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19 Mar 03 - 06:39 AM (#913262) Subject: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: KarlMarx A Letter to George W. Bush on the Eve of War By Michael Moore, MichaelMoore.com March 17, 2003 George W. Bush 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, DC Dear Governor Bush: Lengthy non-music copy-paste article deleted. Click here to find it. Next time, please provide a link, plus a summary in your own words. Thanks.-Joe Offer- Michael Moore www.michaelmoore.com |
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19 Mar 03 - 07:51 AM (#913289) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly y'all must be so very proud... ...you get to have a Rush Limbaugh for your side too! |
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19 Mar 03 - 05:37 PM (#913888) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST,Peter T. As remarked by another, I can hardly wait for the Oscars. Presumably they will cut him off if he speaks. yours, Peter T. |
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19 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM (#913920) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Bobert Good show, Michael, and don't let some of these sour-grape war mongers get ya' down. They aren't not wired to understand what you are trying to tell 'em. But why'd ya' stop at 6 points? Run out of paper? That musta been it... Bobert |
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19 Mar 03 - 06:07 PM (#913939) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST i have always admired mr. moore...i love how he puts forward his views...and makes it so everyone can understand what is going on...wit and satire is a wonderful weapon... |
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19 Mar 03 - 10:42 PM (#914126) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Troll I disagree with the comparison of Michael Moore with Rush Limbaugh. Rush's pieces generally contain at least a kernel of truth. Not always, but generally. troll |
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19 Mar 03 - 11:27 PM (#914150) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST,clint keller My attitude toward Michael Moore is sort of a reverse of Voltaire's (supposed) quote; I agree with a lot of what he says, but I sure wish he wouldn't talk that way. However, some kernels of truth: 4. The Pope has said this war is wrong. 5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only one (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces 6. A lot of that stuff about France is true, but perhaps beside the point. clint keller |
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19 Mar 03 - 11:29 PM (#914155) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Peg Michael Moore has more integrity in his little (okay it's kinda big) finger than Rush Limbaugh has in his entire body. |
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20 Mar 03 - 12:03 AM (#914168) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST and with rush...thats ALOT of body.... |
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20 Mar 03 - 01:01 AM (#914191) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: DougR Michael Moore is the liberal's pin-up boy. I wonder if he has ever had a postive thought in his entire life. DougR |
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20 Mar 03 - 01:11 AM (#914192) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST,clint keller Michael Moore is the liberal's pin-up boy. DougR You wouldn't be putting people in pigeonholes, would you? ck |
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20 Mar 03 - 01:52 AM (#914209) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: DougR Yep! DougR |
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20 Mar 03 - 11:46 AM (#914579) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Mark Clark I certainly agree with Moore's point of view more often than I do Limbaugh's but, asside from my own views, I think parallels can be drawn between them.
- Mark |
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20 Mar 03 - 12:03 PM (#914594) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Beccy Guest- assuming that you don't keep up with Rush Limbaugh, your comment of "and with rush...thats ALOT of body.... " can be forgiven. The man has lost a couple bodies worth of weight and kept it off for a couple years now. Like him or not, the guy sure knows an effective diet when he sees one... :-) Beccy |
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20 Mar 03 - 12:09 PM (#914600) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: katlaughing Mark, I don't consider a lot of what Moore has done as stupid actions and pronouncements . I am thinking especially of such things as having people dying from emphysema sing Christmas carols in the lobby of one of the big tobacco companies, after execs refused to meet with them. I thought it was very profound and bold. Why not confront them with the effects of their products? I am also reminded of his postings, while driving cross country to get him to NYC after nine-eleven. He does not sit in a radio booth and pontificate. He gets out among the people and shines a light on things the powers that be would just as soon leave in the dark. There is no comparison between him and the Rush. kat |
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20 Mar 03 - 02:53 PM (#914708) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Mark Clark Sorry, Kat. I didn't mean to characterize Moore's work as stupid actions and pronouncements. What I thought I said was that both Moore and Limbaugh base their material on the stupid actions and pronouncements of the people they ridicule. And there is no shortage of material for either of them. If, for some reason, people chose to pick apart my own stupid actions and pronouncements, I'm sure they would also have plenty of shot for their cannons. As I said, there are parallels between Moore and Limbaugh but there are differences as well. For example, Moore is right on and Limbaugh is full of shit. But then that's obvious. <g> - Mark |
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20 Mar 03 - 04:47 PM (#914786) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: DougR Mark: I read your first post comparing Rush and Moore, and began to think there might be some hope for you. Then I read your reply to kat. Sigh. DougR |
