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24 Jul 03 - 10:13 AM (#989516) Subject: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull is,it,poisonus,or,not? cheers.john |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:18 AM (#989522) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: GUEST not sure if it is poisonous....but I doknow that you should always make sure you don't mistake it for lube.... |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:20 AM (#989527) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Dave Bryant Well if you glued your gullet up, you could die of starvation. Who are you trying to poison, John ? |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:25 AM (#989534) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Pied Piper Yes. Cyanoacrylates PP |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:36 AM (#989549) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull cheersPP. If,a,tooth,falls,out,what,does,the,dentist,use, to,stick,it,back,in? and,can,you,buy,it,from,shop/chemist? |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:36 AM (#989550) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: catspaw49 Actually PP, it has an extremely low toxicity which is why one of it's original and ongoing uses is to replace surgical sutures. Under a great volume of the stuff there is some level of toxicity, but it's a ridiculous amount and you will have glued everything in and on your body together to the point that the poisonous level doesn't matter and death would be a welcome relief! The answer is basically "no" John. Here's an interesting and more informative excerpt from an article by an expert in the field, Bruce Sterling: Cyanoacrylate was first discovered in 1942 in a search for materials to make clear plastic gunsights for the second world war. The American researchers quickly rejected cyanoacrylate because the wretched stuff stuck to everything and made a horrible mess. In 1951, cyanoacrylate was rediscovered by Eastman Kodak researchers Harry Coover and Fred Joyner, who ruined a perfectly useful refractometer with it -- and then recognized its true potential. Cyanoacrylate became known as Eastman compound #910. Eastman 910 first captured the popular imagination in 1958, when Dr Coover appeared on the "I've Got a Secret" TV game show and lifted host Gary Moore off the floor with a single drop of the stuff. This stunt still makes very good television and cyanoacrylate now has a yearly commercial market of $325 million. Cyanoacrylate is an especially lovely and appealing glue, because it is (relatively) nontoxic, very fast-acting, extremely strong, needs no other mixer or catalyst, sticks with a gentle touch, and does not require any fancy industrial gizmos such as ovens, presses, vices, clamps, or autoclaves. Actually, cyanoacrylate does require a chemical trigger to cause it to set, but with amazing convenience, that trigger is the hydroxyl ions in common water. And under natural atmospheric conditions, a thin layer of water is naturally present on almost any surface one might want to glue. Cyanoacrylate is a "thermosetting adhesive," which means that (unlike sealing wax, pitch, and other "hot melt" adhesives) it cannot be heated and softened repeatedly. As it cures and sets, cyanoacrylate becomes permanently crosslinked, forming a tough and permanent polymer plastic. In its natural state in its native Superglue tube from the convenience store, a molecule of cyanoacrylate looks something like this: CN / CH2=C \ COOR The R is a variable (an "alkyl group") which slightly changes the character of the molecule; cyanoacrylate is commercially available in ethyl, methyl, isopropyl, allyl, butyl, isobutyl, methoxyethyl, and ethoxyethyl cyanoacrylate esters. These chemical variants have slightly different setting properties and degrees of gooiness. After setting or "ionic polymerization," however, Superglue looks something like this: CN CN CN | | | - CH2C -(CH2C)-(CH2C)- (etc. etc. etc) | | | COOR COOR COOR The single cyanoacrylate "monomer" joins up like a series of plastic popper-beads, becoming a long chain. Within the thickening liquid glue, these growing chains whip about through Brownian motion, a process technically known as "reptation," named after the crawling of snakes. As the reptating molecules thrash, then wriggle, then finally merely twitch, the once- thin and viscous liquid becomes a tough mass of fossilized, interpenetrating plastic molecular spaghetti. And it is strong. Even pure cyanoacrylate can lift a ton with a single square-inch bond, and one advanced elastomer-modified '80s mix, "Black Max" from Loctite Corporation, can go up to 3,100 pounds. This is enough strength to rip the surface right off most substrates. Unless it's made of chrome steel, the object you're gluing will likely give up the ghost well before a properly anchored layer of Superglue will. Superglue quickly found industrial uses in automotive trim, phonograph needle cartridges, video cassettes, transformer laminations, circuit boards, and sporting goods. But early superglues had definite drawbacks. The stuff dispersed so easily that it sometimes precipitated as vapor, forming a white film on surfaces where it wasn't needed; this is known as "blooming." Though extremely strong under tension, superglue was not very good at sudden lateral shocks or "shear forces," which could cause the glue- bond to snap. Moisture weakened it, especially on metal-to-metal bonds, and prolonged exposure to heat would cook all the strength out of it. The stuff also coagulated inside the tube with annoying speed, turning into a useless and frustrating plastic lump that no amount of squeezing of pinpoking could budge -- until the tube burst and and the thin slippery gush cemented one's fingers, hair, and desk in a mummified membrane that only acetone could cut. Today, however, through a quiet process of incremental improvement, superglue has become more potent and more useful than ever. Modern superglues are packaged with stabilizers and thickeners and catalysts and gels, improving heat capacity, reducing brittleness, improving resistance to damp and acids and alkalis. Today the wicked stuff is basically getting into everything. Including people. In Europe, superglue is routinely used in surgery, actually gluing human