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20 Jan 03 - 07:11 AM (#870388) Subject: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: GUEST,halley I'm looking for the words of this song I knew yonks ago. It has been suggested it was by Sydney Carter in 1957, but I'm not sure of this, though the time may well be right. |
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20 Jan 03 - 07:32 AM (#870406) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: McGrath of Harlow It was Sydney Carter and he would have written it around then. If no one else can find it, I could probably chase it down. It's based on a real headline - the people in charge of Epping Forest said they were tryi g to cull a white deer that had been spotted in the Forest, because it would screw up the genetic purity of the herd. Sydney used it as a dig at racism. I don't know what happened in the end to the deer. I was driving home last night through Epping Forest and I saw a deer standing by the side of the road, and it looked brown enough. |
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20 Jan 03 - 09:15 AM (#870483) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Bob Bolton G'day halley & McGrath, It is certainly by Sydney Carter ... and I have it here in one of the 5 books - currently available from Stainer and Bell. I won't post ... because S & B are becoming very anal retentive, now that Sydney's generous spirit is suppressed by Alzheimer's ... It seems they think that stopping people possessing "unauthorised" copies will help them gouge a few quid out of Flatley & co ... for use of a tune that Sydney freely admits he didn't write! (And, you are lucky it's not in the fifth book ... Galliard used to set the lyrics in 7-point type - S & B have set #5 in 5-point! I can read it, but very few of my friends can even realise that that grey patch is lyrics!) Regard(les)s, Bob Bolton |
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20 Jan 03 - 09:21 AM (#870488) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: McGrath of Harlow S & B and their ilk might be able to effectively stop songs being included in the Digital Tradition, but I don't think they can do anything about the Forum. Or of course the PMs. |
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20 Jan 03 - 10:45 AM (#870560) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: breezy i too have the worms If you come to one of my gigs I'll have them with me,just for you. Tonight I'm at the Staines folk club,the 3 Tuns 63 London road Staines, tomorrow the Blue Anchor, St Albans, Friday the Comfort Hotel St A for the folk Club. In the Forests of Epping the wild deer were black They'd all been that colour for centuries back Till into the woods came a deer that was white The keepers of Epping were shocked at the sight Ch:Here's luck to the buck, here's luck to the doe Through the Forest of Epping together they go. |
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20 Jan 03 - 11:02 AM (#870571) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: McGrath of Harlow I too have the worms. If you come to one of my gigs I'll have them with me, just for you. That's the best typo I've seen in years. |
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20 Jan 03 - 11:54 AM (#870615) Subject: Lyr Add: THE WHITE BUCK OF EPPING (Sidney Carter) From: vectis Definately written by Sidney Carter. THE WHITE BUCK OF EPPING CHORUS: Good luck to the buck, Good luck to the doe. Through the forest of Epping Together they go. In the forest of Epping the wild deer were black, They'd been that way for centuries back. 'Till into the wood came a buck that was white, The keepers of Epping were shocked at the sight. The does they all followed wherever he went So up to headquarters this message was sent "There's a white buck a'wandering where he should not." Back came the answer "The buck must be shot!" A fair forest maiden with hair that was red And a waist that was slim, to the keeper she said "Oh why must you shoot him? I don't think it fair, You can't kill a buck for the hue of his hair." "Oh! Your heart may be tender, your hair may be red, Your waist may be slender, my darling" He said "But the black and the white we must keep them apart Or they won't look the same as they did at the start. Please try to look at this matter more sanely I'll stalk him with care and I'll kill him humanely. You may think I'm hard-hearted but really I'm not, I'm an animal lover and a bloody good shot." They hunted him here and they hunted him there But they can't catch the buck with the wrong coloured hair. And if you go down to the forest today They're black and they're white and they're silvery grey. Your hair may be black or your hair may be white, There'll always be somebody shocked at the sight; But if you were the buck and I were the doe, Through the forest of Epping together we'd go. |
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20 Jan 03 - 08:21 PM (#870991) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: breezy Hey Mg'th you want to get out and about more. If Lanfranc can get to St Albans from Harlow this Friday! |
