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16 Jul 03 - 08:05 PM (#984771) Subject: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Let your voice be heard at: Blog For America Alice |
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16 Jul 03 - 08:38 PM (#984792) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert Thanks, Alice. I've made no bones about being interested in Howard Dean, even if I am a Green... Bobert |
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16 Jul 03 - 09:13 PM (#984805) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: kendall I have also been a Dean supporter. I even sent a contribution. However, my MAIN interest is defeating Bush, and I'm afraid Dean is too far left to attract enough votes. |
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17 Jul 03 - 12:30 AM (#984896) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice As I see all the moderates, republicans and independents joining up around the country for Dean volunteer activities and posting to the blog, this campaign is a phenomenon of people feeling energized by a man they can respect. Again and again, the comments from people are that they have never felt like a politician could be trusted or that they would want to campaign for anyone until they got to know about Howard Dean. He has backbone to stand up about Iraq when the other Dems caved to save their D.C. careers. He's intelligent, fiscally conservative, supporting of the people running the country, not the special interests. Most of his funds have been an average donation of under $100, and he raised over 7 million that way. It's a phenomenon of people seeking him out to help the campaign rather than his staff having to find volunteers. People are coming in droves to www.meetup.com to help Dean. About 500 people a day sign up to meet others face to face in their community the first Wed of each month to plan campaign events. check out the numbers at www.meetup.com |
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17 Jul 03 - 12:40 AM (#984901) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: LadyJean Dear Mr. Dean, don't make McGovern's mistake, and focus on the kids. There are plenty of us who came of age in the sixties, and have the experience to back up our idealism. Call on us too! |
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17 Jul 03 - 12:47 AM (#984903) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Naemanson I always liked the philosophy that anyone who WANTS to be president should never be allowed in the office. We should draft someone who will fight tooth and nail to stay away from it. Be that as it may, I agree with Kendall. The main purpose of this next election should be to get the Texas Village Idiot out of the oval office. |
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17 Jul 03 - 12:49 AM (#984904) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice My point is that I think Dean is the only one who CAN get Bush out of office. alice |
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17 Jul 03 - 12:54 AM (#984906) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice LadyJean, most of the people who showed up for our local Meetup were about my age and older (I'm 51). We all arrived there because we were curious about getting involved. None of us were connected to the official campaign. That is the way people are organizing all over the country. About 63,000 people so far, just average folks who want to get Bush out and are energized by someone who is telling them that the small campaign donations and individual voters are the people who need to take hold of that power. To compare the other candidates, Kerry has 6,400 people signed up at Meetup.com, and some of those have switched over to Dean. |
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17 Jul 03 - 01:20 AM (#984915) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Quote from the Dean blog where they are discussing a White House photo released during State of the Union, showing Bush going over the speech word for word "Is that a pencil in his hand, or a smoking gun?" |
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17 Jul 03 - 08:08 AM (#985061) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: kendall Any political scientist will tell you about the "Bell curve". If you are too far from the middle of the road, you don't get the votes. Not enough anyway. I have asked him when he is going to tell us the truth about resident Bush's military career, no answer. |
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17 Jul 03 - 09:10 AM (#985105) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Many in Vermont would tell you that Dean is very middle of the road. |
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17 Jul 03 - 09:42 AM (#985122) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Some reasons I think Dean is more moderate than the media spin portrays: Dean stated in his July 2 NPR interview, "I think I can win, in fact, I think I may be the only Democrat that can win. And the reason for that is, that, first of all, we have 38,000 [this has grown to 195,519 signed up as of July 16] volunteers in... all the 50 states. The next person, last time I saw, had 1,300. There is an enormous hunger in this country, not just by Democrats, but by independents, to see somebody in the White House who stands up for principles that are good for the country, centrist principles. This president has moved so far right that our guys have chased after him trying to get themselves elected....Balanced budged amendment is something that is political, I've publicly said that it's not great public policy, but we may have to have it anyway because you can't trust the Republicans with your money. And that's true, this president is using Argentina as his fiscal model: borrow and spend, borrow and spend, borrow and spend. It turns out the Republicans pushed the balanced budget but they never balanced budgets.They cut taxes, they cut services, they raise your middle class property taxes, but they never balance budgets and that's why we may need a balanced budget amendment. I am absolutely determined to balance the budget, I'm a complete deficit hawk, I had balanced budgets when I was governor, and we don't have any requirement to have a balanced budget. We're the only state in the country that has no statutory requirement. We put money aside, we had small tax cuts, and we paid off a quarter of our debt, going from the worst bond rating to the best bond rating in New England during the time I was governor. Now, we're not cutting K through 12, we're not cutting higher education, we're not cutting kids-only health care. If the federal government were run like that, I think Americans would be much better off...." end quote. You can read the entire interview at http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/democrats2004/transcripts/dean_trans.html |
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17 Jul 03 - 09:55 AM (#985135) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice The media has really smeared Dean with the "too liberal" label, a tactic to keep Bush in office. Governor Dean founded The Fund For A Healthy America to support the principles of fiscal stability, universal health insurance, better environmental protection, and equality for all Americans. From his bio at the Fund site, here is part of his record in Vermont: quote "A common sense moderate who firmly believes that social justice can only be accomplished through strong financial management, Gov. Dean has cut the income tax twice, removed the sales tax on most clothing, and reduced the state's long-term debt. Not only did the governor pay off an inherited $70 million deficit, he worked with lawmakers to build "rainy day" reserves to help the state through any future economic downturn. During the Dean tenure, more than 41,000 new jobs have been created, the state's minimum wage has climbed twice, incentive programs have expanded to help downtowns attract new businesses, and tax incentives were created to attract and keep new companies. If fiscal management is Gov. Dean's trademark, improving the lives of Vermont's children is his passion. A physician, Gov. Dean strengthened the Dr. Dynasaur program to guarantee health coverage to virtually every child in Vermont age 18 and under. Vermont has one of the lowest uninsured rates in the country -- and highest rates of immunized children. Gov. Dean has expanded programs to help seniors afford prescription drugs, and signed into law one of the toughest managed care consumer protections in the U.S. It is preservation of Vermont's precious natural resources and landscapesthat the governor considers his legacy. Gov. Dean worked with local communities and the federal government to preserve more than one million acres of farmland, shorefront, working forests and wilderness. Under the Dean administration, 76 of the state's leaking landfills were safely closed, and Vermont became a leader in the move to reduce mercury pollution and stop power plants from polluting the air. Gov. Dean has created bikeways, lead the effort to restore commuter rail service in Vermont, and lead a strong, coordinated attack on sprawl. Working with lawmakers, prosecutors, judges and law enforcement, Gov. Dean has cracked down on violent crime in Vermont and ensured that violent felons spend time behind bars. He has fought to protect family farms, increased the number of women and minorities in judgeships and other prominent positions, cracked down on domestic violence, and put Vermont in the forefront for child support collections." end quote Here is a link to Fund For A Healthy America.http://www.fundforahealthyamerica.com/ |
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17 Jul 03 - 09:59 AM (#985139) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Dean's record in Vermont shows he is not too liberal to be elected. Here are press quotes from 2001. "Howard Dean is Vermont's Harry Truman. Dean, like Truman, is a no-nonsense, plain-speaking guy who loves to give 'em hell. ... He defies labels, following a pragmatic not partisan path. ... Our first baby-boomer governor harkens to a time gone by, a time when families were strong and values deep. He is patriotic, a strong law and order man who believes in the American dream and expects people to do their best to climb the ladder." The Associated Press - September 9, 2001 Column by Vermont Bureau Chief Christopher Graff "This equal emphasis on creating jobs, balancing budgets and expanding government's social activism sums up Dean's approach to the office he has held longer than anyone in this century. A decade later, it's hard to think of another politician who could have handled the job so successfully for so long." The Burlington Free Press (VT) - August 13, 2001 |
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17 Jul 03 - 10:12 AM (#985145) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: TIA Go Alice! I'm on board. |
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17 Jul 03 - 10:14 AM (#985146) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice More Dean press releases with his stand on issues: Dean Calls for Environmental Leadership and Openness in Government Text of "Restoring American Leadership"; Delivered 6/25/03 to the Council on Foreign Relations, Washington, DC quote in part... "I believed then and I believe now that removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq was a just cause. But not every just cause requires that we go to war, especially with inadequate planning and without maximum support. The Bush administration led us into war without convincing evidence that an imminent threat existed, without a strategy for securing nuclear, chemical and biological materials, without a plan for financing reconstruction, and without a clue how to consolidate the peace or unite the Iraqi people in support of democracy. Today we face three critical problems, all connected with the manner in which we prosecuted the war: the first is accounting for the weapons of mass destruction, vital because of the implications for our own security as well as for the integrity and credibility of the United States and its leaders in the eyes of the world...." complete text of Dean's Council on Foreign Relations speech regarding Iraq at the above link. |
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17 Jul 03 - 02:06 PM (#985366) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth Alice, thanks for posting the links! From what I know of Kendall, I admire him greatly, but I'm afraid I have to take issue with him on his statement, ". . . I'm afraid Dean is too far left to attract enough votes." I can do no better than to quote Harry Truman who said, "When voters are given a choice between voting for a Republican, or a Democrat who acts like a Republican, they'll vote for the Republican every time." I think one of the reasons so few people in this country vote (at least according to my unscientific personal survey, where I hear people saying, "What the hell difference would it make? They're all the same anyway!") is that what they what is a clear-cut alternative, not someone who is trying to keep a foot in both camps. Another quote (of a somewhat folksie nature): "The only things I ever see in the 'middle of the road' are a dead skunk and a yellow stripe!" A clear choice. Not Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. In any case, I'd support SpongeBob SquarePants if I thought he could get Bush and Company out of there. Don Firth |
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17 Jul 03 - 03:47 PM (#985414) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: kendall I hope Dean does make it. I like him, but, we will see. |
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17 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM (#985591) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: McGrath of Harlow Anyone thought of having Bill Clinton run as Vice President for whoever gets to be Democrat candidate? |
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17 Jul 03 - 09:06 PM (#985607) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert I gotta agree with, Don. Dean is the *only* candidate that can beat Bush because, at least on the surface, he represents a different set of values and ideals. I'm still Green and plan on working for the Green Party but am hepefull that a more sucessfull vote brokering program can be in place this time around so that the Greens can get their 5% and the US can get Bush the heck out! Bobert |
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17 Jul 03 - 10:25 PM (#985645) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: TIA Hey Don Firth - if all you ever see in the middle of the road is a dead skunk and a yellow stripe, you must have missed this. Gives new meaning to "not my job". |
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17 Jul 03 - 10:48 PM (#985651) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Frankham He may have criticized Bush for his handling of the Iraq war but I'm not convinced that he wouldn't have gone after Sadam militarilly. I'm unclear as to his position on gun control, also. He seems to favor "the right to bear arms" which might put him in the gun lobby pocket. I think I have to go with Kendall on this, though. He will appear too "rad" for the general population. Bush is winning this propagand war, unfortunately. If Dean turns up as the candidate of choice for the Democratic party I will support him as "the lesser of two evils". It may be that he is more of a populist than I think. But I have reservations about him based on his statements about being pro-Israel and not enough balance on the Middle East situation. Frank Hamilton |
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17 Jul 03 - 10:59 PM (#985657) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Today, Dean now has over 200,000 people signed up to his email list. These people come from all 50 states. These are people who are suddenly energized by a candidate they can respect. They are seeking the campaign. No other candidate can show that kind of grassroots power this early in the campaign. It is phenomenal. If you want to sign up for the email list, here is the link: deanforamerica signup As of his July 2 NPR interview there were 38,000, now there are over 200,000. Alice |
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17 Jul 03 - 11:07 PM (#985659) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Frank, Dean has stated that gun control is an issue for each state depending on the crime situation in each locality. Rural areas like Montana are very different than inner city gang areas. He is an advocate for appropriate gun legislation designed for each community/state. Go to the Dean blog and you will see discussions of the Israel issue as well as all other political points of view. Dean is not in any lobby pocket, guns or Israel or any other. The whole focus of his campaign is to get special interest influence out of campaigns and government as much as possible. That is what is getting people excited about his campaign. His money is not coming from lobbies, pacs, unions, etc. it is coming from individual donations of voters. The same with the campaign work. It's being done by individual folks in small towns and big cities as well. |
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17 Jul 03 - 11:29 PM (#985666) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Janie I like Dean also, but like Kendall, I have my doubts that he could beat Bush in the general election. The key to whether Bush is ousted, I believe, is going to be how divisive and/or rancorous the Democratic primary campaign turns out to be. If the Dem's can manage to have a fairly civilized primary, I think the country will go for whoever ends up being the Democratic candidate. If the Democrats start throwing much mud at each other during the primary campaign, they will discredit themselves sufficiently to cost the Party the election. (So play nice boys, ya hear?) Janie |
