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01 Nov 02 - 08:06 AM (#815840) Subject: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: McGrath of Harlow "Dear Sir or Madam, will you read my book..." Writing formal letters to strangers in English tends to involve an initial awkardness, when you don't know anything about the person to whom you are writing. I don't feel comfortable writing "Dear Sir", when for all I know the person I'm writing to is awoman. "Dear Sir or Madam" seems very ponderous. In any case, even if I know the recipient was a woman, but I don't know her name, "Dear Madam" doesn't really feel quite right. After all, for a man I wouldn't write "Dear Mister". But there is no proper female equivalent of "Sir" in English, unlike many other languages. "To whom it might concern"? Sounds pretty remote. Any suggestions anybody? |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:24 AM (#815857) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Declan In Gaelic we use the phrase A Chara (literally friend but considered to be OK as a formal mode of address. This was standard phraseology from the Irish Civil Service for years, even when the body of the letter was written in English. The equivalent sign off at the bottom is "Is Mise, Le Meas" which translates literally as I am, With Respect. Of course none of this is any use to you unless your addressee understands Gaelic. I think Friend on its own sounds over familiar. Dear Friend ? Maybe. On a total aside, for the first time ever the Irish Times now has a woman editor (Geraldine Kennedy). From the day she took over the opening of all letters on the Lettters to the Editor page - a highly influential page in this newspaper was Madam. |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:41 AM (#815881) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: greg stephens A serious problem. I suppose you can say for "Dear Sir or Madam" that at least the person you are addressing will know youre trying to be polite and formal, and unlikely to be annoyed. But I certainly wouldnt write "Dear Madam" if I knew it was a woman, that sounds downright offensive. Maybe sticking to emails is the answer, where the convention as I understand it is you dont have to put dear anybody. Luckily in my life the occasions I have to write to unknown recipients are very few.Writing to your bank-manager springs to mind. I suppose you could always write "Dear Bank Manager". |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:44 AM (#815882) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: greg stephens Come to think of it, how should I address you, McGrath of Harlow? In full? Shortened to "McGrath", which sounds a bit public-schooly? And I could use your christian name, which I happen to know, but I dont that is appropriate on Mudcat as it is not the name you use here. But I digress. |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:54 AM (#815903) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull this one is easy, you should just write Hello. |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:57 AM (#815908) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: greg stephens Hello jonn |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:58 AM (#815912) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: kendall I use, Greetings: |
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01 Nov 02 - 09:01 AM (#815921) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: catspaw49 "Hey! Yo! Listen Up Mother Fucker," That ought to at least get their attention......... Spaw |
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01 Nov 02 - 09:04 AM (#815930) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Willie-O Good Day (I'm from the Ottawa Valley). Or as we would say when picking up the typical three-headed, one-legged hitchhiker: "G'day, g'day, g'day, hop in!" W-O |
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01 Nov 02 - 09:26 AM (#815968) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: smallpiper The accepted form and (aligidly) gender neutral is "Dear Sirs" well what do you expect language changes all of the time. regards herself |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:04 AM (#816011) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: mack/misophist When I need to use something, I use 'Dear Person'. It works for me. Except when writing to animals. |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:05 AM (#816014) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Amos You could try "Howdy!". But not "Boy Howdy!". Or, as said above, "Hello". Too formal? "Hiya!", or "G'day, folks." Or "Dear (Company)". If they doon't like it you can always claim to be a dispossessed Nigerian Princess or something. A |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:13 AM (#816021) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Uncle_DaveO How about: "Hey, you!" ???? Dave Oesterreich |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:22 AM (#816029) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Midchuck 'Zup, Dood? Might as well go all the way into the 21st century... P. |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:24 AM (#816030) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: EBarnacle1 Since you are addressing potential readers, why not simply say "Dear Reader?" |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:30 AM (#816041) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Bat Goddess I try to get the actual name of the person I'm addressing, rather than just a title, but this isn't always possible. (But you'd be surprised what you can accomplish with a phone call.) For at least the past 10 years I've been using "Hello" in formal correspondence and "Salu!" among friends. Linn |
