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29 Oct 02 - 07:34 PM (#814018) Subject: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST For those of you who are interested in learning about the more personal side of the Wellstones, there is a very special audio feed on Minnesota Public Radio here: http://news.mpr.org/features/200210/28_ap_memorialservice/ One of the people interviewed for this program is Sam Kaplan, the man who gave the eulogy at Paul & Sheila's private family funeral yesterday. The news began telling people around 5 PM local time that they should not come to Williams Arena, because the arena, and the overflow annexe, and the sidewalks and streets outside are all full. It is estimated there were 20,000-25,000 people at the site before the doors opened at 4:30 PM. The indoor capacity was 20,000. |
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29 Oct 02 - 07:56 PM (#814026) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Lepus Rex I was listening to the memorial service, but I can't stand this pop-gospel crap they're playing, so I'm taking a break. Great turn out, though. Glad I didn't try to make it down there. ---Lepus Rex |
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29 Oct 02 - 08:11 PM (#814036) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: raredance It's being televised on C-Span 2 |
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30 Oct 02 - 08:38 AM (#814312) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Here is the best review of the memorial I've come across in reading this morning's papers so far. Nick Coleman is a staff columnist for the St. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper. BTW, the Republicans are extrememly pissed. :) Posted on Wed, Oct. 30, 2002 NICK COLEMAN'S KNOWING MY PLACE: A Minnesota farewell with few precedents NICK COLEMAN Pioneer Press Columnist The doors to Williams Arena, jammed to the rafters, closed two hours before the ceremony began. But still they came, thousands upon thousands of mourners, walking in a procession that looked like God had given new orders to Noah: Bring 1,000 of every kind of Minnesotan. And so it came to pass. They came wearing jackets with the names of Indian reservations on them. They came in VFW caps and they came in traditional costumes from Africa and Asia. They came in union jackets and they came in wheel chairs. They came leaning on canes or carrying children bundled against the cold. They came and filled the old basketball barn to the rafters, spilling over into the women's sports pavilion, spilling out on the street, hugging, crying, laughing and applauding. Who ever had a better funeral? Tuesday night's memorial for Paul and Sheila Wellstone and those who went down with them Friday was a combination funeral, campaign rally and old-time religious revival that kept the faithful in their seats for five hours but served its purpose by turning tears into a foot-stomping reaffirmation of the cause of their fallen leader. As a demonstration of public grief — and as pure theater — I've never seen anything like it in Minnesota. And unless you are as old as Walter Mondale, you haven't, either. This was a raucous and rollicking people's farewell, an avalanche of grief and pride on the behalf of the countless thousands who, since Friday, had been waiting to let their hair down. Paul probably knew most of them by name. And he would have been proud of them last night. In line, inside the arena or on the streets, the people offered eulogies that came from the heart. "Tell the world that Paul could speak all languages," said Ida Uzong, a native of Cameroon and an adult protection worker for Ramsey County who was waiting in line. "With a handshake, with a smile, with a nod of the head, he knew how to speak every language. And Sheila was for all the women of the world. What our pain is, Sheila knew. What our joy is, she knew." Thirty-five thousand Minnesotans filed past Hubert H. Humphrey's casket when it lay in state in the Capitol in 1978. But Humphrey's death didn't have the emotional impact of last Friday's tragedy. Humphrey was 10 years past his peak (he had lost the 1968 presidential race), and he had returned to the Senate in the capacity of an elder statesman when he succumbed to cancer at age 66. Paul Wellstone was snatched from life in the midst of the fight of his political life. Last night's event was rawer, and deeper, than anything Minnesota has seen since 1936, when Floyd B. Olson, a governor beloved by the people but hated by the establishment, died of cancer at 44 while in the midst of another fiery grass-roots campaign for the Senate. More than 50,000 people attended Olson's funeral at the old Minneapolis Auditorium and, like Wellstone's memorial, the Olson funeral was an emotional catharsis. "When he went down," said Wisconsin's progressive governor, Philip LaFollette, who was the main speaker, "he went down as when a lordly cedar goes down … with a great shout upon the hills and leaves a lonesome place against the sky." Last night, it was Iowa's Tom Harkin who gave the thundering eulogy. "He may have had a bad back, but he had a spine of steel!" Harkin said of his friend as the rafters rocked above him. There were giants in the earth in the old days. But whoever thought we'd see the day again, in Minnesota, when it would feel as if a great tree has fallen and left a lonely place against the sky. "If it was any other politician who died, they would have the funeral at the Cathedral or the Basilica and they'd say, 'Oh, look, it's almost full,'" said Tom Johnson, a former Hennepin County attorney who was looking for a seat about an hour before the memorial was scheduled to begin. "Paul fired up people — on both sides. That's what made his elections close, too." And it's what made him loved. "Most politicians are self-serving and egotistic," said a Nigerian immigrant, Oju Olagbaju, who is a graduate student at Hamline University. He came with his Minnesota-born wife, Shana, and the couple's 6-week-old daughter. "Paul Wellstone means so much to Minnesota. For me, an immigrant, he was one of the most sympathetic and listening persons. He was a humanist, more than a politician." On the south side of the arena, a family of Tibetans who had come an hour early but found themselves locked out, couldn't hide their disappointment. They had wanted so much to get inside to honor Wellstone. They had met him once, to tell him of Tibet's struggle against Chinese occupation, but said they couldn't take credit for his support of their cause. "That was there, in him already," said Wangyal Ritzekura. "He was a champion of the causes of suffering people. This is a huge loss not only for Minnesota and not only for the American people but for all those people who are fighting for human rights in their countries. His voice was very loud in the world." It was a voice that was loud and it was a voice that — whatever you thought about last night's noisy send-off — thousands of people demonstrated that they are determined will still be heard. "Nobody better talk bad about Paul Wellstone, not in front of me," said Opal Petersen, 79, of Stillwater, who is active in several veterans organizations and was part of the honor guard last night. "Paul was doing the Lord's work here on Earth, him and Sheila. The Lord's work." The Lord has him, now, Opal. The last time I felt the way I did last night was in June 1968, when they were burying Bobby Kennedy. "My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life," Ted Kennedy said at Bobby's funeral. "He should be remembered simply as a good and decent man who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it." I believe that, last night, they said the same thing about Paul Wellstone. |
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30 Oct 02 - 12:03 PM (#814476) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing Thank you..can't see for the tears |
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30 Oct 02 - 01:08 PM (#814527) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Apparently the most thin-skinned politician on the planet--Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, is SO pissed that he wasn't enthusiastically received by the crowd last night, and at Rick Kahn's speech, that he and his wife WALKED OUT on the memorial service. Yes folks, our esteemed governor walked out in a huff when things got "political". Today, The Body announced on a local radio station that he was so furious at the Wellstone camp, that he would appoint a non-Democrat to serve the interim period in the Senate. That's the spirit of thin-skinned spite and revenge to which we have become accustomed with Minnesota's governor, of course. And the Republicans are not only screaming "foul" and demanding "equal time" (for a memorial service?) because the Wellstones had the audacity to hold a memorial which actually dared to honor the spirit of their father's legacy, rather than kowtow to the political sensibilities of their father's political foes. Everyone I've talked with really felt the memorial did the job. Allowed us to be fierce in our grief, try and pick up the pieces and soldier on, and get a sense of closure doing it. Just what we needed. I felt a lot better after it was over, which is just what a memorial is supposed to do for the living. And so it goes here in Minnesota today folks. |
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30 Oct 02 - 01:13 PM (#814532) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly you booed Trent Lott? at a memorial holy shit |
