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31 messages

Lyr Req: White, Orange and Green

15 Jul 98 - 04:28 PM (#32602)
Subject: Rainbow over the hill
From:


15 Jul 98 - 07:10 PM (#32617)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Mick Lowe

I'm I being pyschie here or is this a request about an Irish song/tune?


19 Jul 98 - 10:00 PM (#32943)
Subject: Lyr Add: WHITE, ORANGE AND GREEN (from Spailpin)
From: belter

I've transcribed this from an alubm called Whiskey In The Jar From Ireland. put out by Delta Music Inc. 1989 I'm missing the cover, so there's no telling what liner notes I may be missing out on. The album is a compolation of two groups, SPAILPIN and THE DUBLIN RAMBLERS. Wight, Orange and Green performed by Spailpin.

WHITE, ORANGE AND GREEN

In the bold ?Gaughty? mountains so far far away
I'll tell you a story that happened one day
About a young girl her age was sixteen
And she carried a banner white orange and green

Now a young English soldier was passing that way
And he spied the young girl and her banner so gay
He laughed and he joked and got off his machine
Returning to capture white orange and green

You can't have my banner the young girl replied
Till your blood and mine on the bold gaught is lied
For I am a rebel and that's nothing mean
And I'd lay down my life for white orange and green

Well the young English soldier turned white as the snow
Got on his machine and away he did go
For there's no use in fighting a girl of sixteen
Who would die for a banner white orange and green


20 Jul 98 - 04:28 AM (#32978)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Brack&

Belter, that might be Galtee mountains. What's the tune though?

Mick


20 Jul 98 - 05:49 PM (#33017)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: belter

I don't have any music for it, sorry. The only hint I have is that in parentheses next to the title it says (Tabhair dom do La'mh) Could that be a galic title to the air, or is it just white orange an green in galic?

I'm always wondering about that one word. Thanks for the info.


21 Jul 98 - 12:53 AM (#33039)
Subject: Tune Add: TABHAIR DOM DO LAMH / GIVE ME YOUR HAND
From: alison

Hi,

It translates as "Give me your hand" which is a lovely slow air.

And as luck would have it..... here's the tune... I don't know that it scans very well though.