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18 Jul 03 - 07:53 AM (#985832) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Hrothgar All this is very impressive - but what's a blog? |
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18 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM (#985913) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,Alice w/out cookie A blog is short for web log. It's like our Mudcat forum here. If you go to the www.blogforamerica.com page, you will see paragraphs that are like our thread titles and the small word "comment" under each paragraph. Click on "comments" and if the thread is still open for comments, you type in your message, just like we type in messages to threads. The Mudcat could be called a blog. Regarding electability, Dean is much farther ahead than dark horses Carter and Clinton when they were at this point of the campaign. I think he is much more electable as a trustworthy and inspiring candidate than either Carter or Clinton. Carter was intelligent but boring - Dean is intelligent and energizing. Clinton was appealing but smarmy with scandal, Dean is appealing and of high moral character. Alice |
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18 Jul 03 - 11:06 AM (#985970) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: McGrath of Harlow But I gather he's a bit short, and they have to have him stand on a little stool at public metings. For some strange reason voters appear to prefer tall blokes. The only way the short ones get tonpower generally seems to be via the military commander route, like Napoleon. |
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18 Jul 03 - 01:53 PM (#986067) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth Whether or not Dean has a chance of beating Bush depends on people like us--you, me, and Fred down the street. Do we just watch passively and kibitz, or do we dig in and go to work? It's up to us, folks! The alternative is another four years of Bush!! Don Firth |
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18 Jul 03 - 03:21 PM (#986124) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice McGrath, he may be comparatively short in stature, but Dean stands tall with moral backbone. Bush is the reverse. (And, in my opinion, Clinton is the reverse, too.) Got Backbone? alice |
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18 Jul 03 - 03:28 PM (#986127) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Governor Dean's remarks at a press conference this morning in Des Moines, Iowa. MP3 Real Audio clip. |
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18 Jul 03 - 03:32 PM (#986131) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice The audio clip link is about 16 questions (remember the 16 "little words" comment?) to Bush. Only two are on the audio clip - the rest you can read at the Dean blog. The 16th question is: "16) Mr. President, we need to know why you incorrectly claimed this very week that the war began because Iraq would not admit UN inspectors, when in fact Iraq had admitted the inspectors and you opposed extending their work. (Washington Post, Priest, Dana and Dana Milbank, 7/15/2003)" |
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18 Jul 03 - 06:59 PM (#986286) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Zogby International, a leading scientific polling firm, has just released a poll of US likely voters on Bush's performance rating: zogby.com His negative rating reached 46%, just under his pre-9/11 unfavorable of 49%: More Voters (47%) Say It's Time for Someone New Than Say He Deserves Re-election. |
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19 Jul 03 - 07:23 PM (#986753) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice These sites will show you what a broad range of support Dean is getting. Republicans for Dean CLICK Independents for Dean CLICK |
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19 Jul 03 - 07:31 PM (#986761) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: McGrath of Harlow I'm all for short candidates, Alice. Most politicians need cutting down to size. But there seems a tendency for voters to go for height in most countries. Maybe the Americans will grow up enough to throw that one away - and if they look at what voting that way has got them in the past, they might do it. (After all, Franklin Roosevelt couldn't stand tall, because he couldn't stand, and you've yet to match him in political stature.) |
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25 Jul 03 - 09:59 PM (#990862) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice In spite of the slanted polls and misinformation that the American press is putting out about Dean, his support is continuing to mushroom from the grassroots. Cheney is doing a luncheon on Monday with some fat cat contributors that will raise $250,000. Dean's campaign started a challenge to raise at least $250,000 from the thousands of donors who are giving small amounts. The progress can be seen at the baseball bat chart on deanforamerica.com. |
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25 Jul 03 - 10:11 PM (#990866) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: CarolC I think if Dean gets elected, he'll take us to war with Iran (although I think he might not call it a war), unless Bush does it before he leaves office. |
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26 Jul 03 - 08:17 PM (#991255) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert Well, I reckon I can't just let a thread die out with such a suspicion. I disagree, CarolC. I think Dean would think dipolnacy first, bombs second, as opposed to the current "resident" and his *wild west foriegn policy* of *shoot first and don't bother to ask no questions, just shoot, shoot, shoot...*. I'm real concerned about you, CarolC, but a lot more concerned for our country, which has sqandered an excellent opportunity to stand up and carry the Earth forward with its reactionary and arrogant foriegn policy. If you are truely thinking of voting *for* Bush, then all I can say is, "You've been around conservatives too much and need to get yer compass recalibrated". This ain't the real you! Bobert |
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26 Jul 03 - 10:33 PM (#991286) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice CarolC, that is so far from Dean's position, I wonder how you got that impression of him. This is where Howard Dean stands on the foreign policy issue: quote "Securing America at Home and Abroad The United States has a special role to play in world affairs as an historic inspiration to those around the world seeking democracy, freedom, and opportunity. Our own fight for independence, democracy and basic human rights has allowed us to act as a moral force in world affairs and a guiding light for other nations. In the last century, our strength as a nation was measured more by the extent to which others emulated and respected us abroad than by the extent to which they feared and loathed us. Under George W. Bush, this nation has lost its way. Not only are we less secure at home and abroad, we have squandered our role as the inspiration and guiding light for other peoples. I seek to restore America's rightful place in the world and its moral leadership in world affairs. We remain the sole superpower in the world – as Madeleine Albright once put it, the "indispensable power" for addressing so many of the challenges around the world. But we cannot lead the world by force, and we cannot go it alone. We must lead toward clearly articulated and shared goals and with the cooperation and respect of friends and allies. I seek to restore the best traditions of American leadership. Leadership in which our power is multiplied by the appeal of democratic ideals and by the knowledge that our country is a force for law around the world not a law unto itself. I will not divide the world into us versus them. Rather, I will rally the world around fundamental principles of decency, responsibility, freedom, and mutual respect. Our foreign and military policy must be about the notion of America leading the world not America against the world. I opposed President Bush's war in Iraq from the beginning. While Saddam Hussein's regime was clearly evil and needed to be disarmed, it did not present an immediate threat to U.S. security that would justify going to war, particularly going to war alone. From the beginning, I felt that winning the war would not be the hard part – winning the peace would be. This administration failed to plan for the postwar period as it did for the battle, and today we are paying the price. My opposition to the war, however, is part of a comprehensive view of America's role in the world that I presented to the Council on Foreign Relations on June 25th (click here for full text). In that speech, I laid out four goals for American leadership in the world: First, defeat the threat posed by terrorists, tyrants, and technologies of mass destruction. Second, strengthen our alliances and ensure Russia and China are fully integrated into a stable international order. Third, enlarge the circle of beneficiaries of the growing world economy. And fourth, ensure that life on our fragile planet is sustainable. Fifty-five years ago, President Harry Truman delivered what was known as the Four Point speech. In it, he challenged Democrats and Republicans alike to come together to build strong and effective international organizations; to support arrangements that would spur global economic recovery; to join with free people everywhere in the defense of human liberty; and to draw upon the genius of our people to help societies who needed help in the battle against hunger and illness, ignorance and despair. Harry Truman believed that a world in which even the poorest and most desperate had grounds for hope would be a world in which our own children could grow up in security and peace not because evil would then be absent from the globe, but because the forces of right would be united and strong. Harry Truman had faith as I have faith, and as I believe the American people have faith, that if we are wise enough and determined enough in our opposition to hate and our promotion of tolerance; in our opposition to aggression and our fidelity to law; we will have allies not only among governments but among people everywhere. Such an alliance can never be beaten. And the creation of such an alliance will be my goal if I am entrusted with the presidency of the United States. Because, this is what will keep America strong. This is what reflects the best in the American people. And this is the core of the national security message that I will be carrying to all of America throughout this campaign that I am committed to working constructively with friends and allies around the globe to help people in every corner of every continent to live in freedom, prosperity and peace. " Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. |
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27 Jul 03 - 10:48 AM (#991437) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice For those who are not aware of the US campaign contribution laws, an individual can give up to $2,000 to a candidate's campaign. Bush/Cheney fundraisers are getting the max 2,000 from exclusive luncheons, etc. The challenge of Dean this weekend to Cheney's Monday luncheon is to have many voters donate small amounts and equal Cheney's $250,000. Since Friday night, 3,591 people have donate to Dean in this challenge to Cheney. Their average donation has been about $54. That means there is still future donations that can come from the people donating to Dean, up to the 2,000 limit. So far they have raised $195,764.20 online since Friday, with more donations coming in not online. Small donors is the way Dean's campaign has been funded. The Democratic party money machine that relies on its own fat cat sources is kind of in shock at the grassroots power that Dean has inspired in giving the money power back to the people, instead of having it controlled by the political party. Dean raised over 7 Million in the second quarter of this year, from donations averaging under $100. Those donors not only can continue to give up to the 2,000 limit, but they also each have a vote in the election. This is a history making campaign, folks. alice |
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27 Jul 03 - 11:36 AM (#991456) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice From a Dean flyer on the subject of patriotism: "If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington "The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." James Madison "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." Susan B. Anthony "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." "Those who give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin "War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies instead of indemnifying losses." Thomas Jefferson "I am deeply concerned by Bush administration policies that threaten our basic civil liberties and the freedoms that we as Americans have fought so hard to protect throughout our history." Howard Dean on "homeland security", April 2003 http://dean2004.bmgbiz.net/patriotflyer.pdf Alice |
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27 Jul 03 - 07:33 PM (#991636) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: DougR Alice, I wish you all the best with your quest. I would love to see Dean get the Democratic nomination. Perhaps Bobert could organize a similar campaign to name Nader the candidate for the Green Party too. That would be great also, I think. I don't know if any of you saw Dean when he made his appearance on "Meet the Press" a few Sundays ago, but I thought Tim Russert hung him out to dry. Just my opinion of course. DougR |
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27 Jul 03 - 08:46 PM (#991677) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert Dougie: First of all, I've missed my ol' pal and it's good to see you in good form... With that said, guess who declared Dean to have lost the Dean/Bush/Big Media ambush on "Meet the Press"? Big Media, that's who! Why? Because they are scared of him. Why? Read the words of Dean above in Alice's post and it is very clear that Dean has a very different vision of America that your pro-media consolidation guy, Resident Bust, 'er Bush. Sorry, Freudian slip.... And yeah, Dougie, lots of Greens will be working next year to get Bush out, while doing a much better job of vote brokering to get the necessary 5% to get in the '08 debates. They way your guy is propping his feet up on his desk with that little smirk thinking that '04 is in the bag reminds me of someone.... Like daddy! The recent tax cuts to the rich sealed his fate. He's no very much vulnerable because: 1. Giving money to folks who all rady have so much that they can't spend it won't stimulate the economy any more than a blood transfussion to a dead man will bring him back to life. 2. The American people, according to today's Washington Post, think that the tax cut was wrong and that there are way too many loopholes for corporations and the rich. Looks like '04 could be a ve5ry good year for class warfare. and... 3. History tends to repeat itself and daddy was a one termer... Bobert |
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28 Jul 03 - 12:39 AM (#991763) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice The Dean supporters met the Cheney fundraising amount today and went beyond it, with 4,629 voters giving small donations. The total as of 11pm Sunday is $250,733.20. It is Dean's message and the awareness that individuals can come together and raise as much money as the elite fundraisers of Bush/Cheney that inspires the Dean supporters. They are beginning to see that they do have more power when they come together behind a leader that inspires them to take back the power (away from the deep pocket control). Reverse psychology of saying Dean is the one Repubs want - it is not going to work. GOP are secretly scared as heck that Dean will get the nomination. They are continuing the fundraiser on the Dean site into Monday to see how much more they can go above Cheney's luncheon. |
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28 Jul 03 - 10:44 AM (#991970) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice In June, I started investigating what Dean had on his campaign web site, and I took notice that he asked each group of local people who were meeting to support him to find needs in their community for which they could volunteer. I thought, "Wow this guy doesn't want people to just give money and put up signs, he wants them to actively do something good for their home town". Some of the projects that those Dean supporters have done, for example, are cleaning up a creek in Ithaca, NY, and refurbishing a Senior Center in Nasua, NH. Dean is the kind of leader who is inspiring people to come together in a positive way, and take action on their own to do something constructive. He is NOT saying, I'll fix your problems, he is saying, YOU can do something constructive to help yourself and others. If you want to find or create a local project in your area, you can go to this link and type in your zip code: action.deanforamerica.com/meet/">http://action.deanforamerica.com/meet/ To find the people who are meeting in your local area, go to dean2004.meetup.com and type in your zip code. |