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30 Oct 02 - 03:19 PM (#814668) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST ventura walked out on kahn because it was no longer a memorial service it turned into a campaign rally ...... made me wanna puke! wellstone memeorial service was hijacked by a bunch of no concience liberals |
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30 Oct 02 - 05:17 PM (#814723) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Actually, I didn't boo anyone, and nor did probably 19,975 of the people in the arena. The booing was done by a very, very small handful of people who certainly weren't on remote control from Demcratic headquarters. Jaysus people, use your common sense. How come no one is reporting the vast majority of people in the hall who APPLAUDED Trent Lott politely, hmmmmm? And as to guest's complaints that the memorial service was hijacked by liberals, well guest...considering that it was a memorial service for liberal politician, his family, and campaign staff killed tragically less than a week ago--all six of whom devoted their entire lives to the cause of liberal and progressive political agendas, just what the hell did you expect? A memorial service that wouldn't offend the political sensibilities of the people who had sworn they would destroy the man being honored? |
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30 Oct 02 - 05:24 PM (#814729) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: DougR I thought the "Memorial" service was shameful. To turn what was to be a memorial service into a political rally cannot, in my opinion, be described as anything less. And after the Democratic party ranted and railed that the Republican candidate wasn't being respectful of the Wellstone's need to mourn. That candidate ceased all campaigning while the Democrats turned a memorial service into a political pep rally. Maybe everything is supposed to be fair game in politics, but I think the whole thing was in very poor taste. DougR |
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30 Oct 02 - 05:35 PM (#814733) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: wilco Senator's death, so close to the election, brought out the worst in the democratic party. I don't know which was more shameful: "baiting" the republicans for not being circumspect, or the unfortunate display of disrespect at the memorial service. |
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30 Oct 02 - 06:04 PM (#814758) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Here is some pretty eloquent commentary on the subject from the Minnesota Public Radio website's "Soapbox": In considering the Wellstone memorial Midmorning, Oct. 30, 2002 I admit I was somewhat taken aback by the highly partisan nature of some of Mr. Kahn's comments; we do, however, need to consider that he was speaking from a deep and profound grief that we cannot, perhaps, understand. Every one of the speakers was at risk of being overwhelmed by emotion to the point of tears; I think Rick Kahn was overwhelmed, as well, but his emotions and his particular relationship to Paul led him in another direction. This was how he felt about Paul, and he expressed it honestly. Bless his breaking heart. I also know that a group of 20,000 liberals, when gathering to remember the amazing life-force that bound them together toward a common goal would simply explode from the sheer, pent-up energy that had been stopped up by these tragic deaths. This event, far from being a political rally, was a healing event, and it was expressed in a way that was in keeping with the man we had known and respected - charged, a bit dramatic, perhaps even a bit over the top, but honest, raw, and true. My husband and I talked about what we thought a memorial to any Republican Senator would have been like, and we agreed it would have been quite different. That's just fine with us. ----------------------------------- Last night, we were mourning our beloved hero, urging each other to pick up the slack left in his absence, reassuring each other that his work will continue through us, and making sure political leaders heard our cries: we will not let the spirit of the Wellstones die. ------------------------------------ Some people in this forum and elsewhere have criticized Wellstone's children and Tom Harkin for making political stump speeches, but these criticisms lack justification. Wellstone's children and Harkin only exhorted the listeners to carry on Paul's fight. Wellstone's whole life was about fighting for the things he believes in, and I can imagine no more fitting tribute to his memory. I'm sure the Republicans will make similar speeches when Reagan dies. I hope my children make similar speeches when I die. The fact that these speeches made the memorial sound like a pep rally is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that Paul died just days before an election. -------------------------------------- At the memorial, I had a needed opportunity to cry and grieve and face the reality of Wellstone's death. That was my mood. I felt embarrassed by some people booing in greeting when several well-known people entered. I know Paul would have felt the same way. Those were shameful moments and far beneath Paul's spirit. Later, as I drove home, I struggled a little with the fact that part of the memorial was very campaign oriented and political. This was at odds with my personal sense of grief. But then I remembered that we go to memorials to honor the dead, to affirm their lives and what they've left us and to find hope for the future. For me all these were met. Paul Wellstone lived for me as a political person. What a lie and how artificial it would have been to be silent about his philosophy and ideals and how we could show respect to his life and memory through carrying on his work. ---------------------------------------------- The idea that the Republicans should be sitting in judgment on what is "proper" for the memorial of a sitting Democratic senator is just plain vulgar. ---------------------------------------------- I am almost stunned by those who criticize the Wellstone memorial service for becoming what they perceive as a political rally. This was a service for six people who died while all working together for one goal: to carry on Paul Wellstone's work in the U.S. Senate, and to retain the slim Democratic majority which now exists there. If the Democrats lose the election now, many people feel that the deaths of all those on board the plane will have been in vain. You cannot separate that feeling from the grief that all Wellstone family, friends, and supporters are experiencing. Anyone who watched the memorial service, held for one of this country's most passionate and vibrant political figures, and attended by thousands on a college campus, certainly couldn't have expected that the urgency of continuing the Wellstone legacy would not be expressed. ---------------------------------------- There is no need for media outlets to feign shock and outrage about this past Tuesday evening's memorial for the six individuals who died in the 10/25/02 plane crash near Eveleth. Our family was on hand at the memorial, and we wholeheartedly approved of the way the memorial unfolded. So, apparently, did the other 30,000+ people present as well as hundreds of thousands across the U.S. The memorial service helped to heal the broken hearts of families and friends. Just as important, it inspired and re-energized Minnesotans and Americans to remember ordinary folks and move forward on their behalf. Media outlets who make money as the result of their coverage of this and other events might wish to think twice before crying 'foul.' Political foes who wring their hands and then come out swinging might wish to ponder the thunder of the thousands of Minnesotans and other Americans who will not accept politics—or business—as usual any longer. -------------------------------------- |
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30 Oct 02 - 07:11 PM (#814796) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: ballpienhammer oh horsehockey! the dems lived up to their reps...a la the Kennedy swim and Billy boy's romping in la maison blanc! You would expect dignity? Good grief! |
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30 Oct 02 - 07:31 PM (#814802) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: kendall This is the jist of an e mail I sent to Ventura. "You want to forget about the thousands of democrats who were not part of that scene, and you threaten to appoint an independet, out of spite. Go ahead, you have that power, but, if you are unable to rise above that shame, you will come off as a petulent meathead. Folks, it's ALL politics! How come no one is raising hell about Bush flying all over hell pushing republican candidates?And, at OUR expense! Talk about free air time! |
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30 Oct 02 - 07:38 PM (#814807) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Lepus Rex He'll probably take "petulent meathead" as a compliment, though, Kendall... I thought the memorial was very moving, and appropriate. I can't really add anything that wasn't already in GUEST's last post, so... ---Lepus Rex |
