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10 May 03 - 10:40 PM (#950295) Subject: English (?) Song ID Request From: masato sakurai Does anyone know this tune? This was introduced into Japan in 1889 in a Japanese schoolsong book with newly written Japanese lyrics as "Ryohaku" (Loneliness on a Journey), and later with another set of lyrics as "Toodai-mori" (The Lighthouse Keeper). I believe the Japanese words have nothing in common with the original. The tune has been said to be "English melody," but I can't identify it. Any info (on the tune, title, original words, composer, or sources) will be appreciated. X:1 T:Ryohaku (a.k.a. Toodai-mori) M:6/8 L:1/8 K:Bb F|d2d d2B|cBG F2F|B2B Bcd|c3-c2F|d2d d2B|cBG F2F|B2B ABc|B3-B2B| c2c c2c|d2d d2d|e2d dcB|c3-c2F|d2d d2B|cBG F2F|B2B ABc|B3-B2|] If you are not familar with ABC, use an ABC to staff notation converter (ABC Convert-A-Matic converts it to MIDI too). ~Masato |
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13 May 03 - 06:39 AM (#951628) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: masato sakurai refresh Here's a MIDI (from a Japanese site). |
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13 May 03 - 08:30 AM (#951680) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: greg stephens Sorry, masato, can't help on this one. I've had a whistle at the tune from the abc, and it sounds like a nursery-rhyme tune. From dim recesses of memory the words "O where o where is my little dog gone" came to me, but the only version I can find in a book has a vaguely similar sort of tune, but not that close. I'll bet it will turn up in a book of Victorian nursery rhymes eventually. |
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13 May 03 - 09:17 AM (#951704) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Noreen Will give it a listen at home later, masato- can't do so at work! |
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13 May 03 - 10:45 AM (#951760) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Sorcha I can almost hear both Where has my little dog gone, and parts of My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean. |
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13 May 03 - 11:20 AM (#951787) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Malcolm Douglas Rather like the first part of The Rose of Allendale; Victorian parlour ballad fare, at a guess. |
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13 May 03 - 11:27 AM (#951794) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: greg stephens An interesting (if primitive)example of a tune on the very famous chord sequence I IV I V I !V !-V I. Often referred to as the "Gregory Walker" sequence from its first(??) known 16th century example. Members of the family include Jesse James, Swanee River, Dvorak's Humoresque etc etc. Come to think of it, I've never actually heard Gregory Walker, just read about it. Just waffling here, covering up the fact that I can't identify the tune. |
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13 May 03 - 12:08 PM (#951819) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: masato sakurai Thanks a lot, everyone. "Rose of Allendale" (especially a Scottish version HERE) somewhat resembles it, but not the one. Greg, I've read about "Gregory Walker" in Van der Merwe's book Origins of the Popular Style, too. ~Masato |
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17 Jun 03 - 10:51 AM (#967620) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: masato sakurai refresh |
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18 Jun 03 - 01:07 PM (#968507) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Helen It sounds like Belmont to me. It's a Welsh (I think) hymn. And believe me, was it hard to find, because I couldn't remember any of the words, and I had to go searching among my paper copies in my box of music - which is nowhere near as efficientm i.e. quick and easy as searching the 'Net. Helen |
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18 Jun 03 - 01:15 PM (#968510) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Helen There appears to be a few different sets of lyrics to this hymn but these are the lyrics I learned Helen |
