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31 Mar 03 - 10:00 AM (#922486) Subject: WOODEN FLUTE - Looking for one... From: Naemanson My daughter played flute in her high school band and in the municipal band during high school and after graduation. Once she started in college she let it go. Now she's involved with LARPing and wants to play some early and traditional music. She'll use her concert band flute but would like to have a wooden flute. I know nothing about flutes but want to give her one for a graduation present. Are there any suggested sources, suggestions for finding a used one, or any knowledge you would care to share? I also need to find books of Irish or Celtic music for flute. The limit of my knowledge: I THINK the wooden flutes come in specific keys. What would be the best key for playing Irish or Celtic music. |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM (#922498) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,leeneia A flute in D would probably be most convenient, but it takes rather long fingers. How big are her hands? I have a wooden flute in D, and I had to have a key put on the third hole from the top. I still can't play it fast. What is LARPing? |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:07 AM (#922500) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Sorcha Elderly Instruments Always been very helpful to me, but lots of folks seem to have probs with them. Or, look for Lark in the Morning. |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:51 AM (#922553) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson LARPing = Live Action Role Playing These people get themselves up in fancy costumes and makeup and enjoy acting out fantasy stories. It apparently has quite a following. My daughter loves it. Some of her best friends are in LURPS [Lancaster University Role Playing Society] Her hands are not very large. She got her size from her mother. Aren't there wooden flutes with limited numbers of keys on them like the metal flutes? This flute doesn't have to be totally authentic. I'll check with Elderly and Lark. Thanks for those ideas. I keep forgetting about them. |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:57 AM (#922564) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: smallpiper Hobgolin always have loads of them in |
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31 Mar 03 - 12:44 PM (#922671) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: cyder_drinker Is it for traditional music? There's loads of info at http://www.woodenflute.com |
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31 Mar 03 - 10:56 PM (#923116) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,leeneia If she's not going to play in sessions, where the tunes are pretty much in the key of D, then she might like a flute in G, which is smaller and easier on the hands. (Its lowest note is a G.) I have one made by Ralph Sweet and another which is simply called a Renaissance flute. (Renaissance is the brand name.) The fingering of a G flute is similar to the fingering of a recorder in F. My G flutes are 18 inches long, and the distance from the top hole to the bottom is 6.5 inches. The D flute is 24 inches long, and the distance from the top hole to the bottom is 8.5 inches. As I said, I needed to add a key to be able to play it. I got it from the House of Musical Traditions in Takoma Park, Maryland. They mailed it out and gave me some time to try it out and send it back if need be. |
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31 Mar 03 - 11:02 PM (#923120) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Chip2447 I have 3 of these in bamboo, they are nicely made and have nice sound. The hardwood flutes are lovely and a nice rich tone. The link below will take you to their page, and sound files of their various instruments can be heard also. Sound Creations Chip2447 |
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01 Apr 03 - 12:04 AM (#923143) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,Tom Dowling Patrick Olwell, who is located in Virginia, makes exceedingly fine bamboo flutes in various keys. I acquired an 'F' from him that is just fine, and I do not have overly large hands by any stretch. I regret that I do not have his number readily at hand, but if you are interested, I am sure I can get it. I do not have great familiarity with any of the other fine flute makers out there, but a lot of folks who play Irish music like his instruments. For an opening book, I would recommend The Clarke Tin Whistle: A Handbook by Bill Ochs, though to play along, a D whistle would be needed. (If the LARP is circa 1850, you can get a Clarke D or C whistle--they hark back to 1843.) Good Luck Tom D. |
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01 Apr 03 - 05:22 AM (#923249) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Ella who is Sooze Well, I play a George Ormiston wooden flute (unkeyed in D)... It's a smallish flute, but absolutely lovely... he has lots of others, keyed and unkeyed and in different keys... He also has a web site, (google search for him). He does mail order, and the flutes are of a lovely quality... mine gets better each time I play it! Other than that... the website Cyder drinker recommended is a good un and well worth a long squint! Cheers Ella |
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01 Apr 03 - 10:18 AM (#923533) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Wilfried Schaum If your daughter wants a flute for LARPing I recommend a treble recorder, since they were cheaper and so more widely used in times of old. They are built as Basso (F), Tenore (C), Alto (F), Soprano (C), Sopranino (F) and The Very Small Recorder (C). With small hands she is predestined for Soprano and the smaller ones. I played The Very Small Recorder once (about 1 1/2 fingers long), but my fingertips grew too thick. The trebles have two ways of grips: the Baroque are played with forked grips, and the German not (easier to play, but not so pure in some sounds). I only know German fabricants; I prefer Mollenhauer of Fulda. Wilfried |
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01 Apr 03 - 03:33 PM (#923825) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Bearheart A firend of mine makes and plays them; He would also know of other flute makers possibly closer to you. Where are you located? Let me know if you want his email. Bekki |
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01 Apr 03 - 03:59 PM (#923841) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson I am in Maine, USA. There is no hurry. I have a month and a half till she graduates. Thanks for the sites and all the information. I guess I have some learning to do. Plus I need to talk with her about what it is she thinks she needs. |