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30 Oct 02 - 08:03 PM (#814823) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Yeah--and I'm sure you're a Democrat too, right ballpienhammer? A man with a lot of love and respect for Wellstone. Plenty of compassion for the suffering of a family which lost three of it's members less than a week ago. That Wellstone family did an absolute shit job of memorializing the dead. How dare they. Those Wellstones are absolutely despicable, aren't they? I tell you what. I sat through the entire memorial. I am not a Democrat, or a Republican, but an independent. Never been a party animal in my life. I've criticised some of the Democrats in these threads on Wellstone mightily. But frankly, this phony, scripted Republican backlash to try and gain a few points in the polls going back into full campaign mode, is what really churns my stomach. You want to know what I think is partisan and despicable about this memorial? The so-called "outrage" over it. It is insincere as hell, and Minnesotans can see perfectly where the criticism is coming from and considering the source. It is coming solely from the people who have a long, well publicised, rabid hatred for Paul Wellstone. As a Minnesotan, I've watched the Republicans and Jesse Ventura behave badly like this towards Paul Wellstone for years. So their reaction to last night's memorial was fully anticipated, and utterly predictable. Yes, everyone was shocked by Khan's remarks. But no Minnesotans were shocked by the tone or the content of the memorial service. The reactionary national media whores who have been causing trouble from their safe distances in Atlanta, DC, and New York weren't even present at the event. They have given none of the context of what has been going on in Minnesota since last Friday, or for the past 12 years with Wellstone, and have blown the whole thing totally out of proportion to how it is being viewed in Minnesota in general, and among voters in particular. For instance, the supposed "thousands jeering" at Lott was nothing of the sort. The memorial began at 6:30, and Rick Kahn didn't even appear until after 9:00, yet the criticism is that "the entire event was nothing more than a scripted campaign rally for Walter Mondale." Gimme a break. It was Khan's remarks, and his remarks alone, which most everyone agrees were out of line, that were over the top. That was, as I said, about a minute and a half out of 3+ hours. I am absolutely not apologizing for what he said, but the man was Wellstone's best friend, grieving fiercely, and under tremendous stress. His entire body was shaking as he spoke. He was fighting back tears in many parts of the speech. The social graces require we NOT draw attention to someone like that under the circumstances when they were so obviously out of line, as grieving people often can be. We should do what we would do if it was our uncle or brother uttering something unforgiveably inappropriate at our mother's funeral, which is forget about it, and focus on the rest of the 3 hours of beautiful, moving tributes, and how powerfully healing the memorial was to the families, friends, and supporters of the people who died. Everyone knows Rick Kahn shouldn't have said what he did. But he did. They also know what a good man he is, and how horrible he is feeling today. The noble thing for all of us to do is try and understand his pain, and forgive him for it. I mean, how do you suppose he feels today with the over the top reaction--knowing it was his remarks that sparked this outpouring of hatred for the man he loved? Perhaps people would like us to shoot the man. Or maybe hang him in a public square? Give him the electric chair? Or is it really just 3 hours of free tv coverage to "even the score" for showing a newsworthy local event in it's entirety on the local news stations people think should be meted out in the name of fairness to Republicans? Who of course, haven't lost 6 people in their senate campaign this year, and really need the press, because their guy is losing even worse now than before his opponent was tragically killed. Politicking indeed. |
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30 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM (#814849) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Jim Dixon At Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said, "It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we may take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion...." Granted, Lincoln used loftier language, more emotional restraint, and fewer words than the speakers at Wellstone's memorial, but they were saying essentially the same thing. Do you suppose Lincoln's detractors accused him of "politicizing" the dedication of a cemetery? |
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30 Oct 02 - 08:54 PM (#814857) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST So DougR, what did you think of Latimer at the memorial? |
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30 Oct 02 - 09:24 PM (#814876) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Genie Guest, I sincerely wish the American public at large could read your comments on the Wellstone Memorial and the way the national media have distorted it (in their usual anything-but-in-depth, everything-for-"a-good-story" way). Genie |
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30 Oct 02 - 09:31 PM (#814879) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: ballpienhammer Guest: dignity for the dead...party later, thankyou...and , MY politics is MY business! |
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30 Oct 02 - 10:23 PM (#814913) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly no. It's just that we were treated to three and a half days of Democrats berating the Republicans for an ongoing campaign that wasn't, while their's quite obviously was. I may not care for the fact that the Democrats got a free four hour TV campaign forum -- but that's life...er, that's just the way stuff happens sometimes. Life isn't fair. Besides, the TV time wasn't free. It cost a life (or 7). I wish I could shake this uneasy feeling that the DNC counted that cost. |
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31 Oct 02 - 08:14 AM (#815082) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST From this morning's Minneapolis Star Tribune: "With an emotional, fiery delivery reminiscent of Wellstone's stump style, Kahn told the 20,000 in attendance: "We are begging you to help us win this election for Paul Wellstone." He even pleaded with Republicans -- specifically U.S. Rep. Jim Ramstad -- to work for Wellstone's Democratic replacement. (As expected, former Vice President Walter Mondale was chosen Wednesday night by the DFL State Central Committee.) (DFL candidate for governor) Moe said Kahn's speech went too far. "He might have stepped over the line, I agree with that. But we should not let that overshadow what was a wonderful testimonial. . . . It's unfortunate that the comments of one individual might have gone over the line," he told Minnesota Public Radio. Ramstad struck a conciliatory chord. He's still supporting Republican Norm Coleman for the Senate, but he said he's also grieving the loss of "a great, great friend" in Wellstone. He said he wasn't bothered that Kahn singled him out. "I think it's unfortunate that a memorial service has become a center of controversy. Last night was about paying our final respects to six wonderful people and beloved Minnesotans who perished in a terrible tragedy. That was where my focus was. "People get carried away sometimes with emotions. We all get carried away sometimes with emotions. Just let it be," Ramstad said. There is only group of people outraged--Republicans and Jesse Ventura. They are angry about one thing and one thing only--that the Wellstone they hated was being portrayed sympathetically for 3+ hours on local television, one week before an election they were likely to lose. There are two Minnesota Republicans driving this "outrage" campaign--one is the state party chair, the other is one the most notoriously partisan and NASTY party hack. The other person who is standing alone in their criticism is Jesse Ventura, who also has an anti-Wellstone agenda of his own. This is all going to blow over, because decent people will eventually come to realize the memorial was most definitely NOT a campaign rally, and that the only thing out of line was the overwrought, grieving best friend of the senator's. Once people realize how badly the Republicans are behaving, the back lash will be pretty intense here in Minnesota. David Wellstone himself, AT THE MEMORIAL, immediately followed the speaker at fault on Tuesday night. He IMMEDIATELY apologized to the crowd and said he wouldn't have had him speak had he known that was what he was going to do. I wonder why Rush Limbaugh and CNN aren't reporting that fact? Or the fact that Wellstone campaign manager came out first thing yesterday morning and apologized again? What more do people think should be done? Those of you being so condemning--share with us what you think should be done to make things right? Or are you too just engaging in the sleazy Republican attacks on the memorial for grieving families? |
