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04 Apr 03 - 10:21 PM (#926492) Subject: BS: Accupuncture..would you share your story..... From: GUEST,Mary I had my first experience with accupuncture today, and I was very impressed. Would anyone share there feelings on this. thanks Mary |
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04 Apr 03 - 10:34 PM (#926495) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,pdc I have always had good experience with acupuncture for chronic pain, as have several friends. Interesting, isn't it? |
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04 Apr 03 - 10:34 PM (#926496) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: katlaughing Here's a previous thread in which I asked the same type of question: click here. It got a little contentious. Since then I've been many times and I highly recommend it! Lots of help to me!! Thanks, kat |
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04 Apr 03 - 10:39 PM (#926499) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: katlaughing And one more, Alternative health treatments |
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05 Apr 03 - 04:04 AM (#926576) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: John MacKenzie It's only a little prick. Giok |
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05 Apr 03 - 05:35 AM (#926602) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Dead Horse I would not recommend it. I have tried it on several instruments, all to no avail. The bellows on my accordion have wheezed uncontrollably since my first attempts at alternative medication. Within ten minutes of applying same to a perfectly tuned bodhran, the poor critter spontaneously combusted. My occarina eloped with a hedgehog during a session. Three (count 'em) THREE banjos went all funny on me. (one was a tenor - the other two cost even more) So please think carefully about possible side effects before embarking on any music enhancing experiences. I use good old fashioned drugs, myself. (Ah! Hello matron, is it time?) |
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05 Apr 03 - 09:19 AM (#926618) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: kendall it works. |
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05 Apr 03 - 09:38 AM (#926628) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Alice I have a friend who practices acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. Her degree is from San Diego Pacific College of Oriental Medicine. When we lived in the same town, I traded a painting for treatments, so I had quite a few experiences with acupuncture. My opinion is that the only effect was that it felt good to lie quietly in a dimly lit room, have someone care about talking to me, and feel like I could relax for a bit. The acupuncture itself I think had nothing but a possible placebo effect. My father used to go to a Chinese practitioner for acupuncture for his arthritis. The same result for him, no effect from the treatment except to feel he was trying everything he could try. Since my personal experience with it, I looked for more evidence of its effectiveness or lack of effectiveness. Here is one article: Click here |
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05 Apr 03 - 09:54 AM (#926636) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Alice Here is a bit more: The National Council Against Health Fraud has concluded: - Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment. - Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge. - Research during the past 20 years has not demonstrated that acupuncture is effective against any disease. - Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, conditioning, and other psychologic mechanisms. - The use of acupuncture should be restricted to appropriate research settings. - Insurance companies should not be required by law to cover acupuncture treatment. - Licensure of lay acupuncturists should be phased out. - Consumers who wish to try acupuncture should discuss their situation with a knowledgeable physician who has no commercial interest. |
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05 Apr 03 - 10:35 AM (#926658) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: mack/misophist Add to that the fact that the NIH endorsement of acupuncture came only as a result of loading the commitee with as many pros as they could find and waiting for a day when most of the other members were absent to hold the vote. Any treatment that has to use skulduggery to be recognized must be bugus. You might also want to check how chiropractic became an accepted Worker's Comp treatment. |
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05 Apr 03 - 11:15 AM (#926669) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Little Hawk Acupuncture? It works. It works very well indeed. I have personally observed a good friend (Hesperis) permanently CURED of several severe, lifelong allergies by acupuncture. Cured in ONE day by ONE treatment. One treatment for each particular allergen. Debunking of acupuncture is practiced by those who are either totally ignorant of the subject OR who are on the payroll of the major drug companies, who have a stranglehold on the AMA and are not about to release it while they can still make billions filling people with needless and often toxic drugs. A little reading of some of the excellent literature on acupuncture would quickly serve to point out how it works. The body is not a mere physical structure...it is an ALIVE structure, filled with flowing, coherent paths of energy, and the acupuncture assists those energy flows in a very specific manner, depending on where and how the needles are inserted. Acupressure (without needles) works in a similar fashion, and is also quite effective. For those who view the body as merely a spiritless hunk of meat, this sounds spurious. Well, to a brain that's merely a hunk of meat, a lot of things sound spurious, I suppose. The only important thing with acupuncture is...find a good practitioner...and use it appropriately. Like other methods of treatment, it is not a cure-all. - LH |