flesh and viscera to replace sutures and hemostats. And Superglue is quite an old hand at attaching fake fingernails -- a practice that has sometimes had grisly consequences when the tiny clear superglue bottle is mistaken for a bottle of eyedrops. (I haven't the heart to detail the consequences of this mishap, but if you're not squeamish you might try consulting The Journal of the American Medical Association, May 2, 1990 v263 n17 p2301). Superglue is potent and almost magical stuff, the champion of popular glues and, in its own quiet way, something of an historical advent. There is something pleasantly marvelous, almost Arabian Nights-like, about a drop of liquid that can lift a ton; and yet one can buy the stuff anywhere today, and it's cheap. There are many urban legends about terrible things done with superglue; car-doors locked forever, parking meters welded into useless lumps, and various tales of sexual vengeance that are little better than elaborate dirty jokes. There are also persistent rumors of real-life superglue muggings, in which victims are attached spreadeagled to cars or plate-glass windows, while their glue-wielding assailants rifle their pockets at leisure and then stroll off, leaving the victim helplessly immobilized. While superglue crime is hard to document, there is no question about its real-life use for law enforcement. The detection of fingerprints has been revolutionized with special kits of fuming ethyl-gel cyanoacrylate. The fumes from a ripped-open foil packet of chemically smoking superglue will settle and cure on the skin oils left in human fingerprints, turning the smear into a visible solid object. Thanks to superglue, the lightest touch on a weapon can become a lump of plastic guilt, cementing the perpetrator to his crime in a permanent bond. And surely it would be simple justice if the world's first convicted superglue mugger were apprehended in just this way. |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:39 AM (#989554) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull thanks,Spaw. one,of,my,teeth,is,almost,fell,out. can,i,stick,it,back,with,a,drop,of,superglue? I,know,i,should,see,a,dentist,but,it,doesent,hurt and,I'm,absolutely,terrified,of,dentists. |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:44 AM (#989562) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Ron Olesko okay, I will be the one to ask... what is up with the commas???? |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:47 AM (#989566) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull my,keyboard,is,busted. |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:49 AM (#989569) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: catspaw49 Superglue accident with his keyboard............ John.....You got something else loose if you're thinking of doing "Home Dentistry." Any bits left under the tooth will make it decay quickly and possibly cause a severe infection. Geeziz man, go see a dentist!!! Spaw |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:49 AM (#989570) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Dave the Gnome Sheesh, Spaw. I think I prefer it coming out of your other end...;-) I think you can use Super Glue, John, but you can also buy some stuff in the chemists specificaly for the purpose. Can't remember what is called though. PM me your address and I will post you a keyboard where the space bar works BTW or I can send one with someone who is going to Whitby if that helps? Cheers DtG |
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24 Jul 03 - 10:52 AM (#989577) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: GUEST,KB Well, go for it John. My brother-in-law did exactly what you are proposing. Unfortunately he did it during a long pub afternoon and managed to glue his upper lip to his teeth in an Elvis style sneer. I imagine there was beer spluttered down more than a few shirtfronts that afternoon. |
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24 Jul 03 - 11:48 AM (#989626) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Superglue is great for most home repair purposes - however, it would not repair my Clorox Grab-It mop, which broke in the middle after being used twice. :-( |
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24 Jul 03 - 12:08 PM (#989649) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: GUEST,amergin well kim...quit beating your hubby with it.... ;) |
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24 Jul 03 - 12:18 PM (#989663) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Amos John: Yes, you can -- it wopn't kill you, but it won't last forever either. I've used to temporarily replace crown facings. Easier to get over your fear of dentist and face the music. A |
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24 Jul 03 - 12:53 PM (#989692) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Clinton Hammond When yer in town seeing a dentist, get a new keyboard... sheesh... |
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24 Jul 03 - 01:13 PM (#989715) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Donuel Well spaw said it all but I saw a man whose super glue accident became infected with staff and half his face looked like motorcyle road rash. |
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24 Jul 03 - 01:14 PM (#989716) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Benjamin And while your in town getting a new keyboard, see a dentist! Sheesh... |
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24 Jul 03 - 02:10 PM (#989774) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: McGrath of Harlow I'm a lot more scared of superglue than I am of dentists. Not about being poisoned, but about getting bits of me stuck to other bits of me or other things. |
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24 Jul 03 - 02:15 PM (#989777) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Sorcha Face it friends, jOhn9 from Planet Hull will never,ever see a dentist. Dentists are crap and they rip you off. He'll super glue it for a while then pull it. He pulled the last one that was bugging him. |