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31 Oct 02 - 09:18 AM (#815130) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: pattyClink I'm not Republican and I'm not Jesse Ventura and I and millions of others were offended. I am glad you think "everyone" in Minnesota had a good healing event together, but I'm quite sure the event did not represent "everyone", and the divisive controversy set up will not exactly promote bipartisan progress in the Congress. It's despicable for national leaders to behave like ranting children right after demanding a moratorium on campaigning from the other side out of "respect". And I'll admit, my feelings are stronger because I couldn't help but flash back to the ridiculous, grotesque post-impeachment party-rally held a few years ago with a similar cast of characters. There is an old word liberals used to use for people who were strongly, blindly partisan. It was chauvinist. It is sad to see a bunch of people who consider themselves noble altruists behaving as childish chauvinists. |
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31 Oct 02 - 09:25 AM (#815136) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST pattyClink, did you watch the memorial? I ask, because your portrayal of the event doesn't even remotely match the facts of the actual event, but does perfectly match the CNN/Fox/Imus/Limbaugh hysteria yesterday. Here is Salon.com's Joe Conason (who actually DID watch the entire event) response to the Republican attacks on the families who lost loved ones in the plane crash: Oct. 30, 2002 | The madness of King Jesse Does Jesse Ventura think of himself as a monarch? Appointing an "independent" to Wellstone's seat instead of a Democrat -- as he now threatens to do -- would be the ex-wrestler's final big tantrum. He was "offended" by the partisan tone of one speech, or so he says, and now he intends to punish Wellstone's supporters. What may really be bothering him, and what probably brought tears to Mrs. Ventura's eyes, was the lusty booing he received when they showed his face on the Jumbotron. People shouldn't have booed, but it must be hard to suppress that impulse if you're a Minnesotan confronted with Ventura. At that moment, the contrast between this cloddish egomaniac and the late senator must have been unbearable. It's like the difference between being a real wrestling champion and winning staged bouts on TV. The governor was offended. Mrs. Ventura cried. That's far more important than the feelings of the Wellstones, who merely lost their mother, father and sister. Anyone who wants a future in Minnesota politics would be well-advised to turn the temporary Senate seat down if offered it by the governor. Nobody who takes it will be remembered fondly for wasting the time and money, or for humoring a childish politician who hasn't quite outgrown the WWF. (A friend suggests that, if residency isn't required, Jesse can appoint the Rock.) Normal hype While reading about Ventura's madness on the Fox News site, I came across another Minnesota-related article, headlined "Coleman Ready to Win Wellstone Seat." That stopped me, since today's polls indicate the opposite. But there was nothing in the story to justify Republican optimism. Do the site's editors think their readers only look at headlines? Minnesota Democrat family values I stayed up late last night to watch C-SPAN's rebroadcast of the Wellstone service, a moving and wonderful tribute to the senator, his wife, his daughter and the staffers who died last Friday. Tom Harkin delivered a stunningly beautiful and rousing eulogy that would have made his dear friend very proud. The friends and family members who spoke offered the kind of comforting intimacy that is one of the main purposes of a funeral. The evening was mostly a remembrance, not a rally. Yes, the senator's campaign treasurer Rick Kahn went over the top in his appeal for votes to cement the Wellstone legacy, but his raw emotion is entirely understandable. He has lost his closest friends and cannot let them go. Now I understand that Imus, Drudge and various other etiquette experts are criticizing the event for being too political, too celebratory and not somber enough for their elevated tastes. Rush Limbaugh can be expected to weigh in with the same kind of carping (and Vin Weber, the former Republican congressman turned lobbyist, is whining about the political tone of the memorial, too). Not that anyone should care about this babble, but I do wonder why the media busybodies would presume to attack the Wellstone family at this moment. Is it not properly up to the Wellstone sons -- who gave an excellent account of themselves last night -- to decide how to mark the passing of their father, mother and sister? Has none of them ever attended a memorial service where joyous love prevailed over despair? I suspect they simply couldn't bear the sight of his fellow Democrats celebrating Wellstone's life, vowing to fight on in his name, and just not giving a rip what Imus, Drudge or the rest of the greasy GOP media might say. (In their present mood of fraudulent high-mindedness, these critics might better direct their anger toward the sleazy Howard Stern imitator in Minneapolis who openly wished for Wellstone's death on the air last month. As far as I know he still hasn't had the decency to apologize.) Both David and Mark Wellstone chose particular words that reminded them of their parents and sister as they spoke about their years together. The phrase that kept occurring to me, as I watched the Wellstone sons, was "family values." The marriage of Paul and Sheila Wellstone began 39 years ago, and would have endured until their deaths no matter when the end came. They raised three terrific children who went on to create their own families. From their devoted parents the sons and the daughter learned real values, not Sunday lip service. Having been required to research the lives of prominent Republicans lately for a book project, I will say only that the contrast with the Wellstone example provides another reason to laugh through the tears. Remember that when the likes of Vin Weber, Newt Gingrich's enabler, presume to lecture Democrats about decorum. More relevant anyway is the opinion of Bob Dylan, who mentioned the loss of "a great man and a great senator" last Saturday night during a Denver concert before he played "The Times They Are A-Changin'." The native Minnesota poet doesn't talk nearly as much as Limbaugh or Imus, but says more in a line than they've said in their entire lives. Now back to the news: Mondale is eight points ahead of Coleman in today's Star-Tribune poll. [9:35 a.m. PDT, Oct. 30, 2002] |
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31 Oct 02 - 09:27 AM (#815139) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: TIA The Rose Garden "rally" could not compete in grotesquerie with the impeachment itself -- Just as the "rantings" of the bereaved wishing to keep alive a crusaders dream in the presence of his body cannot compete in despicableness with the rantings of right wing talk radio wishing mostly to boost ratings. The hypocrisy meter is pinned at full scale. |
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31 Oct 02 - 09:33 AM (#815150) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Actually, while the hypocrisy meter is pinned at full scale, the sheer cruelty and crassness meter has been blown out by the right wing media, Jesse Ventura and his distraught little woman, and the Minnesota Republicans. Too bad for Norm Coleman. Until this staged media firestorm hit, he was looking so dignified. |
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31 Oct 02 - 09:47 AM (#815163) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: kendall Michael Niman at alternet.org advances the possibility that Wellstone was murdered. |
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31 Oct 02 - 10:05 AM (#815180) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST I just heard the Wellstone sons are scheduled to appear at a press conference with Mondale this morning. I don't know what media outlets will air the press conference live, if any. But Minnesota Public Radio is likely the best bet. And they have streaming audio, if anyone is interested. I can't even imagine how hard yesterday was to get through for the families. While the "firestorm" raged yesterday, the Wellstone sons were burying their sister. I can't even begin to imagine what they must be going through with all these virulent attacks on the memorial, while trying to just get through all the funerals. It really does boggle the mind. I'm sure they haven't heard/read much of the criticism themselves. At least I hope they haven't. |
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31 Oct 02 - 10:13 AM (#815185) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST A final goodbye to Marcia Wellstone Markuson Rosalind Bentley Star Tribune Published Oct. 31, 2002 MARK31 Perhaps the most sobering thing Wednesday about the last of the Wellstone memorials was the youth of many of the mourners. Teenagers and 20-and 30-somethings. Their smooth, rosy faces suggested that decades of life lie ahead of them. Just as they had for Marcia Allison Wellstone Markuson. As the mourners entered the sanctuary of Mount Olivet Lutheran Church in south Minneapolis, their eyes were drawn to a photo of a smiling Markuson placed at the base of the pulpit. It sat beneath a tremendous bouquet of tropical flowers in full bloom, as she was at age 33. Five days after the plane crash that killed Markuson; her parents, Paul and Sheila Wellstone, and five others, family members and friends said their final farewells. As the service began, the processional was led by Markuson's husband, Todd; her 7-year-old son, Joshua; three stepchildren; brothers Mark and David Wellstone, and other family members, friends and Wellstone supporters. Several of them bore flowers, which they laid against the photo of Markuson. "I wish I could give you a solid answer to the 'why,' " the Rev. Kurt Kalland said in the eulogy. "I tried, but I can't. I can't explain why planes crash in the middle of nowhere and people die. "I can tell you that I don't think this is the way God intended it to be." During the service, Mark and David Wellstone spoke of their love for their sister. They talked about her can-do spirit, remembering how they watched her cross-country track competitions in school and how she never gave up. A friend read from notes Marcia had sent her when they were in the seventh and eighth grades. Each note spoke of a teenager who placed great faith in her friends and who encouraged them in their endeavors. " 'Roses are red, violets are blue; I will never not be friends with you,' " read one poem contained in the childhood notes. Sobs echoed through the packed church. But Kalland tried to comfort the mourners, saying: "We know we can no longer hold her hand, but we know her hand is forever held by a love that will never die." |