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28 Jul 03 - 08:10 PM (#992325) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: DougR Bobert, this is Alice's thread and I'm not going to engage in a debate about whether or not Dean would be a good president. Let's keep the spirit of the thread what she intended ...a rally for support of Dean for the Democratic nomination. Okey dokey? DougR |
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28 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM (#992330) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert Yo Doug: I'm with ya' on this one, except I'm pickin' up a little sarcasim on yer part. Heck, if you thought that Dean could beat yer guy, you wouldn't be so cooperative. Face it, the Repubs have let it be known that they would love to have the Dems run Dean. They think Dean is vulnerable because he opposed the pre-emptive attack on a poorly armed country. Well, fine. Deep down inside, they are saying that to scare Dems away from Dean, becuase in their heart of hearts, they know that Dean is the only one out there that can put yer man out to pasture, where he belongs.... The other Dems will just fight each other trying to look more Repub than the others.... I will tell you this, Doug, that we Greens will do what we need to do to get yer guy out.... and you can take that to the bank. Bobert |
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29 Jul 03 - 12:54 AM (#992436) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Well, the Dean supporters did it. They were aiming for $250,000 by midnight tonight... they doubled it, so when the clock struck twelve - total $504,205.38. There were over nine thousand people who donated since Friday. The average donation was about $50. I think that is pretty darn amazing. The DLC (Democratic Leadership Conference), the big money guys of the party are really upset that they may be losing their control to the average American who can donate $50. They're trying to smear Dean with negative labels. You'll see lots of negative spin coming from the DLC gathering that is going on right now, as they are reacting to what is happening across the country and across party lines. It will be interesting to watch. |
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29 Jul 03 - 08:29 PM (#992962) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: DougR Nope,Bobert, no sarcasm intended. DougR |
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29 Jul 03 - 09:05 PM (#992975) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert You a Dean supporter, Dougie? Like have you sent a donation to his campaign? Like do you think he would do a better job running the country than Bush? Like would you vote for him against Bush? Bobert |
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30 Jul 03 - 01:23 AM (#993088) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: LadyJean I picked up some Dean literature this weekend. I am leaving it in local laundromats, buses, and other places where people have a lot of time on their hands. When I'm done stuffing rats (It's a long story.) I'm going to offer my services to the cause. LadyJean is for Dean! DEAN CAN'T WIN THE ELECTION UNLESS YOU VOTE FOR HIM!!!! |
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30 Jul 03 - 01:39 AM (#993095) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: NicoleC I'm not sold on Dean -- his record is FAR more centrist than he's pitching himself as, particularly to groups like MoveOn and other grassroots organizations that will work to get his campaign going, and that pisses me off. If he gets the nomination, he'll suddenly start with the moderate spiel. It's a familiar pattern and one that I am deeply suspicious of, because the folks that work hard on the campaign early on inevitably get shut out by the end. I hope I'm wrong. Which is not to say that I don't support a relatively centrist candidate as the most likely guy or gal to get the job done, and Dean seems to have a strong direction compass without being unable to compromise enough to get the job done. I just don't want to be lied to about it. |
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30 Jul 03 - 10:21 AM (#993353) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Hi, NicoleC, Vermonters will tell you that Dean is a straight talker. He says what he believes and thinks, even though it may not be popular. The manipulation you describe is not his behavior pattern. Interesting that you think he is too moderate. The Democratic Leadership Council is trying to shoot Dean down because they don't think he is enough of a Clinton-clone centrist. They are putting out words like "extreme liberal" in the press. ---- Announced today, a new organization in the campaign Environmental Voters For Dean: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:37:23 -0500 From: "Dean for America" To: alice@aliceflynn.com Subject: Thank you for your action on the environment The response I've received from Americans concerned about Bush's anti-environmental initiatives has been extraordinary. There are so many in our country who feel that our natural resources are in danger, but are worried that they lack the power and influence to compete with the lobbyists writing the Bush administration's energy policy. That is why I am proud to announce the launching of a new grassroots organization dedicated to making sure the Bush administration does not do four more years' worth of harm to our natural resources. Environmental Voters for Dean is made up of Americans who believe that it is time to take our country and our resources out of the hands of the special interests and give them back to the people. Click here to sign up for Environmental Voters for Dean: http://www.deanforamerica.com/environment CLICK We must undo the damage this president has done to our land, our air, our water and our communities. The power to do so is in your hands, not mine. By working together, we can unseat George W. Bush and take back our country in 2004. Sincerely, Governor Howard Dean, M.D. |
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30 Jul 03 - 10:26 PM (#993890) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peter K (Fionn) Alice, so far you've told us that Dean is "fiscally conservative," "middle of the road" and "not too liberal." Could you not try to paint him just a little bit blander? I'm with NicoleC (again). |
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30 Jul 03 - 10:34 PM (#993896) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Bobert Like compared to the rest of the field, Bush very much included, who else stands out as something different? Hey, believe me, I'm no Democrat, but the fact that Dean had the *courage* to oppose Bush's order for the US military to attack a country with a third rate army, makes him a lot moreattractive than the rest of the field. You gotta start somewhere... Bobert |
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31 Jul 03 - 12:04 AM (#993942) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Ha, ha, Fionn. Thanks for making me smile. Dean is probably getting the "too liberal" label because he opposed the way Bush went in to Iraq, and because while he was governor, Vermont established legal civil unions for gay and lesbian couples. The criticism of Bush's Iraq policy is the big one that irks the Demopublicans. Dean "got the job done" in Vermont, with Republicans opposing him. He created jobs, got health care coverage for those previously uninsured, took the leadership to help family farms and organic farming, revitalizing the centers of rural towns... |
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31 Jul 03 - 12:30 AM (#993953) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: NicoleC I don't think Dean is too moderate -- I favor moderates for high offices. I just don't think he's as liberal as he wants progressives to believe right now. Why progressives? Because they're mostly the only non-career Democrats paying much attention to the primaries this early in the game. |
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31 Jul 03 - 09:55 AM (#994137) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Dean will be giving an environmental address in San Francisco today. Here is a bit of a quote from two articles today regarding the speech: The San Francisco Chronicle previews Howard Dean's major environmental address there today. Jane Kay writes: Howard Dean is calling for an environmental policy that relies more heavily on wind and solar power, cracks down on pollution from older factories and pushes automakers to improve fuel efficiency standards... "Environmental issues are economic issues," he said in the prepared text. "The right-wing radicals want us to believe that we must choose between having a healthy environment or a healthy economy. I believe that a healthy environment will support a healthy economy." Ross Sneyd at the AP also offers a preview: One day after presenting his economic plan in Iowa, the former Vermont governor planned to lay out his 100-year vision for the environment and criticize President Bush's record in a speech Thursday in San Francisco.... In his speech, Dean called for livable communities, something he pushed while Vermont governor. He signed a law that targeted incentives and a variety of grants to developments that were established in the state's downtowns and village centers. "Doing so will help protect our wild and open spaces and will help reduce energy consumption,'' Dean said. |
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31 Jul 03 - 09:58 AM (#994139) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Hi, Nicole, I am interested in knowing what you have heard Dean say that gives you that impression. |
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31 Jul 03 - 10:22 AM (#994165) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice The other Democratic candidates may have only progressives paying attention to the primaries, although since so many want Bush out, I'm not sure if that is true. I think a wide spectrum of people are paying attention, just because of the Bush record as well as the mess of the last election. Dean has a wide spectrum of supporters because of his message, his personal character (courage to speak out against Iraq for example) and his ability to energize people with his ideas and populist appeal. Here are some examples of people paying attention to the Democratic primaries who are not Progressives. There is even a Music for America (Muscicians for Dean) web site. From the Republicans for Dean web site: Weicker Goes for Dean: The Dean Nation blog reports today that former Republican Senator and Independent Governor Lowell Weicker is endorsing Howard Dean. Weicker was a marverick Republican that many moderates looked up to. The fact that he is endorsing Dean as well as former Republican now Independent Sen. Jim Jeffords of Vermont, shows that Bush is losing the moderate vote. But I don't think I needed either Weicker or Jeffords to tell me that. In the past few days, I have been astounded by the response from moderate Republicans who, like myself, no longer thinks Bush represents the values of the Party of Lincoln. We are a "sleeping elephant" that is starting to awake. We need to find ways to organize and get other disenchanted Republicans on board to take back our country and stand up for America. From the Independents for Dean web site: Over on Third Party Watchblog, David Remer has a thoughtful article on what will be required to really get campaign finance reform (or stop political bribery, or stop the evolution of America from democracy to "corporacracy"). Follow the link for the full article. Click "Continue Reading" below for a short excerpt. Most of us probably realize that another means of attack is re-inventing the grassroots campaign, raising money in small amounts from a very large number of regular Americans who want to take their country back. Who can do that? Seems to me that getting behind someone like Dean, who can do that, would be much more effective than supporting a third party, as Remer suggests at the end of his article. On the web site Geeks For Dean: from AP, via yahoo 07.28.03 Many members of the Democratic Leadership Council are convinced that Dean's opposition to the war in Iraq makes him too liberal for middle America, and they worry that if he wins the nomination it could undo years of work to persuade the country that the Democratic Party isn't controlled by its left wing. let me just rephrase that for you so it's a bit more accurate: Many members of the Democratic Losership Council are convinced that Dean's willingness to say what he thinks makes him too pro-active for the lazy politicians, and they worry that if he wins the nomination it could undo years of work to persuade the country that the Democratic Party should never be expected to actually do anything at all. hrmph. really. ------------------ These are the web sites that people around the country have set up ON THEIR OWN, not as part of the official campaign, to support Dean. There are more than just Progressives involved in this activity to get Dean elected. I set up the Montana For Dean site. I, like many others, spent my own time and money to take the initiative. This enthusiasm is repeated in every state of the country. There are well over 300 Yahoo discussion groups of people supporting Dean, many of them, like ours in Montana, are for organizing those of us who meet once a month and plan ON OUR OWN to do community events. UNOFFICIAL Sites for Dean Regional Sites: Alaska for Dean Montgomery for Dean Arizona for Dean Arizona for Dean Blog Arkansas for Dean Brooklyn for Dean California for Dean So. California for Dean Bay Area for Dean Beach Cities for Dean Chabot College for Dean CSU Long Beach for Dean East Bay for Dean Inland Empire for Dean Los Angeles for Dean North Bay for Dean NE Los Angeles for Dean Marin County for Dean Orange County for Dean Sacramento for Dean San Bernardino for Dean San Diego for Dean San Francisco for Dean SF for Dean Santa Cruz for Dean UC Berkeley for Dean UCLA Bruins for Dean UC Santa Barbara for Dean Valley for Dean Ventura County for Dean Colorado for Dean Aims College for Dean Connecticut for Dean Connecticut forDean.org Fairfield for Dean New Haven for Dean Florida for Dean Florida for Dean 2 Broward County for Dean Jacksonville for Dean Miami for Dean Sarasota for Dean Seminole County for Dean Tampa for Dean Georgia for Dean Hawaii for Dean Illinois for Dean Chicago forDean.org Indiana for Dean Iowa for Dean Drake Bulldogs for Dean Kentucky for Dean Kentucky for Dean 2 Lexington for Dean Maine for Dean Maryland for Dean Baltimore for Dean Prince George's County for Dean Massachusetts for Dean Western Mass. for Dean Berkshires for Dean Michigan for Dean Minnesota for Dean UMN for Dean Missouri for Dean St. Louis University for Dean Montana for Dean Montanans for Dean UNN for Dean Nevada for Dean No. Nevada for Dean New Hampshire for Dean New Jersey for Dean New Mexico for Dean New York for Dean Albany for Dean Central NY for Dean Cornell University for Dean Long Island for Dean New York City for Dean North Carolina for Dean UNC Chapel Hill for Dean Ohio for Dean Oregon for Dean Central Oregon for Dean Lewis & Clark for Dean Pennsylvania for Dean Bucks County for Dean Lehigh Valley for Dean Centre County for Dean Philadelphia for Dean Rhode Island for Dean South Carolina for Dean South Dakota for Dean Tennessee for Dean Tennessee for Dean 2 East TN for Dean Knoxville for Dean Tri-Cities for Dean Texas for Dean Texas forDean.org San Antonio for Dean Sudeep forDean.org West Texas for Dean Utah for Dean Rutland County for Dean Virginia for Dean Washington for Dean Kitsap County for Dean Pierce County for Dean Seattle for Dean Vancouver for Dean DC for Dean Wisconsin for Dean Madison for Dean Wyoming for Dean Grassroots Dean Graphics Dean Defense Forces Dean Media Team DeanTalk Forums Independents for Dean People-Powered Graphics Republicans for Dean Rick Klau Blog Links: Ack Ack Ack Eric Alterman Alternet Angry SAM Annatopia ArchPundit Articulate Babble Atrios' Eschaton Backup Brain Matt Bailey Bay Area Man for Dean Berkeley Progressive Best of the Blogs Bradley's Almanac Jim Brayton CalPundit Carl with a K Conclusive Evidence Counterspin Central Daily Kos Deaniacs Blog DemoLiberal Blog-O-Rama Betsy Devine Easter Lemming EP Rants Esoterically.net Brian Flemming The Hamster Hey Joe Intern for Dean John P. Hoke InstaPundit Interesting Times Jimlog 2.0 Rick Klau Lean Left The Left Coaster Left Leaner Lawrence Lessig Liberal Oasis Loco Parentis Mediaburn Medley Meta Filter This Modern World MyDD Noho-missives Not Geniuses Orcinus Opinions of Ed Points West Political Parrhesia Political Punk Political State Report Political Wire Politics in the Zeros Rapid Dissent On Lisa Rein's Radar Raise Your Hands The Rittenhouse Review Seeing the Forest Skippy the Bush Kangaroo TalkLeft Talking Points Memo Unmedia Untelevised Value Judgment The Vicini Network Oliver Willis Matthew Yglesias Unofficial Dean Sites: Action a Day Americans for Dean Clean for Dean Dean 2004 Blog Dean 2004 Portal Dean Archive Dean Defense Forces Dean for Deaf America Dean Independents Dean Netroots DeanPix DeanTalk Forums Dean Volunteers Dean Watch Dean Web Portal Deaniacs Dean's the Real Deal Dr. Dean the Fighting Machine Gays for Dean Geeks for Dean Grassroots for Dean Grassroots Graphics Hack 4 Dean Howard Dean Goes to Washington Netroots Howard Dean Med Students for Dean Music For America One Father For Dean Out for Dean People-Powered Graphics Progressive Christians for Dean Quotes about Dean Republicans for Dean Rock for Dean Students for Dean Tabling for Dean Translate for Dean Two Uncles for Dean Unemployed for Dean(org) Unemployed for Dean(com) Volunteers for Dean Vote Dean We Want Dean Women for Dean |
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31 Jul 03 - 10:25 AM (#994167) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Clorrecting my comment on Music For America. It is a Democratic PAC, not just a group specifically for Dean. http://www.musicforamerica.com/ |