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24 Jul 03 - 02:21 PM (#989781) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Amergin they sure do rip you off...my folks have been trying for over two weeks to find a dentist that will pull my sisters tooth out....they finally found one.... granted i kept offering to do it myself....smash her fingers then yank the tooth out....with pliers...but they wouldn't take me up on it....on account of the blood....even though i offered to make blood pudding.... |
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24 Jul 03 - 02:52 PM (#989820) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Beccy Two important things- Superglue can protect a cut that keeps opening up. I have used it and consider it much less dangerous that getting whatever is in the diaper being changed in a cut. (This is per my family doctor...) Second- if you get superglue on someplace it ought not be, just use nail polish remover to undo the bond. Acetone is a miracle substance in conjunctio with superglue! Beccy |
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24 Jul 03 - 04:21 PM (#989883) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Bill D Super glue fumes can be very toxic, if much is used...(I use professional grades (there are 3 different cosisitencies) of the stuff for woodworking)...Dentists would NOT use it, as it is brittle when dry and reacts too quickly with moisture from the mouth. You run a real risk of gluing the wrong things together, as getting a drop in exactly the right spot is not easy. ...if a tooth is almost out, there is not much that can be done except build a new one, and that ain't cheap. I suppose it depends which tooth it is...but I would suggest ASKING a dentist what he thinks, even if you decide not to let him do anything. |
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24 Jul 03 - 05:20 PM (#989930) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: McGrath of Harlow You can get emergency do-it-yourself dentist kits for taking on holiday, from Boots and probably other chemists. Here is a story about this from the BBC. Cost about £10 and they have they have the basic stuff you might use to patch yourself. A lot safer than messing arond with stuff from B & Q that isn't meant for this kind of thing. (Save that for the keyboard...) |
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24 Jul 03 - 05:26 PM (#989935) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Liz the Squeak I have a crown in my top front teeth. It came out. I made an appointment to see my dentist, waited the 3 days (all the while looking like Shane McGowan of the Pogues and lithping like a Thpanish Thovereign) for the appointment and then sat in the waiting room for another 45 mins after my appointment time. 5 minutes later I was out and being charged £95 for the appointment and the privilege of sitting on a hard chair with a 3 year old magazine and having my crown fixed back in with a tube of ordinary UHU superglue. The words 'F*^& that for a game of soldiers' crossed my mind and I've bought my own superglue ever since. LTS |
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24 Jul 03 - 05:29 PM (#989939) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Sorcha I can't quite imagine what a dentist would say if one saw jOhn's mouth......... |
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24 Jul 03 - 06:14 PM (#989975) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: McGrath of Harlow Some people swear by self-trepanation... |
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24 Jul 03 - 09:00 PM (#990088) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Bassic OK John, I will take you to the dentist myself!! I know where you live! And I am bigger than you..............but then again I have never been a mass murderer(slaughterman)..............you know secrets about me.............oh sod it....................A-Z sell superglue for 10p a tube. |
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24 Jul 03 - 09:42 PM (#990109) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Sorcha Please do it, Bassic. He needs antibiotics at the least. |
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25 Jul 03 - 03:10 AM (#990219) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: GUEST,Boab D Funnily enough I have a couple of things here for fixing broken teeth and crowns. Cavitt is a paste but it has to be used quickly and mainly for filling holes in teeth but it does seem to fall out quickly and you have to ensure that the tooth is totally dry. The other is dentanurse fixes anything comes with a needle a mirror and a wee spattula what more can you ask for. If you can when your oon your hodilays this is the one that I would recommend. There is also a wee thing called Histacryll that is like super glue for skin and we use it in places such as the scalp in place of sutures in discreet places to save time and it also reduces the risk of infection due to the sealing of the wound from the outside elements. The thing is it's quite expensive and if your not quick it sticks to your gloves and to your patients head( oh I have done this) so a wee scalpul and more histacryll please Dylan |
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25 Jul 03 - 05:58 AM (#990274) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Dave Bryant The first Cyanoacrylate glue that I encountered was actually sold for fixing split finger nails. I still use Superglue for that purpose now and again. |
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25 Jul 03 - 06:44 AM (#990291) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Gurney And a real hero could give himself a vasectomy with superglue, just inject it straight into the cord and put a clothes-peg on it. I read that they did that in China, but good grief..... |
