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16 Mar 03 - 02:32 AM (#911106) Subject: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: mg I have an accordian that I really love playing and it is not working right now. I have no money to get it repaired, so I thought I would do it myself, actually taking it to a music camp so others could advise perhaps. I have heard that you clamp the keys on the reeds with beeswax, and that is what is wrong. But in reading stuff on the internet, people are saying that is not right, that beeswax is too soft and you need special wax. If I order the special wax, I won't have it in time for the camp, and all of a sudden I must have this accordian working again. So, experts, will the beeswax work at all? For a while? A temporary fix would be fine. Would it hurt the accordian? This is of no particular financial worth; I just like it. I think someone fixed it before with beeswax. I know they hate hot weather and I think I left it in a hot car once. How do you melt the beeswax if it is OK? Someone said sodering iron. I was thinking over a candle in a little dish or something. mg |
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16 Mar 03 - 04:53 AM (#911121) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: selby My son has moulded the end of his Dig with beeswax and it appears to work OK but we are in the UK so it does not get that hot. I thought older accordians used Beeswax anyway Keith |
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16 Mar 03 - 06:39 AM (#911141) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: Little Robyn I have an idea that it is a special wax used by bootmakers. It looks like beeswax but melts at a higher temperature and therefore holds firmer. Find yourself a shoe repair shop and ask. Good luck. I'd be lost without my 'box' too! Robyn |
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16 Mar 03 - 06:43 AM (#911143) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: Deni-C Can I but in....while you're at it. I've been putting silica gel in my case to stop dampness, but I still get some notes and bass keys sticking a bit. My accordion's about 2 yrs old. anyone else got any bright ideas for stopping the damp? Thanks D |
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16 Mar 03 - 07:17 AM (#911152) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: fiddler Teh beeswax should work, I've done emergency jobs on melodeons with the wax on the outside of Edam cheese. There may be a melting point problem as you suggest but I wouldn't hink if carefully used and once inside an instrument most amateur luthiers are more careful than professionals I suspect itwill not do any harm. Personally i woudl try it. As for damp - wher eis it coming from - if damp climate then nothing you can do other wise storage - silica packets in the case and refresh them in a hot dry oven frequently! I get worried in summer with fidles sat int eh abck of an estate wagon and wrap them in extra thermal sleeping bags!!!! Neccesity is the mother of invention. I wish I had a 2 year old accorsion mines about 50 but it still does the job I suppose. A A |
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16 Mar 03 - 07:59 AM (#911167) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: jets The wax used in accordion repair is a combination of bees wax and rosin.I believe it is 50/1/4 mix. |
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16 Mar 03 - 09:06 AM (#911187) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: Deni-C Fiddler....the thermal sleeping bags for instruments....good idea! Of course I never thought of refreshing the silica gel.... Thanks deni |
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16 Mar 03 - 12:02 PM (#911268) Subject: RE: Tech: Accordian Repair - please be kind From: fiddler I love this knowledge pooling! Works!!! |
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16 Mar 03 - 04:18 PM (#911419) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Zany Mouse Having lived on a very damp boat for a number of years I have found that cotton bags filled with rice work better than sil-gel. Cheap too. ZM |
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16 Mar 03 - 07:23 PM (#911549) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,James H. Silver Bees Wax was used on older accordions for years. Especially Hohner. It is used to hold the Reeds into the blocks. Reed is pressed in Place and melted into the wax with a pencil soldering iron or piece of metal warmed up to the point where it will soften the wax. This is so the reed can be remove easily for replacement. I have set reeds on occasion with clear silcone. Makes for a lasting job but is hard to remove in case of repair. be very careful not to get the silcone on the reed. hope this helps some . |
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16 Mar 03 - 07:32 PM (#911554) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: mg could you describe this a bit more? And what is a pencil soldering iron? Like a regular soldering iron? Can you use a regular soldering iron? |
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16 Mar 03 - 07:55 PM (#911564) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: vectis soldering irons come in various shapes. You want the one with the hot end shaped a bit like a pen or pencil. long and thin. Thick ones with a wedged or pointy bit just at the tip are nowhere near as good. I think they get too hot. My hubby says that the electric ones should be low wattage (15w, that's what he uses on my accordions. |
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16 Mar 03 - 08:49 PM (#911585) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Bernard The best type of soldering iron is an adjustable thermostatically controlled one. Solder melting temperature boils the wax too easily, leaving a nasty black sticky residue. A company called 'Skytronics' up here in Manchester (England) does an excellent, fairly cheap one for around thirty quid, but they are trade only. You should be able to get the right wax from Allodi in London - Emilio is very helpful. Older accordions with leather reed valves will also benefit greatly from having plastic valves installed, as they seal much better and aren't prone to curling. If you are already having to replace the wax, it's a good opportunity to do it, and the instrument will take much less effort to play! E-mail me if you need more information... |
