Lyr Req: Men of the West

04 Oct 02 - 02:30 PM (#796963)
Subject: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Allan S

Meed the words of an old Irish song Tune of Acres of Clams-Rosin the beau.
The only words I remember are

"When Ireland lay dying and bleeding they called for the boys of the west"
"Hurah for the galant old west boys-----The bravest and best"

Possible the Clancy Brothers?

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04 Oct 02 - 03:04 PM (#796988)
Subject: Boys of the West/Men of the West
From: Brían

Try this:

MEN OF THE WEST

It's in the DT

Brían

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04 Oct 02 - 03:07 PM (#796989)
Subject: RE: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: David Ingerson

I'm at work now and don't have access to my library but it sounds like it might be the Boys of Kilmichael. If it is, I have the words--at least of the version I collected in West Cork--but I won't be able to get them to you until Monday. I'll be at a folk music retreat all weekend. If someone else hasn't gotten them to you by then, I will.

Slan,

David

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04 Oct 02 - 03:13 PM (#796995)
Subject: RE: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: David Ingerson

Oops! Looks like Brian aced it. The Boys of Kilmichael has the same aire and is similar, so much so that it must be a knock-off of the earlier song. It's about the Tans in west Cork.

David

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04 Oct 02 - 03:53 PM (#797016)
Subject: RE: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

The Men of the West, written by William Rooney (1873-1901). He was a personal friend and political ally of Arthur Griffith.

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04 Oct 02 - 05:03 PM (#797054)
Subject: RE: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: The Pooka

Allan S, "The Men of the West" was indeed *done* by The Clancy Bros. & T. Makem; but then, what wasn't? (Actually, now that I think of it, maybe "The Boys of Kilmichael" wasn't. ??)

--Fear not the might of the Foe,
    T. Pookem

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07 Oct 02 - 05:21 AM (#798154)
Subject: RE: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Hrothgar

Tune "Rosin the Beau?"

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07 Oct 02 - 06:02 AM (#798168)
Subject: RE: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

The tune was also used by Brian O'Higgins for his song "Cumann na mBan" (the organisation of women [of the Irish Volunteers/IRA]). He described the air as "Eoghan Coir". Anyone know this one? And what it means?

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07 Oct 02 - 07:39 AM (#798207)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

From the Oxford Companion to Irish Literature - "Riocard Bairead Richard Barret - The Bard of Mayo (?1740-1819) born in Barrack, Erris Co. Mayo. A teacher and small farmer. Eoghan Coir written in 1788".

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07 Oct 02 - 11:13 AM (#798317)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

The Oxford Companion to Irish Literature? This I gota get! I'll see if I can find anything else about this song.

Brían

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07 Oct 02 - 04:41 PM (#798470)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

It's one marvellous book; edited by Robert Welch, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1996, ISBN 0 19 866158 4. Will post words of Cumann na mBan later.

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07 Oct 02 - 07:28 PM (#798517)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

Thanks, Big Tim. I don't see anything in the usual collections about this song. I asked my Irish language teacher about this song as she was familiar with the author, but she is not aware of this song.

Brían

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07 Oct 02 - 08:32 PM (#798545)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: maire-aine

The lyrics to Cumann na mBan are in a thread from a couple weeks ago. It was in "feminist perspective on folksongs Pt2"; if you set the time period to 14 days and hit refresh and put 'femin' in the filter, you'll find the thread. I promise to learn how to do the link before I do this again. Sorry.

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07 Oct 02 - 08:35 PM (#798549)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: maire-aine

I hope this works so I don't embarrass myself. Link to thread

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08 Oct 02 - 03:37 AM (#798724)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE SOLDIERS OF CUMANN NA MBAN
From: Big Tim

Yes Maire-Aine it worked! Thanks cos these are interesting lyrics, quite different from the ones I have, given by Brian O'Higgins himself.

All honour to Oglaigh na hEireann!
All praise to the men of our race,
Who in days of betrayal and slavery,
Saved Ireland from ruin and disgrace,
But do not forget in your praising,
Of them and the deeds they have done,
Their loyal and true hearted comrades,
The soldiers of Cumann na mBan

CHORUS:
They stand for the honour of Ireland,
As their sisters in days that are gone,
And they'll march with their brothers to freedom,
The soldiers of Cumann na mBan

No great-hearted daughter of Ireland,
Who died for her sake long ago,
Who stood in the red gap of danger,
Defying the Sasanach foe,
Was ever more valiant or worthy,
Of glory in high-sounding rann[verse?],
Than the comrades of Oglaigh na hEireann,
The soldiers of Cumann na mBan

O, high beats the heart of our Mother,
The day she has longed for is nigh,
When the sunlight of joy and of freedom,
Shall glow in the eastern sky,
And none shall be honoured more proudly,
That morning by chieftain and clann,
Than the daughters who served her in danger,
The soldiers of Cumann na mBan.

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08 Oct 02 - 08:29 AM (#798832)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

Here's a little more on Cumann na mBan.

Brían

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08 Oct 02 - 09:59 AM (#798879)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

A few more related points:-
1. "Barrett, Baroid in Munster, Bairead in Connacht, these families came with the Anglo-Norman invasion and became completely hibernicized". (McLysaght - Surnames of Ireland).

