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16 Oct 02 - 07:54 AM (#804276) Subject: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Justa Picker Joni Mitchell 'Ashamed' to Be in Music Business Mon Oct 14, 7:52 PM ET LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Hell hath no fury like Joni Mitchell on the subject of the music industry. The veteran singer/songwriter, on the promotional trail for a new album, says she is "ashamed" to be part of the music business and may stop recording. "I just think it's a cesspool," the 58-year-old folk-rock icon said in the latest issue of Rolling Stone magazine. "I hope it all goes down the crapper. I would never take another deal in the record business, which means I may not record again, or I have to figure out a way to sell over the Net or do something else. But I'll be damned if I'll line their pockets." Oddly, Mitchell just signed a new deal with Nonesuch Records, which will release her new album, "Travelogue" in November. Mitchell was previously based at Reprise Records where her last few albums sold poorly but won several Grammy Awards. Both labels are units of AOL Time Warner Inc . Mitchell also lambasted MTV, complaining that her three-year-old granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the video clips played on the music cable network. "It's tragic what MTV has done to the world," opined Mitchell, who was voted the fifth greatest woman in rock 'n' roll by MTV's sister channel VH1. Both networks are owned by Viacom Inc . Once described by her friend David Crosby as being "about as humble as Mussolini," Mitchell has previously described contemporary music as "appallingly sick ... boring chord movement and bad acting." In holding up Bob Dylan and herself as the standard for songwriting, she has written off devotees like Sting, Alanis Morissette and Sheryl Crow. Mitchell has also previously savaged her former label boss David Geffen for not paying her any royalties, although he has countered that her albums never sold enough copies to cover the advance payments that she received from him. Born Roberta Joan Anderson in Canada, Mitchell has established herself as one of the most respected artists of her generation. Her eclectic career spans 35 years and includes such seminal albums as 1971's autobiographical "Blue" and the 1974 jazz-pop excursion "Court and Spark." She was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1997. |
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16 Oct 02 - 07:58 AM (#804279) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: InOBU Ah the greats are seldom understood... hang in there Joni where ever you are! Maybe she will sell through MdCt. Cheers Larry |
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16 Oct 02 - 08:10 AM (#804287) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST She should contact Ani DiFranco .... Mitchell sounds like she would fit right in on the Righteous Babe label. |
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16 Oct 02 - 03:10 PM (#804691) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: John MacKenzie She can do no wrong in my book; GO JONI!!! Failte.....Giok |
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16 Oct 02 - 03:24 PM (#804705) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Little Hawk Right on, Joni! I couldn't agree more. MTV has done immeasurable damage to the public's comprehension of good music (to say nothing of good lyrics), and the music business is so sick and deranged that it does not deserve to go on existing. Real songwriters are out there, but corporate music is not interested in marketing anything real. TV kills every beautiful thing it touches, and you know why? Because it is controlled by commercial advertisers who couldn't care less what destruction they wreck upon culture and humanity, in the process of selling their phony junk. - LH |
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16 Oct 02 - 03:40 PM (#804726) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST,Taliesn Well what can i say , but thanks for the heads-up on the Rolling Stone article as I've stopped paying any attention to anything between the pages of that pop rag in the early 80's because it can only be as good as the music & personalities of the time and since those commodities went into such short supply so too the content of the mag. That said i'm thrilled to hear that Lady Joni is getting more "flinty" as well as outspoken in her commentary and artistic outrage. Haven't read a good "Apocrypha" screed from a bonafied master talent since Pat Metheny savaged the milk-toasty Jazz-lite Kenny G. So glad to read that Lady Joni has a sprocket or two she's willing to pop out loud in public . Give 'em hell Joni and do not go gentle in that good night. |
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16 Oct 02 - 06:50 PM (#804877) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST,harvey andrews Well put, little hawk |