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20 Mar 03 - 05:33 PM (#914822) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Jack the Sailor I also agree with Mark's post. They are both entertainers. I'm not a fan from either. I want my news from newsmen. I don't want to preached to when I'm entertained. |
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20 Mar 03 - 05:38 PM (#914824) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Jack the Sailor Joes link is to google, this is to the letter. Michael Moore website |
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20 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM (#914853) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: katlaughing Thanks, Mark, sorry I misread. I've got LOTS of hope for you, so no worries about Doug's lack of support.**bg** |
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20 Mar 03 - 06:21 PM (#914861) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Mark Clark I figured I'd pushed Doug's button. The neat thing about Doug is that, while he makes no apology for his point of view, he doesn't lose his composure or his sense of humor. At least not among reasonable and gentle people. - Mark |
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20 Mar 03 - 11:25 PM (#915067) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly ...and they both make what debate is necessary for freedom to survive MUCH baser, MUCH less civil, MUCH less logical, MUCH.... |
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21 Mar 03 - 05:12 PM (#915632) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST,Mudlark Well said, Mark, incl. postcript. But I lump media "newsmen" right in there with the basest of entertainers. I think you have to dig pretty deep, way deeper than new(wo)men, all the way down into journalists to even begin to get beyond news as entertainment. |
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21 Mar 03 - 07:02 PM (#915720) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: DougR I try, Mark, I truly try. DougR |
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22 Mar 03 - 12:28 AM (#915860) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I love it when conservatives have to knock the person instead of the message. Windbags like Limbaugh can't fight the common sense so they pull out the rhetoric and insults. How come not ONE of you conservatives bother to denounce a single point Moore made in his letter? Here is what gets me about conservatives like Limbore. I tuned him in the other day and he was on a roll about how the Democrats want the war to fail and they look for excuses to hate George Bush. Where does he get this crap? Did he give us ONE example of how Democrats want us to lose the war? Of course not, because he made the lie up. He then spends the next hour telling us how he hates the Democrats. What a hypocrite! |
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22 Mar 03 - 08:42 AM (#915952) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Geoff the Duck Just for us non-US members of Mudcat. Who or what is a Rush Limbaugh? In the UK, I am aware of Michael Moore from his TV programes looking at corruption of "Big Business" and stupid bureaucratic systems in the USA. I have a fair idea what Moore stands for and have usually found merit somewhere in his programmes. What does this other bloke do, and what is his stance on the World? Just wondering, as the name has appeared on several recent threads, and over here, we haven't a clue what is being referred to. Quack! GtD. |
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22 Mar 03 - 11:31 AM (#916009) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Rick Fielding Well I'm sure several folks will quickly jump on me and say I'm wrong Geoff. Describing Rush (a hugely popular radio talk-show host) is probably like the three Blind 'Wise men' trying to describe and elephant to the King. The guy has many sides. I'm absolutely riveted by human behaviour (mine as well as that of others) and I find Limbaugh (who I've listened to, on and off for several years to be one of the most interesting phenomena of the day. He's articulate to a fault, sees himself as being hilarious, and often stops himself in the very nick of time from making anti-black remarks (in jest of course) His targets are liberals, Democrats and those he sees who have "class envy". He certainly understands most issues, although he never sways from his "only the strong SHOULD survive" point of view. I'm sure he's well aware that George W Bush, is hugely unprepared intellectually to be the leader of any country, and seems unable to hold the tiniest bit of information in his head...but Rush is a very respected member of the Bush inner social circle (as he was with that of Newt Gingrich) and probably has even done his share of "advising". (this is strictly my speculation) His real Achilles Heel is that he could be taken apart by virtually any well informed moderate. Emotional Democrat guys like Paul Begala and James Carville (are you familiar with the show "Crossfire"?) might not fare as well. Rush is polite and REALLY knows how to use the language. In a nutshell, he harps again and again on what he sees as the Democrats' failings, and simply ignores the same behaviour in Republicans.......although I think he TRULY believes that he's a balanced commentator. Cheers Rick |
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22 Mar 03 - 11:39 AM (#916012) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Peg Rush is polite??? I think his constant use of the term "femi-Nazis" for feminists (as well as assuming all feminists are "baby-killers") is quite offensive. |
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22 Mar 03 - 12:18 PM (#916030) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Balanced????? I do not listen to him daily, but I can't recall hearing him take Republicans to task, unless they weren't being conservative enough for his taste. |