MIDI file: GIVEME.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: TABHAIR DOM DO LAMH
TimeSig: 3/4 24 8
Key: G
Tempo: 160 (375000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0960 1 62 050 0478 0 62 050 0002 1 64 057 0478 0 64 057 0002 1 67 057 0478 0 67 057 0002 1 67 046 0478 0 67 046 0002 1 67 044 0958 0 67 044 0002 1 62 036 0478 0 62 036 0002 1 64 038 0478 0 64 038 0002 1 67 033 0478 0 67 033 0002 1 67 042 0478 0 67 042 0002 1 67 042 0958 0 67 042 0002 1 62 030 0478 0 62 030 0002 1 64 054 0478 0 64 054 0002 1 67 043 0478 0 67 043 0002 1 67 040 0478 0 67 040 0002 1 67 044 0478 0 67 044 0002 1 69 048 0478 0 69 048 0002 1 71 049 0478 0 71 049 0002 1 71 030 0478 0 71 030 0002 1 76 053 0478 0 76 053 0002 1 74 036 0478 0 74 036 0002 1 71 041 0958 0 71 041 0002 1 69 042 0238 0 69 042 0002 1 67 041 0238 0 67 041 0002 1 69 046 0478 0 69 046 0002 1 69 050 0478 0 69 050 0002 1 76 036 0238 0 76 036 0002 1 74 037 0238 0 74 037 0002 1 71 038 0478 0 71 038 0002 1 71 054 0478 0 71 054 0002 1 74 037 0238 0 74 037 0002 1 71 030 0238 0 71 030 0002 1 69 044 0718 0 69 044 0002 1 71 042 0238 0 71 042 0002 1 69 033 0238 0 69 033 0002 1 67 032 0238 0 67 032 0002 1 64 041 0958 0 64 041 0002 1 62 037 0478 0 62 037 0002 1 64 043 0478 0 64 043 0002 1 67 043 0478 0 67 043 0002 1 67 040 0478 0 67 040 0002 1 67 042 0958 0 67 042 0002 1 62 044 0478 0 62 044 0002 1 64 038 0478 0 64 038 0002 1 67 048 0478 0 67 048 0002 1 67 046 0478 0 67 046 0002 1 67 044 0958 0 67 044 0002 1 62 040 0478 0 62 040 0002 1 64 040 0478 0 64 040 0002 1 67 035 0478 0 67 035 0002 1 67 053 0478 0 67 053 0002 1 67 025 0478 0 67 025 0002 1 69 037 0478 0 69 037 0002 1 71 041 0424 1 62 030 0036 0 71 041 0738 0 62 030 0002 1 71 041 0238 0 71 041 0002 1 69 040 0238 0 69 040 0002 1 71 045 0238 0 71 045 0002 1 67 038 0958 0 67 038 0002 1 62 032 0478 0 62 032 0002 1 64 038 0478 0 64 038 0002 1 67 032 0478 0 67 032 0002 1 67 042 0478 0 67 042 0002 1 67 037 0478 0 67 037 0002 1 69 046 0478 0 69 046 0002 1 71 029 0478 0 71 029 0002 1 71 043 0478 0 71 043 0002 1 76 044 0478 0 76 044 0002 1 74 038 0478 0 74 038 0002 1 71 043 0958 0 71 043 0002 1 69 034 0238 0 69 034 0002 1 67 038 0238 0 67 038 0002 1 69 044 0478 0 69 044 0002 1 69 042 0478 0 69 042 0002 1 76 043 0238 0 76 043 0002 1 74 030 0238 0 74 030 0002 1 71 050 0478 0 71 050 0002 1 71 049 0478 0 71 049 0002 1 74 044 0238 0 74 044 0002 1 71 036 0238 0 71 036 0002 1 69 040 0958 0 69 040 0002 1 71 041 0238 0 71 041 0002 1 74 037 0238 0 74 037 0002 1 76 019 0958 0 76 019 0002 1 74 044 0238 0 74 044 0002 1 71 029 0238 0 71 029 0002 1 74 042 0478 0 74 042 0002 1 74 032 0478 0 74 032 0002 1 76 044 0478 0 76 044 0002 1 79 043 0958 0 79 043 0002 1 76 038 0238 0 76 038 0002 1 74 034 0238 0 74 034 0002 1 