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16 Oct 02 - 07:58 PM (#804932) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST Ah, so she tells it like it is in Rolling Stone, the print equivalent of MTV? In case none of you has noticed, the cover of Rolling Stone is now most often adorned by scantily clad lily white actresses and pop divas, like Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Anniston. Sure, I'll respect Joni's opinions--just as soon as she starts respecting herself enough to stay the hell out of one of the most misogynist pop music print journals on the planet. And BTW, Sting can write song circles around Joni (who I still love) any day. But I most certainly agree that Sheryl Crow is talentless. |
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16 Oct 02 - 08:49 PM (#804969) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Steve Latimer Amen Joni. |
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16 Oct 02 - 09:06 PM (#804981) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Desert Dancer It was a Reuters news agency article - it also appeared in Tucson's Arizona Daily Star - so she didn't really fall for Rolling Stone, even if it appeared there. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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16 Oct 02 - 10:21 PM (#805011) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Little Hawk Actually, I believe Joni refused for decades to have anything to do with Rolling Stone, because some smart aleck writer there referred to her as the "Queen of El Lay" (it was an intentional misspelling on his part) one time in the early 70's, so I believe she shares GUEST's low opinion of Rolling Stone. So do I. And yes, Sting is a very good songwriter. - LH |
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16 Oct 02 - 10:45 PM (#805022) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST,Taliesn (quote) "And BTW, Sting can write song circles around Joni (who I still love) any day." Hardly "any day". Sting can crank out a clinker just easily; probably more so since he is much closer to playing with "commercial sales" demands. I thought his gratuitous "Jaguar" advert was pretty piss-poor as far as artistic integrity goes and the song was lyrically found wanting. It was also a pure Pop-play for the Mid-east audience as blatant as la Madonna's pretenses to the "fertile crescent" Pop-market. Sting was also commercially "shameless" to allow the truly talentless Sean , formerly-known-as-"Puff Daddy, Coombs use his song "Ever breath you take" for what amounted to some ridiculous "minstral" number , complete with mock all afro-American white robed gospel choir, commemorating the murdered ex-heroin-dealer-turned-Rapster *property* ( I just can't bring myself to use the term "talent" ) Biggy Smalls on one year's MTV music awards. Not only did Sting agree to allow the sample-meister to alter his lyrics to eulogize this west ocast gangstah-assinated *property* , but he actually appeared on stage to sing it. If that ain't a big fat industry-pandering ass-kiss then there ain't no such thing as artistic integrity so far as Sting is concerned. So ,yeah, Sting is still a talent worth listening to , but he can *whore* to *the industry* with the worst of 'em. Again ,so much for artistic integrity. Sorry to pop yer idol-bubble ,but if i didn't see it with my own eyes and audinly *wince* in embarassment for him, I wouldn't make the point. Carry on. |
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16 Oct 02 - 10:57 PM (#805032) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Steve Latimer I'm with Talisien on this one. Not for the reasons mentioned, but for the fact that Joni has been consistantly writing great, evolving matrial since the sixties. Sting has a lot of catching up to do. |
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16 Oct 02 - 11:08 PM (#805046) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Little Hawk There will always be some great songwriters around (whether or not they get commercial exposure). The main point of this thread...I think...is that the music business itself is corrupt and every bit as bad as Joni says it is, and that it has gotten steadily worse in the last few decades. I believe the main reason for that has been the influence of television on the music business, and the dominance of a few huge marketing empires in homogenizing and controlling the "product", as they so cynically call what was once considered an art form. - LH |
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16 Oct 02 - 11:54 PM (#805077) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST I believe Rolling Stone once named Joni "Old Lady of the Year." She did not appreciate this appellation. Which year it was I do not recall, but it was one filled with numerous tumultuous relationships, many of which she documented in song. |
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17 Oct 02 - 04:46 PM (#805596) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: John MacKenzie I would love to have been one of those relationships, been in love with that Joni lady for ever. Giok |