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25 Jul 03 - 09:35 AM (#990378) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: GUEST,sledge The first aid fixes people have mentioned are just that and should only be used as such, quite a few of them contain clove oil which is great for short term use but long term will affect the vitality of the nerve. They also lack the strength to stand up to long term use, eating can be hard on them. Any restorative action will need a dentist as the rot will undoubtedly penetrate way past any individuals ability to deal with it themselves, to get a good seal the rotten protion of tooth will need removing before the filling is applied. If a tooth falls out, then put it in a glass of milk and take it to a dentist for it to be reinserted, but this needs to be done quickly, a matter of hours, or the pulp in the centre of the tooth dies and it becomes a waste of time. The only other way whole teeth can be reinserted as such is for a post to be embedded in the jaw and the shell of the tooth fixed to it, this is not always successful and may lead to bone loss and weakening of the jaw in the area around the post. Also expensive. Unless theres an abcess or similar infective process antibiotics are not normally required for dental treatment, at least in the UK. Learning how to brush properly is more important thank most people think, as is regular replacement of the tooth brush. Cheers Sledge |
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30 Jul 03 - 10:51 PM (#993904) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull |
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30 Jul 03 - 11:48 PM (#993936) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Amos In light of other threads currently in play I feel it is imperative to add that, John, while you may be able to fix a loose cap with super-glue, on NO ACCOUNT should you use it to treat haemmorrhoids. Repeat -- NO account, do not do it, ixnay on the oids-ray, okay? A |
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30 Jul 03 - 11:56 PM (#993939) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull heloo,i,put,something,hrre,but,its,gone. and,i;lm.tooo,drunk,to,member,waht,ut,was,.john |
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31 Jul 03 - 12:41 AM (#993954) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Stilly River Sage I guess no one has delivered that new keyboard to John yet. Hurry, please, someone take pity on all of us! |
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31 Jul 03 - 04:13 AM (#994006) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Roger the Skiffler So now you know what happened to the couple who confused the superglue with the KY jelly.... either their mop fell apart or their teeth fell out! RtS (I'll get me hat....) |
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31 Jul 03 - 11:25 AM (#994210) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: JennyO Maybe superglue got into John's keyboard? ;-) |
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31 Jul 03 - 12:09 PM (#994248) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Amos Or a couple of his cognitive processes... A |
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31 Jul 03 - 12:20 PM (#994259) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Amos ...or maybe its me who is being stuck-up..... [groan} I'll go quietly.... |
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31 Jul 03 - 12:38 PM (#994280) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: jimmyt As a practicing dentist (or according to some of you, a ripoff artist) I am intrigued by this thread. I could not give John counsel about this situation without actually seeing his mouth to evaluate just what in the hell the problem is! Most likely it is gum disease (periodontitis), in which case, if the disease has progressed to the point that the tooth is ready to fall out, no-one or nothing is going to save it, period. Not Superglue, not Cavit (which by the way is totally contraindicated for vital teeth and could easily cause the tooth to abscess) not glasses of milk, not k,e,y,b,o,a,r,d,s,! but it is a good read. Well, gotta get back to ripping people off!cheers jimmyt |
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31 Jul 03 - 01:21 PM (#994311) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Benjamin Thanks Jimmy, I was waiting for your oppinion on all of this! Later BMW |
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31 Jul 03 - 01:56 PM (#994351) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Bill D when teeth get just too bad, the only recourse is bridges and full or partial plates, if I understand it right...and that is a bit expensive for John. (Do they have free/cheap dental work in dental colleges in the UK as they do here? might help, if John could be dragged to one) (Jimmy..it's too bad some people have run into dentists they don't trust..*shrug*...I guess I have been lucky and had several I did like...my current one is VERY good, fair and reasonable. Nothing is cheap these days, and I can imagine what dental equipment, office space, insurance must cost!) |
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31 Jul 03 - 02:11 PM (#994364) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: jimmyt I appreciate the kind words, Bill. I feel very bad for people who cannot afford the cost of dentistry, and do quite a lot of charity as well as working monthly at a free clinic for indigents. I also see troubled youth from a couple group homes. I was once a dental phobic myself so I can appreciate the fear some people have first hand of going to the dentists. I do find it fascinating that in a website so full of "political correctness" it seem perfectly fair to stereotype a profession like some have. Hang in there John! If you can get over here, I will fix you up at no charge! Even sedate you (although that may be no small task!) |
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31 Jul 03 - 03:09 PM (#994413) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: okthen Apart from Johns phobia,which probably means he's not registered with a National Health dentist, he would have to find a dentist to register with.An item on National news here in UK, about a dental practice in the Northeast (Newcastle?)that stopped treating National Health patients, a rumour started that a practice was accepting new Nat.Health patients and some people waited all night to be first in the morning. Am I wrong, but isn't this a result of Thatcher improving things? |
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31 Jul 03 - 05:03 PM (#994480) Subject: RE: BS: Is,Superglue,poisonus? From: Hollowfox (slight thread creep) Never had dentist-phobia myself. When I was a wee tot in for my first dental appointment, nobody explained what was going to happen. So when some lunatic stuck his fingers in my mouth - I bit him. We reached an understanding, and neither of us had a problem with the other ever after. |