76 042 0478 0 76 042 0002 1 76 044 0478 0 76 044 0002 1 79 040 0478 0 79 040 0002 1 81 033 0958 0 81 033 0002 1 79 042 0238 0 79 042 0002 1 76 030 0238 0 76 030 0002 1 79 036 0478 0 79 036 0002 1 79 033 0478 0 79 033 0002 1 74 033 0238 0 74 033 0002 1 76 029 0238 0 76 029 0002 1 79 031 0478 0 79 031 0002 1 79 036 0478 0 79 036 0002 1 74 031 0238 0 74 031 0002 1 76 029 0238 0 76 029 0002 1 79 041 0478 0 79 041 0002 1 79 035 0478 0 79 035 0002 1 81 040 0478 0 81 040 0002 1 83 042 1438 0 83 042 0002 1 83 048 0478 0 83 048 0002 1 83 035 0478 0 83 035 0002 1 83 044 0478 0 83 044 0002 1 83 041 0958 0 83 041 0002 1 81 042 0238 0 81 042 0002 1 79 029 0238 0 79 029 0002 1 81 046 0478 0 81 046 0002 1 81 038 0238 0 81 038 0002 1 79 025 0238 0 79 025 0002 1 81 032 0238 0 81 032 0002 1 83 034 0238 0 83 034 0002 1 81 040 0958 0 81 040 0002 1 79 034 0238 0 79 034 0002 1 78 025 0238 0 78 025 0002 1 76 032 0478 0 76 032 0002 1 76 042 0478 0 76 042 0002 1 79 037 0238 0 79 037 0002 1 76 026 0238 0 76 026 0002 1 74 031 0478 0 74 031 0002 1 74 029 0478 0 74 029 0002 1 76 027 0238 0 76 027 0002 1 74 022 0238 0 74 022 0002 1 71 036 0478 0 71 036 0002 1 71 036 0478 0 71 036 0002 1 74 027 0238 0 74 027 0002 1 71 029 0238 0 71 029 0002 1 69 044 0958 0 69 044 0002 1 71 034 0238 0 71 034 0002 1 69 035 0238 0 69 035 0002 1 67 044 0478 0 67 044 0002 1 71 043 0478 0 71 043 0002 1 74 034 0478 0 74 034 0002 1 77 038 0958 0 77 038 0002 1 76 030 0238 0 76 030 0002 1 74 033 0238 0 74 033 0002 1 76 034 0478 0 76 034 0002 1 76 036 0478 0 76 036 0002 1 79 020 0478 0 79 020 0002 1 76 032 0958 0 76 032 0002 1 74 030 0238 0 74 030 0002 1 71 031 0238 0 71 031 0002 1 74 041 0478 0 74 041 0002 1 74 040 0478 0 74 040 0002 1 76 037 0238 0 76 037 0002 1 74 041 0238 0 74 041 0002 1 71 041 0478 0 71 041 0002 1 71 040 0478 0 71 040 0002 1 74 038 0238 0 74 038 0002 1 71 032 0238 0 71 032 0002 1 69 038 0718 0 69 038 0002 1 72 042 0238 0 72 042 0002 1 71 043 0238 0 71 043 0002 1 69 030 0238 0 69 030 0002 1 67 044 0958 0 67 044 0002 1 62 043 0478 0 62 043 0002 1 64 042 0478 0 64 042 0002 1 67 037 0478 0 67 037 0002 1 67 033 0478 0 67 033 0002 1 67 043 0958 0 67 043 0002 1 62 040 0478 0 62 040 0002 1 64 042 0478 0 64 042 0002 1 67 041 0478 0 67 041 0002 1 67 036 0478 0 67 036 0002 1 67 041 0958 0 67 041
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:TABHAIR DOM DO LAMH
M:3/4
Q:1/4=160
K:G
D6|E2G2G2|G4D2|E2G2G2|G4D2|E2G2G2|G2A2B2|
B2e2d2|B4AG|A2A2ed|B2B2dB|A3BAG|E4D2|E2G2G2|
G4D2|E2G2G2|G4D2|E2G2G2|G2A2B7/4D/4|-D3BAB|
G4D2|E2G2G2|G2A2B2|B2e2d2|B4AG|A2A2ed|B2B2dB|
A4Bd|e4dB|d2d2e2|g4ed|e2e2g2|a4ge|g2g2de|
g2g2de|g2g2a2|b6|b2b2b2|b4ag|a2agab|a4gf|
e2e2ge|d2d2ed|B2B2dB|A4BA|G2B2d2|=f4ed|e2e2g2|
e4dB|d2d2ed|B2B2dB|A3cBA|G4D2|E2G2G2|G4D2|
E2G2G2|G6||