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05 Apr 03 - 11:26 AM (#926676) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: catspaw49 Hawk, I was wondering........Will accupunture cure fear of needles? Spaw |
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05 Apr 03 - 12:22 PM (#926711) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: katlaughing Thank you, Little Hawk. One would think others might take into account over 2,000 years of practice and efficacy. The above negative testimonies are stark reminders, also, of how much our mental attitude can effect our physical body, no matter what treatment we choose. There are many, many refutations of the derisive reviews mentioned above. Since I don't want to get into a pissing match, I will not post them, but will say a search on google comes up with several. Thank goodness we are not all so close-minded. kat |
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05 Apr 03 - 12:30 PM (#926716) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: John MacKenzie Another one of your sharp and/or pointed remarks there Spaw. "needle nidle no", as Neddy used to say. Giok |
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05 Apr 03 - 12:41 PM (#926724) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: kendall It is not meant to cure disease. Any reputable practisioner will tell you it is not a cure all. |
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05 Apr 03 - 01:18 PM (#926739) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,pdc The following quote: "Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge." Acupuncture was used in China for thousands of years prior to the development of Western medicine. I don't think it would have lasted that long if it wasn't effective. Further, there is a link to an article by Stephen Barrett. You have to be careful of this man -- although I don't know who, if anyone, is sponsoring him, he rants against any medical procedure which is not mainstream western medicine. You might want to check out some of his other negative reviews, besides the one on acupuncture. He holds only one perspective on medicine. |
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05 Apr 03 - 02:24 PM (#926770) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Peg Catspaw: I have a SEVERE needle phobia and was very nervous about my first acupuncture treatment (for severe back muscle spasm). I am happy to report that the needles are tiny and you don't even feel them (provided the practiitoner is experienced)...my first acupuntcurist walked me through it and was very understanding of this phobia which is a common one I understand. Since then I got a tattoo! (also stressful but I had a nice and sensitive tattoo artist) I agree with those who say that anyone who "poo-poos" acupuncture or other alternative treatments (including chiropractic, ayurveda, herbalism, aromatherapy, hydrotherapy and homeopathy, forms of which have been used for thousands of years) simply haven't tried them or dont know much about them. That is NOT to say that there aren't ineffectual practitioners of some of these forms of healing; this may be due in part to the regulatory requirements demanded for one to practice these forms of healing; one does not normally need a license from an accredited institution for some of them (this varies by state, or by country; in the UK for example, aromatherapists can receive their tarining under the auspices of a recognized agency and anyone without these credentials is not likely to get as many clients). Some of these forms of healing rely upon holding a holistic awareness that the client is expected to share in; others work purely on the basis of their physiological effects. But need I remind anyone that the most "scientific" of western/allopathic methods for healing (including radical surgery, drugs, and radiation) won't work unless the patient is actively involved with and committed to the healing process... As Kendall points out, acupuncture is not meant specifically to treat "disease." All holistic methods are meant as preventive or interventionary treatments to address the underlying CAUSE of disease before it becomes acute. Western/allopathic medicine treats symptoms, often when they have progressed far enough to be serious...holistic medicine treats the body/mind in ways the restore the body's balance and overall health; hence the emphasis upon nutrition, relaxation therapies, and lifetsyle changes to incorporate stress reduction, exercise, herbs, and other more subtle (but very effective) forms of curative therapy. One reason many people don't believe in alternative medicine is that they often turn to it after having tried everything western medicine has to offer. To try and treat cancer, for example, with a raw foods diet, herbs and yoga *after* a course of surgery, chemotherapy or radiation will be pointless, because the body will be in such a traumatized state after those invasive, radical procedures. The diet, herbs and relaxation can help the body heal after these other treatments, and are thus an important augmentative therapy...but patients interested in alternative therapy should try to find doctors who are at least aware of them and ask their advice about trying these more subtle therapies before the more radical western methods are employed...in other words, a pre-cencerous diagnosis indicates one should alter one's lifestyle in ways to eliminate toxins, encourage emotional health, and restore balance to the systems of the body: this means quitting all poisons (cigarettes, alcohol, sugar and processed foods), avoiding stress, and focusing on health. This approach CAN and DOES work; but it must be implemented before the body is in crisis. The reliance upon symptom-oriented treatments is, in my opinion (though I am not a doctor), what causes more cases of acute disease. A doctor who prescribes a laxative for constipation, an antacid for heartburn, or sleeping pills for insomnia is going to make his