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20 Jan 03 - 08:27 PM (#870996) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Cluin Are you sure it was a typo? Perhaps he's just beginning some unknown new 12-step program. |
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21 Jan 03 - 05:01 AM (#871225) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: GUEST,halley Thanks to all of you. I'd love to come to one of your gigs, but it's a bit far to go from Gloucestershire. I was reminded of this, (which I hadn't heard for xxxx years) because a white stag has recently been sighted in the Forest of Dean, it's been quite a thing in the local papers. Not that anyone wants to cull it this time. |
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21 Jan 03 - 05:38 AM (#871249) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Lanfranc A little obiter dicta from another Essex (UK) Man. Despite Stansted Airport, there are still a number of herds of deer around the Uttlesford District, including one which for some years included an albino. As many of the local country lanes are old drove roads they are often below the level of the surrounding fields, and the deer have a habit of leaping on to the road unexpectedly. This led to the theory that the albino was a definite asset to the herd because it made them easier to avoid when driving the lanes at night, reducing the road kill level for that bunch of mobile venison at least.. I'd not come across this song before - time for a revival, methinks. I'll get the tune from Breezy on Friday. Alan |
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21 Jan 03 - 06:40 AM (#871294) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: breezy See! then change 'Uttlesford District' for the 'Forests of Epping' and then we have a song about integration of minorities that was ahead of its time being revived. Discuss Come early Lan, its a really hard tune to remember! |
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21 Jan 03 - 07:29 AM (#871316) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Ian I heard this song in the late 60s and it suddenly came to mind last August so I sang it ( my remembererd words )at Towersey. I got most of it right according to those shown. |
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28 Apr 04 - 08:03 PM (#1173628) Subject: Lyr Add: THE WHITE BUCK OF EPPING (Sydney Carter) From: Barbara I was recently sent this version, probably the original. It lacks a chorus, and the words are quite different. And I have a tune for it, to be posted shortly. Blessings, Barbara THE WHITE BUCK OF EPPING (by Sydney Carter copyright 1957) SYDNEY CARTER presents in words and music a 20th- century ballad based on a widely publicised arboreal crisis In the forest of Epping The wild deer are black. They've all been that colour For centuries back. But into the wood Came a buck that was white. Oh, the keepers of Epping Were shocked at the sight. Tally ho ! Tally ho The does, they all followed Wherever he went. So up to headquarters A message was sent "There's a white buck a-wandering Where he should not. And back came the answer: "The buck must be shot." Tally ho ! Tally ho A fair forest maid with a heart that was tender And hair that was red And a waist that was slender Said, "Why should they shoot him? I don't think it fair! You can't blame a buck For the hue of his hair." Tally ho! Tally ho! Up spake a colonel, And he was a verderer "Madam, I'm sorry You think I'm a murderer. This is a back herd And black it must stay. Oh, the buck must be shot If he won't go away Tally ho! Tally ho! "Please try to look at The matter more sanely. I'll stalk him with care And I'll kill him humanely. You think I'm bloodthirsty, But really, I'm not. I'm an animal lover And a jolly good shot." Tally ho! Tally ho! The good Duke of Bedford Said, "If you can catch him, In my herd at Woburn I think I can match him. He's welcome to Woburn, And no one will shoot. As long as he's healthy I don't care a hoot." Tally ho! Tally ho! The white buck of Epping Got into the papers And even the TeIly reported his capers. Men came to take pictures, But not many got 'em; And England was split from The top to the bottom. Tally ho! Tally ho! This is a story That isn't yet over. From Duncansbay Head To the white cliffs of Dover All eyes are on Epping They're wishing good luck To the colonel? Well, maybe, But I'm for the buck Tally ho! Tally ho! My source for this, Henry Peacock, said: Derrick Holder was kind enough to send me this copy from a magazine published by, I think, the Friends of Epping Forest. It may not be the version that you know but it does appear to be the original. I expect that it will still be under copyright. And, "In the Forest of Epping the wild deer are black, they've all been that colour for centuries back", we are told in a song attributed to Sydney Carter, published in the Tatler and Bystander, September 4th, 1957. The song goes on to tell us about a white buck that had strayed into the Forest. It seems that, in spite of the pleading of "a fair forest maid", a colonel "and he was a verderer" insisted, that the deer must be shot, and the herd must remain black. However, "The good Duke of Bedford" was prepared to take the unfortunate animal to Woburn, but we are not told the outcome to this tale. Does anyone out there know who the colonel was, and the fair forest maid, and what eventually happened to the buck. In any event, this surely is an interesting account of an animal right activist at work!" Click to play |