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31 Oct 02 - 10:49 AM (#815200) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Bobert Well, danged! Here it is not a week after Paul's death and the Repubocrtas are both angling for votes over it. Shamefull on both sides, if ya' ask me! But I will say that if Trent Lott thought he'd get a hero's welcome in a traditionally Democratic state, under any circumstances, lket along a memeorial service for the most outspoken liberal in the Senate, he was being naive. So what if a few folks booed him. It *was*, afterall, just a few folks. But I don't blame the Repubs fir trying to beat this dead horse and they will probably get a few fence stragglers out of it but the one's they get they probably would have gotten anyway since this is such a non issue. Bobert |
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31 Oct 02 - 11:38 AM (#815245) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Even if the memorial had been the most partisan political event in the history of the world, the shrill political "outrage" campaign, when compared to actual event of 8 people being killed in a plane crash inconveniencing the campaign, just shows how out of proportion the supposed sin is to facts of the matter. The families were still attending funerals yesterday, and the Republicans decided that the way to restart their campaign, was by engaging in a full frontal assault on the memory of Wellstone. Before the family was even buried. There are plenty of Minnesota folks who aren't into politics at all, but who were deeply moved by the personal losses that these families have suffered. For all the tacky displays of politicking engaged in by the national Democrats since last Friday, those few examples caused mere tongue clucking. The phony moral outrage campaign being waged as election strategy by the Republicans though, is totally beyond the pale. For the people who have been hell bent on destroying Wellstone, and who have been waging the most negative senate campaign in Minnesota history, to come out of the memorial SCREAMING indignantly over the ways the Wellstone family & friends had besmirched the memory of Wellstone... Well, that DOES churn the stomach. This is the one over the top thing that will be remembered for years, I'm convinced of that. Minnesota Democrats haven't really been campaigning at all. Daschle did on Sunday, and so did Mondale's campaign manager when he leaked the "unofficial" news of the meeting between Mondale & his sons, but that was it. Other than that, the DFL was just laying low. They had to file the suit in the state Supreme Court over the absentee ballots, but that will be resolved today anyway. It isn't a very contentious issue, because it won't count for many votes in this election anyway, but the absentee ballot law is really screwed up & needs change, so everybody was going to pile onto that one anyway. The race won't be that close. I predict Mondale will will with a minimum of 5-10% margin. |
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31 Oct 02 - 12:09 PM (#815275) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Roger in Baltimore Anyone know information about Ann Reed who played a 12-string and sang a song about heros? She ended with a list of heroines and tagged on the names of those who were being honored. This was the only part of the memorial service I saw and I felt it was quite appropriate. I was channel surfing and I always stop when I see a singer with an acoustic guitar. Roger in Baltimore |
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31 Oct 02 - 12:34 PM (#815300) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Ann is great, and has a new CD coming out soon. Here is her website: http://www.annreed.com/ Larry Long also performed at the memorial, and his website is here: http://www.larrylong.org/ The gospel music was an ad hoc group of Twin Cities musicians, which included a whole mess of folks who have sung with the Steele Family Singers, a Twin Cities based gospel group, and their website is her:. http://www.thesteelesmusic.com/ |
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31 Oct 02 - 02:23 PM (#815378) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly thank you pattyClink. I appreciate your thoughts -- and that you can make them without a cut and paste. |
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31 Oct 02 - 10:36 PM (#815661) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Jim Dixon Ann Reed's song "Heroes" appears on her album "Hole in The Day", 1993. I searched in vain for a complete set of lyrics, but I did find a list of the women whose names appear in her song, along with short bios of them: http://www.soromundi.org/3perform/who-are-heroes.htm |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:05 AM (#815838) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST From our great governor, one of the three leaders of the outrage campaign against the Wellstones, we get this threat in this morning's St Paul paper: How would you like to be United States senator for a fortnight? That is the challenge Gov. Jesse Ventura has issued to nonpolitical "John Q. Citizen'' Minnesotans, and they are responding. Ventura's staff has received hundreds of calls, emails and applications from people promoting themselves or someone they admire as a temporary replacement for the late U.S. Sen. Paul Wellstone. "Applications are coming in, plus I have a few people in mind,'' Ventura said Thursday. "Saturday night, I was at a party where I ran into an old friend who's a garbage man, and he said he might want to do it. And I thought it was kind of appropriate. A garbage man certainly can spot garbage when they see it.'' Ventura, as always, is partly joking and partly serious. Joking, probably, about the idea of sending a refuse hauler to replace Wellstone, if only briefly. Serious about his reasons for abandoning his commitment to naming a member of Wellstone's Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party. "I felt very used and abused at that thing,'' Ventura said Thursday, referring to Tuesday night's memorial service for Wellstone. Ventura felt it became overly political and mean-spirited. "I'll return the favor now. Always remember, we SEALs, we don't get mad — we get even.'' |
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01 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM (#815948) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Lepus Rex Whoa! I'm a dopey fat dude with a shaved head: He's got to select me! ---Lepus Rex |
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01 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM (#816000) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Jesse has been depressed because no one is paying any attention to him anymore. Most of us are literally counting the minutes until the a**hole is out of office. It is getting very rare nowadays for the people who actually voted for him, to admit it. There was virtually no more discussion in the media yesterday about the Wellstone memorial, except by the local talking heads, all of whom were granted interviews with the guv (and have rarely been granted them in the past). The three local prime time male news anchors all said they felt duped--which were the exact same words the guv used. However, the wisdom of at least one of the news directors seem to prevail. He said his news channel had predicted/forewarned viewers that the memorial was likely to have a lot of political content because of who Wellstone was. Once the Republican Congressman from Minnesota, who was a good friend of Wellstone's, and who had been named by Kahn at the memorial, came out and said--good grief people, this was a memorial, I wasn't offended, and the media should drop it and stop doing what they were doing to the Wellstones, people REALLY started to back off. So today, the people with egg on their faces are the people with politically motivated "outrage" not the Democrats. The orchestrated outrage has been seen for what it is. The only people still screaming about it now (and yes, I anticipate they will right through election day) are the slimy Republicans with no conscience or morals (which is not all of them, just most of them) and the governor. One of the most ironic twists on the whole thing, is that the local media hates Ventura, and never misses an opportunity to point out his lack of knowledge about the social graces, and the finer points of cultivating productive relationships. But suddenly, because the local blow dried media whores weren't prepared for the Republican attacks against Wellstone, they decided to "prove" their objectivity and fairness by agreeing with the wrong Republicans, and aligning themselves with Jesse. Who of course, was so offended, he refused to remain in his seat until the family members had delivered their eulogy. And of course, everyone knows that being offended by the political tone of a eulogy is something which totally justifies walking out on the families of the deceased, claiming you had been duped, and vowing to take revenge of the family in order to "get even". I think that because Trent Lott left just before him (he had to catch a plane, as did a good number of the other dignitaries), that Ventura misread the situation, and figured he could justify walking out "in disgust". An aide to Lott came out and said Lott wasn't offended by any of the memorial, and that he indeed caught a plane out with a number of other Washington folks who had left the memorial at the same time. |
