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16 Mar 03 - 11:04 AM (#911237) Subject: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: George Papavgeris Linked to the English Traditional Folk Music evening planned for Wednesday 19 March on Radio 3, the BBC Radio 3 website has started a thread discussing the future of English folk. Sadly, only 10 messages on that thread (11 now with mine); which would lead the powers that be that interest in folk music is low. All of us Mudcatters may be happily talking to each other here, but THEY don't listen in - we need to take the discussion to them. So, get off your bums, folks, and start posting on that thread (look for it under "Topic - Late Junction", "then English Traditonal music", on the BBC Radio 3 website. You need to register first, but it only takes a minute). |
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16 Mar 03 - 12:04 PM (#911270) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Micca If you try here Then click the English Folk Music box you get to it, I think |
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16 Mar 03 - 12:24 PM (#911278) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Mary in Kentucky You beat me to it micca! Go to BBC Radio Online, then click on Radio 3, then in the left menu click on message boards, then at the bottom right click on Late Junction, then click on the first topic English Folk Music. |
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16 Mar 03 - 02:40 PM (#911365) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: The Shambles BBC R3 The state of English folk music |
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16 Mar 03 - 06:45 PM (#911520) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Mr Greko... Yes Indeedy...Have thrown in my 4 pennorth, as has Anahata and others.. Lets support our gallant friends in Media land...and who knows what might happen...Look at the stuff that is now being shown on BBC4. It wouldn't have happened without input from all you chaps and chappesses out there. Go On...It's only 1 E Mail after all Regards Ralphie |
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16 Mar 03 - 06:53 PM (#911524) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Mr Red I had a look, made my mark. I will be recording or listening on the night. Thanks for the advance warning. |
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16 Mar 03 - 07:01 PM (#911530) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Good on Yer Mr Red... Although, unlike the massively efficient Mudcat, Radio 3's message board seems to take Sunday Night off!! Nice to be held in a queue though...Bit like the Circle line at 8 am..! (Ref for London readers only) Enjoy Weds show.. Regards Ralphie |
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17 Mar 03 - 06:04 AM (#911760) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: GUEST A whole evening of English traditional song and music on BBC Radio 3 next Wednesday, quite amazing really, but it hardly seems to have been noticed by Mudcatters or by anyone else if the number of messages on the BBC 3 website is anything to go by. The BBC use these responses to judge the potential audience and we should be flooding the site with comments. Of course the BBC could be right- no interest in the English tradition, only Scots, Irish and American |
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17 Mar 03 - 06:25 AM (#911766) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie GUEST. Quite right....Come on you people !! I can't keep posting to the site. It would look like a conspiracy! Cheers Ralphie |
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17 Mar 03 - 07:23 AM (#911781) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Harry Basnett Stuck my oar in a couple of times....come on kitties.....let the Powers That Be know we're out there!! All the best...................Harry. |
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17 Mar 03 - 11:07 AM (#911941) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: GUEST,Eliza C Normally I would post to register my vote too, but I can't cos I'm in the programme. Really glad that they are doing this, I only wish they had chosen more imaginatively the people taking part. I would like to hear what Greg Stephens would have to say in the debate, or someone like Katie Howson maybe. As much as I love them to pieces, I don't know how much about English folk music the Oysterband know, for example. I suppose the rationale is that they represent modern English rootsy music, based somehwere close to the tradition. I am looking forward to it though, and I hope that interesting things are said and done. Great to have the opportunity anyway, even if everyone's eyes will be cast towards Iraq. x ec |
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17 Mar 03 - 12:25 PM (#912032) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Harry Basnett Bit baffled about the Oysterband myself, Eliza...ne'er mind it should be an interesting programme and I'm just grateful the BBC have granted so much airtime. Have fun! all the best.........Harry. |
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17 Mar 03 - 04:43 PM (#912055) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: RolyH I've put a message up. Don't forget those of you in the UK with a dish, Radio 3 broadcasts on channel 853 on the Sky satellite.Pretty good digital sound if you plug it through your music system. |
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17 Mar 03 - 05:04 PM (#912074) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Folkiedave Sent a plug in too............ Dave www.collectorsfolk.co.uk www.holmfirthfestival.com |
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17 Mar 03 - 05:14 PM (#912084) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Not sure I can I get on to this chat, I have ntl cabletv internet, not a computer. But I'll have a go. |
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17 Mar 03 - 05:30 PM (#912092) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Well I just had a look but I cant figure out what to press to join up. And it seems to say it's shut for the night anyway. Can anybody offer any advice to a person lacking in savoir-faire when it comes to chatrooms/message-boards all this kind of thing? |
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17 Mar 03 - 06:01 PM (#912111) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: John Routledge Have now registered. Looks like a move in the right general direction if sufficient response is received by the Beeb !! |