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22 Mar 03 - 02:48 PM (#916096) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly I think Rick overstates the case a bit, but I will concede that Rush's strength of argument is in his control of the program. He doesn't debate politics well. He does a little better discussing and debating the philosophical underpinnings, in that he has a pretty good grasp of what matters to conservatives....and more to the point, liberals -- he understands what matters to them, but more important, what gets under their skin. Interesting, but Rush's pre-war (remember back then? *waxing nostalgic*) programs were almost exclusively anti-Bush. His programs were almost entirely devoted to Bush's weakness in dealing with the then Senate majority, and his almost total aquescence to their agenda. Many of his callers were apoplectic with his anti-bushness. He doesn't refer to feminists as "feminazis". He refers to a particular "brand" of feminist as "feminazi" -- those whose main focus is pro abortion -- and who are "militant" about it. As to whether or not Moore and Limbaugh are mirror images of each other, I think you'd have to agree with Moore not to see the parallels. I tend to give Moore the leg up in the "sophistication of humor" category (I think Rush's humor is pretty juvenile and have come to think it hurts more than helps, though it was his foot in the door 15 years ago when no conservative was trying to sell conservative shtick). In terms of accuracy I would say they are both fast and loose with facts. And hey, for what it's worth, they don't have a college degree between 'em. I think there is an almost strange "rushophobia" that has developed around the guy. Almost clinical to have so many hold such strong negative opinions, when so few of those opinions are based in actually listening to, or reading him (they are almost exclusively developed through the rushophobia network of books and internet info about him). |
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22 Mar 03 - 09:10 PM (#916289) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I do listen to him and I don't buy it. He is a good entertainer, but he is not a source of information. He is gifted at sounding intelligent, but when you stop and analyze the things he says you see through the garbage. He is wrapped in rhetoric and he knows the buttons to push to get a response. He is skilled at preaching to the choir - conservatives buy his spiel without questioning what they are listening to. If you want to hear something, you will welcome it. The liberals do not have a Rush Limbaugh and that may be the problem. The liberal commentators do not give the vicious attacks that Limbaugh can craft. They do not possess the so-called humor that Limbore plays to his minions. |
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22 Mar 03 - 09:51 PM (#916297) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: GUEST,sorefingers Yes Mr Bluster and Blarf is hired by every lazy Radio Station Manger in the USA and yes most folks most of the time simply turn him off, what they don't tell you about Tush Bumraw, his adult exotic recreations or his enormous salary, both of which proportional to the size of his enormous ass, are the best kept secrets in the entire USA. None of this would be the slightest bit interesting if we all knew his home town, or the weakness of it's inhabitants for cheap thrills and it's unspectacular anti Black/Jewish/Catholic etc institutions in the now sad state of Missouri, or as they say in the Ozarks 'The State of Misery'. In fact none other than his sister used have a webpage where the locals competed to see which could post the most vulgar, offensive and racist remarks. Truely Mr Tush cometh from the depths of depravity, no wonder then his refined taste for gore, stink and sexual matters among his prey; allthewhile hiding his own skills in the same, he works away upon the brainless, the unthinking and the weakminded, the 'dittohead'. |
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22 Mar 03 - 09:57 PM (#916299) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly "The liberals do not have a Rush Limbaugh and that may be the problem. The liberal commentators do not give the vicious attacks that Limbaugh can craft. They do not possess the so-called humor that Limbore plays to his minions" aw sure ya do! (and Moore is just one of many). I never really thought of Limbaugh as coming across intelligent -- I always thought he put a more pop face to philosophical ideas that the Friedmans, Buckleys, Wills, et al were just never going to be hip enough to convey to "the masses" {yeah, shit Bill, me'nED was a jist a lisnin to ol' Buckley --we jis luv that gIz take on sply'n'dmand. Hell yes! Hank Bob!}(truth is, I doubt they wanted to compromise their credibility with such a pop appeal) |
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22 Mar 03 - 10:02 PM (#916303) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly I don't get... ... made up names. Limbore, Tush whatever. Doesn't that feel as juvenile as it sounds? And who do you think it appeals to.....or bothers? ... It has been mentioned at least once in this thread that Rush is surprisingly svelte these days. do you not read? not know? not care? It lends less credibility to your criticism that, not only do you not know what he talks about -- you aren't even aware of what he looks like. |
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22 Mar 03 - 10:24 PM (#916307) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Ebbie "It lends less credibility to your criticism that, not only do you not know what he talks about -- you aren't even aware of what he looks like." It is radio, you know... |
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22 Mar 03 - 10:28 PM (#916309) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: WFDU - Ron Olesko John Hardly - made up names? That is one of the tools that Limbaugh uses. So it is okay for Rush to do that but when we do it suddenly it becomes "juvenile"? I guess you made my case - thanks John Hardly! Last week he went on a rant about Democrats hating Bush and looking for issues to beat him up on. Yet in the same show he shows the same hatred for liberals and Democrats. How is that not hypocritical? Again John, just like Rush, you choose to attack the person making the statements rather than the statement the person is making. John, I would also like to clarify - since you linked my quote with someone else, that I never called him "Tush" nor would I make fun of Rush's weight. As you pointed out, the guest that chose to do that is very wrong. I am very glad to see that he lost weight and he looks good. I'm also glad that he has made such great progress from his hearing loss. While I don't like him, I'm glad he has a spot on the radio. We need checks and balances. |