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01 Nov 02 - 01:54 PM (#816210) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: kendall The meathead hasn't answered my e mail. Do you suppose he won't? |
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01 Nov 02 - 01:59 PM (#816213) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing Are there any letter-writing/telephone campaigns protesting to Ventura? Can we be of any help? What he is doing seems totally outrageous and so inappropriate! GUEST, I really appreciate your first-hand accounts and willingness to keep us up to date. Thanks, kat |
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01 Nov 02 - 02:17 PM (#816224) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly "Michael Niman at alternet.org advances the possibility that Wellstone was murdered" --kendall 1. Wellstone was in a race too close to call -- with the balance in the senate hanging on the outcome. Now Mondale will win in a landslide (not to mention the nationwide gain in sympathy vote for Democrats) 2. Wellstone was becomeing a "millstone" around the Dems neck as one who was questioning all the moderations they were doing (including, but not limited to the Iraq thing). He was keeping the undereducated Dems questioning the leadership....which brings up... 3. Democrat leadership is thinly disguised Clinton working through the front of the DNC -- and Clinton is of provably dubious honor. 4. The death GUARANTEED a Democrat victory in MN, and with the campaign machinery (complete with pre-scripted responses -- it's now come out that the entire rally/memorial was scripted in Washinton -- not by the Wellstone family) even gained sympathy ground in other states. 5. The campaign from the death on, was so perfectly scripted and run. Now who is really the most likely to have ordered a "hit"? Republicans had NOTHING to gain -- the Democrat's gains are obvious already. |
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01 Nov 02 - 02:41 PM (#816236) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing Oh fercrisesakes, John Hardly, where are you getting that information? Give us some cites! Esp. for the Washington scripted thing! Does it matter at all to any of the GOP and its followers, what the people of Minnesota have to say, who were actually participants in the memorial? Let's not sling too much hash unless we can back it up with some proof, folks! |
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01 Nov 02 - 03:35 PM (#816275) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Bobert Hey, Kat, I love ya'... but John's theories do have some level of validity. The Dems do have more to gain. The get Minnesota, They may get enough sympathy in too-close-to-call staes. And they get that pain-in-th-butt Wellstone off their backs. I originally thought that the Repubs would gain more but the more I see it unfolding, it should help the Dems., not that it will be enough for them to hold the Senate, mind you, but a month ago I had the Seante written off to the Repubs and now it's closer. But who does get hurt the most, is the working class, because Paul Wellstone was the Senate's strongest voice for them. So either way, you're gonna have Corporate owned Repubocrats with no one speaking in dissent. Bobert |
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01 Nov 02 - 05:06 PM (#816342) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing Sure, that may be so, Bobert, but that doesn't mean the dems are guilty of assassination anymore than the GOP might or might not be guilty! Fear and conspiracy theories have taken over our world. If we don't stop their mongering and rise above it who will set a better example? |
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01 Nov 02 - 05:24 PM (#816353) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly ...but see, i didn't raise the issue, and you were only outraged when I suggested the alternative -- an alternative I don't believe to be true by the way -- merely trying to illustrate the knee-jerk conspiracy theories the Democrats seem so willing to accept. BTW (luv ya kat!) |
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01 Nov 02 - 05:38 PM (#816362) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing luvyatoo, John, ya buggah! However, I wouldn't excatly call that outrage...no, I am on a slow burn at the moment. Outrage would likely short out my cable connection!*bg* I am fed up with ALL of the fear/war mongering. If we want to get into conspiracies, let's talk about how Sept. 11th played right into the GOP's lap, or at least those of the Shrub and his cronies. If we let cynicism come to the fore, then we can even go a step further and decide just how evil the USA oil cartels are and figure out how they set the whole thing up with this war as the outcome. Gotcha going yet? BTW, I highly recommend the movie Conspiracy Theory with Mel gibson. We had a friend in Wyoming who reminded us of the main character in the movie, so much! Interesting to say the least. katgrinningatleast |
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01 Nov 02 - 06:40 PM (#816403) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: DougR Gee, kat, thanking a GUEST? A guest who attaches no name to his/her posts either! Is this the new kat? :>) DougR |
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01 Nov 02 - 06:51 PM (#816411) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Bobert Well, geeeezzz. kat. I gotta agree with you that either from fate, or perhaps conspiracy (direct or indirect from inaction) the Dems have not faired too well in the *dumb luck derby*. But cheer up, at some point in time the insanity will end and the Repubs will have to face the music. Just this morning in the Wsahington POst was a nice article about the Securities Exchange folks maybe looking in Bush's little Harkin Oil deal. This story will no longer stay buried forever than Cheney's Halburton Oil deal. So cheer up. Yeah, I know it ain't easy with Junior huffin-n-puffin and threat ening to blow folks houses down, but inspite of a few folks around there who think differently, Junior may just not getnhis war afterall. Seems that he;s getting off-the-records heat from just about every area other than the knuckleheads his daddy had him hire as cabinet secretaries. Bobert |
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01 Nov 02 - 07:24 PM (#816428) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing Thanks, Bobert! No, DougeR, a nicer GUEST! Sheesh! I'm not the only one who got down on nefarious guests!:-) |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:01 PM (#816547) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: raredance I watched the memorial celebration. The smattering of boos for Trent Lott came when people were still filing into their seats. The camera people zoomed in on Lott and suddenly his face was on the giant TV screens for the whole audience to see. When the bit of booing became noticeable, Lott actually cracked a bit of a smile for the camera. Given that he is a politician, he was likely pleased by the fact that he was recognized in Minnesota. The administration's emmissary Thommy Thompson ws barely noticed and he used to governor of neighboring Wisconsin. Here is another bit of compare and contrast information. GOP, RIGHT-WING MEDIA HONOR BOOING, BOOERS OF SENATOR Rush Limbaugh Cheers Man Who Led The Jeers Blame Object Of Booing For Arrogance, Disdain Standing Up For Good Manners And Family Values Some of the people in the huge arena, packed with 20,000 mourners, were angry when they caught a glimpse of the Senator. Disgust overcame them. They booed lustily, some of them shouting, "We don't want you here," and some shouting epithets. And for the next few days, the GOP and right-wing pundits had a field day -- supporting the booers, saying that they spoke the truth, and that the Senator deserved all that was dished out and more. Rush Limbaugh led the right-wing boo fest by having the man who led the booing on his program as Dittohead Hero Of The Day. Newsmax, Matt Drudge Neal Boortz, Kathleen Parker, and GOP radio talk show hosts nationwide cheered on the booers, and attacked the Senator they booed. What's wrong with this picture? Well nothing -- because the Senator being booed wasn't Trent Lott -- it was Hillary Clinton, about a year ago, at Madison Square Garden. at a huge concert honoring the heroic policemen and firefighters who gave their lives on September 11, 2001. It seems that some of those in the audience thought that this upbeat yet solemn occasion should -- gasp! -- be an occasion for politics. Hear! hear! said Rush and his clones, who booed right along with them. So you see, folks, it's not the boos that matter to these right-wing thugs. It's who's getting booed. If it's Trent Lott being booed, it's a travesty. If it's Hillary Clinton being booed, it's an act of patriotism. These people have no shame, no principles, no morals. They just want power. And will say anything, do anything to get it. from MWO.com Senator Clinton knew the event was more important than her and she ignored the intense booing that got replayed numerous times on TV and radio. rich r |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:20 PM (#816564) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Bobert Well, danged, rich, well said... I'm not too much into Dems but I islike Repubs (ingeneral, Doug...) a lot more. They seem to have the market captured in hypocracy. Bobert |