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17 Oct 02 - 04:47 PM (#805597) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST,Taliesn Ya know this piece has got me thinking that it's time for a real in-depth interview with Joni say by PBS' s Charlie Rose and let her really give a piece of her artistic mind outside the Pop-rag trade and tabloid. Charlie Rose just did an interview with gentleman James Taylor thois past Monday and it was a joy to share. For those intersted in atleast giving a listen you can tap into the Charlei Rose archive and listen to a digital recording of the entire interview which should be availible by next week. The archive link : http://www.charlierose.com/archives/archive.shtm |
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17 Oct 02 - 05:08 PM (#805611) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST I didn't say Sting was an artist of integrity. I said he could write song circles around Joni, which I believe to be true. He is, let us not forget, a bit younger than Ms Mitchell. His ability with a melody far surpasses Joni's, and he is, at this stage in life, catching up with her lyrically. IMNSHO. As is everyone elses, no? |
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17 Oct 02 - 10:50 PM (#805782) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST Sting has talent for sure,and has written some nice songs, but overall he pales in comparison to Joni's talent and impact on popular music. |
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17 Oct 02 - 11:31 PM (#805808) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Little Hawk For great melodies, look more to Joni's first 5 or 6 albums than the later stuff, I think. For truly great melodies look to Bob Dylan! (There. That oughta stir up some controversy...) Some other great songwriters: Willie Nelson, Van Morrison, Leonard Cohen, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Buffy Sainte-Marie, and Al Stewart. They are each the absolute best at one thing...their own particular unique style of song and performance. And that's the only definition of "best" that I really believe in. - LH |
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18 Oct 02 - 08:25 AM (#806013) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST,Taliesn (quote) "For great melodies, look more to Joni's first 5 or 6 albums than the later stuff, I think. I'd heartily agree with that. One of my still played favorites is her very first. Entire albums loose their musical sparkle afte her double-albumn "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter". Unfortunately the reckless 80's caught Joni off-guard and she floundered trying to find a voice ( "Dog eat Dog" album ) while Rickee Lee Jones kind of overshadowed Joni as she found her niche. Anyway, melody-wise Joni's early custom tunings and choice of progressions were , truth be told , far more artistically accomplished , sophisitcated even, than *anything* Bob Dylan has *ever* produced. This is musically speaking you understand. Dylan's true strength was always in his writing and Ia case can be made for the performances of his writing. My ear will still take to the Byrds version of "Mr. Tamborine Man" as readily as it was more taken by Crosby,Stills, Nash & Young's version of Joni's "Woodstock"..... that is *until* I saw her latest performance of "Woodstock" live; just her and a gentley flanged electric guitar. She now sings it with the aura of a sage of the ages and that voice in decline give her song the genuine gravitas it lacked when first penned in innocence. |
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18 Oct 02 - 10:09 AM (#806072) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST Can anyone post the article in question here? I'd love to read it, but don't know where to look to find it. |
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18 Oct 02 - 10:17 AM (#806078) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST Duh! I just went to Joni's website & there is a link to the Rolling Stone article there. Here it is folks: http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=1250 |
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18 Oct 02 - 11:58 AM (#806142) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: Little Hawk I agree, Joni's verson of Woodstock is the ultimate version of that song. To see that Dylan writes beautiful melodies, it is only necessary to hear a host of other fine singers singing them (assuming you can't hear the melody in Bob's voice...I can...and the people who cover him obviously can). I agree that Joni's tunings and arrangements are more sophisiticated than his. Al Stewart has also written some wonderfully sophisticated material of a very unique sort...both musically and lyrically. - LH |
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18 Oct 02 - 05:37 PM (#806387) Subject: RE: Interesting Joni Mitchell article From: GUEST,Taliesn (quote) "Al Stewart has also written some wonderfully sophisticated material of a very unique sort..." Ah yes, Al Stewart " Man,man, your time is sand, your ways are leaves upon the sea I am the eyes of Nostradamus, All your ways are known to me" I remember it well |