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08 Jan 03 - 11:14 AM (#861545) Subject: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Bobert Well, ya' can't say that Georgie-Porge ain't got a scruples, that's fir sure. Now that his so-cleed stuimulus package is here, other than a one year acceleration of the measly tax cuts for the working class, all the rest went to his rich friends. Yep, 49% of the dividend tax cut will go to the upper 1% of the population and the average saving for families with annual incomes of $1M will be a whopping $89,000. Dich Cheney will get approximately $100,000, as if he needs it. One of the major impacts will be in the cash starpped states and local governments that depend on revenues from these dividends and so you can bet that they will be cutting services like there's no tomorrow. Then take the bond market that localities us to finance schools. With the stock market getting this big loop-hole shot in the arm, you can bet that when communities borrow to build schools it's gonna cost us more to pay off those bonds because they will have to compete againt the stock market. Lastly, not only is this not a "stimulus package" in that it is not *demand side* but it is also not a short term adjustment like stimulus packages most always are. No, this is a perminent cash grab for the rich and guess who in the long run will be left holding the bag? Bobert |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:28 PM (#861642) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: artbrooks So...are you really surprised? |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:48 PM (#861669) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Bobert Well, not really. I am surprised that in light of the fact that Bush was not really elected, that he is brazen enough to not even put any window dressing on his heists. Now, if I had stolen the election I would have at leasy made a few attempts massauge the feelings of those from which I stole it. But, then again, I wouldn't have stolen the election. I guess that I should be de-sensitized to Bush's antics like way too many Americans have become but his utter arrogance in stealing things that don't friggin' belong to him, still bugs me. And why he would choose a course of action that is so pro-rich and so antil-working class after his last failed round of "cash grabs" for his friends is beyond logic... Finally, war should not be an "economic policy" and I think he thinks that a war with Iraq will get the economy going enough to compensate for the theivery and get his sorry butt re-selected. At some point in time, America is going to have to clean up behind this anti-human greedy adminsitration. Rant over, fir now... Bobert |
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08 Jan 03 - 02:46 PM (#861809) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: DougR Bobert: You would have disappointed me if you hadn't trotted out that tired old liberal argument that the "stimulus package is only for the rich!" Who, Bobert, do you think pays the majority of the taxes? The poor? DougR |
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08 Jan 03 - 02:54 PM (#861823) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Beccy I can't wait for the tax package to be passed. Why is everone afraid to admit that they'd like to be in charge of more of their own money? I look forward to being able to decide to whom my money goes and for what cause rather than having some bureaucrat make the decision for me. I'm thrilled (and I make well under fifty grand a year- so don't start in on me about how rich I must be...) |
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08 Jan 03 - 03:17 PM (#861841) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: GUEST I can't wait for the tax package to pass either, so we can watch all the government services be cut deep into the bone at both the state and federal levels. That'll teach everybody, now won't it? Why is everyone so afraid to admit that gutting all the government services in this country is going to be such a bad thing? Like Beccy says, it's all about HER getting to keep HER money, not the common good, the general welfare, and all that other communist crapola. |
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08 Jan 03 - 03:44 PM (#861870) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Bobert Beccy: Don't spend it all in one place. Jus funnin' with ya. So you got this big ol' stock portfolio making under $50,000 a year? Good on you, fir sure. I made 'bout that much last year and after paying $12,000 in taxes, paying my house payment, $800 a month for health insurance and clippin' coupons in order to ,eat, there weren't none left for the stock market. So I'm out. Sure, I'll get $300 back from Mr. Bush with "Dividend to the American Wroker" printed on the bottom which will go toward the timing belt that should have been replaced about 100,000 miles ago on my 13 year old Toyota. Yeah, I probably better represent the average shmo who after the smoke clears ain't gettin' jack... But you keep singin' that tune, my friend, but don't complain about the massave cuts in everything that ain't either a gun of someone with one. The average wait now in Northern Virginia at a DMV is 5 hours, if you're lucky. Welcome to Boss Hog's America. Doug: The folks that got all the money, Dougie. And if ya' know anyone in that category that wants to trade places, let me know. We can work something out. Bobert |