2 Eoghan Coir: "a vicious mock lament on a bailiff" - Oxford Companion.

3. "In the 18th century Richard Barrett (c1740-1818), the 'Poet of Erris' was a prominent United Irishman" - MacLysaght- Irish Families.

4. "Brian O'Higgins [composer of the song 'Cumann an mBan'](1882-1949) born Kilscyre, Co. Meath was TD for Clare (1922)" - Oxford Companion. He was president of Sinn fein in 1930s. His best known songs include "Moses Ritoolarilay" [a satire on the ban on using the Irish form of shop names- recorded by Margaret Barry], "Soldiers of '22", "Maurice O'Neill [IRA man executed by Free State]", "O Donovan Rossa", "The Irish Volunteers", "Victoria [a threat to demolish an Irish statue of Queen Victoria - recorded by Grehan Sisters]", "Bonfire on the Border", "The Boy from Tralee [Charlie Kerins - IRA man executed by Free State]". 107 of his songs were published by him, with intros, in the Wolfe Tone Annual 1950".

5. "In April 1914 the first meeting to start Cumann na mBan was held in Wynn's Hotel, Abbey Street, Dublin. Miss Agnes O'Farrelly was in the chair. Among those present were Mrs Wyse Power, Madame O'Rahilly, Mrs Eamonn Ceannt, Mrs John [Eoin] MacNeill, Mrs Kettle, Miss Lily O'Brennan, Mrs Dudley Edwards, Miss Louise Gavan Duffy, Miss Carney, from the north [James Connolly's secretary in 1916?], another lady from the north whose name I have forgotten, and myself."
Kathleen Clarke [Tom Clarke's widow] - Revolutionary Woman: My Fight for Ireland's Freedom,O'Brien Press, Dublin, 1991. Very interesting, first hand account of 1916 and related matters -BT.

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08 Oct 02 - 11:16 AM (#798924)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

That's excellent, Big Tim. I never new O'Higgins Wrote MOSES RI-TOO-RA-LI-AY. I continue to be tantilized by EOGHAN CÓIR. I haven't found anything yet.

Brían

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08 Oct 02 - 11:53 AM (#798947)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Brian O'Higgins also wrote A Stor mo chroi , which has been very popular in recent years.

Regards

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08 Oct 02 - 12:31 PM (#798974)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

Yes Martin, Brian mentioned that above. Is it the same Brian O'Higgins? It's just my opinion but, I'd say that "A Stor Mo Chroi" (forgive non-Irish print style) is of vastly superior quality to any of the songs quoted by me. Mind you Brian O'Higgins was fluent in Irish.

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08 Oct 02 - 12:59 PM (#798994)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Tim

Apologies - my varifocals must be vari-ing more than usual! I agree its one of his better ones.

Regards

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08 Oct 02 - 02:29 PM (#799031)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: MartinRyan

In an attempt to make up for the above gaffe...... Eoghain Coir is listed in PW Joyce and in some of the early 20 C. books (Walsh/Breathnach, O'Sullivan etc. )I'll do some digging when I get a chance.

Regards

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08 Oct 02 - 02:45 PM (#799042)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: MartinRyan

OK. I have it - in O'Sullivan's SOngs of the Irish . It is, as mentioned above, a satirical lament for a late 18 C. Irish landlord. The title "Honest John", basically, is ironic. O'Sullivan's book not only gives the original Irish, but also a singable version in English by Francis A. Fahy (author of the other Galway Bay, among aother things).

I'll transcribe either or both as a penance for my sins....

Regards

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08 Oct 02 - 03:24 PM (#799064)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Big Tim

Thanks Martin, look forward to seeing the song, really envy you having those books you mentioned!

Re "A Stor Mo Chroi": I'm still confused. Was it written by BOH and if so was this the same BOH who wrote all the political songs that I mentioned?

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08 Oct 02 - 04:17 PM (#799090)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: MartinRyan

Tim
Yes

Regards

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08 Oct 02 - 07:34 PM (#799181)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

Thanks, Martin. Both if you can.

Brían

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08 Oct 02 - 11:09 PM (#799267)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

I found a version of EOGHAN CÓIR sung by a Mícheál Ó Seighin on the CD Glór Mhaigh Eo. It definitley is sung to THE MEN OF THE WEST. It is the Gaeilge version. I could post te lyrics later and a rough translation if anyone is interested. BTW, the thread titled SONG OF THE DAWN features another Brian O'Higgins song.

Brían   

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09 Oct 02 - 11:48 AM (#799522)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: Brían

I tried to post the Irish language version earlier, but accidentally deleted my post. I'll try to post it later.

Brían

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10 Oct 02 - 05:13 AM (#800179)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

I've started a fresh thread for Eoghain Coir/Owen Coir.

Click Here


Regards

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10 Oct 02 - 05:42 AM (#800192)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish rebel song -the boys of the west
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

By way of thread-creep:

I once had a manuscript of a song called "The Help and the Aid of Japan" which was a satirical song written at a stage of the First World War when there was an attempt to enlist Japan as an ally against Germany. Although no tune was listed, it seemed obvious that it had been intended for the Eoghain Coir/Men of the West air.

The chorus was something like:

With the help and the aid of Japan
We'll accomplish the freedom of Man
We'll carry on yet, till to (a) frazzle we're beat
With the help and the aid of Japan!

Regards

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