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02 Apr 03 - 04:29 AM (#924291) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Sarah the flute Eight key flute in D is the most trad option and Hobgoblin (you can do mail order) have loads both new and second hand. Just check the hole spaces but the stretch is pretty similar to a classical metal boehm flute in most cases. Many years ago I switched from a metal flute to a traditional one. It takes some practice but I enjoy playing both. I use the D flute for most things but when it gets into awkward keys I use the metal one cos it's easier to get b flats etc. Book wise there's a great tutor book and tape by Fintan Vallely (again available thru hobgoblin. This teaches you breathing techniques and tricks suchh as rolling and cranning and cutting and you can listen and hear how it's done. Best of luck Sarah |
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02 Apr 03 - 06:17 AM (#924341) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: JohnInKansas I came across Hamilton Flutes some time back while trying to track down the composer of a couple of tunes - i.e. Hammy Hamilton. I don't know that he's building the kind of flute you want, but he has quite a bit of commentary, FAQ stuff, and such relating to "trad" Irish flutes. You might find some stuff to help "build your own opinions" about what you're looking for. John |
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02 Apr 03 - 02:21 PM (#924666) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,KateG at work Naemanson, If you're in Maine, trot over to Song of the Sea in Bar Harbor. They have Ralph Sweets' wooden keyless flutes. Just make sure you get one in his new design, the tone is much nicer and the intonation far better. I played one of the old ones and it was OK, but I had to fiddle with my embouchure to get the C# to play on pitch. Then I tried one of the new ones (that the sales clerk was considering keeping for herself) and whipped out my credit card. The finger spacing is quite comfortable for me (and I'm an average sized 5'6" woman) so unless your daughter's hands are tiny, she should be fine. For books, TIMBER: the Flute tutor, by Fintan Vallay is a good introduction, especially as she already has a sense of how flutes work. Also helpful is COMPLETE IRISH TINWHISTLE TUTOR by L.E. McCullough which discusses traditional flute/whistle ornamentation in excellent detail. The web is another good resource as other 'Catters have pointed out. |
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02 Apr 03 - 04:33 PM (#924749) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson Thanks again. I just realized that if I get a wooden flute now my father will have time to cut an ornamental design, a dragon or something, into it. She'll love that. The cutting will be little more than a scratching on the surface. My father is quite the artist for doing that sort of work. He does a lot of work with bone and metal. I'll have to call him tonight. |
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03 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM (#925469) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Ella who is Sooze oh no!!!! Don't cut into the flute, it may have some affect on the sound of the flute as it may make some difference to the thickness... check with the maker first! Nice idea though! Ella |
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04 Apr 03 - 11:55 AM (#926107) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson I wish I had a picture of the name plate he made for my desk. It is a wedge of wood. On the high side there is a plate of bone with my name scrimshawed onto it. On the log back side is a piece of leg bone with The Angel Gabriel under full sail scrimshawed on to it. The whole thing is maybe 5 inches long. He also makes powder horns with ship battles or maps or just decorations scratched into the surface. He could take a plain wooden flute and make it a work of art. I'll have to talk to a builder. Bearheart, I'll start with your friend. |
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04 Apr 03 - 05:10 PM (#926339) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Brían Naemanson, I have a D flute from Ralph Sweet and I'd recommend it as a student flute. Julia's friend Sharon recommended it to me and she's about the best flute player I know. I think I bought mine from Andy's Front Hall. I had one of Patrick Olwell's as well.They are very good student flutes. Brían |
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04 Apr 03 - 05:36 PM (#926350) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Peter T. Ignorant questions: are these flutes transverse? Do you play them like tin whistles but, er, sideways (I mean, same fingering)? yours, Peter T. |
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05 Apr 03 - 04:07 AM (#926577) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Ella who is Sooze Yes Peter... they are the same fingering except played to the side... So, technically if you can play a whistle, once you've mastered the embouchore (SP) for the flute (blowing accross the hole bit) then you should be able to play the flute. But the whole thing takes time, take a little bit of time to build up the lung power, to be able to play for longer periods, music... Ella |
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05 Apr 03 - 09:50 AM (#926633) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,Peter T. Thanks, Ella. yours, Peter T. |
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05 Apr 03 - 10:34 AM (#926657) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,Kristine I looked into getting a wooden flute from Hammy Hamilton and George Olwell a few months ago, and the waiting list was several years...so you may not have as much time as you think. I did get a flute from Lark in the Morning, but I'm having a tough time getting the sound to flow out easily. I'm an avid whistle player, and I have had experience playing the silver flute, but it does take a lot of lung power. Question for experienced wooden flute players...does the temperature effect the ability to play the flute? Good luck finding the right instrument. I love the sound of the wooden flute (when it's played right!). |
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05 Apr 03 - 11:22 AM (#926674) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST,leeneia Reading this thread, I have come to realize that there are so many factors involved in selecting a flute that you should not surprise your daughter with a flute you have purchased. Rather, tell her about the gift you want to make and let her choose her own by trying them out. Wilfried Schaum: hello from another recorder player. I play soprano, alto, tenor and sopranino. I agree with you - if you want a woodwind sound,a recorder is more authentic to the Renaissance than a transverse flute. I think it also easier to play and to pack. |