Slainte

Alison


21 Jul 98 - 10:50 AM (#33063)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Bo

Belter, if its any consolation I have the CD myself and the Album Notes are basically non-existant, you're not missing anything.

Bo

Thanks for the transcription.


22 Jul 98 - 03:01 AM (#33117)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: AndreasW

As far as I remember there was another verse about the girl coming into town next day because her friend (or was it the soldier?) was killed fighting for Ireland.
Am I correct, or is old age setting in ?
Andreas


28 Jul 98 - 03:24 AM (#33529)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Wolfgang Hell

Andreas, in the version I know the last two verses are quite different and one is similar to what you quote. It's a pity I do not understand the central bit of that verse. Should I post the rest anyway?

Wolfgang


28 Jul 98 - 05:29 PM (#33571)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: belter

I wouldn't mind getting the additional verses.

By the way, I've thought of the version I know as a comment on the pointlessness of all the killing. Does anyone interpret this song differently?


28 Jul 98 - 05:42 PM (#33575)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Mick Lowe

Belter,
It's a pitty all these types of songs aren't about the pointlessness of killing. At the end of the day what's more important? Religion, a lump of land or human lfe?
Mick
p.s. I know I am fortunate enough not have been subjugated for any reason be it religious or political and I empathise with those that have. But still there must be other ways of proving your point than taking innocent lives.


29 Jul 98 - 02:33 AM (#33606)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: AndreasW

Hi Wolfgang,
Yes, please post it. It will help me (and perhaps others) to remember the rest.
Thanks in advance
Andreas


04 Aug 98 - 03:29 AM (#34044)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Wolfgang

I'll post it next week


09 Aug 98 - 08:58 AM (#34504)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: David

I think if you're looking for a song about the pointlessness of killing, perhaps that would be "And There Were Roses." But "White Orange and Green" is clearly a song of Irish patriotism and hence Irish Republicanism. The English soldier decides to harass this girl who is flying the Tricolour (which would have been quite illegal in older days) and she responds that if he wants the flag then he must fight her for it. "there's no use in fighting a girl of sixteen, who would die for a banner white, orange, and green" is not meant to say that fighting is pointless but rather that the British holding onto their rule in Ireland is pointless, because there will always be even the most unlikely of rebels (a girl of 16) who will be willing to die for their country. That has always been my interpretation, but i would love to hear the "missing" verse.


09 Aug 98 - 06:45 PM (#34526)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Pete M

David,

yes I agree, that is how I have interpreted the song. One could argue that the song makes the point that all the while there are "girls of 16" who are prepared to fight and kill / be lilled in order to impose their particular "ism" on the remainder of the population there will never be an end to pointless killing; but I strongly suspect that that was not the intention of the writer.

Pete M


09 Aug 98 - 08:43 PM (#34544)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Brack&

Spot on David


09 Aug 98 - 10:22 PM (#34549)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAN HE KILLED (Thomas Hardy)
From: BSeed

I don't know if anyone ever set this to music: It's by A. E. Houseman, I think. If not, by Thomas Hardy.

THE MAN HE KILLED

Had he and I but met
At some old ancient inn,
We might have sat us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin.

But ranged as infantry
And standing face to face,
I shot at him, as he at me,
And killed him in his place.

I shot him dead because--
Because he was my foe.
That's so: my foe, of course he was,
That's clear enough, although

He thought he'd 'list perhaps
Off-hand, like, just as I--
Had sold his traps, was out of work,
No other reason why.

Oh, quaint and curious war is:
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat if met where any bar is,
Or help to half a crown.


And if killing another soldier is absurd, then killing someone who is not a threat to you is absurd to the nth, depraved. ---seed


10 Aug 98 - 02:44 AM (#34564)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: leprechaun

Apparently that particular soldier opted not to be a threat to her. If you want to eliminate all the Irish songs about revolution and violence, you're going to miss out on a lot of good music. Or you could just spend the next hundred years or so rewriting them so they don't offend anybody.


10 Aug 98 - 10:36 AM (#34586)
Subject: Lyr Add: WHITE, ORANGE AND GREEN
From: Wolfgang

This is the version of White, Orange and Green I have on a CD called "50 complete Irish rebel songs". The first two verses are quite similar to the version posted above with "maiden" replacing "girl", "British" "English" and so on. I start my version with the last line of verse 2:

2...and he tried for to capture the flag of Sinn Fein.

3. "You'll not get these colours, the fair maiden said,
you'll not get these colours until I am dead."
"What's the use, said the soldier, when a maid of sixteen
will lay down her life for White, Orange, and Green."

4. T'was early next morning in Tipperary town,
from the gay Galtee mountains the young maid came down,
she was sick in her heart, it was plain to be seen,
for that day did (her march??) give his life for Sinn Fein.