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31 Jul 03 - 10:26 AM (#994170) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Correcting (not clorrecting... sheesh). Typing too fast.. I'm on my way out of town to Spokane for the weekend. I should have checked to see if there are any Mudcatters in Spokane! Leaving in a couple of hours. alice |
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31 Jul 03 - 10:59 PM (#994731) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: NicoleC To respond to your question, Alice, you might ask Dean himself. In the May issue of the Progressive, he said he considered himself a moderate. "But while Wellstone spent his life fighting his party's creeping centrism, Dean only recently took up his position as a left fielder. He considers himself a moderate, and he has often crossed swords with Vermont progressives--including a challenger from the state's Progressive Party who won 10 percent of the vote in the last gubernatorial election. "It's a pathetic thing that I'm the most progressive candidate" among those considered to have a serious shot at the nomination, Dean says. Progressives in Vermont don't disagree. "Few people would have accused him of being a progressive governor in Vermont," says Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Interest Research Group (one of the network of consumer and environmental advocacy groups founded by Ralph Nader). "It was not by accident that a strong progressive party was formed while he was governor here as an alternative to some of the positions he was taking." July 9, 2003, he told Roger Simon in an interview, "We need to move this country back to the center... We're not talking about the left; we're talking about the center." In Vermont, his rhetoric on supporting small farms is at odds with his record of supporting policies that favor factory farming. On almost every issue, including gun control, he takes a strong state's rights position. (The NRA has been a strong Dean supporter and gives him an "A" rating.) He supported using Yucca Mounting as a nuclear waste dump. He is extremely (rabidly) fiscally conservative. He's against medicinal marijuana. He's not against mandatory school prayer -- as long as there isn't a federal law requiring it. Conservation lands in Vermont are open to hunters, and he supported IBM's corporate desires to build a road despite a critical environmental impact report. Dean describes himself "to the right of Bush" on issues of budget and homeland security. As governor of Vermont, he supported concealed weapons, and at the time told everyone he was legalizing gay civil unions because the Vermont Supreme Court forced him to do it. He supports the death penalty. He doesn't completely support the Kyoto Treaty. I'm not saying I disagree with all these things. Dean strikes me as the Democrat version of McCain who doesn't toe the line either way. That in itself would be a plus for me, but this sudden "born again liberalism" is a bit nauseating given his record. To be fair, a lot of it is coming from his supporters, not the official campaign. If you are looking for a die-hard leftie to vote for, Dean is probably not your man. All of which makes the DLC's attempts to portray Dean as a raging liberal and forward Lieberman as a "moderate" all the more ironic. The fact that he's driving about Iowa in a Ford E-350 doesn't say much about his environmental credentials, either. |
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02 Aug 03 - 01:55 PM (#995609) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,Alice at a library in Spokane Well, to be electable as president and get Bush out, one cannot be a die-hard lefty candidate. Leaving gun control up to the states, I believe, is a wise decision. Each local community has different needs when it comes to crime and guns. Dean has said a state like Vermont (as in my state, Montana, as well) are very different than localities like Chicago, LA, Miami, and NYC. I agree with him that gun policy needs to be designed to fit the needs of each state. It really isn't Dean, at all, who is saying that Dean is a far left liberal - it is the DLC and other Dem candidates, as well as the Republicans, who have labeled him lefty liberal. So, he isn't putting out a "born again" at all... it is media from other sources that have come up with that label. I like the fact that he is more fiscally conservative than Bush. Reagan and Bush both used the destructive concept of 'trickle down', which is not a fiscally conservative idea. It is a borrow and spend and give away idea. One can be socially progressive and fiscally conservative at the same time. I have read and heard Dean's statments on medicinal marijuana. He has not said he is against it. What he did say is that he wants it to be studied by the FDA and the scientific evidence of its efficacy established for its use. Thanks for responding, Nicole. I like being able to read your point of view. Alice |
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02 Aug 03 - 07:09 PM (#995692) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peter K (Fionn) You've lost me now Alice. Rather than qualify to the nth degree the precise extent of his fiscal conservatism, could you say what his policy is? I've tried looking through that weblog, but like you say, he manages to avoid taking a position on just about everything. anything. Is that what it takes to get elected? And why you're so spooned on him? |
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02 Aug 03 - 09:40 PM (#995728) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: NicoleC Dean is the only candidate that has successfully killed legislation (H645) in Vermont that would have protercted patients with cancer, AIDS and MS from arrest and imprisonment who use marijuana on a doctor's recommendation. Now he claims it only would take 60 days to get FDA approval for medicinal marijuana -- which is hogwash, as any pharmeceutical company will tell you. Of course, no drug company will sponsor it for FDA approval, because they can't patent it. Ergo, no FDA approval. So what DOES Dean think? And how much is he whitewashing the issue now when 80% of Americans support its use in terminally ill patients? Or as Dean says, he's "clarifying" his position, which looks like "clarifying" himself into a position that will offend as few people as possible. On another note, while Dean was lobbying for ordinary Americans to match the contributions to Cheney's big fundraiser dinner, on Thursday he had his own $2000 per plate dinner fundraiser in SF for "ordinary" Americans. The more I read about Dean, the more he looks like just another politician. Better that Bush? Probably. But hardly the straight-shooter he claims to be (don't all politicians say that?) Then again, I don't have to worry about which Dem to vote for in the primary, since none of them will be appearing on my ballot. :) |
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04 Aug 03 - 11:53 PM (#996847) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice From tonight's CNN Larry King live and Dean's response to the marijuana question: KING: Santa Cruz, California, hello. CALLER: Hi Governor Dean. My question to you is, given your medical background and your view on states rights, in your opinion, what should the federal government do about medical marijuana? DEAN: I don't think they should throw people in jail in California, but I think do think -- here's what I think. I think the process by which medical marijuana is being legalized is the wrong process. I don't like it when politicians interfere in medicine. It's why I am very pro-choice. Because I don't think that is the government's business. So what I will do as president is, I will require the FDA within first 12 months to evaluate marijuana and see if it is, in fact, a decent medicine or not. If it is, for what purposes -- for certain purposes, and I suspect it will be for cancer patients and HIV/AIDS patients. And it should be allowed for that. But I suspect it will not be allowed for things like glaucoma. But we have to do the FDA studies. I think marijuana should be treated like every other drug in the process and there shouldn't be a special process which is based on politics to legalize it. |
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05 Aug 03 - 12:10 AM (#996857) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Fionn, here is the statement on economic policy: Governor Howard Dean, MD RESTORING FISCAL SANITY Long-term vision – As Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean based his budget policy on the sound principles of keeping spending growth in check, avoiding long-term structural fiscal drags, relying on conservative revenue forecasts and paying down the state debt. From shortfalls to surpluses – Dean inherited a $70 million deficit – 11% of the budget. By 2001 Vermont enjoyed a $10 million surplus. So when other states fell deeply into debt in recent years, Vermont (the only state not required to balance its budget) remained in strong fiscal health. Paying down the debt – Dean paid down Vermont's debt by 29% in 5 years. As a result, VT's bond rating rose from the lowest in New England to the highest. Resisting the sirens' call – Vermont economic expert Jeff Carr notes that Dean "resisted the sirens' call of fiscal irresponsibility." Vermont's Republican Governor Jim Douglas said of Dean, "He's been a good partner fiscally." LOWERING TAXES RESPONSIBLY Taming the marginal rate – When Howard Dean took office, Vermont had the nation's highest marginal tax rates. During his tenure, Dean cut income taxes twice, bringing the top marginal rate down from 13.5% to 9.5% Cutting taxes fairly – Dean made sure that all Vermonters, not just upper-bracket earners, enjoyed tax cuts. He also eliminated the highly regressive sales tax on clothing and shoes and removed thousands of low income Vermonters from the income tax rolls entirely. While many states have a regressive state tax structures, Vermont has one of the most progressive state tax systems in the nation. Cutting taxes responsibly – Howard Dean believes in long-term fiscal prudence. That's why when President Bush passed his huge tax cut for the wealthy, Dean decoupled Vermont's income tax rates from the federal rates – ensuring that Vermont would not be dragged into deficit by Bush's short-sighted fiscal policy CREATING JOBS Putting Vermonters back to work – When Howard Dean became Governor, Vermont's unemployment rate was 6.9%, slightly higher than the national average. By the time Dean left office, Vermont's unemployment rate was 3.7%, far below the national rate of 6.0%. Creating jobs – Under Dean's tenure, Vermont added an astounding 56,000 new jobs, a 20% increase in the workforce. Better wages – Governor Dean worked to create higher paying jobs. In 2001 the average income in Vermont grew 8th fastest in the country. High tech jobs – Dean understands that technology will help drive the 21st century economy. That's why he focused on bringing high tech jobs to Vermont. The state now ranks 5th in high tech jobs per capita, with 3500 such jobs created between 1993 and 2000 alone. A RECORD OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT Attracting business to Vermont – Howard Dean implemented, as he put it, "the most advanced package of economic development incentives in the country." The package was designed to bring 8,500 jobs and $1.5 billion in economic activity to Vermont by 2004. 80 businesses and 12 municipalities have taken advantage of the package so far, helping to expanded business in Vermont. Revitalizing downtowns –Dean developed incentives to bring businesses back to Vermont's downtowns, creating jobs and activity in Vermont's cities and towns and controlling sprawl in Vermont's suburbs and wilderness. Renewing manufacturing – New England manufacturing was hit hard by the 1991 recession. Under Dean, Vermont established policies encouraging Vermont manufacturers to invest in new capital in Vermont. The results: hundreds of new quality manufacturing jobs. Northeastern Dairy Compact - Governor Dean was the driving force behind the Northeastern Dairy Compact (NEDC). He has been called that program's "champion." The Northeastern Dairy Compact brought about $60 million to Vermont farmers and about $180 million to Vermont's agriculture economy overall. (This information was produced by Dean For America.) |
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05 Aug 03 - 06:24 AM (#996958) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: zanderfish3 (inactive) What's a Blog |
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05 Aug 03 - 07:07 AM (#996980) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alba ZF3. I asked myself the same question. Its a personal website that updates frequently...according to Google, being a real newbie to the Tech world (only 8 months on the Comp) I looked it up myself on Google when this thread started. Maybe there are other definitions out there also! JD. NB: Dean is appearing on the Today show this Morning. |
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05 Aug 03 - 11:01 AM (#997117) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,Alice without cookie Blog = Web log It can be a personal journal of one person's writing or a public one (like Dean's) with many people writing in the log. It looks very much like Mudcat, with a place to type in your name and then a box to type in your comments. |
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05 Aug 03 - 02:32 PM (#997300) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: zanderfish3 (inactive) What is a Blog? is it another word for biog |
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05 Aug 03 - 08:15 PM (#997528) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice zanderfish, the answer to your question is in my message. A blog is short for web log. It is a journal on the web (internet); a log of written entries made by one person or many people. It can be personal, or it can be open to the public the way Mudcat is. Some would call the Mudcat a blog. |
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06 Aug 03 - 02:56 PM (#998066) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: zanderfish3 (inactive) muchas grassyarse Alice |
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07 Aug 03 - 12:25 PM (#998382) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: John MacKenzie I don't know too much about US politics, and wouldn't want to intrude on private grief as far as having G Shrub as president is concerned. However somebody suggested Howard dean adopt Clinton as running mate, for what it's worth from this side of the pond, I don't even think he should even be seen talking to Clinton. The impression I get from here is that Clinton has done for the Democrats, what Maggie Thatcher did for the Conservative party this side of the pond. Shafted it! Giok |
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08 Aug 03 - 10:27 PM (#999248) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice The August Dean meetup, the first Wednesday of the month, was this week. There were two of us returning from the last meetup; the rest of the folks were all newcomers. It was interesting once again to hear the personal reasons why people were there. One person voiced how angry he still feels that the Democrats rolled over without a whimper when the Florida vote recount was not completed. In attendance was the local Democratic Party head, there to see what was happening with the Dean supporters. We wrote letters to New Hampshire voters (for the upcoming caucus) and discussed how we can motivate young folks who will be 18 a the time of the 2004 election to register and vote. It really is amazing to see strangers coming together to take charge of the political process. The number of people signing up at Meetup.com to meet once a month to support Dean has passed 80,000. |
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10 Aug 03 - 01:09 PM (#999734) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice When I was at the Irish Festival in Butte yesterday, one of the other performers came up to me and said, "I like your Dean button." I had a Howard Dean button pinned to my cap visor. The performer was from Portland, OR. In our discussion, he said he had donated to a campaign for the first time because of Dean. The last meeting we had here in town brought home to me again how private citizens in large numbers are being inspired by Dean to get involved in the presidential campaign. Here is a news article from today on the same subject: -- Dan Gillmor at the San Jose Mercury News posts his column today on his visit to Dean HQ, and examines how the net is helping to restore the American community: The profound insight in the campaign's Net-working -- which raises huge risks along with opportunities -- is in trusting people out at the edge to become the campaign, too. The campaign tries to give them some additional online tools, but the people out at the edges are not under anyone's orders but their own. "What's going on in Austin?'' Trippi asks rhetorically. ``We don't have a clue. We're just assisting....' "To enable and promote commitment, you have to start with trust,'' [volunteer Ka-Ping Yee] says. "And trust is tremendously enhanced by the power of human contact.'' In the end, that notion is at the core of Dean's rise to prominence. His campaign has used the tools of communications and collaboration to assist more human contact, bringing together people who have a cause and want to take it to others. Will Dean take this all the way to the White House? Who knows, but maybe this kind of conversation can spread into the governing part of the process, not just the electioneering. At the very least, the Dean effort has brought back into the process some people who'd given up, and these tools will inevitably find their way into other campaigns and causes. "If we win,'' says Trippi, "we'll have done something for democracy.'' Win or lose, they've done a lot already. |