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17 Mar 03 - 06:59 PM (#912146) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: vectis Joined up and posted. We should make the most of the chance to get noticed. There are precious few of them on the BEEB nowadays. |
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18 Mar 03 - 04:29 AM (#912347) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: George Papavgeris Good on you, folks, keep at it. Perhaps we can continue posting there after Wednesday, offering our own "post mortem" views too (OK, I know, wrong choice of words, but you know what I mean...) |
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18 Mar 03 - 04:44 AM (#912353) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Oh, and it's actually a good read too !! (Just a sneaky way to keep this thread at the top of the heap until tomorrow !!) Ralphie |
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18 Mar 03 - 04:50 AM (#912355) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Greg-As you know, I use a similar internet set up to you, I have just had a look at the site, but can't seem to figure it out.I will have a look later, and if i get any sense out of it, i will let you know how. |
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18 Mar 03 - 04:58 AM (#912358) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Does anyone know where to write the message? I just had a good look at the site, and can't figure it out, there is no box to write in like here. |
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18 Mar 03 - 05:02 AM (#912359) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie John... assuming that you're registered, Just click on the reply tag at the end of the message you want to answer, and a new page pops up. It's not like here, sadly, as the messages don't appear sequentially, but as seperate conversations..My posts move all over the place as other people come along. Very confusing at first! Regards Ralphie |
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18 Mar 03 - 05:10 AM (#912360) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull thanks ralphie, ill have another look. |
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18 Mar 03 - 05:15 AM (#912364) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: My guru always said I agree Ralphie - I really don't like their messageboard setup - very confusing till you get the hang of it! I tried starting a discussion on the Radio 2 folkies board about the recent folk awards & the possibility of Regional Folk Awards, but it soon descended into a discussion about the Oysterband :-( It did prompt a few letters though, and another discussion so it's well worth posting on the BBC boards if you can get your head around it!! |
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18 Mar 03 - 05:25 AM (#912368) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Ah...Guru...So that was you was it?? It's interesting also, to try and match peoples real names, to their Mudcat handles!! Ralphie |
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18 Mar 03 - 05:38 AM (#912375) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens How do you register? That's what I couldnt find when I had a look. As a VIP has actually flatteringly suggested I should make a contribution, I want to make the effort, but I got a bit confused. |
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18 Mar 03 - 05:52 AM (#912378) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Mmmm Greg...Don't know what system you use..!! But just under the Radio 3 Logo at the top of the page are the words "Log Out"...Now, I'm assuming that for newcomers that would say "Log In"..But, for me, as I'm already "Logged In"..I'm not sure!!! And, If I Logged Out, I might not be able to Log In again..Still with me?? Anyone else help?? Regards Ralphie And, No VIPs around here, only a lot of Billy-No-Mates LOL!! |
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18 Mar 03 - 06:01 AM (#912380) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull i think its stupid and too complicated, why dont they make it easy to understand like mudcat, the bbc have got millions, they should make it easy for people.john |
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18 Mar 03 - 06:17 AM (#912386) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Hello, i figured it out in the end, i told them to start a radio station for folk music, as there is one for jazz music, [jazz fm}, and 2 for classical music, [bbc3 and classic fm}, i wonder if they will? |
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18 Mar 03 - 06:18 AM (#912387) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie John...Agreed. But, In their defence, They've only recently started doing the Message Board lark....No doubt it will improve with time. Regards Ralphie |
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18 Mar 03 - 06:26 AM (#912392) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Ralphie thanks for advice, I will now intrepidly venture in again |
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18 Mar 03 - 06:31 AM (#912393) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Oh Greg...You're not going "To Boldly Go" are you? You know what will happen to this thread if you do...We'll be Shatnerised, and sent below the line....!! |
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18 Mar 03 - 07:15 AM (#912407) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens wow I got in a registered. Then I found a sort of thread with ralphie, john from hull(assuming the suspiciously well spelt John Evans is him) et al. Trouble is, I then realised I didnt know what the programmes was in terms of artists etc. I'll try some other clickies to find out and have another go. My, this is exciting. I had no idea there were so many nerds in the world. I will just mention that I found Malcolm Douglas' contibution as useful and to-the-point as his stuff on Mudcat always is. OK, I'm taking a deep breath and going back down. |
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18 Mar 03 - 07:19 AM (#912410) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: My guru always said Yes Ralphie, that was me - out of dis-guise :-) Mainly just threw the topic in & gradually gave up with it when they all started changing the thread titles & waffling on about the Oysterband. Have just posted my small contribution to the Radio 3 thread, it doesn't seem to have actually gone on, but maybe they get 'held' fist, so I'll check again later! All good stuff... |