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01 Nov 02 - 10:31 AM (#816043) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: GUEST,toribw who should be working Spaw, I used a greeting similar to yours once while applying for a job...funny, but I never heard from them. *g* I use Good People when adressing correspondence to someone I don't know. It sounds a little less lame to me than some of the alternatives that I came up with. |
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01 Nov 02 - 11:09 AM (#816087) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: katlaughing If I can't find out their names, I at least try to have a title and would address them as that, as someone noted above, "Dear Editor" etc. I, personally, would not care to receive one which called me "Madam." Sounds way to matronly and formal!*bg* If you really are trying to get someone to read your book, I like the suggestion of "Dear Reader;" also, just a simple "Hello." |
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01 Nov 02 - 11:15 AM (#816089) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Declan Sometimes if I'm sending eMails around work to many people I address them as Folks. This might be seen as a bit in Formal - but the readers of your letters must be Folks - I've never seen a Horse read one. |
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01 Nov 02 - 11:19 AM (#816091) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: wilco Fellow Earthlings. |
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01 Nov 02 - 11:32 AM (#816100) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Ebbie "Mother Fucker" Ah. I get it. This way both sexes are referred to. Right, Spaw? |
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01 Nov 02 - 11:35 AM (#816102) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Nigel Parsons I was always taught to avoid starting a letter, "Dear sir,stroke Madam" ! Nigel |
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01 Nov 02 - 12:42 PM (#816162) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Mrs.Duck Can't really see the problem with this one. 'Madam' is the female form of 'Sir' not of 'Mister' which would be 'Missus' or 'Miss'. I would expect to be addressed as madam by waiters, shop assistants, bank staff etc as a form of politness. That said I did on my first weeks working in an office quite innocently tell the boss that it was rude to write 'Dear Sir' on a French letter!!! |
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01 Nov 02 - 04:59 PM (#816334) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Glade Around here, "Dear Sir or Ma'am" is considered polite for correspondence, 'Madam' being considered old-fashioned, pompous, and/or risque. You're right, it's always more polite to personalize your French letters. If you don't know the person's name, just don't write anything ;) Glade |
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01 Nov 02 - 05:05 PM (#816339) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Amos French letters are usually pretty personal -- if you don't know the person's name by the time they are broughtinto the equation, I am sure you may well have met under dubious circumstances... A |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:28 PM (#816485) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: robinia I'm happy that someone mentioned "ma'am" -- don't know if it works as well in letters as in speech, but as a Yankee, even as a half-Brit, I've always felt that this southern salutation fillled a real gap in the English language. (BTW, in one of the early grades of school I was very given to "hey, you!" I seem to recall that my teachers took offense....) |
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03 Nov 02 - 12:21 PM (#817463) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: McGrath of Harlow "Ma'am" in England tends to be reserved for addressing the Queen. Which I very rarely need to do. The Irish solution "A Chara" is far the neatest, but it's not really usable outside Ireland. (What about Scots?) I agree the best way sometimes is to use the job title. In which case maybe it's as well to avoid writing "Dear Madam" in normal circumstances, for fear of musinderstandings. Finding the actual name is best - though even that doesn't avoid all the problems. For example, is it "Dear John" or "Dear Mr Smith", or "Dear John Smith". Quakers tend to use the latter and it makes a lot of sense - especially when the recipient has a name that don't tell you the gender, such as Robin or Evelyn (and also avoids all the Ms/Mrs/Miss hassles). But some people think it sounds overfamiliar to a total stranger. |
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03 Nov 02 - 12:45 PM (#817486) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon I use the Terminology Dear Sir / Lady , |
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03 Nov 02 - 01:02 PM (#817499) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: GUEST,KingBrilliant I usually dodge the issue by using a "RE : subject....." line, then launching straight into the letter. "Dear Sir or Madam" just makes me giggle. Kris |
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03 Nov 02 - 07:50 PM (#817762) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: smallpiper "Fellow Earthlings" - thats a bit presumptious!! |
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04 Nov 02 - 04:21 PM (#818368) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Don Firth ACHTUNG!! Don Firth |
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04 Nov 02 - 04:37 PM (#818387) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: GUEST,Kim C Kendall, I like "Greetings" also. Or I will say something like, "Dear Customer Service Manager." Personally, I don't mind being called Madam or Ma'am. I am a Ma'am, after all. I don't like being addressed as "Young Lady" because 1)I'm 35, and 2) I always think I'm in trouble... |