patient sicker in the long run, because he/she is not addressing the CAUSE of the disease, but only the discomort symptomatic of it...the ancient healers always said "Let food be your medicine." Modern medical school training does not even cover, let alone focus on, nutritional advice as a viable mode of treatment. And what are the major medical problems of the industrialized western world? Heart disease/cardiovascular problems Diabetes Cancer Auto-immune disorders Obesity (which factors in with the above) Depression ALL of these can be treated and often cured with lifestyle changes including diet and exercise. ...at the risk of sounding like an ignorant tree-hugger: We have forgotten how to live upon the earth, and we are poisoning the very sources of vibrant health that are there for the growing and harvesting...and ignoring the very basic needs of the human body, which was designed to MOVE and find its own food, not to sit in a chair and dial up for a pizza. (not to say I don't enjoy an occasional pizza) peg |
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05 Apr 03 - 04:42 PM (#926832) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: katlaughing Well said, Peg!! Thank you!! |
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05 Apr 03 - 05:12 PM (#926848) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Catherine Jayne I have accupunture and it's wonderful. I definately reccommend it. My Uncle practices accupunture and put my mind at rest the first time I had it done due to a fear of needles and I had convinced myself that it wouLd hurt...how wrong was I??? Very!! Cat |
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05 Apr 03 - 06:05 PM (#926880) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Mudlark Especially now that disposable needles are used, it seems silly not to try accupuncture. It's far less invasive than most allopathic procedures, and no side effects, unlike any drug one might take. Also, unlike some treatments/drugs that supposedly take 4-8 wks for achieve effect, if accupuncture is going to work it will do so within a treatment or two. It doesn't cure death, but it can make life a lot more pleasant if your body is stressed. |
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05 Apr 03 - 07:52 PM (#926934) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Little Hawk The dachshund, Valdy, is very afraid of needles, Spaw. I had not thought to try acupuncture on him to cure the fear of needles. Thank you for the suggestion. We'll see how it goes... - LH |
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05 Apr 03 - 09:46 PM (#926987) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Blackcatter I too was afraid of needles and wanted to over come that in order to begin donating blood. I went a good friend of 10 years who went through 3 years of training in Chinese medicine and her acupunture treatments not only helped my alergies it helped me with my fear of needles as well. The next time you have a headache take a look at your right thumb. Imagine that the nail is the back of your head and the pad the front. Find the corresponding point to your headache location on your thumb and press firmly in that location with another finger. You'll likely see that your headache will subside. For some it will do so for as long as you use pressure, for others, after a minute or so, it will go away. I have two friends who are MDs and another friend who is a psychologist. I'll three reccommend that some of their patients try accupunture and other Chinese medicine. They have no vested interest in it. So - does anyone have too much liver chi, like I do? |
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06 Apr 03 - 12:29 AM (#927059) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Little Hawk Excellent summary, Peg! - LH |
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06 Apr 03 - 10:33 AM (#927219) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,Mary V. If anyone is interested to discuss more... my email is meverc@aol.com Would be happy to correspond with you... Thanks for all the responses. |
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08 Apr 03 - 05:56 PM (#928983) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,Guest.....Mary REBECCA.... here is the responses on accupuncture. I thought they were very interesting . |
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08 Apr 03 - 07:47 PM (#929082) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,guest I had very good results after one accupuncture. It was recommended by a friend, whose mother is 80 and finally found relief from constant pain in her knee. |
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09 Apr 03 - 06:02 AM (#929335) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Wolfgang Acupuncture for chronic low back pain: diagnosis and treatment patterns among acupuncturists evaluating the same patient. (a recent article) Seven acupuncturists agreed considerably in the diagnoses for the same patient with chronic low back pain, but treatment recommendations varied substantially. Review of randomised controlled trials of traditional Chinese medicine (the most recent review article I have located) Adverse events following acupuncture: prospective survey of 32 000 consultations with doctors and physiotherapists (A recent study about risks) Wolfgang |
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09 Apr 03 - 07:02 AM (#929360) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,Bagpuss Spaw - if you are afraid of needles, you could always try voodoo acupuncture. I don't know much about the theories it is based on, but I'm sure I have read a fair amount of research showing its efficacy for problems like nausea and pain. I think some researchers are focussing on the endorphin system for a possible method by which it may have some of its effects. |
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10 Apr 03 - 05:43 AM (#930296) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Gurney Way off the serious subject.. We were watching the TV series CSI and a facial construction on a skull when my better half thoughtfully commented "That acupuncturist is wasting his time!" It took a second for the penny to drop. |