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28 Apr 04 - 08:49 PM (#1173652) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Cattail This is listed, (on the sleeve but not on the album label),as being on the album "Sydney Carter and Jeremy Taylor at Eton". On the Fontana label, 1967. I'm not sure that it's actually on there though,(and I can't play it at this time of night), as I also have it on an album by the Four Folk, a Manchester (UK) group, who were around in the sixties. Ah happy days, (says he, regressing quietly into the memory banks). Cheers for now Cattail ! |
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29 Apr 04 - 04:53 AM (#1173861) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: MikeofNorthumbria A word of warning! Nadia Cattouse - a charming lady - used to sing this song back in the '60s. When introducing it, she always cautioned the audience to take care with the chorus. "Good luck to the buck, good luck to the doe, Through the forest of Epping together we'll go" is fine, but "Good luck to the doe, good luck to the buck, Through the forest of Epping together we'll ..." may cause someone embarrassment. Wassail! |
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29 Apr 04 - 12:34 PM (#1174145) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Barbara Does anyone have a tune for the version with chorus? The one I posted here has only "Tally ho! Tally ho!" so there must be more someplace. I am also curious if the original tune (I think) as posted is close to the later versions. You can hear the tune from the Friends of Epping newsletter (1957) by clicking on the Mudcat Midi link at the top of the page, or click here: White Buck of Epping. Blessings, Barbara |
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30 Apr 04 - 09:10 AM (#1174907) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Bob Bolton G'day Barbara, Interestingly, this seems not to be in any of the five Songs of Sydney Carter - In the present tense Galliard / Stainer & Bell song books (or else it's too late at night for me to be trying to scan the contents pages!). If I do find it, I'll post a MIDI ... in the now unsupported MIDItext form Alan of Australia develkoped for the Mudcat ... otherwise, I'm no help. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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01 May 04 - 01:00 AM (#1175580) Subject: Tune Add: THE WHITE BUCK OF EPPING (Sydney Carter) From: Bob Bolton G'day Again Barbara, I had a good listen to my LP of this (words, love, music sydney carter, MS 3003 Move Records, Melbourne, Australia (c. 1967?). I compared the tune with the MIDI you linked - and there are some changes, not just where the new chorus fits. I have added the tune in the old MIDItext application Alan supplied ("No longer supported by Mudcat"?) but you may have the app ... or be able to decode it from the ABC component. I can send my MIDI to MMario by e-mail ... or to you, if I have your e-mail. BTW: I changed the key signature - but not the notes, where they don't change between versions. The MIDI comes up in my music app. as key of C ... and goes from C to upper C - but the melody is tructured in F. With the new chorus, it ends on F - so the older version was unresolved (or 'modal' .. or ... ?). There are some very minor changes in the words ... Sydney probably sang them differently each time (his poetry book is called Nothing Fixed or Final!)
This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here
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01 May 04 - 01:11 AM (#1175587) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The White Buck of Epping From: Barbara Thank you so much, Bob. I'll PM you my email, but I may be able to make it play from what you provided. I do have Alan's program someplace, but I didn't get it installed correctly on this machine. But I'll work it out. The tune that was originally shipped to me was written in C not F, but, looking at it seemed like it was really in F, so I changed it. But it could be modal. Blessings, Barbara |
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01 May 04 - 09:06 AM (#1175739) Subject: Tune Add: THE WHITE BUCK OF EPPING (Sydney Carter) From: Bob Bolton G'day Barbara, I have also replied to your PM. I discovered that I was a bit too mmuch influenced by the first set of dots (from the MIDI) - and I have revised it a little ... to match my hearing of Sydney's singing, which may well be a lot different from what he sang a decade before. Here is my revised version:
This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here
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