(I have no idea what to put in the parentheses in the last line; I have put there two words that sound similar to what they sing, but I don't even know whether it's one words or two)

Wolfgang


10 Aug 98 - 03:46 PM (#34620)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: BSeed

Leprechaun: I said "killing [the innocent]," not singing about killing, is depraved. I sing many songs about murder--but none advocating it.
I read somewhere that early in World War II, British and American military strategists debated whether bombing of non-military targets was justifiable. The answer they arrived at, unfortunately, was that it was (kind of like Sherman's March through Georgia in the US Civil War), and as a result the Allies adopted terror bombing as a tactic (the Nazis had done so as early as the Spanish Civil War, of course), and by the end of the war perpetrated such atrocities as the fire bombing of Dresden. The US went on to the atomic bomb, and from there to such things as the continued genocidal sanctions against Iraq. --seed


05 Aug 00 - 02:31 PM (#271937)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: GUEST,RECILDUDLEY@HOTMAIL.COM

THIS IS A GREAT SONG AND I AM HAPPY TO SEE SO MUCH INTREST IN IT, IF ANY ONE HAS THE CHORDS THAT IT IS REALLY DONE IN PLEASE POST THEM. ORANGE OR GREEN DOES NOT MATTER, PEOPLE ARE ALL THAT MATTER. FRIENDSHIP, LOYALTY, LOVE.

RECIL


05 Aug 00 - 02:59 PM (#271950)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE GALTEE MOR MOUNTAINS or GALTEEMORE
From: Jimmy C

This song is called "THE GALTEE MOR MOUNTAINS" or GALTEEMORE. It has been recorded by many people throughout the years. See some notes below regarding the fairly recent version by the Grehan Sisters.

I first heard this song about 1950. Here are the words as I learned them.

In the Galtee Mor Mountains not far far away
I'll tell you a story that happened one day
To a young Irish Colleen whose age was sixteen
And she hoisted her banner, white, orange and green.

A young British Soldier was passing that way
He spied the young maid with their colours so gay
He cursed and he swore, he jumped off his machine
Determined to capture the flag of Sinn Fein

You shan't have these colours the young maiden cried
Or your blood or mine down this valley will ride
For I have a rifle and that's nothing mean
And I'll lay down my life for the flag of Sinn Fein

The young British soldier turned white as the snow
Jumped on his machine and away he did go
For there's no use in fighting a maid of sixteen
Who would lay down her life for her flag of Sinn Fein

Early next morning near Tipperary town
I saw the young maid from the Galtees come down
Her heart it was torn, 'twas plain to be seen
For that morning Tom Ashe gave his life for Sinn Fein

NOTES

I imagine the song has been added to through the years. The last verse of the Grehan Recording that starts:

So young men and maidens from Erin's green shore
Raise a cheer for the maid from the broad Galtee Mor
etc may be an additional verse that has been added to the original.

Also the reference to Tom Ashe in the last verse above has been changed to "Mick Keane", my guess would be that Mick Keane was a victim of the recent troubles and as such became part of these additions or changes.

The British soldier has also became an English Bobby. The Grehan's version has an extra 3rd verse about the Bobby demanding the emblem.

Many changes - but that's folk music for you, it happens a lot and I hope it always will. As far as the pointlessness of killing I agree wholeheartedly.

The meaning of the song is quite simple as far as I know. The Irish were for many years not permitted to be Irish. The young girl is carrying the flag of Ireland in Ireland and a British soldier tried to take it off her. She simply is saying enough is enough, try to take this and one of us will die. Period.

Slainte

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 13-Jun-02.


06 Aug 00 - 04:59 AM (#272246)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Liz the Squeak

It isn't Thomas Hardy - he never fired a gun in anger in his life (he considered himself "above" those things like patriotism or duty, because he was too busy being mean and melancholy and getting depressed when they said he couldn't marry his cousin and his books were immoral.... Besides, it's too short, Hardy would never use one word where 26 would do.....).

Anyone got the words for 'There were roses'?

LTS


06 Aug 00 - 05:05 AM (#272249)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Brendy

Here you go, Liz.

