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06 Mar 03 - 06:19 PM (#905158) Subject: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: katlaughing Tom DeLay, House Majority Leader is not happy about a US Circuit COurt of Appeals' court ruling last week which upheld a lower court ruling saying the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because of the words "under God." A young girl's father brought the suit saying she should not be forced to recite those words in school because they are atheists. The courts agreed. Last week Ashcroft spouted some crap about "preserving the rights of all US citizens to recite the Pledge of Allegiance" and vowed that the Justice Dept. would do all in its power to do so. Of course, there was no ruling stating that the right to "Pledge" had been infringed upon. Now, DeLay is threatening the US Supreme Court with congressional action which would remove jurisdiction over this case unless the Supremes reverse the ruling! You can read about it here. Just another assault on our freedoms...fiddling while they burn Rome. These idiots have got to be stopped! This is the same kind of to-do they spouted over the prayer in classroom issue; no one was ever denied the right to pray, it just couldn't be forced or formalised by school officials. Another letter to right to congresspeople! Thanks, kat |
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06 Mar 03 - 06:23 PM (#905160) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: katlaughing Here's the opening paragraph. Notice how they mischaracterise the ruling, saying that children will be forbidden to recite the Pledge. My understanding is that it allows children to opt out of reciting it: Congress could remove federal courts' jurisdiction to rule on the Pledge of Allegiance if the Supreme Court doesn't overturn an appeals court decision that bars children from reciting the Pledge in school, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay said yesterday. |
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06 Mar 03 - 06:48 PM (#905178) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: mack/misophist All Americans have the right to recite the pledge of allegiance. But no one has the right to require another to say,'under god' when doing so. |
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06 Mar 03 - 07:24 PM (#905203) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: CarolC Wouldn't it have been nice if someone had done that to the Supreme Court during the fiasco we call the "last presidential election"? I'd love to see the look on DeLay's face (and others who hold the same position about forcing children to recite the pledge of allegiance) if he found out that the pledge was written by a socialist. |
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06 Mar 03 - 07:31 PM (#905209) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: McGrath of Harlow I imagine if Saddam Hussein has some equivalent of a Pledge of Allegiance that every child is required to recite, that would rightly be chalked up as yet another repressive feature of his regime. |
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06 Mar 03 - 07:38 PM (#905215) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: Jack the Sailor I think the solution to this is clear. The words "under God" were added in 1954. Just remove them in 2003. |
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06 Mar 03 - 07:41 PM (#905217) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: katlaughing Fat chance of that happening with this regime in charge, Jack. I wish it could be so easy.:-) |
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06 Mar 03 - 08:32 PM (#905242) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: NicoleC Actually, said student was not being forced to say it. She could choose not to say it while everyone else did. And as a kid who went through that as a Jehovah's Witness, I can tell you it's BRUTAL for kids to have to constantly explain why they aren't saying the pledge, and it makes you an object of morning derision every day. It's not being forced, but it IS coersion. What the court ruled was that the inclusion of the words "under God" made it a school-sanctioned religious activity. Whereas it's legal for students to pray, etc. on their own, and legal to hold after-hours Bible studies, etc., making it part of the daily class routine WAS an unconstitutional breach of the separation of church as state. Although the schools are not required to comply with the ruling until the appeal is settled, schools were planning on including other patriotic songs and activities. Which sounds like a great idea to me -- it's far more civic-minded to present other acticities than simply a bland pledge. |
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06 Mar 03 - 10:12 PM (#905273) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: McGrath of Harlow Coercion = forced. In any country. |
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06 Mar 03 - 10:16 PM (#905275) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: Forum Lurker What's really ridiculous is that DeLay is claiming this as "standing up for the Constitution." Aside the fact that to "limit the jurisdiction of the judicial branch" as a Congressional act violates the Constitution, the current Congress has been giving away its own rights to the executive branch. It seems that the Republicans, contrary to all previous beliefs and the core conservative ideology, have decided we'd be better off under a dictator than a representative democracy. |
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06 Mar 03 - 10:21 PM (#905277) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: Bobert The SC will overturn the lower court's ruling! I guarentee it. If Bush and Ashcroft want all red shirts outlawed, this SC would side with 'em 5-4 and Santa Clause would have to find another color shirt to wear on Christmas Eve. Bobert |
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06 Mar 03 - 10:30 PM (#905280) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: Forum Lurker Probably true. On the other hand, I think that any school district which explicitly requires children to recite the pledge is going to spend more on legal fees than it can afford, so most will make it "optional." |
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07 Mar 03 - 12:38 PM (#905385) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: Bill D in certain small southern jurisdictions they will STILL deal with the issue without any 'ruling'...by just ignoring it. It will take someone brave enough to TAKE it to court, and endure community pressure...and worse... for months and years to keep determined Christian conservatives from de facto imposing their will on the minority. |
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07 Mar 03 - 01:49 PM (#905422) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: Rapparee Way back when, I remember that I wasn't sure about having the words "under God" in the Pledge -- that was when they were added in 1954 and I was in the 4th grade. Oddly enough, the words were added during a Republican Administration (Eisenhower's), in an attempt to thwart Communism or something. Since the Pledge isn't an official document or anything, take 'em out. De Lay might also find it unconstitutional to take any matter dealing with the Constitution out of the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, since the Constitution states the the SC has jurisdiction there. My wife, the attorney, and her attorney friends are laughing their asses off at this sort of thing. |
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07 Mar 03 - 05:47 PM (#905532) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: DougR Ok folks, listen up. I hereby grant each of you permission NOT to include the words, "Under God," when you recite the pledge (that is assuming that you DO the pledge from time to time). DougR |
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07 Mar 03 - 05:49 PM (#905533) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: CarolC Being the good Socialist that I am, DougR, I make sure to recite it each and every day. ;-) |
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07 Mar 03 - 11:28 PM (#905575) Subject: RE: BS: DeLay wants to nullify Supreme Court From: DougR Delighted to hear it, Carol C, I hope you find solace in my dispensation! :>) DougR |