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11 Aug 03 - 10:40 AM (#1000235) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peg Giok; why do you think Clinton shafted the Democractic party? And I think it is rather inappropriate to compare him to Thatcher, since their ideologies and the resulting policy changes from their actions are completely different; she's a lot closer to Reagan than to Clinton. Also she was P.M. a lot longer than Clinton was president. Personal difficulties aside, and I did not agree with every foreign policy decision he made, but other than that I think he did a lot of good, economically and for social programs. The welfare reforms were a mess but the intention was a good one. Maybe Dean should get Hillary as his running mate? |
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11 Aug 03 - 12:59 PM (#1000300) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: John MacKenzie I'm not talking politics, I'm talking personalities, the actions of a man or woman reflect on the party to which they belong. Thus Maggies intransigence, and Bill's "I never inhaled/impaled" tarnished the reputation of their respective parties. Giok |
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14 Aug 03 - 11:33 PM (#1002422) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Here is a bit from a speech given today by Howard Dean, addressing President Bush's decision to cut soldier's pay because Bush has given away so much in tax cuts. quote: "...we are now facing a ludicrous situation in which Vice President Cheney will reap a $116,000 per year tax windfall, and yet our soldiers--on extended deployments and tragically dying every day--are facing pay cuts of $225 a month...." Full text of speech here: Soldier Pay Cuts, Dean Condemns Bush Administration You tell 'em, Howard. - alice |
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15 Aug 03 - 07:28 AM (#1002598) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peter K (Fionn) Peg: a message from your cyberspace admirer... Giok is speaking for a fairly narrow segment of UK opinion. Clinton in his visits over here - Oxford, Birmingham, Belfast, Labour party conference, etc - has been hugely impressive and made an enormous impact. Any comparison with Thatcher (or Blair who's as bad) is frankly absurd. If Giok went just the few hundred miles to Paris he would find himself in a world where dalliances and indescretions on a scale far eclipsing anything we know about Clinton or - to mention some UK tories - John Major, Tim Yeo and David Mellor, are treated as personal and private matters. The indiscretions of Joe Ashton, erstwhile Labour MP for Bassetlaw, were of a different order, but the puerile UK tabloids are incapable of judgment and merely fuel popular over-reaction with their hysterical, hypocritical rants. |
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22 Aug 03 - 01:36 PM (#1006560) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Well, as I posted in July, Dean's grassroots movement donated small donations to more than match Cheney's fat cat luncheon. Now they are at it again, with a drive to match Bush's Million Dollar dinner in Portland, OR. There were more people outside lined up protesting Bush's policies than there were inside at the dinner. This morning the Dean blog started another baseball bat campaign, a graphic of a bat turning red like a thermometer as donations come in. The average donation has been about $50; they plan to match or exceed Bush's million on Tuesday. They have already reached $144,915.41 with over 2,000 donations in a matter of hours. I also mentioned in a July post in this thread that there were over sixty thousand Americans all over the world meeting the first Wednesday of the month to be active for Dean for president. That number at www.meetup.com is now almost 89,000. People are coming to Dean's campaign in droves because of his message and his character. It is an amazing thing to watch. The Dean blog link has the basball bat million dollar challenge to Bush. The link is in the first message of this thread. Alice |
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22 Aug 03 - 01:44 PM (#1006562) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice As I was writing the last message, the numbers went up. The "bat" challenge to Bush - 3,083 people have contributed $166,431.05 as of 1 pm EDT. |
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22 Aug 03 - 04:23 PM (#1006651) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,CarolC Hey Bobert and Alice. I've been off line for a while and couldn't respond to you way up the list until now. Where I get that impression about Dean is from his own words to the American Israeli Political Action Committee, which I don't have access to at the moment. Basically, he stated that he sides with the hawks in the Israeli government with regard to Iran, rather than with the doves in the Israeli peace bloc. And he practically came right out and said he'd do whatever the government of Israel wanted him to do. That doesn't sound to me like a man who is intent on finding peaceful solutions to things, or like a man who is much of an independent thinker. |
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22 Aug 03 - 05:08 PM (#1006681) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Hi, Carol, here is Dean's statement on the issue of the Middle East from Dean's web site. I'll search for the source you referred to. ===== quote Howard Dean is committed to achieving a negotiated, comprehensive, and just peace between Palestinians and Israelis and remains optimistic about the chances for peace. The greatest asset in that effort is that majorities of both Palestinians and Israelis accept a two-state solution which would guarantee security, sovereignty and dignity. Recent developments in the region have created a new sense of opportunity. Any steps that lead away from violence and toward peace need to be encouraged and assisted. Continuing this progress will require the full engagement of the United States at the highest level. US disengagement from the process during much of the Bush Administration has been unacceptable. No other country but the United States has the credibility necessary to facilitate negotiations and to mediate between the parties. Yet, in the end, only the Palestinians and the Israelis themselves can make and keep the peace and work out the specifics of a lasting agreement. Peace cannot be imposed by outside parties. The basic framework for peace between the Israelis and Palestinians is a two state solution - a Jewish state of Israel living side by side in peace and security with an independent, demilitarized Palestinian state. The best approach to achieving lasting peace is a comprehensive one, providing for fully normalized relations, peace, and security as part of an overall negotiated settlement between Israel and the Arab states. To get there, the Palestinian Authority will have to fight terrorism and violence on a consistent basis to create the conditions necessary for a viable peace process. The Israeli government will have to work to improve the living conditions of the Palestinian people and ultimately will have to remove a number of existing settlements. These issues and others will all be elements of a final agreement negotiated by the parties. Through it all, the United States will maintain its historic special relationship with the state of Israel, providing a guarantee of its long-term defense and security. And the United States will have to take responsibility with its international partners for helping the Palestinians establish a middle-class democratic society in which women fully participate in economic and political decision-making. The international community must support these economic reconstruction efforts which are essential to the long-term success of any agreement between the parties. |
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22 Aug 03 - 05:13 PM (#1006688) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,CarolC Hi Alice. I saw what Dean has on his website. It doesn't entirely square with what he said to AIPAC. The stuff on his website looks like an attempt to straddle a fine line in order to placate people. I think I'll believe what he says to AIPAC before I believe what looks to me like someone talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. |
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22 Aug 03 - 07:26 PM (#1006736) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Hi, Carol, yes AIPAC and the discussion around the Israel/Palestine issue has become quite a hot button and is a topic of heated discussion on the Dean blog. I used a google search of AIPAC and Howard Dean to find some references to the connection, and several blog quotes came up as well as people hashed out their point of view regarding his position. I'm going to read more about it and watch this issue as well. |
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23 Aug 03 - 12:59 AM (#1006834) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST Is this Dean Rusk's son? |
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24 Aug 03 - 02:49 AM (#1007235) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Nerd I think Giok is right that Dean should stay far from Clinton personally, but can cite Clinton's record in areas where he agrees with Clinton, like "I would have a more Clinton-like approach to fair levels of taxation and balanced budgets." Clinton's stigma is not really because of what he did, it is because of the media reaction to it. Many previous American presidents have had extramarital sex in the White House and elsewhere, and the idea that you couldn't be a good president while sleeping around is a fairly new idea. But the media decided at the end of Clinton's term that they had to turn on him in order to ingratiate themselves to the new administration, and you got all kinds of hatchet jobs reported in the press from "he took gifts of furniture and art objects that should have stayed in the White House" to "Clinton's staff removed all the W keys from computers in the White House just spite Bush (whose nickname is W.)" Clinton was essentially chewed up and spit out by the media, and the actual nature of his indiscretions had little to do with it. The result is that a personal connection with Clinton would probably hurt Dean. But most Americans recognize that Clinton was much more successful than Bush in some key areas, and thus a connection on the level of policy in those areas might well help him. Having Clinton speak at campaign events, as long as the speeches are policy-focused, might even work. But having Clinton on the ballot would distract from substance and bring the discourse to a lower level. At this moment, I think Hillary would kill his chances of success too. She needs to build a bigger base of support and more experience in the Senate first. She is otherwise vulnerable on three counts: she failed at health care when Bill was President (for whatever reason, her fault or not), she has very little experience in policymaking, and the right hates her with a rabid, irrational passion. I think Dean's best chance may be the tried and true method: selecting another of the Dem candidates, if they don't kill each other in the primary campaigns. How does Vice President Moseley-Braun sound? |
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24 Aug 03 - 12:30 PM (#1007340) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Over 4,500 people rallied to hear Dean kick off his tour of cities beginning at Falls Church, VA. You can hear a 45 min 7.5M mp3 here; http://images.deanforamerica.com/media/sleepless/030823va.mp3 He flew on to Wisconsin, then fueled up in Boise where Dean supporters met him at the airport - the speaking tour, labeled "Sleepless" while Bush takes a month long vacation, will go on until Tuesday. The speaking stops are: SLEEPLESS SUMMER TOUR August 23-26 Falls Church, VA 4,500! people gathered Milwaukee, WI 800! people gathered New York, NY Seattle, WA Portland, OR Chicago, IL San Antonio, TX Spokane, WA Check the Dean blog for time and location if you are near any of these cities. |
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24 Aug 03 - 02:23 PM (#1007376) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,pdq I know this is a lovefest for Dean supporters, but here is my two cents worth. Most Americans will only vote to replace a president if the new man is clearly better. The 2000 race was between two wannabes. The 2004 race will pit a successful man against a wannabe. Dean's talk is not enough, and his accomplishments are thin. "The right-wing radicals want us to believe that we must choose between having a healthy environment or a healthy economy. I believe that a healthy environment will support a healthy economy." -Howard Dean Please!!!!!!!! There are no people alive who want dirty air, polluted rivers or toxic waste spills. Sounds like name-calling to me. As far as the war with Iraq, Israel is the main beneficiary. The Israeli people know that they are NOT ingaged in parlor games. They can lose, and if they do, they lose everything. It is easy for candidates to second guess our leaders when they have nothing to lose. |
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24 Aug 03 - 04:18 PM (#1007445) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice I would not call W. Bush a successful man. He is still the appointed, not popularly elected, wannabe, IMHO. |
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24 Aug 03 - 05:23 PM (#1007468) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST Oops, Alice. Sorry. I was going to stay out of this thread but the notion that Bush was appointed is pure horse puckey. We don't elect our presidents by "popular" vote, and I'm sure you are well aware of that. DougR |
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24 Aug 03 - 07:36 PM (#1007515) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Yes, I am aware of that, and I still wish the votes in Florida had continued to be counted. Thanks for your polite and sincere input, as always, Doug! a. |
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25 Aug 03 - 09:00 AM (#1007734) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos In Bush's case we elect them by buying Spreme COurt judges. Sorry. A |
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25 Aug 03 - 11:32 AM (#1007796) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Last night I was glued to the blog for America (Dean's blog) while the Governor traveled on stump speeches across the country... there were only a few thousand officially signed up to gather in Portland and Seattle. Proof of how much this campaign is a grassroots movement was the numbers that actually gathered - by police estimates, 12,000 to 15,000 in Seattle. Photos here: www.blogforamerica.com, scroll down page to photo threads, including one that is 360 degrees of the crowd. Word of mouth spread the desire for many thousands to gather and hear Dean speak, a phenomenon that has not happened for any of the other Democratic candidates. The fund raising this weekend to match Bush's million dollars is on track to reach its goal Tuesday. The press who have been dismissing Dean are eating their words. |
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25 Aug 03 - 12:33 PM (#1007834) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Big Mick I haven't read this whole thread, but I pretty well think I know how it goes. Time to chime in on this, given my background. A little setup, though, must come first. For those of us on the progressive side of the equation, there should be only one criterion. That is electability. While I have great respect for diversity of opinion on candidates, this Presidency should convince you of the necessity of defeating dangerous candidates. I believe that at some point, political pragmatism must take precedence over philosophical purity. I am a great case in point. My views of the world would have a Tom Harkin as President in a heartbeat. But what we know of his electibility tells us that it just isn't wise to support him for this endeavor. Nader, while a legitimate candidate, shows us what happens when philosophical considerations take precedence over the pragmatic fact of elecability. I reject those that are angry with him for running (it was his right), as well as those angry at those who voted for him (their arguments for supporting him were sound). But I ask you to look back at that time, and ask yourself if we are better off as a result of it? My answer to that is no. The system is designed to allow these types of campaigns in the primary/party caucus period. Many of those that I have spoken with, that voted for third party folks that are otherwise Democrats, didn't bother to vote in these crucial candidate selection elections. If a candidate cannot carry these elections, it is unlikely that their message will resound with the crucial middle. Like it or not, my friends, it is always a battle for the middle. The party that gets more of these folks leaning right or left, is the party that Now to Governor Dean. I am very interested in this man. He has been unfairly painted by some as too far to the left. The simple fact is that he is a progressive of the first order, who seems capable of drawing the swing voters of both parties. He seems to me to be in the right place on the environment, labor, social infrastructure, business (small to midsize) infrastructure, and Health care. The only question for me remains, is he electable? I have been watching the numbers carefully. As a veteran political campaign director, the rallies and such don't mean a lot. These are, in the main, staged. I want to watch the polling so I can ascertain where the all important middle seems to be coming down. Middle does not equate to middle class, nor is it broken out by ethnicity or income level. It is that great block of average folks that most of you call undecideds or independents. It crosses age, gender, ethnicity, and income levels. These average folks just trying to raise their kids and live their lives are the ones. So far, so good, Governor Dean. If when it shakes out, you are our guy, that will be fine with me. Speak your heart, but think very carefully as you do. You seem to have a plan, and you seem to be enunciating it well. All the best, Mick |