B.


26 Apr 05 - 11:42 AM (#1471271)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: GUEST,guest

Well, this thread seems to be older, but it helped me much to find the Lyrics so I'll post the Chords here, whitch I think, are right. maybe a bit simple :) . I took the first lyricversion, because I know it in this way, too:
       A               fis    D       A
In the bold Galtee mountains so far far away
      A          fis       D            E
I'll tell you a story that happened one day
A             fis    D          E
About a young girl her age was sixteen
       A         fis          D          A      
And she carried a banner white orange and green

Now a young English soldier was passing that way
And he spied the young girl and her banner so gay
He laughed and he joked and got off his machine
Returning to capture white orange and green

You can't have my banner the young girl replied
Till your blood and mine on the bold gaught is lied
For I am a rebel and that's nothing mean
And I'd lay down my life for white orange and green


Well the young English soldier turned white as the snow
Got on his machine and away he did go
For there's no use in fighting a girl of sixteen
Who would die for a banner white orange and green


11 Mar 06 - 02:46 PM (#1690725)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: GUEST,Giulia

Well I finished casually here, looking for the text of a song I had heard and liked... and I'm not Irish and I didn't know was a patriotic song. But what I think is that the text is beautiful and moving. In my interpretation the sense is that for the powerful British to keep their rule on a little poor country as Ireland is really not that important, something you can "laugh" and "joke" about. While for the Irish is a matter of liberty and dignity, at the point that even young girls are ready to die for that. And the soldier understand and so he choose to go away. It means that if powerful nations learn to respect the rights of weak people bloodshed can be spared and I don't see how a song like that could be seen as encouraging terrorism or war.


12 Mar 06 - 01:04 AM (#1691018)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: GUEST,thurg

Re: The Man He Killed, which somehow came up in this thread - it is by Thomas Hardy (whatever certain people may think of him!)


12 Mar 06 - 08:12 AM (#1691135)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Jim I

As to the tune it is not "Give me your Hand" which is, as Alison points out, "a lovely slow air".

It is in fact the old English tune "Villikins and his Dinah" used over the years to a large number of songs. The Scottish song "The Wee Magic Stane" springs to mind. It is in the DT although I couldn't get the midi to play.


12 Mar 06 - 02:04 PM (#1691348)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Declan

I have my doubts that the 'Tom Ashe' bit was part of the original song.

To the best of my knowledge Tom Ashe died in a raid in a place in Couty Meath now known as Ashebourne. This happened during the Easter Rising in 1916.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the first time the green white and orange flag ("The flag of Sinn Fein") was unfurled was during the rising also. If this is the case I doubt if a sixteen year old girl in Tipp would have had one to wear. I am open to correction on any of this.

There seems to be a big leap between the soldier riding off on his machine and the girl hearing of the death. I think the verse was added in later for political effect. Of course its also a possibility that the original line was Tomás which is simply the Gaelic for Thomas - could have been a local person in Tipperary. I'm not aware of any links between Tom Ashe and Tipperary.


12 Mar 06 - 02:16 PM (#1691356)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Declan

Just Googled Tom Ashe and got some extra information.

He survived the battle in Ashbourne and was imprisoned. He was involved in a hunger strike in Mountjoy prison. Attempts were made ti force feed the prisoners and Tomn Ashe was taken to a nearby hospital where he died in September 1917. So there may be a possibility that the flag was being used in all parts of the coutry by then.

Found nothing other than the song to link Tom Ashe to Tipperary. He was apparently born in Kerry and educated in Waterford.


12 Mar 06 - 02:20 PM (#1691359)
Subject: RE: White, orange and green
From: Jim I

I got to wondering why this song should be associated with "Give me Your Hand" so I dug out the tape I have it on. Like Belter above I can't find the cover but I think it's the same tape as his.

Anyway the tune "Give Me Your Hand" follows on from "White Orange and Green" as part of the same set. Quite appropriate really as the last 5 notes of the song are the same as the first 5 of the tune.