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17 Mar 03 - 04:47 AM (#911720) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Deni-C Cotton bags filled with rice...a good idea. zany mouse. another thing. I have a 5 year old Bandmaster 120 bass accordion. Can't understand why but on the keyboard, one of the keys are raised up. It doesn't affect the sound. Can I get this repaired (and is there any point) and what causes it, does anyone know? Also, I'm thinking of selling it after its mOT. Will this affect the value.? Cheers Deni |
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17 Mar 03 - 07:54 AM (#911791) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: fiddler Keys on Accorions are attached via metal which oves and bends with use - heat age allsorts of things. I have straightened a few out on mine b4 now but only worth it if it is bad. A |
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17 Mar 03 - 08:32 AM (#911811) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: trayton WRT plastic valves Any information about the type of plastic and the adhesive to use? Also what difference it makes to the sound, my old hohner melodeon with leather valves sound much more mellow than my new (12 year old) one. |
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17 Mar 03 - 08:36 AM (#911814) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST Mary My accordian began playing up a few weeks ago. No mater how hard I squezzed it, I could get no response. I tried wax and that didn't work - I probably wasn't rubbing hard enough |
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17 Mar 03 - 08:45 AM (#911822) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Doktor Doktor If you use silicon sealant, try to get "Low Modulus" - takes longer to set, but comes off easier and is less chemically active. |
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17 Mar 03 - 07:27 PM (#912158) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: vectis Old floppy discs make really good valves to replace leather. The trouble is that it alteres the timbre of the box so you end up doing all the reeds. You glue them on with a dob of wax as far as I know. |
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17 Mar 03 - 11:31 PM (#912261) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST |
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17 Mar 03 - 11:34 PM (#912264) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Gord All these repairs so far have dealt with the valves and attaching reeds. How does one go about replacing a reed, where can they be bought (I'm in Nfld, Canada) or can they be made?.. I have a 35 yr old box that has a couple of strained reeds..would love for it to sound better again. |
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17 Mar 03 - 11:39 PM (#912266) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: mg have you tried o'brien's music in St. John's? I bet someone there would know. mg |
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17 Mar 03 - 11:50 PM (#912269) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Jack the Sailor Gord you may find interesting reeding here. http://www.accordions.com/vociarmoniche/en_reed1.htm http://1accordion.net/tuning.html |
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18 Mar 03 - 10:00 AM (#912530) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: vectis Brilliant site. Bookmarked 8-D |
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18 Mar 03 - 07:17 PM (#912988) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Bernard Leather valves are fine when they are new, but they harden and curl with age, causing those silly farting noises when you change bellows direction. As they don't do anything other than stop unwanted air flow, they certainly don't 'alter the timbre' - that would be caused by something else changing during the process of removing and replacing the reedplates, typically not seating the plates properly on the wood. The wax is only there, again, to stop unwanted air flow, and the reed plays best when it is entirely in contact with the wood of the reed block. If there is wax between the wood and the reedplate, it dulls the sound. The only change to the sound, perhaps, is the ability of the reed to sound more precisely as it would have when its leather valves were new... My main instrument is a Swiss Hohner Musette IV 120 bass, which has an unusually mellow sound for such a big box. Interestingly, the inside is as well finished as the outside - all the woodwork is polished (yes, inside! Where you don't normally see it!), and I'm sure that it must help the air flow. Even though it's such a large instrument, it is very easy to play, and the reeds are very well regulated even after over thirty years of me playing it. The best test of a secondhand instrument is to hold down a chord without moving the bellows, then gradually start to move the bellows and listen to see if all the reeds of the chord start to speak at the same time. What causes reeds to speak differently is the amount of air gap at the tip - the opposite end to where it is fixed to the plate. The size of the gap differs according to the size of the reed and the note that it sounds, but if the gap is too small or too great, the reed won't speak at all, or will be very 'lazy'. Giving the tip a very slight curl upwards helps to take some of the 'edge' off the note, too, making it a little more 'mellow'. This is one of the techniques used to voice harmonium reeds to give the different 'timbres' for the various stops. Before this turns completely into a thesis, I'm going! BTW, those soldering irons are also available from Electrovision for around 23 quid... I've just ordered a spare! TTFN B Nature has given men one tongue and two ears, that we may hear twice as much as we speak. --Epictetus |
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18 Mar 03 - 10:18 PM (#913089) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,.gargoyle Your post is somewhat ambiguous When I did advertising lay-out for a newspaper - we used a stickly wax in the "paste-up."
Not only was it grand for an accordian reed - it was the best wax for your surf-board....in cold waters.
Personally, I now use super-glue.
If - the pressure-pad-key is "sprung" - simply pop the cover - and bend the metal attachment to the correct allignment.