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25 Aug 03 - 02:31 PM (#1007879) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth Dean drew a pretty substantial crowd at Seattle's Westlake Park yesterday (BLICKY1). Undoubtedly his supporters did some "staging," (Standard Operating Procedure in political campaigns, isn't it?) although other than reminding other supporters to be sure to be there, I don't know what "staging" means. That couldn't account for all the people who came, or their enthusiasm. You can't "stage" that many people. And they really resonated with what Dean had to say. And in California, polls show Bustamante (Dem.) well ahead of Arnie (Rep.) (BLICKY2). And someone said that considering his stand on some issues, Arnie is "a Democrat disguised as a Republican." I noted on this morning's news that Bush's approval rating has fallen below 50%. This is not going to be a "cakewalk" for the Republicans any more than the Iraqi war has turned out to be a "cakewalk." If things really get desparate as I'm pretty sure they will, special care should be taken in November 2004 to forestall any Florida-style hanky panky. Don Firth |
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25 Aug 03 - 04:24 PM (#1007924) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Dean's support is a completely different phenomenon than "same old, same old" campaign politics. The support is vastly drawn from people who have never been involved in a campaign before, they are from Republicans to Greens and all in between, and are organizing on their own, bottom up, not top down. The way these people have connected through meetup.com and then spread support to their friends and relatives is COMPLETELY different than the typical staged rally. The other candidates don't get this support because, unlike the other Dem candidates, 1) Dean has a message people are excited to hear 2) Dean has a way of delivering the message that is honest and sincere and that resonates with people 3) Dean has an executive record in Vermont that shows result. Time and again on the Dean blog, I have read people say they had given up hope on the democratic process until they learned more about Dean, and that they are participating for the first time in a campaign. The media is finally waking up to the fact that this is a phenomenon that really is action from the people creating these huge crowds from word of mouth, not from being invited by the campaign. Read Joe Trippi's interview (Dean's campaign manager) regarding how the people led the campaign, instead of the campaign leading the people. http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/001096.html quote from AUGUST 19 interview... We had, for example, an email list of 481 people in Austin and we emailed them and said "We're coming." We get to the event, and there are 3200 people there. The reason there are 3200 people there is that those 481 people went out, downloaded flyers, leafleted the Latino community, leafleted polling places for a city election that was occurring, made phone calls, and did all those kind of things on their own. |
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25 Aug 03 - 07:42 PM (#1008017) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice I can testify that in my town, in July, ten of us came together as strangers because we signed up for the Dean meetup for our location. We looked at each other and said, anyone here from the campaign? Nope. Anyone here get an agenda of what we are supposed to do? Nope. So, we just started talking to each other where we were in the coffee shop, talking about why we had come to the meeting. There were people there who said they just wanted anyone but Bush in the White House, there were people there from Vermont (tourists) who knew Dean well as their governor, there were people who owned small businesses, a doctor, a teacher, a student... many voices each telling a unique story. We didn't have direction from the Dean campaign, we just met because we saw the time and date and place on meetup.com. We didn't have an agenda, but we all agreed that from our many perspectives, Dean WAS the middle, and he was the one we respected. We decided on our own what we could do for Dean in our town. We figured out our own plan to put together an event to hand out flyers. We printed flyers ourselves, we made our own display, we did our own management of outreach. Now that I've been reading the blog for a couple of months, I find that the meetups everywhere are doing just what we did in my town. Strangers came together, without being "handled" by the campaign, except to get some support materials if wanted, and have volunteered to do what they thought needed to be done in their home town. People have made their own Dean tee shirts, just like we have here in Montana, made their own stickers and buttons, and have gone out and done projects that help their community while at the same time informing the public about Dean. Don't believe the Republcans' spin that Dean is unelectable... that is BAIT to try to get Dems to sabotage each other. Dean is the MOST electable of all the candidates. I can't wait for Dean's debate with W Bush. |
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25 Aug 03 - 09:58 PM (#1008091) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Live real Audio stream of Dean in San Antonio, Texas, now... http://www.websoapbox.com/media/deanforpresident.ram |
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25 Aug 03 - 10:44 PM (#1008102) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Next stop for the stump speech - Chicago, then New York City. CSPAN will broadcast the NYC rally live at 10pm ET tomorrow night. If you haven't heard Dean deliver a speech, tune in and be ready to see for yourself what kind of candidate he is. |
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26 Aug 03 - 12:05 AM (#1008131) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: LadyJean On Saturday August 23, at Pittsburgh's Rock Against Racism, I endured Rap Music for Howard Dean's sake. (I have nothing against rap music. I just feel no need to hear it. I have the same feeling about easy listening music, which is harder to avoid.) It was an amazingly positive experience. I have joined the Dean campaign. I am working with libertarians, mainstream Democrats, good ole boys, students, and seniors! It's incredible!!!! We had a lot of positive feedback from everyone but the Greens, and one seriously assinine libertarian. Howard Dean can be elected, IF YOU VOTE FOR HIM!!! Get to a meet up, and see what all the fuss is about. |
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26 Aug 03 - 12:20 AM (#1008136) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice CSPAN broadcast from Bryant Park in NYC, Tuesday, will be approximately 9:30 - 10 pm ET. Like LadyJean said, "See what all the fuss is about". |
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26 Aug 03 - 10:15 AM (#1008338) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peg The medicinal marijuana stance still bugs me. Vermont is one of the only states that had a real chance to push this issue forward to where it logically needs to be: full legal access for patents with doctor's prescriptions and decriminalization (small fines, no jail time) for possession of small amounts for personal use... |
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26 Aug 03 - 01:22 PM (#1008449) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Nerd Peg, Dean's opinion on the marijuana issue is largely colored by his being a doctor. He does not want the medical use of marijuana to become legal without a clear understanding of what it is good for medically. This would not be an issue if marijuana were not pre-politicized; no one would argue that a new drug invented by Merck should become legal without its being well tested first. Since MJ is illegal to begin with in the US (simply to own it or to grow it), testing it is very difficult. I think that to have a politician say, "it should be tested" is a positive step, and for a doctor it's the only right step. One of my family members, who is a doctor and also believes that drugs should be legalized, still does not want marijuana to be used medically (recommended and prescribed by MDs) until the proper tests and regulations are in place; Dean's position on medical marijuana is thus identical to his, and I think many doctors would agree regardless of where they fall on the drug issue more generally. |
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26 Aug 03 - 01:45 PM (#1008465) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth I agree with Nerd on this. But I would consider this a minor matter compared with the many other reasons for a regime change in 2004. To be frank, I would support SpongeBob SquarePants or Howard the Duck if I thought they had a chance of getting the Bush Administration out of there before they can finish turning this country into what they want to turn it into. Of the nine candidates vying for the Democratic nomination, Howard Dean is on my short-list (one of the three best). Even if, in your opinion, he is not "ideal" on every issue (and no candidate ever will in everyone's opinion), it's necessary to keep your eyes on what's really important. Don Firth |
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26 Aug 03 - 02:50 PM (#1008510) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice As noted in the tech thread I started, I'm having trouble accessing news sites and other web pages today, even though I can get to Mudcat. Can someone check the www.blogforamerica.com page and tell me if they are near reaching the One Million Dollar goal? Thanks. Alice |
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26 Aug 03 - 04:23 PM (#1008549) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peg how much more of a "clear understanding" is needed??? It alleviates nausea in patients undergoing chemotherapy, and restores appetite in people with AIDS. It lessens pain and pressure for glaucoma patients. This has all been documented for years now. What's the hesitation about??? It's because pot can't be patented and put millions in the coffers of some pharmaceutical corporation. |
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27 Aug 03 - 03:04 AM (#1008767) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth Peg, important as this matter is (and although I don't have any of these particular medical problems myself, I have a couple of friends who have gone through the rigors of chemotherapy, so I am not unsympathetic to the situation), I think there are more important issues at stake. Such as the collapsing economy, the assault on civil liberties, the likelihood of future pre-emptive wars, a reasonable approach to the threat of terrorism, and the esteem of the rest of the world, to mention a few. Let me ask you this: If you had your choice between Bush and Dean, would you vote for Bush because you disagree with Dean about his stand on the marijuana issue? Don Firth |
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27 Aug 03 - 08:49 AM (#1008878) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos I'd vote for him because I do not wish to see terrorism emanating from the WHite House; reason enough? A |
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27 Aug 03 - 11:18 AM (#1008975) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Update on the challenge to reach the One Million dollar match of small donors against Bush's donors - while Dean was speaking at the last location on his four day tour, Bryant Park in NYC, 17,115 Americans had raised $1,003,620. As of midnight, 17,717 Americans have contributed $1,032,903.94 to the Raise a Million against Bush challenge. The numbers of people signed up at meetup.com to meet on Sept 3 and talk about what they can do for Dean in their community has grown to 92,010. In contrast, Kerry has 9,500. Since June, I have watched the phenomenon of people searching out Dean and his message, clamboring for something they can do to get him elected. My sense then was he is the only one that can beat Bush. I'm convinced of it. Remember that Bush didn't even win the popular vote the first time. If each voter who voted, some reluctantly, for Gore last time, has a candidate they are excited about voting for this time... things will be different for W. The Dean campaign has also brought many new voters out of the woodwork, those who had stopped voting who say they will vote again now, and those who have never registered before. The number of Republicans supporting Dean also tip the scales away from Bush. The huge deficit is a major issue for many conservatives. Check the front page of the New York Times above the fold. It's Dean. Dean is now at 35% in New Hampshire, Kerry at 17%. |
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27 Aug 03 - 12:23 PM (#1009027) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Nerd Peg, Dean has said that he thinks Marijuana will turn out to be a good medicine for Cancer and Aids patients, not so good for glaucoma. I am therefore guessing he has read the studies that have been done on this and has actual medical opinions on the matter. He is not simply mindlessly obstructing the use of MJ for medical reasons. Here once again is his position: I will require the FDA within first 12 months to evaluate marijuana and see if it is, in fact, a decent medicine or not. If it is, for what purposes -- for certain purposes, and I suspect it will be for cancer patients and HIV/AIDS patients. And it should be allowed for that. But I suspect it will not be allowed for things like glaucoma. But we have to do the FDA studies. I think marijuana should be treated like every other drug in the process and there shouldn't be a special process which is based on politics to legalize it. If you're a doctor and you disagree with him, fine. But would you really let that be the issue on which you vote for the U.S. presidency, because under him it might take one year longer to have MJ approved for medical reasons than with another candidate? In any case, Dean's proposition above is the only one that makes any sense. Would you want to set a precedent whereby the president makes executive decisions to suddenly approve medicines WITHOUT the FDA looking at them? Given the size of "Big Pharma" that would REALLY open the floodgates of corruption! |
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27 Aug 03 - 05:35 PM (#1009211) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peg first of all, I have not said I would not vote for him based on this one issue; I am commenting upon it because his rhetoric does not ring true. Secondly, one need not be a doctor to be informed about medicinal marijuana; as a freelance writer who has written about health issues I have done a good deal of research on this. Third, Dean claims he wants to FDA to examine whether, in the passage you quote, "it is a decent drug or not." My point is (here it is again) that the information is already out there, and if this guy is a medical professional he should be able to interpret the data that already exists. That is why I think his stance on this issue needs to be more closely examined because he seems to just flip-flop based on what he thinks people want to hear, and is being noncommital about what he actually believes is the right thing to DO. Given a choice between him and Bush, the choice is obvious. But I will not vote for the lesser of two evils; I will vote for the person I think is best for the job who decides to run, no matter what their chances of winning. |
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27 Aug 03 - 05:44 PM (#1009214) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth It's damned unfortunate, but within recent years sometimes the lesser of two evils is the only choice that is given to us. Don Firth |
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28 Aug 03 - 09:47 AM (#1009566) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Big Mick Precisely, which is why I want to know one thing. Which of the current crop of alternatives can win? I like this man, but I am not affected by the current "he can do it" kind of worship I am seeing. I agree that he is a marvelous candidate, and I am grateful for those who are working hard for his candidacy. But how the faithful perceive him won't get him elected. It is how the undecided and swing voters see him. Lest anyone think that I am just being negative, I must tell you that he reminds me a great deal of Carter and Clinton at this stage of their Presidential campaigns. By that I mean that he is building a steady groundswell of support. But don't wash out Kerry just yet. It is early, and politics are an ungrateful lover. Keep up the good work on behalf of your candidate, folks. |