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10 Apr 03 - 07:53 PM (#930759) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,ozmacca I've always worried about anybody who claims to be practicing ANY kind of medicine, conventional, alternative, or whatever. I want somebody treating me who got it right and who doesn't need to practice. |
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10 Apr 03 - 10:06 PM (#930819) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: John Hardly my dogs have been getting acupunture treatment for about 6 months now. It seems to be helping ou female with her fears (though some essential oils seem to be even more effective than the acupunture). The other (my old guy) we're hoping to give some relief from his achin' ol' bones. Some times I think it's worth it -- others just not sure -- no way to tell. They've given us a lot in their short lives -- we just try our best to give some back. |
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11 Apr 03 - 01:01 AM (#930899) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Peg interestingly enough, animals often respond extrmeley well to alternative treatments. One reason may be that they do not have the mental blocks (skeptisicm, fear) to it that humans do. I do not tend to think of Reiki as a form of healing with real physiological effects..but when it was performed on my injured cat (who could not move his back legs for weeks after a car accident, and I was told he might never walk again becauseof a spinal injury) and the NEXT DAY he started being able to stand on his rear legs, and soon was walking again, I was sold... Animals respond well to aromatherapy, too but with cats one has to be careful. There is a great video about the pioneer in natural veterinary care, Juliet de Bairicli-Levy, called Juliet of the Herbs. Sometimes they show it on PBS. Amazing stuff. |
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11 Apr 03 - 10:15 AM (#931119) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST HI CATSPHIDDLE... Any chance ...you would email me at meverc@aol.com I would love to discuss accupuncture more. I am so impressed with the results.. The man I go to has been doing accupuncture for 22 years in Wisconsin. He comes highly recommended by others with wonderful results. I suppose like anything it may not be for everyone but it is for me. |
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11 Apr 03 - 07:23 PM (#931452) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,Steve and Mary Do accupucturists have accupuncture themselves? I am so curious to know this. |
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14 Apr 03 - 05:52 PM (#933445) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Michael Don't see the point myself. |
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14 Apr 03 - 08:48 PM (#933564) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,pdc Ignore Michael -- he's just needling you. |
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15 Apr 03 - 02:40 PM (#934090) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Little Hawk Yes, they do get acupuncture themselves, if they need it. Two of the best practitioners I know are a Chinese couple in Toronto. It's convenient when your marriage partner is in the practice too. - LH |
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15 Apr 03 - 04:21 PM (#934165) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Catherine Jayne Email on its way to you Guest |
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15 Apr 03 - 06:06 PM (#934259) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Don Firth I wish I could quote it exactly. I can't find my copy and it's been years since I read it. But in Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven's The Mote in God's Eye, an interesting conversation takes place between two of the minor characters. They're in a shuttle-pod, and need to penetrate the energy shield of the star ship they are hovering near. One of them has a wild idea. He explains it to his friend. The friend says, "Well, it might work! But it's such a damn-fool idea! It's definitely not in the book!" The one with the idea responds, "Yeah, but remember, the book is made up mostly of damn-fool ideas that worked!" And sometimes whether the damn-fool idea that works ever gets into the book depends on who's editing the book. Don Firth |
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15 Apr 03 - 06:22 PM (#934268) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: katlaughing Found this quote from the book on the net, Don. Not quite the same, but close: It's a nitwit idea. Nitwit ideas are for emergencies. The rest of the time you go by the Book, which is mostly a collection of nitwit ideas that worked. I like them both.:-) |
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15 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM (#934278) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Don Firth That's it! Thanks, kat! Don Firth |
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16 Apr 03 - 07:47 AM (#934629) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: hesperis The Oriental couple in Toronto (Hawk, are you sure they're Chinese? I thought they might have been Korean or something...) went through traiing in acupuncture and acupressure, then went through a specific course on treating allergies. In that course, you have to cure your own allergies and the allergies of family and friends before you can graduate the advanced course of study. It isn't supposed to hurt at all. However, several times, I did have pain during the treatment. As soon as I told them I was experiencing pain they either used a slightly different pressure or added another needle or two to the area, and it was better. They also refused to treat items which I was tested at 4+ allergic to by normal testing, saying that the treatment could be fatal until I am stronger, and I must get rid of smaller allergies first. After having had 23 treatments I am definitely getting stronger. I can eat nuts and milk again, no longer have diarrhea after ingesting vitamin C, and it is much less of a struggle to assimilate enough iron each month. Those are just a few. I would definitely recommend that someone who is interested in wellness find a good acupuncturist and at least try it. |