Sincerely, |
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22 Mar 05 - 09:36 AM (#1440502) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Dr. Reed Bellows |
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22 Mar 05 - 11:02 PM (#1441243) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,.gargorgyle Accordians are VERY simple instruments: Think of a harmonica with bellows and a keyboard.
1. Bellow repair - premium quality "duct tape." 2. Sticky reeds - salt/vinegar with tooth brush and WD40 3. The wax you seek is more flexable/less rigid under all temperatures than Bee's it is used in journalism (Mag/News> pasteup. Locate a local publishing house. 4. The metal connectors are VERY and may be molded (up/down) to level out the keyboard.
DO NOT BE AFRAID!!!!!
Sincerely, |
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23 Mar 05 - 02:22 AM (#1441304) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: georgeward 'way back up this thread, Jets notes that what is used in accordian repair is a mix of beeswax and rosin. That is what I was also taught by an elderly master-repairman (and player). That works. I've a hunch beeswax alone will prove too soft. - George |
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23 Mar 05 - 07:42 AM (#1441420) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Paranoid Android Just to give you a laugh---On St Patricks day I was doing a one man gig with my guitar but I brought my accordion along "just in case". At the end of my gig a group of children came on to do their Irish dancing and I was asked to play the accordion(Piano). As I was strapping it on one of the straps broke and it dropped, narrowly missing one of the children. There was no time to do repairs so I had to play it with one strap and my chin pressed on the the top of the accordion for stability while my bald head faced the audience. NEVER AGAIN !!!! |
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24 Mar 05 - 04:28 AM (#1442319) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Mitch the Bass See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16218&item=7308585223&rd=1 on ebay in the UK but just what you're looking for I believe. Mitch |
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24 Mar 05 - 08:31 PM (#1443115) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Gurney On the humidity problem; a respected performer told me that he NEVER plays 'straight from the case' but always allows thr box to acclimatise in the room first, to minimise condensation. You can't do much about the other end of the gig, though. |
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03 Aug 15 - 11:28 AM (#3727968) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Bill I have 2 questions: What kind of glue was used to bond the wood on reed blocks? Was the reed block sealed? OK maybe 3, Did they used shellac? |
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03 Aug 15 - 01:38 PM (#3727999) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Lester Never have I read so much shit advice in one place. |
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03 Aug 15 - 01:49 PM (#3728004) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST Well, I'll be. If it isn't Lester Lovis. As I live and breathe. |
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03 Aug 15 - 04:22 PM (#3728037) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Lester You may live and breathe but you are mistaken. www.lesterbailey.org |
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03 Aug 15 - 10:10 PM (#3728079) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,.gargoyle Lester... What is YOUR suggestion? Sincerly, Gargoyle I will try the bee's wax and rosin in a radically different application than music... |
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04 Aug 15 - 12:43 PM (#3728161) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Lester For reed waxing I use reed wax (I get mine from Charlie Marshall Google is your friend) applied using a temperature controlled soldering iron. Any one spotted using silicone will be beaten to death with a haddock. Also for the death squad should be applied to any one using WD40 anywhere near any musical instrument it is rubbish lubricant and attracts dust thus gumming up the works. |
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04 Aug 15 - 06:37 PM (#3728240) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler As a professional in the field, Lester knows what he is talking about, so take heed! By the way, you CAN make your own reed wax - I have done it successfully, but it's so much easier to get it already made from Charlie Marshall, who also stocks lots of other stuff, including plastic reed valves. Chris B. |
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04 Aug 15 - 08:42 PM (#3728255) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Lester Method Reed Waxing The Lester Method Lester Method You Tube |
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05 Aug 15 - 07:33 AM (#3728335) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: The Sandman Mudcat at its best |
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05 Aug 15 - 08:09 AM (#3728340) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: Stilly River Sage any one using WD40 anywhere near any musical instrument it is rubbish lubricant and attracts dust thus gumming up the works. That is the mistake people make - WD40 ISN'T a "lubricant." It is a cleaner, and in many applications removes the existing lubricant. The can says it lubricates some things (like hinges) because it in fact removes water and displaces gunk, allowing objects to move freely again, but it isn't a lubricant. To use it properly you should reapply a true lubricant after using WD40 to clean. (I use a can of 3-in-1 oil). Back to the music. |
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05 Aug 15 - 12:25 PM (#3728389) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Bill Back to my original question; what kind of wood glue do the use to bond the wooden reed block together? Is it sealed? |
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05 Aug 15 - 04:58 PM (#3728459) Subject: RE: Accordion Repair - please be kind From: GUEST,Lester I use ordinary PVA wood glue to stick wooden bits together. My personal favourite being this: http://www.axminster.co.uk/polyten-pva-glue |