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28 Aug 03 - 11:16 AM (#1009621) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Re: undecided and swing voters and Dean. The latest Zogby poll out yesterday states: Full results of the New Hampshire Zogby poll referenced in ... New York Times (Aug 27) are now available online. The results, with available June numbers in parenthesis: Dean 38% (June 22) Kerry 17 (June 25) Lieberman 6 (June 10) Gephardt 6 (June 7) Edwards 4 (June 2) John Zogby says of the results: "This is stunning. Dean's surge seems to be at a heavy cost to Kerry, who led Dean in previous New Hampshire polling. Dean has also taken from Gephardt's standing, and from the undecideds. His support is really across the board … both Congressional districts, men and women, Democrats and independents, liberals and moderates. He's the candidate to watch at the top of the scale, while some of those down the line might re-think their candidacy at this point." Dean is appealing to many swing voters - independents and Republicans concerned about the deficit and the Patriot Act; he has also brought in voters that were apathetic until finding his campaign. See http://republicansfordean.blogspot.com/ http://deanindependents.org/ http://expats4dean.blogspot.com/ |
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28 Aug 03 - 12:33 PM (#1009666) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Today's MSNBC.com column by Howard Fineman says in part: "Party leaders — such as they are — once dismissed Dean's anti-war based message as too narrow and liberal to reach the Democratic mainstream, let alone the swing voters in swing states the Dems need to win the White House back. That argument looks fatuous now, with public patience with the war in Iraq eroding, and with the combat deaths and financial costs mounting steadily. In the latest polls, by Newsweek and others, his views... are as mainstream as can be." Full article From Player to Front Runner http://www.msnbc.com/news/957948.asp |
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28 Aug 03 - 12:43 PM (#1009674) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth As far as Dean's electability is concerned, I keep hearing that he's too far to the left and people won't accept him. Who keeps saying this? As far as I can tell, it's Republicans hoping against hope and members of the Democratic Party who are having an identity crisis about what party they really belong to—the one's who miraculously manage to walk upright despite their lack of spines. I quoted this above about six weeks ago, but I think it merits re-quoting. And perhaps being made into a sampler to hang on the walls in every Democrat's home or office. When voters are given a choice between voting for a Republican, or a Democrat who acts like a Republican, they'll vote for the Republican every time.My three favorite candidates are Dennis Kocinich, Howard Dean, and John Kerry in that order. I don't think Kocinich has a chance of being nominated because he is so outspoken that, although what he says is right on the button, I think he scares people (so in a sense I'm going against my own principle). What Kerry says is pretty good and he has a good, solid background, but as far as I can tell, he has waged a lack-luster campaign so far. He could improve, I guess, when time gets shorter. My fourth and fifth picks would be Sharpton (I like what he says, but I don't know if he has the necessary skills for the job) and Carol Moseley Braun, but I don't think they have a ghost of a chance of even getting nominated. The rest seem to be a sort of faceless mush. Howard Dean's positions are good ones (which is to say, I agree with most of his positions), he obviously has the governing skills (proven), he has an excellent record (his accomplishments in his home state which I regard as very positive), he obviously has the drive, and he obviously has a lot of support early on. I'm open, but so far, Howard Dean looks very good to me. In the meantime, despite what you're liable to hear on Fox News, Bush's approval rating is sinking like a rock. Don Firth |
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28 Aug 03 - 02:00 PM (#1009727) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Nerd Hi Peg Sorry if I misconstrued what you said. Obviously, if another of the candidates comes down closer to you on the issues you care about, you must vote for that person. I would, however, dispute your claim that as a freelance writer your investigations of the research on MJ are on the same order as a doctor's knowledge. Most journalists who write about medical topics get things wrong from the get-go, saying things like "Study shows Broccoli may cure Cancer" when the study really shows that people who ate more broccoli and other high-fiber foods (among other things) got less cancer of the colon. Even in the highest-profile places, such as CNN and the New York Times, medical reporting nearly always distorts the findings of the studies it cites. My family is friends with a health writer for the NY Times, for example, and my father one of the MDs she has often consulted. But she makes gaffes all the time, and almost always they are along the lines of exaggerating the conclusiveness of the evidence. I would be inclined to take Dean's word over yours on how conclusive the evidence really is. By the way, having the FDA evaluate marijuana does not necessarily mean having them do new studies. It can simply mean evaluating it based on the studies you are citing as the sources for your own knowledge. If the doctors, scientists and public health officials at the FDA think that evidence is conclusive, they may not need to do any other studies. I would be inclined to take THEIR word on this over Dean's, and obviously Dean himself feels the same way, a healthy sign of humility, I think. Finally, my point was also that, even if Dean is 100% convinced by studies that have already been done, he cannot simply make MJ a legal medicine without having the FDA examine it. Otherwise, another president (let's say George W. Bush) could simply make another drug legal without having the FDA look at it. Dean's point is that the process must be the same, and people asking for MJ to be certified for medical use by another process are opening a dangerous door, giving politicians more control than they should have over medicine. |
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28 Aug 03 - 07:07 PM (#1009878) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peg Hiya Nerd; with all due respect, I am not only a freelance writer but one whose loved ones have had the very conditions which medicinal marijuana is prescribed for, so maybe have a bit more closeness to the issue. I have also studied alternative medicine and am a healer in my own right. Also, I have met doctors who, despite their medical degress, ahd little to no practical knowledge about nutrition, sexuality, immune system health, you name it. I think our society in general places too much faith in someone just because they have a piece of paper in their hand that says they know such and such. A doctor necessarily has knowledge of internal medicine and anatomy, but, unless they have specifically gone to soem effort to stufy the data and efficacy of medicinal marijuana, and that includes anecdotal reports, then they are no more qualified, and perhaps less so, than I am to speak on the subject. Just as an endocrinologist will have knowledge a gynecologist does not, and vice versa. Why should Dean be better able to address this issue than a layperson who has studied it to a greater degree than he has? That doesn't even make sense. There are plenty of incarcerated prisoners who, after years of studying law books on their own, make beter lawyers than the ones who represented their cases in the first palce. Knowledge and wisdom are not automatically conferred by a title or even a formalized education. here's a bet to place some money on: ask your average GP how to deal with a digestive complaint and odds are they will say nothing about nutrition. Doctors can be great; but they can also be woefully misinformed (just as you're claiming "health writers" can be) and unable to deal with things on the most pragmatic level. |
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28 Aug 03 - 07:13 PM (#1009882) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos Marijuana aside, I think we ought to get Govnuh Dean to drop by at the FSGW Getaway this fall; he's a blues guitarist, and would be meeting a lot of his own kind of folks from all over the nation. Peg -- you want a challenge?? :>) A |
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28 Aug 03 - 07:35 PM (#1009900) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice New poll today in Iowa: Des Moines KCCI NewsChannel 8 poll, with June's results in parenthesis. Dean 25% (June 11) Gephardt 21 (June 27) Kerry 16 (June 14) Lieberman 12 (June 10) Edwards 6 (June 4) |
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28 Aug 03 - 09:38 PM (#1009950) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Nerd Okay, Peg. But Dean, who is a doctor, and who has been asked to express an opinion about Medical Marijuana, has specifically stated that he believes it will be found useful for cancer and aids patients, but not for glaucoma. This to me suggests that he has actually read the studies of MJ. Otherwise, why add these details? That's why I believe he actually HAS researched this. My point was that even when medical journalists do read studies, they almost always misconstrue or misreport the findings of said studies, and almost always exaggerate the good or bad qualities they are commenting on. Doctors, in my experience, are much more careful about this. Your statement is "A doctor necessarily has knowledge of internal medicine and anatomy, but, unless they have specifically gone to soem effort to stufy the data and efficacy of medicinal marijuana, and that includes anecdotal reports, then they are no more qualified, and perhaps less so, than I am to speak on the subject." I agree in part with this, but the effort is not that hard to go to, and I suspect Dean, as a doctor AND a governor, who has had to make policy calls on issues like this, has either read the studies himself or had a staffer supply him with a good summary. He also has the advantage of that superior knowledge of internal medicine and anatomy, which is not irrelevant to the effects of marijuana. My other point is the one you still haven't responded to: All Dean has said is that in the first twelve months he will have the FDA make a ruling on the use of medical marijuana. Surely he can't promise anything more than this, no matter how convinced he is of marijuana's usefulness. The president simply does not and shoukd not have the power to make independent rulings on on individual drugs. So exactly what do you want a candidate to say? |
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29 Aug 03 - 07:02 PM (#1010474) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Some interesting videos on this site... http://switch2dean.com/ Fed-up Republicans, Greens, Independents, Democrats, in their own words tell why they switched to Dean. |
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29 Aug 03 - 10:52 PM (#1010576) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Well, considering it is Labor Day weekend, here is a bit of news that concerns employees in the US. THE GRINCH THAT STOLE LABOR DAY by Greg Palast, Aug 29 In celebration of the working person's holiday, Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao has announced the Bush Administration's plan to end the 60-year-old law which requires employers to pay time-and-a-half for overtime.... (read more) |
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29 Aug 03 - 11:08 PM (#1010585) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Ok, 'Catters, here is a chance to let your talent shine.... http://songsfordean.com/ and to get those songs sung, the sister site is... http://sing.songsfordean.com/ |
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30 Aug 03 - 10:37 AM (#1010755) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peg Amos: that would be so cool! Maybe he could work the Getaway into his tour? Nerd: good points all, and clearly Dean has done *some* homework on this, but he really seems to be passing the buck by deferring to the FDA (but at least he acknowledges some usefulness for cancer patients). I stand by my original assertion that Dean CAN make a stronger, more comprehensive pronouncement on this issue because the data is already there; data that he, as a doctor, could easily have access to and interpret. The research has been done. The FDA has become little more than a rubber-stamp figurehead for the development and manufacture of profitable new drugs. It's a controversial for any candidate, so most of them play it safe just like Dean is doing. I just wish one of them would step up to the plate for once. The pharmaceutical lobby is powerful (and increasingly evil) beyond anyone's dreams. |
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30 Aug 03 - 01:07 PM (#1010810) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth Just a thought. If Dean were to come out in favor of medical marijuana right now, can you imagine what the Republicans (or, for the matter, other Democratic hopefuls) would make of it!?? No matter what he really thinks, Dean is wise to stay cool and loose on this issue. Unfortunately, that's the political reality. Don Firth |
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02 Sep 03 - 11:00 AM (#1011241) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice If you want to see who the other Dean supporters are in your state, you can sign up to Dean Links, a way to contact people without showing your email address to the public. This is a good way to get connected and see what people are doing in your area, even if you don't attend the meetups. DEAN LINKS, a way to meet Dean supporters in your area. |
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02 Sep 03 - 12:26 PM (#1011290) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Over 100,000 people are now signed up at meetup.com to meet every first Wednesday evening in their town, working for Dean's election. There are people not only in the US, but expats all over the world getting together through meetup. Zounds! An exclamation Dean made in an early appearance when he arrived to see a huge crowd assembled to listen to him. Zounds! has become kind of an inside joke because the Dean supporters are amazed again and again by how huge the crowds are and how fast the support is growing. (By the way, there are about 1,000 people at meetup.com for Bush, less people than those in the knitting groups.) Want a tee shirt? At cost, no markup... ZOUNDS! President DEAN September 20 is visiblity Day - posting a Dean sign, wearing a Dean shirt, button, or cap, putting a sticker on your car. You can get more items at www.demstore.com. |
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02 Sep 03 - 12:50 PM (#1011310) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Transcript from the Sept 1 interview of Howard Dean on CNN - some hardballs thrown by Judy Woodruff, hit nicely by the Gov. http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0309/01/se.02.html |
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02 Sep 03 - 08:40 PM (#1011688) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos OF interest on the cannabis thread drift is this page at Wired discussing the Nederlands leaglization of medical marijuana. S |
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02 Sep 03 - 10:01 PM (#1011724) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Over 5,000 people signed up for meetup.com for Dean, just today! That's huge. The total is now up to 103,248, and at the rate people are signing up, there will be many more by the meetings tomorrow night. This is history in the making, folks. No other campaign has ever mobilized the number of grassroots people actively volunteering so early in a primary campaign. |
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02 Sep 03 - 10:03 PM (#1011726) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos Rock on!!! That is very heartening... A |
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03 Sep 03 - 03:20 PM (#1012191) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Zounds again! Over ten thousand people have joined Dean's meetup meetings in the last four days. The total now is well over 105,000. This is not just an internet phenomenon... these people are meeting face to face in their local communities and taking action to support Dean's campaign. Here is an interesting article in the Guardian about the Bush family dynamics - a link someone posted to the Dean blog. I find interesting links reading the blog, just like on Mudcat. http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1033771,00.html Click here |
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03 Sep 03 - 04:51 PM (#1012243) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos ALice: Excellent description,that article -- fits everything I have seen. Sheesh! A |
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04 Sep 03 - 12:24 PM (#1012710) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Nerd Alice, that CNN transcript is great... |
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04 Sep 03 - 11:59 PM (#1013111) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Susan A-R I am fascinated as I watch Dean's campaign unfold. I like a lot of what he is saying. I've lived in Vermont and watched Dean since he was Lieutenant Governor and I don't recognize this fellow. He's generally been moderate to the point of being borderline republican here in VT. I guess folks from Arkansas didn't recognize Clinton either. And they say, come across as liberal in the primaries and conservative in the general election. Oh well. If he comes up with the Democratic nomination, I'll work for him, but if I'm looking for a true liberal/progressive with smarts, Dennis is my man. Susan A-R |