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08 Jan 03 - 03:45 PM (#861874) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Don Firth Well, Doug, let's look at the arithmetic. From various investments, I get about $80.00 a year in dividends. Because I had the bad judgment to devote my life to music rather than the more intelligent choice to become CEO of a multinational corporation, I didn't earn enough to invest more. Although I haven't actually checked the tax tables (I will, if you insist), I figure that my wife and my tax refund will increase by about $5.00 as a result of Bush's new refund. But then, my wife's hours at the library have been cut due to reductions in funding for such frivolous things as libraries. Now, if I were getting, say $80,000 a year in dividends, that tax reduction would be very nice indeed. Why is it that, no matter how I slice it, it still comes out a tax cut for the wealthy? Please explain. In detail. With facts and figures. Really, I'm open to being convinced. Don Firth |
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08 Jan 03 - 04:15 PM (#861911) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Bobert I'm with you, Don. Me and my Wes Ginny slide rule stayed up all last night workin' on this one and we both came up with the same corn-clusion: I'm screwed! The slide rule didn't pay no taxes so, while it's sypathetic, it ain't out nuthin. Yeah, Dougie, like I said. If any of them rich folks that you know want to change places with us working class folks, we're ready and willin. Just have 'em PM me and we'll arrange the transference of assests. Okay? Bobert |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:08 PM (#861958) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Don Firth Here's your chance to convert me, Doug. Don Firth |
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08 Jan 03 - 08:09 PM (#862112) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: GUEST Can someone prove to me that the rich pay most of the taxes? Considering how many average folks there are, against how many rich there are, I just don't believe it. Of course the poor pay little or no taxes, it's the middle class who pays most of them. Prove otherwise. Millions of people paying 15% pay a lot more in total than thousands of rich paying 30%. We outnumber them! |
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08 Jan 03 - 08:18 PM (#862121) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: GUEST It isn't true at all that the poor pay no taxes. There is no more regressive tax in the US than sales tax, paid equally by all, despite the poor having to pay the largest percent of their income in those taxes. And this from Molly Ivens' article "The Seriously Dumb Tax Cut": "According to Citizens for Tax Justice, the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers, those who make over $356,000 a year, will get almost 50 percent of the benefit of eliminating the tax on dividends and 45 percent of the money from accelerating the rate cuts. The 80 percent of the households making less than $73,000 a year would get less than 10 percent of the new tax breaks... The richest 1 percent have 18 percent of all the pretax income and they pay 36 percent of all personal income taxes. But one of the many disingenuous tricks with statistics you will see used by the Soak the Poor school is to ignore the rest of the tax burden. Most of us actually pay more in payroll taxes than we do in income taxes, but FICA taxes cut OFF at $87,000 -- you make more than that, you don't have to pay on the rest. And of course the sales tax is notoriously regressive -- rich families and poor families alike pay the same sales tax on a refrigerator, but it's a much bigger chunk of the income of the poor family. Despite all the screaming and yelling, the progressive income tax is the fairest form of taxation ever invented (unless you want to count the wealth tax used by most European countries). When Dwight Eisenhower left office, the highest marginal tax rate was 95 percent and no one thought Ike was a communist. It's now down to 38.6 percent and due to drop to 35 percent. For 70 years, the income tax has made at least part of the total tax picture here progressive, rather than regressive. It's not only unfair to change that, it's stupid." |
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09 Jan 03 - 04:50 AM (#862330) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Hrothgar Being just a simple clunk who works for the tax office, I still reckon the way to cut taxes is to keep increasing the amount that people get before they have to pay tax. That way Bill Gates gets the same tax cut as the street sweeper - and you get three guesses which one needs it more. Peace. |
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09 Jan 03 - 01:38 PM (#862829) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: Bobert Hrothgar: I think that's a great idea and probably workable. I would take it a step further in that for the working poor who are making the minimum wage that their incomes be subsidized up to that amount. I'm sure this country could run just fine if every family of four had a minumum of around $36,000 a year of either untaxed income or subsidized income. Like what's wrong with a guarenteed national income. Heck, right now we're paying close to $36,000 a year to incarcerate one person. Commie Bobert |
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09 Jan 03 - 07:26 PM (#863081) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: DougR Don: I'm not going to try to convince you of anything! I couldn't in the first place. Your mind is made up. I assume you will agree, however, that the rich folks pay the bulk of the taxes in this country. Why shouldn't they get a break too? They are citizens, they pay taxes, they should be treated fairly. And Beccy, I agree with you. Hang in there and don't let the naysayers beat you down. DougR |
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10 Jan 03 - 10:03 AM (#863458) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: GUEST Now, that was a blatant sidestep. |
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10 Jan 03 - 10:18 AM (#863471) Subject: RE: BS: Bush's 'Cash Grab' Stimulus Package From: DMcG DougR says the rich pay taxes, they should be treated fairly. I'm sure everyone agrees with that. Now all we have to do is agree on what we mean by 'fairly'! :-) |