tell an Indian student "you can't study and write about John Steinbeck or Jane Austen, because they're not of your culture." So the reverse also must be true--you can't restrict the study of Indian issues just because a scholar is non-Indian. There are many non-Indians who are well received in the field, though there are others who try too hard and are always viewed on the fringes by both Indians and white scholars alike. It's all in how you approach your topic, and in how you conduct yourself. It sounds like Laura has done nothing wrong, and probably needs to wait out this particular tribal administration. This went long, but Julia logged on as a guest, so there was no way to send this backchannel. [disclaimer: I'm not Indian. My scholarship in graduate school focused on American Indian literature.] SRS 1 Although we can regret the fact that tribes were moved involuntarily from the land they were living on at the time colonizers arrived, one must not presume that these locations as tribal lands were set it stone. Tribes were moving and changing constantly. Some were agrarian and built durable communities of structures, others hunted and traveled within regions and transported good and dwellings, but evidence exists throughout North America of the migrations of most all tribes; their origin stories tell of this. For example, the Navajo are a large established tribe in the Four Corners region, but they are relative newcomers to the area. Their Athabascan language is tied to people who live in the southern part of Western Canada. I'm haven't pulled out a book to confirm this, but I believe they arrived between 600-800 years ago. The Navajo migration may well have to do with the "disappearance" of the Hohokam. The Choctaw creation story describes a long trip to reach Nanih Waiya where a great mound was built and the bones of their ancestors, brought along on the journey, were buried. |
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22 May 04 - 04:32 PM (#1191664) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST,Julia Many thanks to Stilly River Sage for "sage" advice and insight Cheers- Julia |
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22 May 04 - 05:31 PM (#1191698) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: Stilly River Sage Pardon the typos (so much for spell check, if the typo comes out some other correctly spelled word)! |
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23 May 04 - 06:07 PM (#1192239) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Native American Folk Songs for kids From: GUEST,julia Just to follow up my comments. My friend Laura has asked me to be clear that she and her husband are working at a creating a solution that is workable for everyone and respects all sides of the issue.She says "We want to build stronger bridges, not burn the ones that are in place. It is truly our desire to work WITH Native peoples and not to have immediate backlash responses." There are valid reasons why the tribes are careful about sharing their traditions and personally, I feel that the Disney/ Pow-wow faction is one of them. Many of these songs and dances have levels of meaning that go way beyond our comprehension. Again, it very important to treat this material woith care and respect. Best- Julia |