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05 Sep 03 - 01:04 AM (#1013129) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: DougR Alice: sorry to jump into your thread again, but do you really think providing a blue clicky to an article by an author, a psychologist who NEVER personally interviewed the President of the United States lends a lot to your support of Governor Dean? This biased article only offers projections of the authors opinion of GWB. Are they any more credible than yours? Or mine? You don't have to try to convince the majority of the Mudcat that they shouldn't vote for Bush in the next election. They wouldn't anyway! :>) DougR |
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06 Sep 03 - 10:40 PM (#1014122) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Hi, Doug, Mudcat is lefty territory, and I commend you for your valor and integrity dealing with these Democratic threads. Whether it is JFK, Nixon, Clinton, or W. Bush, they are public figures who make their character, actions, and words a matter of public record. We, in turn, can all make our judgements about their character based on the many details they reveal about themselves. More on Dean.... he just won the Democratic straw poll in Tennessee. The top three vote getters were: Dean 348 Gephardt 232 Edwards 125 Heh, heh.... that's the South, folks. Who is unelectable now? Alice |
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06 Sep 03 - 10:42 PM (#1014123) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice More details on the straw poll: HOWARD DEAN WINS TENNESSEE STRAW POLL Howard dean handily won the straw poll of today's 2003 Democratic Party Labor Day celebration, sponsored by numerous labor unions. In attendance was Governor Phil Bredesen, and Congressmen Harold Ford, Bart Gordon and John Tanner. This event is the real deal in Tennessee. |
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07 Sep 03 - 12:07 AM (#1014157) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice The latest Zogby American poll came out today: [L]ikely Democratic primary voters give a plurality of their support to former Vermont Governor Dr. Howard Dean (16%), whose campaign has been gathering support in recent polling. He is followed by Massachusetts Senator John Kerry (13%), Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman (12%), and Missouri Congressman Richard Gephardt (8%). No other candidate polled more than 3%. The same nationwide survey also asked Americans how they would vote if they had to choose today: Just two in five (40%) said they would choose Bush if the election were held today, while 47% said they would elect a Democratic candidate. In August polling, respondents were split (43% each) over President Bush or any Democratic challenger. Here is a link to the Zogby site with details on the poll: Click here |
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16 Sep 03 - 01:19 PM (#1020003) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice As of this morning, 401,287 American voters have joined the Dean campaign. These are the "little people", the ones who can't give $2000 to a campaign luncheon, but can give $10 or $20 a month as well as their time, effort, voices, hearts, and minds. Person by person, they are building a populist movement. The campaign goal is 450,000 people signed up by the end of September. If you or someone you know needs more information about Dean, go to www.deanforamerica.com. Alice |
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16 Sep 03 - 02:40 PM (#1020065) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: TIA Hey Greens and other third-party supporters: Please join this effort. Dean is not politics as usual (Demo or Repo). Watch how the other Dems are beginning to trash him. They do not see him as one of them. That sure as hell appeals to me (a non-Demo). The other Dems are simply Bush Lite. Dean is beginning to appear as the best candidate for the AnyoneButBush party. |
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16 Sep 03 - 05:01 PM (#1020162) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Today I was on the phone with Governor Dean. What can I say... it all seemed calm, cool, and normal, to just be on a conference call with him and others. He told us what volunteers need to focus on before the end of Sept. and answered some questions like the candidacy of Clark (he said Clark is a good man, not worried because it is so late to come in to the campaign). Sept 29 is the day we will meet at house parties and take a conference call with Gov. Dean, an attempt to break the Guinness World record for the number of people on a conference call... and raise at least $200 from each house party. I'm opening my house to others here who want to be in on the conference call on the speaker phone. Look in your area and you may be able to find one you can attend (or start one). www.deanforamerica.com/housecall The campaign is also sending a Dean DVD out to each host so we can watch a presentation. Campaigning has never been so much fun. As I said earlier in this thread, I am seeing a lot of Republicans and former Bush voters fed up and checking out Dean. It is something the Gov mentioned on the phone today, too. He is hearing first hand from people who are Republicans or have relatives who are Republicans who are going to support him. It is similar to the way some Democrats went for Reagan.... but these Republicans are concerned about fiscal responsibility and truth about Iraq. ALice |
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17 Sep 03 - 10:41 AM (#1020751) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice If you are any where near New York City on Sept. 20, you might want to catch this event at the Avalon in Manhattan. The Avalon is new, and Dean supporters are getting an exclusive entry. To guarantee admission, pre-register here: http://www.deanforamerica.com/avalon Click here For a small donation, Dean supporters can hear Governor Dean as he speaks live to his hometown New York crowd at the Avalon, joined by performers Al Franken, Phoebe Snow, Gloria Gaynor, and more. Alice |
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17 Sep 03 - 03:09 PM (#1020940) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,pdq 71 posts (and counting) on one thread? Now soliciting money. We need a new category to go with "music" and "B.S.": "paid advertising". |
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17 Sep 03 - 03:52 PM (#1020977) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos No, we don't PDQ -- this is a legitimate exercise of open-forum dialogue. As something other than music, it qualifies to be listed under the salt, but nothing more than that is needed. Let me point out that the Mother of All BS threads has over 1000 posts. I saw no objection there from you. Hmmm? A |
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17 Sep 03 - 04:22 PM (#1020994) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,pdq Back to square one. Alice personally made 71 out of the first 147 posts. That is not an open forum, that is despotism. "For a small donation, Dean supporters can hear Governor Dean as he speaks..." - quote Alice in 10:41 post Asking for money on top of the endless advocacy is over the line, IMO. |
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17 Sep 03 - 05:02 PM (#1021017) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Amos PDQ: As far as I am concerned she is doing a public service; and dialogue is usually provided half and half between two people, so your numbers do not support your argument; Alice is having a dialogue with the Mudcat, and the Mudcat is ahead, 71 to 76. Besides, she was promoting an opportunity, not asking for money -- why is ithat any worse than telling folks they can have a CD for a small donation? 'Course, you could just send in the money and forego the exchange, if you so desired... :>) A |
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17 Sep 03 - 05:02 PM (#1021018) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice pdq, there are events posted to Mudcat that require a fee to enter. The one I described for New York has some performers Mudcatters might like to see and hear. If this thread annoys you so much, why do you read it? There are many other threads on the forum you could read instead. |
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17 Sep 03 - 09:48 PM (#1021127) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth Unless I missed something, GUEST,pdq, I don't see Alice standing there with a baseball bat, threatening violence to anybody who might want to post to this thread. In fact, quite a few people have, including you. That looks like an open forum to me. I'm curious to know what you mean by by "despotism." People who have been critical of the Bush administration are often called "unpatriotic" by some folks. Is "despotism" something like that? Don Firth |
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17 Sep 03 - 09:56 PM (#1021131) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,pdq Quite true, Alice, and I do believe I made my point politely. I also have the right to make my point(s). Actually, I find charm in the fact that Dean IS the only Democrat running who is not a party insider. He is also an MD. This thread also constitutes free ad time, IMO. |
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17 Sep 03 - 10:16 PM (#1021136) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Peter K (Fionn) Having hitherto been fascinated by Alice's stamina/obsession, I must say that I too found something faintly undefying about the post at which pdq bridled. Just not quite enough to revive the thread. But I fear the game is up, Alice. I've seen Dean in action, and now I've seen Clark, and I fear your man will be blown away by the soldier, despite all that hard work. It's simply no contest. I'm not saying Clark will get the nomination, but if someone else does, it will be someone we haven't seen yet. It doesn't mean either that I'm a huge fan of Clark, though I do think that both he and Dean make Bush look pretty inadequate. They're probably the strongest Democrat candidates I've seen in recent years (Clinton excepted of course). |
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17 Sep 03 - 10:21 PM (#1021137) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,pdq Sorry, Don, your post snuck in while I was not looking. Maybe I got "despotism" from the same place that "anal-retentive demogogic pedant" and other classic names come from: Mudcat Forum! Looking foreward to a good arguement some place in the future. Not here. |
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18 Sep 03 - 02:21 AM (#1021211) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: GUEST,Deanmeister Fionn, in his speech Clark stole every point and even some slogans (we can do better!) from Dean. If he blows Dean away, it will be because people are duped into thinking an ex-soldier is better qualified than a doctor, despite theiridentical positions. |
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18 Sep 03 - 02:32 AM (#1021213) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Big Mick Deanmeister, you can't be serious. Do you think that Dean is the only person with these types of views? Or that he was the original author of much of what he espouses? Your post reads like a person who is worried. I think these are two fine candidates, and Dean comes out on the stronger side from the standpoint of enunciating a position and a plan......for now. In the end those things will be important, but won't be decisive. It will be appeal to a large number of intangibles that add up to the "Walter Cronkite factor". The great middle will go for the person they are most comfortable with. Were I advising Dr. Dean, this is where I would advise him to put his effort. I know his forthrightness is refreshing, I must admit that it appeals to me ...strongly, I might add. But for all his appeal, at this point he makes many folks a bit uncomfortable. This must be overcome if he is to stay in the lead. Clark will be a major factor. So much so that you might see a new Bush ticket with Cheney getting bounced in favor of a Colin Powell. Long shot, but let's see how it plays out. Alice.......keep up the advocacy on behalf of you candidate, no matter what is said here. All the best, Mick |
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18 Sep 03 - 08:42 AM (#1021349) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: curmudgeon Mick --- Bush without Cheney would be like Charlie McCarthy without Edgar Bergen. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with you -- Tom |
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18 Sep 03 - 10:37 AM (#1021428) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice I'm a political news junkie like many Mudcatters. Judging from the personal messages I've gotten regarding this thread (all positive), there are many lurkers who read but don't post who appreciated the news updates I posted. Adding info for a MUSIC event in New York was even more Mudcat appropriate. You've watched my development from interest in June, finding out what Dean is about, to being more involved. I've kept my comments and opinions in this thread rather than starting numerous threads on the topic. I followed the PEL problem in England with the same zeal as I have the Dean campaign. Hey, friends, it is the future of our country at stake and the future of our influence on the world. Knowing as much as we can know about the candidates is important. Being aware of issue statements is important. Hearing their speeches is important. Reading their press releases is important. I listen to the other Dem candidates and what Bush et.al. say, not just Dean. Dean is a new figure on the scene. If he goes up against Bush in the next election (or as Clark's VP) the more we know about him the better. If I was in New York, I'd go see Phoebe Snow and Al Franken and pay a small donation to get in to the show, even if I was a Clark or Kerry supporter. Alice |
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24 Sep 03 - 04:09 PM (#1024524) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice More from Howard Dean's Blog... CSPAN has archived the video of Dean's speech in Boston this week. If you haven't heard him speak, this is a good opportunity. Link: http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/idrive/project/c04/c04092303_dean.rm --------------- Text excerpts from the speech are here: Click here Democracy, Freedom, Action "Our founders understood that threat. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson spoke of the fear that economic power would one day seize political power. "That fear has been realized with the Bush administration. "Under the Bush Administration, the largest corporations and the wealthiest individuals benefit from tax-cuts that are bankrupting the states and starving Social Security, Medicare, and our public schools. "These tax cuts reward the largest political contributors at the expense of today's middle class, whose property taxes are skyrocketing. "The flood of special interest money into Washington has transformed the system of American government from a government participated in by all to a government accessible to only a few. "The oil companies write our energy policy; big pharmaceutical companies draft Medicare reform without price controls; and in Iraq, Halliburton is awarded a $1.7 billion no-bid contract........ "A true Patriot Act is not born out of fear, but out of trust; it is not born out of division, but out of community; it is not born out of suspicion, but out of faith in each of us. "We need to remind this administration what a Patriot Act is. "A neighbor lends a hand to a friend in need that is a Patriot Act. "A mother struggles for her children's future that is a Patriot Act. "An immigrant becomes a member of our American family that is a Patriot Act. "Men and women risk life and limb on behalf of our country through our armed services that is a Patriot Act. "Americans come together as a community and as a country to declare their values, their rights, and their very independence that is a Patriot Act, as it was in 1776 and as it is over two hundred years later and as it will be, through our actions, over two hundred years from now. ".......... --------------------------------------- Hearing the full speech in Dean's voice gives you more of a clear impression of the character of this man. Alice |
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06 Oct 03 - 08:35 PM (#1030925) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Here is an article on The New Republic that I found through Howard Dean's blog. It is a report about the Electoral College, asking DOES THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE FAVOR DEAN?: http://www.tnr.com/etc.mhtml?pid=811 Click here |
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06 Oct 03 - 09:16 PM (#1030955) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Don Firth "Hey, friends, it is the future of our country at stake and the future of our influence on the world. Knowing as much as we can know about the candidates is important. Being aware of issue statements is important. Hearing their speeches is important. Reading their press releases is important." Ever since the shrub and his cabal got in (by whatever method) this country has been circling the drain. If it is ever to be saved from going all the way down the pipe, it will be by people like Alice who educate themselves in what's really going on and who get involved. I think that's what they meant by "an informed electorate." Thank you, Alice!! And may your tribe increase! Don Firth |
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07 Oct 03 - 07:51 PM (#1031500) Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean's Blog From: Alice Here is a link to the "Live at the Avalon" video - performances by Phoebe Snow, Al Franken, and more. http://www.HowardDean.tv/v2/index.asp |