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01 Nov 02 - 11:47 PM (#816607) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: DougR Rich: Oh well. Thanks for clarifying the situation. They only booed Trent Lock while they were filing into their seats. That's a relief. That explains everything! I, for one, appreciate your clearing that up. Still tacky though, in my opinion. DougR |
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02 Nov 02 - 05:28 AM (#816680) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly damn reassuring tho know Dems are no better than Repubs. ...but mommy, he hit me first. ...but mommy, everyone is doing it. Aspiring to the height of Limbaugh decency. What more could a person ask of their party? *BG* |
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02 Nov 02 - 10:31 AM (#816813) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST The backlash against the Republican outrage campaign deepened here in Minnesota on Friday, when two things were revealed, and one rumor was running rampant. First, as to "scripting" one only need read CNN right wing media whore Robert Novak's column in the St. Paul Pioneer Press. He has an entire Democratic conspiracy theory he puts forward, which defies not only the facts of the situation, but rational sense as well. He decided to interject race as an issue into the Minnesota US senate race, by dragging Alan Paige's name through the mud of his muckracking. For those of you who are not aware of who Alan Paige is, he is a former Notre Dame & Minnesota Viking football hero, who is one of the Minnesota Supreme Court justices. Alan Paige was so furious about it, he did something Supreme Court justices rarely do, which is make a public comment about it. Here is what he had to say about the CNN/GOP commentator's column: "Because of this week's extraordinary circumstances and the column's insidious use of race, Mr. Novak's comments require a response. Beyond the use of race, the column is, in its references to me, factually inaccurate," Page said. The Novak column said, "According to Minnesota sources, he (Page) was eager to seek the Senate seat. But the DFL apparently did not want to risk running the African-American Page in an overwhelmingly Caucasian state, and Page was quickly discouraged." Page said that, contrary to the column's claims, he "did not seek to be nominated to the Senate seat" and that beyond his friends and "a number of supportive citizens," he was not asked to be a candidate. Nor, he said, was he discouraged. He also said the Novak column inaccurately said he "led the state Democratic ticket in recent elections." Page noted that judicial elections in Minnesota are nonpartisan and conducted separately from the political parties. "I find it offensive and unacceptable that forces beyond my control have used me as a vehicle to interject race into Minnesota's political debate,'' Page said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, the Coleman campaign asked the Republican National Committee to pull the negative attack ad against Mondale it planned on running beginning yesterday. It seems that, despite the fact that NO media outlets locally or nationally are reporting it, the mood on the ground is that the Republicans are perceived by voters as looking every bit as bad, if not worse, than the Democrats in the wake of Senator Wellstone's death. There may be a consensus forming now that the intensity and volume of the shrill outrage campaign is directly related to how desparately the White House still wants to win here. Cheney was here on Friday, Laura Bush is here today, and the pres select will be here for a rally tomorrow, which will be given complete, uninterrupted coverage on the local TV news as "equal time" for the Wellstone memorial. Anyone still wondering who is gaining the most from the Wellstone death? Despite the Minneapolis Star Tribune poll showing Mondale 8 points ahead of Coleman, it is the only one showing Mondale ahead. Every other poll has them locked in a dead heat. Finally, the rumor mill is now suggesting that the outrage campaign worked perfectly for Republicans. The Republican outrage campaign, if it translates into actual votes on Tuesday, will benefit Coleman. Why? Because the pre-Wellstone death political climate gave the advantage to Wellstone in a dead heat, because of Wellstone's grassroots support--they tend to come out and vote more than Republicans. So on the ground, the media outrage campaign may well end up being the best effort the Republicans have been able to make in the entire two year long campaign by Coleman. Wellstone's death may well end up putting Coleman in office now, because of the depths of depravity the Republicans were willing to stoop when they began the moral outrage attack in the media. It is now believed by many involved in independent grassroots politics in Minnesota, that if there was any conspiracy involved in the Wellstone death, it was the media strategy between local and national Republican party hacks, and the national right wing Republican talk shows, to come out of the Wellstone memorial on Tuesday night with guns blazing, long before Rick Kahn made his overwrought speech. In other words, many people on the progressive non-Dem party side, as well as the state DFL, believe that there would have been a Republican led media attack campaign against the Wellstones and Mondale no matter what happened at the Wellstone memorial, because that is just how bad a particular group of depraved Republicans want to win it, by any means necesary. And as history has demonstrated, despite people's claims that they don't like negative attack campaigns, everyone also knows it gets cadidates elected, especially in tight races. So it seems that the Republican media strategy to attack the Wellstones and Mondale so vociferously before the crowd even got out of the arena on Tuesday night, may have worked brilliantly to the Republican's advantage. The Republican media outrage campaign is now being viewed as one negative attack campaign that didn't even require tv ads, because the media uproar was created without spending a dime on advertising, and was the only way the Republicans could get away with going negative after Wellstone's death. The Republican led negative attacks have proven very effective with those people who hated Wellstone, most of whom likely wouldn't have come out to vote on Tuesday if Wellstone hadn't died, or if Rick Kahn hadn't spoken at the memorial. The manufactured controversy may very well end up mobilizing all kinds of Wellstone and Democrat hating Republicans and Republican leaning independents to go to the polls and vote for Coleman out of spite, and to "demonstrate their disgust" with the Wellstone and Mondale campaign. And considering that the Wellstone and Democrat hating governor is leading the charge, there is some suggestion that there may have been some collusion between the governor & the Republicans in their media campaign. The governor is now the only political figure with a bully pulpit who can continue to attack Wellstone and the Democrats with impunity, because he isn't running, and no one believes any of his Independence Party candidates have a chance of winning on Tuesday. Republican dirty tricks at it's most sophisticated, I'd say. |
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02 Nov 02 - 11:31 AM (#816847) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly paranoia at its most obvious (oh one who goes by no name). I'll betcha the folk CD of your choice that Democrats win MN in a landslide -- oh wait....that would mean you'd have to become un-anonymous. Are we ever going to get past the notion that pointing out what the other candidate has said/voted for is "attacking"? "vicious"? On a lighter note, did anyone notice that J. Bartlett stated in the TV debate that he was not for "bipartisanship" as demagogued currently in Washington. That he believed that folks voted for representation of what they believed in and that compromise was not always admirable. Hopefully at some point life will imitate art. Of course, we would, at some point have to get used to the notion that those who disagreed with us politically were our enemies. I think it's been a long time since, in this country, any but the most extreme have held to the notions that the opposing views accuse them of. Most liberals I know understand that a free(er) market is the only means by which a society/community/country will generate enough production to have the means to support the weakest in the community. Most conservatives I know, though they want government limited (in the original sense put forth by A constitution, are not anarchists by any stretch and will gladly agree to the notion that the government can be pretty good at doing some things. The leaders of both address the extremes and the fears -- and we willingly go along because we have no regular assurances from the other side that they understand the realities of the pragmatic middle. |