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23 Mar 03 - 02:54 AM (#916389) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Peg John Hardly wrote: "He doesn't refer to feminists as "feminazis". He refers to a particular "brand" of feminist as "feminazi" -- those whose main focus is pro abortion -- and who are "militant" about it." Um, yes he does refer to feminists in general as "feminazis" and I have heard him do so many many times. He makes no distinction among differing degrees of feminism. And even if he was more specific about it, this would still be extremely offensive...not only to women but also to anyone who considers careless use of the term "Nazi" offensive (and I am guessing a lot of people do) . |
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23 Mar 03 - 06:04 AM (#916424) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly Ebbie, Your "radio" point would be well made had the first assertion about Rush's appearance been made by me. Ron, I made it clear that I DO think Rush's humor is juvenile. No hypocricy there. Yes, I noticed it was your "Limbore", another's "Tush" (as well as the fact that it was they, not you who made the crack about his weight). I still feel the same. But then, I always thought it weakened an arguement to refer to Clinton as "Slick Willie"(or any other nick), Bush as "Shrub" (though I know that's supposed to be to distinguish from George the elder *rolleyes*). Peg, Yer wrong. Distasteful it may be, but your assertion is wrong. |
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23 Mar 03 - 06:13 AM (#916426) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Nemesis You may be interested in Mark Thomas in the UK who is an entertainer who actually gets passionately involved in issues and campaigns .. he uses the medium of comedy to draw attention to issues that many people averagely might not think about Mark Thomas |
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23 Mar 03 - 07:02 AM (#916439) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly oh yeah, I forgot to answer: "Last week he went on a rant about Democrats hating Bush and looking for issues to beat him up on. Yet in the same show he shows the same hatred for liberals and Democrats. How is that not hypocritical?" As you will notice, my point all along is that both Moore and Limbaugh make civil debate less, not more, civil -- and therefore, less, not more productive. I may correct wrong assertions about Rush, but I have come to feel that, because of this sort of unholy marriage of information and comedy, as well as the phobia that has developed around him, Rush has stopped helping the political side he's on. |
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23 Mar 03 - 09:56 AM (#916474) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Thanks for clearing that up John. I don't know if we will ever bring civility back to radio and/or TV. Politicians do the same thing. It has become the norm. |
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23 Mar 03 - 10:22 AM (#916487) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Greg F. Limbaugh is an obnoxious white-supremecist(a.k.a. "Christian"), hate-mongering, right-wing shock-jock and nothing more- Why anyone of intelligence bothers to listen to him spew, much less believe what he says is beyond me. How anyone can find him 'entertaining' is a pretty pitiful comment on the state of American society. I could play you audio tapes, John, of his habitual lumping all folks of any feminist persuasion whatsoever together as 'feminazis'; he apparently thinks it's 'amusing' and 'cute'- but I suppose that wouldn't convince you, either. |
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23 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM (#916491) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly I've listened to him regularly having only missed the first half year since syndication. I doubt you know the flow and feel of his program or his beliefs better than I. (and I'll bet I listen to more NPR/PBS and read more Washington Post/New York Times stuff than you listen to or read "right-wing" stuff *grin*)... ...but I appreciate your gentle manner none-the-less, Greg. |
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23 Mar 03 - 10:44 AM (#916496) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Greg F. "gentle manner"? Do you applaud Limbaugh for that as well? ;>) |
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23 Mar 03 - 10:55 AM (#916500) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly Greg. read. |
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23 Mar 03 - 01:00 PM (#916539) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Peg John; even now that two of us (Greg F. and myself) have stated that your claim that Limbaugh is somehow selective in his use of the term "feminazis" is inaccurate, you can only counter it with "yer wrong." I have ears. I am intelligent. I know what I've heard and I have listened to Rush Limbaugh a great deal (including that first "half season" which apparently you missed out on). Your picayunish attempt to defend him is amusing. But you're the one who's wrong in this case. |
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23 Mar 03 - 01:12 PM (#916545) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: John Hardly all right. |
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23 Mar 03 - 02:16 PM (#916566) Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore's letter to Bush From: Thomas the Rhymer I saw a bumper sticker a while back that said; "If you don't know Rush Limbaugh, You don't know sh*t." And I agree. Rush and Michael will compare A lot like night and day... One gets paid to taut and dare The other, "seize the day!" And those that nourishment must find Opinions shout starvation But facts and researching... the kind Rejoice in generation One will tear with prejudice the fabric of the equals The other looks for justice with recordings of the peoples... Long live Michael Moore, and may the heavens smile upon his works! ttr+ |