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18 Mar 03 - 08:03 AM (#912426) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Harry Basnett Hi, Hil... The messages seem to go to a 'moderator' first to check for inflammatory comments, foul language, etc. and are then posted after the all-clear! That's why I more or less repeated one of my messages 'cos I thought I'd messed things up when I submitted it. All the best...................Harry Basnett. |
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18 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM (#912433) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: My guru always said Thanks Harry, that explains it! I'll check later :-) Hil |
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19 Mar 03 - 03:58 AM (#913217) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Apologies for this... But, 1 last refresh for this thread (Promise!) Please go to the Radio 3 links above, and register your comments re tonights Radio 3 programme. For too long, very little notice of English Music has been taken by the British Media. At last, we, the silent majority, have our chance to hear (hopefully!) intelligent discussion on the music that we love. DO IT !!! Regards Ralphie...(Getting off soap-box!) |
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19 Mar 03 - 09:56 AM (#913373) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Keep up the publicity Ralphie. I've just put a message on. there seemed to be different strings of related topics all going on, I just bunged mine on what I thought was the end of the "English folk music "thread, but it seems to have appeared in the middle. I couldn't really understand how it all works, but then I'm thick. |
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19 Mar 03 - 10:35 AM (#913411) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: GUEST,Bystander This topic certainly seems to have introduced a lot of people to the BBC radio threads even if half of them don't seem to understand how it works. On Mudcat every reply is listed in order, so if someone starts a thread about banjo playing in Mongolia, after about thirty postings it can become a thread about treacle mining in Burgess Hill. With the BBC way of doing things, if you want to make a contribution about Banjos you click on to the first reply and it is added below that one. If you want to talk about treacle you reply to the later posting and it appears below that. I see on the classical music forum they are complaining about all the jazz and world music on Radio 3! |
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19 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM (#913416) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Ah, that explains why i like Mudcat so much. I love thread-drift (unless it's a thread I started, in which case I expect people to stick to the subject I told them to). |
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19 Mar 03 - 11:27 AM (#913472) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Hey, I've got the hang of this Radio 3 place. you can start a New Thread, just like Mudcat, and then you go Top of the List!! Wow. Mind you nobody's replied to me yet. And no sign of any rude GUEST yet, so it's not quite like Mudcat. |
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19 Mar 03 - 11:38 AM (#913488) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Malcolm Douglas I thought I'd cracked it by replying directly to the original post rather than to a reply, but I soon got moved further down the page, and now I'm over on the second one! Never mind; I haven't started on the rôle of folk song collectors and that "glass case" foolishness yet... |
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19 Mar 03 - 11:47 AM (#913498) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: George Papavgeris Hah! Look again, Greg... |
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19 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM (#913519) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Right, I've just replied to you George. nobody's mentioned Iraq yet. I've posted to one thread saying how how important the old music is, and then started the other one saying how important it is to be open to multi-cultural new influences. trying to cover all bases here. |
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19 Mar 03 - 07:47 PM (#914031) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Mr Red Enjoyed the night, my alter ego even got a mention on air! Oysterband? Well I don't particularly applaud all they do but as <HUSHED TONES> Martin Carthy </HUSHED TONES> himself said "You can do anything to a folk song and it will survive - except ignore it" Particularly liked Liza's quote (is it yer own Liza?) "Ancestors whispering in your ear" |
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19 Mar 03 - 09:15 PM (#914075) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Ralphie Oi you lot.... I was doing a Band for John Peel all evening...So, Haven't heard it yet!! Looking at the various cat sites, though...seems like it stirred up a shit storm!! Well done to Malcolm D for getting a mention from young Fiona !! Will get to hear it on Friday, hopefully. But, even if you didn't like it, you've got to admit that it was an interesting experiment. Off now to clear my head from the sounds of Drums and Violas!! Sleep Well Ralphie |
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19 Mar 03 - 09:39 PM (#914088) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Malcolm Douglas I was surprised to be quoted (particularly first), but not surprised that the next sentence I'd written didn't get an airing: "The media has to take some of the blame for this, having engaged over the years in relentless stereotyping. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard young, very self-consciously "clever" comedy acts go for the lazy option of a cheap laugh at the expense of Morris dancers, for example..." Fortunately, other people made much the same point later on. I suppose I should mention that I am not a morris dancer; nor do I have a pot belly or wear arran sweaters (other stereotypes invoked). I do have a beard, and I do drink beer, though never from pewter tankards. If I put my finger in my ear, it is done in private, in order to remove wax. I have never seen anybody put a finger in their ear in order to sing, and neither has Norma Waterson; who has been around longer than I have. |
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20 Mar 03 - 02:24 AM (#914226) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Deni-C how are we doing number-wise? I can't find the total..... deni |