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18 Jun 03 - 10:15 PM (#968747) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: GUEST,Q I am almost certain that it is a hymn tune, which I dimly remember. Belmont is similar- perhaps the tunes are related. There is an LP of the Glasgow Orpheus Choir, with Belmont as one of the tracks- I may have it if it wasn't borrowed. Will check. Belmont Hymn, played by a brass band, at: Belmont |
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18 Jun 03 - 10:29 PM (#968748) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: GUEST,Q Not Belmont. The Glasgow Orpheus rendition is track 1 on Capitol LP T6003. |
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19 Jun 03 - 08:07 AM (#968948) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: masato sakurai Helen and GUEST Q, thank you very much. I feel we are one step coming close to it. A hymn tune seems to be a good suggestion, because some hymn tunes (such as "What a Friend We Have in Jesus") were adopted in school songbooks at that time, "disguised" as secular songs with completely different non-religious words. I'll look into Japanese hymnals published in those days. I saw an edition (Meiji Shooka Bassui Shoogaku Shooka, 1895, pp. 42-43) containing this song at Digital Library from the Meiji Era (Japanese only) HERE (National Diet Library of Japan), where there is no mention of its source at all. BELMONT is the tune of "The Spirit breathes upon the Word" (William Cowper) in Japanese hymnals: Sanbika Dai-Ni-hen (1974, No. 34) and Sanbika 21 (1997, No. 54), with different translations. There seems to be no one here in Japan who suggests the relation between the two tunes. ~Masato |
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19 Jun 03 - 08:17 AM (#968960) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Noreen I don't recognise the tune at all, sorry. |
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19 Jun 03 - 03:09 PM (#969248) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: GUEST,Q Found a tinkly, upbeat midi here. Ryohaku "Words by T. Ohwada English Folk Song." |
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19 Jun 03 - 03:31 PM (#969257) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: Helen Now when I listen to the tune, I do hear more of the Rose of Allandale tune. Discussion of the tune of the Rose of Allandale There are a lot of threads about this song, but this thread is specifically about the origins of the tune, and includes a link to the sheet music of the original 1835 tune. Helen |
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30 Aug 03 - 01:23 AM (#1010636) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: masato sakurai I have just found the original in J.P. McCaskey's Franklin Square Song Collection: Two Hundred Favorite Songs and Hymns for Schools and Homes, Nursery and Fireside, No. 1 (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1881, p. 9). There's no mention of author/composer/source. Meter is 6/8, but is not indicated on the score. X:2 T:The Golden Rule M:6/8 L:1/8 B:J.P. McCaskey, Franklin Square Song Collection, No. 1 (1881, p. 9) K:Bb F|d2 d d2 B|cB G F2 F|B2 B Bc d|c3-c2 F| w:The gol-en rule, the gold - en rule, Oh, that's the law_ for me;_ Were w:Were this the rule, in har - mo-ny Our lives would pass_ a-way;_ And d2 d d2B|cB G F2 F|B2 B AB c|B3-B2 B| w:this the law for all_ the world, How hap-py we_ should be._ The w:none would suf-fer, none _ be poor, And none their trust_ be-tray. c2 c c2 c|d2 d d2 d|e2 d dc B|c3-c2 F| w:gold-en rule, the gold-en rule, Oh, that's the law_ for me;_ To d2 d d2 B|cB G F2 F|B2 B AB c|B3-B2|] w:do to oth-ers as_ I would That they should do_ to me._ |
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27 Mar 06 - 12:39 AM (#1703566) Subject: RE: English (?) Song ID Req: Ryohaku From: GUEST X:2 T:The Golden Rule M:6/8 L:1/8 B:J.P. McCaskey, Franklin Square Song Collection, No. 1 (1881, p. 9) K:Bb F|d2 d d2 B|cB G F2 F|B2 B Bc d|c3-c2 F| w:The gol-en rule, the gold - en rule, Oh, that's the law_ for me;_ Were w:Were this the rule, in har - mo-ny Our lives would pass_ a-way;_ And d2 d d2B|cB G F2 F|B2 B AB c|B3-B2 B| w:this the law for all_ the world, How hap-py we_ should be._ The w:none would suf-fer, none _ be poor, And none their trust_ be-tray. c2 c c2 c|d2 d d2 d|e2 d dc B|c3-c2 F| w:gold-en rule, the gold-en rule, Oh, that's the law_ for me;_ To d2 d d2 B|cB G F2 F|B2 B AB c|B3-B2|] w:do to oth-ers as_ I would That they should do_ to me._ |