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02 Nov 02 - 01:08 PM (#816924) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Spoken like a true partisan radical Republican centrist, John Hardly. That radical center which stands for nothing, tolerates anything, and condemns and demonizes everyone who disagrees with their limited world view as "the most right of all". |
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02 Nov 02 - 04:22 PM (#817033) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: John Hardly naw....not at all. I'm no centrist. I'm no Republican. I can't really think of anyone I've recently "Demonized" ....oh, except for folks who develop their political world view by defining the opposition for them. I don't care for that much. I'm a military isolationist -- I know, no such label -- I believe in a strong enough military for our defense. I don't believe in international interference. (I don't believe Einstein was "Einsteinian" when he opined that you couldn't simultaneously prepare for war and....well you know how the bumper sticker goes. He was a mathemetician ferchrisakes). Neither party offers me this option but that doesn't make me a centrist, and certainly not partisan. I believe in a National sales tax instead of an income tax. Neither party offers me that option. That doesn't make me a centrist and certainly not partisan. I'm pro-life but I want Congress and a President to vote it up or down -- not have choice hanging by the thread of a questionable Supreme Court decision. I think that if a bill was proposed, debated, and voted on, the pro-life movement would have their legs cut entirely out from underneath them (legally and politically). There is no way Congress would vote for an abortion ban. As it stands the pro-life side holds the high ground arguement. Neither party offers me this option but that doesn't make me a centrist, and certainly not partisan. I don't think that Social Security should be included in the regular budget. I think money collected for SS should be used for SS alone. I'm tired of this issue being used for political gain every two years at election time -- and SS doesn't have to be hanging so precariously. Neither party offers me this option but that doesn't make me a centrist and certainly not partisan. The majority of those I know (hell, the majority of Americans) don't see these issues (and others) my way. I love them, play music with them, play basketball with them, argue with them over a few drinks, and they think I'm as looney as I may think a few of them -- and there's not a "demon" in the bunch. Of course, most of them I know by name, or by a forum name, and that sort of helps to raise the level of civility in our disagreements. I don't stand for nothing, though lots of what I'd like to see happen are pipe dreams -- so I stand for personal integrity, the golden rule, caring for those around me and praying that others choose to live the same way -- I do the things within my control -- not many of them political. I tolerate LOTS! I believe many behaviors are objectively evil but I live peaceably with those I disagree with and leave moral judgements between folks and their creator -- unless they cross legal lines -- then, sometimes as a good citizen it is my duty to speak up. I'm not sure my world view is any more limited than most folks is....I mean, even yours would appear to be limited to what mine is not *grin*. ....but thanks for caring. |
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02 Nov 02 - 04:38 PM (#817049) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST I seem to recall you describing yourself as Republican leaning Libertarian, John Hardly. And your political positions seem pretty slippery to me, depending upon the spin you'd like to put on the subject being discussed at any given moment. As to your supposed tolerance regarding other people's points of view, it seems you aren't very tolerant of what I've been posting in these Wellstone threads. Considering that I've condemned both Democrats and Republicans behavior in the wake of Wellstone's death here, I find it odd that you so very stridently oppositional about anything I've said. And especially considering how far northern Indiana is from Minnesota. |
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03 Nov 02 - 10:17 AM (#817390) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Final poll results in Minnesota came out this morning. It looks like Coleman will win. |
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03 Nov 02 - 10:45 AM (#817401) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: katlaughing Daniel Shore opined on NPR, yesterday, that Mondale would win hands-down. I would hope all of the people who cared about Wellstone would galvanise and come out en force to make sure that happens. |
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03 Nov 02 - 04:00 PM (#817631) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: DougR No way to tell until the votes are counted, kat. Daniel Shore probably had a large dose of "hope sos" in his calculation. Your guess is as good as his at this point. DougR |
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03 Nov 02 - 10:08 PM (#817841) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST Yeah, I agree DougR. It is all conjecture until the votes are counted. They are still statistically in a dead heat, and polls have, at times, been very wrong. This race is just to out there for anyone to call it before the Secretary of State sings (ahem!), which may well be the next morning, as it appears all the supplemental ballots for the senate race will be counted by hand, rather than (or in addition to?) being counted electronically, as the regular ballots will be counted. |
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04 Nov 02 - 10:21 AM (#817985) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: GUEST I've never seen politics as polarized between the Democrats and Republicans as this election in Minnesota. I just came home from dropping kids off at school, and at the freeway ramp intersection during rush hour, we had a Mondale supporter on one corner, competing for honks and waves with a Coleman supporter on the opposite corner. If anyone is in any doubt as to how the media is contributing to this "battle of the parties" political mentality, here is this interesting tidbit. Minnesota Public Radio and the local NBC affiliate are sponsoring the only debate including Mondale this morning, and they have locked out the third party candidates from participating, claiming most people don't want the "interference" in the debate between Coleman and Mondale. We are used to seeing this, of course. It is done frequently in the debates to third party candidates, but hasn't been done much in Minnesota this year for either the governor or US senate race, because we have a third party governor and the Greens have major party status (ie over 5% of the vote). And the decision to exclude the third party candidates from debating Mondale at all is strictly the media's call. No one else's. So in whose interest is the media acting, hmmmm? Thankfully, the Independent Party candidate is trying to get an injunction to stop the debate. I know he'll never get it, but at least it draws attention to this debacle where the real loser is the democratic electoral process and the voters. I won't be voting for either of the major parties this year, or probably any time in the near future. As I've said before, I'm a political animal in the grassroots sense, but I've never been a party animal. I've never been as disgusted with electoral politics as I am this year. The party politicians and mass media creating "battles" for their ratings are so depraved and despicable, I am seriously considering a move to Canada. |
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04 Nov 02 - 10:41 AM (#818005) Subject: RE: Wellstone Memorial From: Bobert Well, GUEST, if it weren't so cold up there, I'd probably consider it my ownself. Gotta agree with you that this election is more if a *dog and pony show* than anything that even slightly resembles democracy in action. The big boys own the players, they own the stage, they *direct* the agendas and the voters do there part in electing or selecting someone from my "None-of-the-Above" column of corporate owned puppets. And then the voters feel like they have been *heard*. Hahahaha. Just a big joke. The US won't have democracy until the voters have had enough of participating in this corporate circle jerk. This can only happen with *real* campainge reform, publicly funded elections, uniform balloting, universal voting machines, inclusion of third, forth anf fifth party canidates in public debates, election day becoming a national holiday, etc, etc. Bobert |