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05 Apr 03 - 11:28 AM (#926679) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Peter T. Yeah, but how do you get a recorder not to sound like a dentist whistling in your head? yours, Peter T. |
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05 Apr 03 - 02:06 PM (#926761) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: KateG Kristine asked how temperature affected playing wooden flutes. The answer is a lot. Last Christmas I had mine with me when we were playing at our local historical society's holiday doo. It was held in an old stone schoolhouse with a furnace almost as old as the building. My flute go so cold it was playing about 1/2 tone flat. I had to take it apart and put the pieces in my socks to warm up for half an hour (thank heavens I was wearing a long skirt) before I could play it, and then I put them back when I switched back to the dulcimer or guitar. Twiddling the fingers fast in the cold is also no joke, but a wooden flute is much kinder to the lips than a metal one in those situations (she says with unlamented recollections of high school band in football season). The wooden flute does take a lot of air, but not as much as a low D whistle (which is why I got it). It's also a LOT louder than a recorder, especially the low ones. I never worried about the neighbors when my recorder group played in my apartment many years ago. But now I live in the country, and my neighbors have told me that they enjoy the sound of my flute on a summer evening when I play on the porch. |
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06 Apr 03 - 08:57 AM (#927182) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Sarah the flute Temperature certainly does have an effect. We had arranged 2 recording sessions each a week apart and one day was boiling hot and the other day was freezing. It wasn't only the flute that was out... all the wooden instruments were and we had planned to do some harmonies etc on the second session - but no way was that going to work! I agree that you should let your daughter try before you buy. Flutes do have individual characters and the more you play the more you get to know what your instrument can do. However you do get a feeling initially about whether you are going to get on with the instrument or not so it's better to try out a few first especially as flutes can be quite dear Playing the wooden one rather than the metal one takes a bit of time to get used to. The biggest difference is that you don't have to wait for the keys to move before changing notes. Also you have to get used to a different style of blowing as you don't tongue notes in the same way as you do on a classical flute - it's more of a huff and a click and that takes practice and a bit more blow! Good luck Sarah |
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07 Apr 03 - 11:09 AM (#927868) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Art Thieme I had one made from an old turtle...but that's another thread... Art Thieme |
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07 Apr 03 - 01:01 PM (#927954) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson Hmm, a difficult proposition, letting her try the flute before we buy. She's in Pennsylvania and I'm in Maine. Still, it's good advice. I'll have to think about this. Bear in mind she isn't looking for a concert instrument (yet). She wants something she can use outdoors, carry around with her and use when she feels the need. It will be an addition to her costume and the ambiance of a live action role playing game. With that in mind I think I can get away with a (relatively) rougher model than what some of you are suggesting. |
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07 Apr 03 - 01:14 PM (#927967) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Brían George Olwell makes some really fine flutes and I understand the waiting line is long, but the bamboo flutes he makes usually don't take that long and I'm told he makes them in off seasons(provided he's having them). Brían |
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07 Apr 03 - 01:32 PM (#927978) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: open mike i hope the looking for flute and the flute for sale people get together! |
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07 Apr 03 - 03:18 PM (#928027) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: GUEST Naemanson: How soon must this purchase be made? Skip Healy is performing with me at the Sea Music Festival this year. He makes really fine flutes, and I sure he'd be glad to discuss the subject with you. |
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07 Apr 03 - 04:28 PM (#928068) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Marc That last post was made by me, Marc Bernier. |
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07 Apr 03 - 05:14 PM (#928105) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson Marc, I'd like to present it to her at graduation in May. She'll have all summer in Pennsylvania and she wants to play the flute. I don't think I'll have time to order from Skip. Hobgoblin has something they call a Cuban flute. There is a sound file and it sounds OK. Could some of you flute people look at the site and give me your opinion? Cuban Flute |
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07 Apr 03 - 05:37 PM (#928123) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Marc That looks fine to me, I don't think your going to find a better price for a keyed wooden flute. |
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07 Apr 03 - 10:37 PM (#928339) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: pete au hi there is a wooden flute posted on the mudcate tredd for sale that a friend of mine is trying to sell it is 80years old |
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08 Apr 03 - 12:45 PM (#928756) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson What do you mean by "mudcate tredd"? I looked on the auction page but nothing was there. |
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08 Apr 03 - 04:54 PM (#928934) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson I just called Lark In the Morning to order the Cuban Flute. The man I talked to told me the flute would not suffice for what my daughter wants to do with it. He wasn't going to sell me the flute unless I insisted. Thanks, Lark, for suggesting I continue the search. |
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10 Apr 03 - 09:19 AM (#930377) Subject: RE: Looking for a wooden flute... From: Naemanson I set my daughter researching on the web for her own flute. She's decided to stay away from the keyed flutes which makes my pocketbook sigh with relief. |