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20 Mar 03 - 04:22 AM (#914269) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: GUEST,Santa What a good evening! Shame I had to give up the folk club to listen to it. But in many ways an opportunity wasted. How many times did an interesting discussion start only to be stopped in its tracks because it was time for the next song? And after the song it was off down another alley altogether. And where were those who would argue differently? Those, maybe, who would suggest (cogently) that English folk music is effectively dead and maintained by middle-class fat bearded beer drinkers (Hello! that's me).... they must exist or there wouldn't be quite so many people willing to argue the reverse. The discussions were excessively one-sided, a bunch of good friends having a natter. And the repeated PC about the Wicked English History was disappointing - if that had any relevance to the tradition it certainly wasn't made clear. Just English = Bad, Everyone else = Good. Cobblers. |
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20 Mar 03 - 05:38 AM (#914293) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Watson I enjoyed the evening, but I was getting really pissed off at being told how we should be embarrassed to be English because of all the bad things we've done in the past. Hey, I've never invaded or subjucated, and I wouldn't have thought many musicians had either. I don't have to apologise for what anyone else has done. Perhaps we should all stop being embarrassed and enjoy our musical heritage. PS I must be more English than Malcolm - I am a morris dancer and I have a whole shelf of pewter tankards, I've never been able to achieve a pot-belly but I do have an arran sweater - oh, hang on - they're Scottish aren't they? |
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20 Mar 03 - 06:34 AM (#914309) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Aran with one r, I think Watson, and Irish, not Scottish. Arran is the Scottish island, but I don't think they have special sweaters there. |
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20 Mar 03 - 07:24 AM (#914330) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Watson Greg, Malcolm said arran with a double r, so that's good enough for me. He's a knowledgeable chap - they wouldn't quote him on Radio 3 otherwise. |
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20 Mar 03 - 07:32 AM (#914334) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Arran jumpers are made in India now, it's cheaper! |
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20 Mar 03 - 08:57 AM (#914395) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Watson So that's what happened to my Aunty Cath - she used to knit them by the dozen - she must have gone to India. |
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20 Mar 03 - 09:50 AM (#914439) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: GUEST,Eliza C Watson-yeah, I was frustrated by that as well. I wanted to say something to that effect but there was so much going on that I didn't get the chance. I thought it was a good effort by the BBC, all told though. cheers, ec |
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20 Mar 03 - 10:21 AM (#914471) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Malcolm Douglas Agreed. And you made some very good points. Don't trust me on the spelling of special woolly jumpers, Watson; I can't remember which is which. But I expect that you are more English than me. I do insist on being partly Scottish, which is another reason I get fed up with all the "Celtic Separateness" business, and indeed the constant blaming of the Wicked English for everything. A look at the historical facts tells a rather different story. One of the reasons why ordinary people in England take little interest in their own traditional culture is that they have been taught for a very long time that they were masters of a great empire, and ought to aspire to higher things than that. What the hereditary rulers of the country failed to mention was that the ordinary people never were masters of any empire; they were just that empire's first colony. I've said that so often, and for so long, that I can't remember who said it originally; I don't think it was me. Might have been Eliza's dad, perhaps. That empire treated working people in England just as badly as it did those in Scotland and Ireland, but they didn't, of course, have the Nationalist option to fall back on. By and large you had to play by the rules of the establishment and embrace its values if you wanted to get on; and those values included the bourgeois art-music model and an artificial "national" music, instead of all that yokel stuff. |
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20 Mar 03 - 10:35 AM (#914498) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: greg stephens Malcolm, your theory about empires and folk-music should be checkable very soon.The rise of the American imperium should automatically generate interest in English folk song very quickly. Buy shares in folk-clubs now while they are still cheap! I'm right now re-listening to the Radio 3 evening, very interesting on a second listen. A fabulous and interesting experiment, and very thought-provoking, but if it was designed to turn on or interest non-believers I think it was a failure.Not enough thrills. And I think recordings do exist of real life trad folk that can generate that thrill. And I wish people wouldnt dismiss banks of sweet primroses as some nostalgic crap that only existed in the past. I have my morning coffee every day on a primrose bank now, and its heart warming and thrilling and makes me think of songs. In 2003, as it did to others in 1703 or whatever. |
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20 Mar 03 - 01:48 PM (#914662) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: Mr Red Greg I with the non-believers but there are is amountain of lapsed believers. It will tickle their lust for their youth. |
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20 Mar 03 - 03:04 PM (#914718) Subject: RE: BBC Radio 3 website discussion NOW (UK) From: fiddler All I can say is it was interesting! Not all as I would have done it but didn't present a bad image over all. Staggered to see Fiona doing it though - I met her as a concert secretary when I was doing Opera many many moons ago - As a general indicator I don't think R3 or the presenter would have entertained that programme then! Well said everyone on it even though I didn't agree with it all, at least we (you) were givechance to say it! A |