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13 Nov 08 - 06:18 PM (#2493182) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Ed T Science News:Placebo Acupuncture Is Associated With Higher Pregnancy Rate After IVF Than Real Acupuncture http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081112194913.htm |
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13 Nov 08 - 07:35 PM (#2493259) Subject: RE: BS: Accupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: katlaughing Hard to see how this could be accurate (maybe I am thinking too literally): In this study, the researchers used a placebo needle that looked identical to a real acupuncture needle, but which was blunt and retracted into the handle of the needle when pressed on the skin, while still giving the appearance and sensation of entering the skin. In real acupuncture, the needles remain in the skin for a certain amount of time. With the "placebo" needle retracting into the handle, there would presumably be nothing left in the skin which would prove it was a false needle. This sounds interesting, regardless: Dr Ng gave two possible explanations for the results: "Placebo acupuncture is similar to acupressure and therefore is good enough to improve the pregnancy rate. Or else, it's possible that real acupuncture may, in some way, reduce the pregnancy rate of acupuncture. "So far there is no evidence that real acupuncture would adversely affect IVF outcomes because, in a previous meta-analysis of several acupuncture studies, the pregnancy rate was higher in the acupuncture groups than in the control groups. However, we cannot draw a firm conclusion about this from our current study as we did not compare the two groups with a third control group patients who received neither forms of acupuncture. Further studies should be conducted to compare placebo or non-invasive acupuncture and controls without acupuncture." |
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14 Nov 08 - 06:35 AM (#2493549) Subject: RE: BS: Acupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Paul Burke Or, more likely, that with the tiny sample size (370 patients), any effect either way is lost in the noise. No group without any treatment either. |
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31 Dec 08 - 04:13 AM (#2528079) Subject: RE: BS: Acupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: CarolC After a lifetime of doctors not being able to fix what ailed me (including an approximately ten year period in which I was almost completely bedridden), and after trying many alternative healing methods without success, I have had five acupuncture treatments for allergies, and I am starting to get well. I just ate corn today without getting very sick for the first time in years. I can take multiple vitamins without getting sick for the first time in years as well, and for the first time in years, I am able to eat beans without having to take a digestive enzyme and not get wicked indigestion, which means that I'm able to digest and assimilate food more effectively than I have been. I still have treatments for several allergies that I'm going to need, but this has been a very good start. I can now eat all kinds of food that just a few weeks ago I could not eat. I've been sick to one degree or another for thirty-eight years, and for the first time in many years, I can see the possibility that I can actually become healthy. I had some experience with an acupuncturist about 20 years ago, and that one didn't help me at all. But he wasn't trained in allergy elimination and back then I didn't understand that my health problems were caused by allergies. I'm sure there are many people who have had acupuncture that hasn't helped them, but anyone who makes blanket statements that acupuncture doesn't work really doesn't know what they're talking about. |
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31 Dec 08 - 04:24 AM (#2528083) Subject: RE: BS: Acupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: Hawker Well Ive had accupuncture on 3 occasions, once on the neck, following a sporting injury , which brought more relief than the months of traction ever did and then when my tennis elbow flared up a couple of years ago, my GP sent me to another GP in the practise who did accupuncture, as I take a lot of drugs for various heart ailments she thought it was the preferred treatment. It did take the pain away after 2 sessions, but I had to go back for more this year, again it has worked. Its one of those try it, maybe it doesnt work for everyoe but one should never dismiss an option until tried, and when it doesnt work for one thing, it may still be effective for another. Cheers, Lucy |
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20 Aug 11 - 04:53 PM (#3210064) Subject: RE: BS: Acupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: gnu I just got the hiccups from drinking lemon juice in a glass of beer. (Lemon juice injested moderately, say, 6 drops per day, will help to prevent various stones... kidney, gall, parotid... and I KNOW about parotid stones... BAD news. Them SOBs can kill ya.) Mum was astounded when I said, "No problem, I'll get rid of them.", and put my right index finger between my eybrows and applied a slight pressure. Gone. Immediately. I said that acupuncture and such is not entirely hokum. She still doesn't believe me, even tho I ain't hiccupin any more and she WATCHED me do it. |
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21 Aug 11 - 10:43 AM (#3210350) Subject: RE: BS: Acupuncture, are you familiar with it.. From: GUEST,999 It worked for me. |