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23 Jan 03 - 06:12 PM (#873263) Subject: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,leeneia Today I'm working on a cantiga, a song in about the Virgin Mary from 13th-century Spain. Here's what is written above the song. Would someone who speaks Spanish please tell me what it means? "Como Santa Maria levou a alma d'un frade que pintou o seu nome de tres coores" Thanks. |
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23 Jan 03 - 06:27 PM (#873273) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Well, it looks like the Babelfish translation kicks back on a few of the words. Like Santa Maria levou to soul d'un frade that pintou or seu nome of three you copray |
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23 Jan 03 - 06:36 PM (#873279) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,ClaireBear I recalled that cantigas are often in Portuguese, so I tried that translation and it did only a little better: As Saint Maria d'un took the soul frade that it painted its name of tres coores Good luck with the rest! |
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23 Jan 03 - 06:44 PM (#873291) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,leeneia I'm not even sure it's Spanish. |
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23 Jan 03 - 06:45 PM (#873294) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,Taunus As the Holly Mary raised the soul of a priest that painted her name in three colours... Taunus. |
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23 Jan 03 - 07:08 PM (#873318) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: Allan C. Yep, Taunus has it right. |
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23 Jan 03 - 10:53 PM (#873514) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,leeneia Thank you, Taunus. Now that you've translated it, I can see the relationships. I suppose that "coores" was supposed to be "colores." |
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23 Jan 03 - 11:15 PM (#873520) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: Sorcha And Taunus' "Holly" should be "Holy"....... |
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24 Jan 03 - 04:11 AM (#873594) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: open mike or else she was drinking coors |
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24 Jan 03 - 05:37 AM (#873627) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: leprechaun That looks more like Portuguese to me, unless it's an earlier form of Spanish. Olde Spanish? |
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24 Jan 03 - 08:38 AM (#873706) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: artbrooks If it's 13th Century, it could be any of a number of vernaculars (proto-Portuguese, Galician, Cantabrian, Catalonian, Castilian, etc), none of which are exactly "Spanish." |
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24 Jan 03 - 08:45 PM (#874303) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,leeneia Now, Sorcha, we all knew that holly should be holy. It's no big deal. The quotation above isn't from the cantiga itself, it is an explanatory line written above the cantiga to tell what it is about. I'm sure it's in some modern language. I wish there was a way that I could easily share music with fellow mudcatters. I have put the music into Noteworthy and have added drones and chords. My husband reached for a drum while I was still working it out at the piano. I got it from a Spaniard at the early music workshop in Magdalena, New Mexico. Here are a few words from the text: A que por muygran fremosura este chamada Fror das frores, mut mais lie praz quando lle loam seu nome que d'outras loores. I guess if they can have the word "loores" they can have the word "coores." Perhaps they based their paints on beer in the olden days. Or maybe it's early German. Isn't "das" German for "the"? :) |
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24 Jan 03 - 11:10 PM (#874385) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: Allan C. "das" is has evolved from the contraction of two words, "de" and "as" which are "of" and "the" (pl, f). The quotation in your first post is, as far as my limited knowledge of Portuguese can attest, current-day Portuguese. I feel sure that the other one is from a more ancient form. A guess at some of the first part is that "r"'s are sometimes used instead of "l"'s. Thus, "este chamada Fror das frores" becomes, "este chamada Flor das flores" or "it is (or possibly you are) called Flower of flowers". |
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24 Jan 03 - 11:34 PM (#874409) Subject: RE: Help with Spanish translation From: GUEST,Q Some Old Timers in New Mexico can still speak some of the medieval Spanish of their far distant immigrant ancestors, as leeneia probably can attest. I have one cd of these old cantigas, but wouldn't attempt translation without knowledgeable help. Some have Galician influences, others are Asturian, Catalan, Euskari etc. (noted by Artbrooks, above). The intricacies of Spanish medieval religion (Catholicism in Europe at that time not as uniform as it is today) will affect the translation as well. Far different from modern Spanish. (Just remember your struggles with Chaucer in school). Some of the cds put out by Alia Vox have translations. |