DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs

22 Nov 02 - 07:15 AM (#832377)
Subject: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

From today' Guardian. PLEASE HELP!

Fancy footwork lands pubs in the dock

Colin Blackstock
Friday November 22, 2002
The Guardian

The pub owners tried everything to stop it including putting up signs, rearranging the furniture and even asking people to refrain. But it was all to no avail: council officials diagnosed outbreaks of spontaneous dancing, and the owners were fined £5,000.
Officials from Westminster city council initially spotted four people dancing to piped music at the Pitcher and Piano pubs in Soho, central London. Later, as the rhythm took control, that figure rose to five. On another visit as many as 11 people were dancing. Something had to be done.

The council took action against Wolverhampton and Dudley Breweries, which runs the two pubs, where customers had been spotted getting down to the piped music.

With their patrons caught red-footed, the company pleaded guilty to not having a proper licence which allows dancing.

It was fined £2,500 for each offence, plus costs of £1,600 at a London magistrates court on Wednesday.

Derek Andrews, Wolverhampton and Dudley's managed house chief, said the company had tried everything in its power to stop customers from breaking into dance, even going so far as to turn the music off, but people still continued to dance.

Council officials have also served two written warnings on another pub in Wardour Street, Soho, about people found "swaying", according to the licensed trade's newspaper the Publican.

Under current law, dancing is only allowed if premises have been granted a public entertainment licence.

Bob Currie, director of the community protection department at Westminster council, said in a letter quoted in the Publican: "Dancing could be described as the rhythmic moving of the legs, arms and body usually changing positions within the floor space available and whether or not accompanied by musical support."

Link to story, and details of how you can write to the Guardian.

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22 Nov 02 - 07:16 AM (#832378)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,845266,00.html

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22 Nov 02 - 08:05 AM (#832412)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

Who is correct, Dr Howells or the Council?

Government Minister responsible, Dr Howells states in a letter to Michael Portillo 14/03/02.

"However, under Section 182 of the Licensing Act 1964 a public entertainment licence is not required if music or dancing is performed by less than three performers on licensed premises i.e. the 'two in a bar rule'. The rule is intended to apply to public performances put on by a public house to entertain the public and should not prevent ordinary people singing together or DANCING in public houses".

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22 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM (#832455)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: Mr Happy

no tapping your feet- clapping- swaying, laffing, or smiling- what next?

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22 Nov 02 - 11:51 AM (#832632)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: Dave Bryant

What about all the pubs with rather restricted toilet facilities (esp for the women) will they be breaking the law if people jog up and down while they're queuing for the loo ?

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22 Nov 02 - 01:58 PM (#832751)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

More on the same story in the London Evening Standard.

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22 Nov 02 - 01:59 PM (#832753)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

http://www.eveningstandard.co.uk/news/articles/2164697?source=Evenin

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22 Nov 02 - 03:47 PM (#832847)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex

I thought the current legislation explicitly required a PEL for any dancing.

A pub near my office advertises a weekly disco and has signs around the bar saying "No Dancing".

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22 Nov 02 - 03:59 PM (#832859)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow

Hand jive appears to be all right accordfing to Bob Currie's little definition.

Think he's related to Edwina Currie? (Maybe he is. That definition of dancing must surely include that sort of stuff as well - "rhythmic moving of the... body, usually changing positions...")

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22 Nov 02 - 04:25 PM (#832882)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

I thought the current legislation explicitly required a PEL for any dancing.

I don't think anyone told Dr Howells, who was caught rather 'overspinning', in his above quote. But he was only writing to Michael Portillo.

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22 Nov 02 - 04:29 PM (#832887)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: McGrath of Harlow

Correction: "But he was only lying to Michael Portillo."

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22 Nov 02 - 05:09 PM (#832920)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

Do you think Michael Portillo believed him, and was one of the dancers?

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24 Mar 03 - 06:15 AM (#916906)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: The Shambles

The following link is to The Publican, where the Company that own the pub in question, slam the Council concerned after finally paying for and obtaining a PEL.

http://www.thepublican.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=9062&d=32&h=24&f=23&dateformat=%25o%20%25B%20%25Y

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25 Mar 03 - 02:11 AM (#917651)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: open mike

it might become apparent why irish dancers hold their hands down at
their sides so as to not appear to be wildly gyrating while dancing
away--something to do with officers looking thru the windows for
waving hands, an seeing none, could not be sure there was any dancing going on. It seems there my be some way to dance inwardly, and not
show any outward signs, to avoid any criminal charges??!!

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25 Mar 03 - 04:08 AM (#917701)
Subject: RE: DANCING OUTBREAK! and definition. PELs
From: smallpiper

There is always minimalist dancing which involves the wild and energetic (not forgetting rythmical) movement of one toe (only one mind you, otherwise it could run away with itself and turn into a foot tap) - as long as you are wearing shoes or boots no one should be able to see this happening. Thereby negating the need for a PEL. However I strongly suggest that precautions be taken because this form of dancing can be very dangerous to the untrained and you could bruise your toe nail.

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