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04 Nov 02 - 04:50 PM (#818399) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: mg I think if it is for something formal I would and do use Dear Sir or Madam or Ma'am...if it was informal, like requesting a catalog, I say dear Staff.. or Dear Manager or whatever. There is a waitress here in town who calls me, and I presume other female customers, My Lady. I am going to call ladies that sometime. I like it... mg |
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04 Nov 02 - 05:51 PM (#818462) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Little Hawk Spaw, you left out the comma before "Motherfucker". Some people might find that offensive. Your greeting should have read: "Hey! Yo! Listen Up, Mother Fucker," Try to bear these things in mind. Politeness will get you a long way in life, even if you ain't got good looks! :-) I believe your chosen greeting (WITH the comma included, of course!) is pretty standard in the fields of Rap and Hip-Hop. I preface ALL my letters to Rap business contacts in that fashion. - LH |
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04 Nov 02 - 06:03 PM (#818470) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: McGrath of Harlow Was it Les Dawson who said that he had received this letter starting Dear Sir, but that the person writing it obviously had some problem spelling, since they'd spelt "Sir" C-U-R ? |
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04 Nov 02 - 06:09 PM (#818474) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Fingerbuster In the midlands it's - Ayup miduck a'y awreet. |
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04 Nov 02 - 06:35 PM (#818491) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Ed. Dear Friend? |
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04 Nov 02 - 09:43 PM (#818630) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: catspaw49 I tell ya' Hawk, the comma implies a space or pause and frankly I don't pause when I say "Listen up Motherfucker." I think my real mistake there was in writing Mother and Fucker as two words when in reality everyone knows it's a stand alone word all by itself. If I were wanting to really accent the thing for max emphasis then it needs to be: "Hey!!! Yo!!! Motherfucker!!! Listen Up!!!" Also, to address Ebbie's comment about applying to male and female, "Motherfucker" can work, but I think to be absolutely politically correct, a better term that can apply equally to either sex would be "Cocksucker." Spaw |
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05 Nov 02 - 01:01 AM (#818732) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Little Hawk Ah. Now you've got it exactly right, Spaw. Well done! You are on your way to a lucrative career managing and/or booking Rap concerts in Ohio and nearby regions. - LH |
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05 Nov 02 - 06:12 AM (#818881) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Banjer If writing to an unknown person or group of people how about using as the opening of the letter...'Ladies and Gentlemen, ? Covers all bases and is polite without seeming to be too familiar. |
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05 Nov 02 - 06:34 AM (#818896) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: McGrath of Harlow When sending an unfriendly letter leaving out the "Dear" makes sense. Starting a letter "Sir" makes it sound like a challenge to a duel. "Madam" on its own has a similar quality. But "Sir or Madam" - no, it somehow sounds grovelling. |
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05 Nov 02 - 06:43 AM (#818899) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Mr Happy sir, i remain your most dutiful & obedient servant [grovel, snivel, kow tow] |
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05 Nov 02 - 11:51 AM (#819069) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: Little Hawk Very good, Mr Happy. Now polish my boots, if you please... - LH |
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05 Nov 02 - 02:15 PM (#819190) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: SharonA Kevin (McGrath): To my mind, the "Will you read my book?" part of the letter – the request itself – seems far more awkward than the "Dear Sir or Madam" part! ;^) |
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05 Nov 02 - 02:41 PM (#819225) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: EBarnacle1 The term "Motherfucker" is inappropriate when writing to Rappers. The correct term is "Hey, mufu." If you are going to write in a foreign tongue, a lees use tha tun a spuken. [For those who prefer their English intelligible, that was "at least use the tongue as spoken.] |
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05 Nov 02 - 03:24 PM (#819260) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: catspaw49 EBarnacle ... I was not writing to Rappers when suggesting the opening greeting. However your point is well taken as to expressing oneself. Now if I were to phonetically write it as I have many times in this forum, the word "fuck" is generally pronounced "fock" by second and third generation Dagos like myself. It's also used at a reasonably high frequency when in groups, ie.: "Aaayyy, go fock yerself ya scumbag mutherfocker...Fock you an anybuddy who fockin' looks like you." Spaw |
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05 Nov 02 - 06:15 PM (#819403) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: GUEST,Melani Unless I'm trying to be totally formal, I use "Dear Folks." |
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05 Nov 02 - 10:57 PM (#819580) Subject: RE: BS: Dear Sir or Madam... From: maire-aine For complaints, I use "Dear Sir or Madam". For almost everything else, I use "Dear Folks". |