Tune Req: Princess Royal

27 Jul 03 - 05:25 PM (#991583)
Subject: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Gordon (Cutty Wren Folk Club, Marske)

Can any of you good people help me locate the music for this fine tune? I first heard it on Martin Simpson's CD 'The Bramble Briar' and I would like to try to play it on the whistle.

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27 Jul 03 - 05:28 PM (#991587)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: McGrath of Harlow

There are (at least) two versions, the one on Morris On, and another strange melancholy one they always play at Standon May Festival.

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27 Jul 03 - 05:30 PM (#991588)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Sorcha

From JC's Tunefinder, take your pick.

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27 Jul 03 - 06:31 PM (#991620)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Leadfingers

Originally an O Carolan tune Modifeid to use by Morris sides by taking out the minor. Maire Ni Cathasaigh and Chris Newman do the O Carolan and any Morris melodeon player should provide the other tune.

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27 Jul 03 - 08:14 PM (#991656)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

In Lesley Nelson's page called
Turlough O'Carolan - Music in Midi Format
scroll down to the one called Miss MacDermott (Princes Royal). There are two Midi versions by Barry Taylor. A beautiful tune. It's the first tune I heard Mudcatter alison play on her Celtic harp.

Helen

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27 Jul 03 - 08:25 PM (#991663)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Masato

Here's a sound clip of "The Princess Royal" on Martin Simpson's Bramble Briar.

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28 Jul 03 - 09:10 AM (#991904)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Snuffy

There are roughly two dozen different Morris versions of this tune, about equally divided between Major and Minor

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28 Jul 03 - 09:17 AM (#991910)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: clueless don

I listened to the clip provided by GUEST,Masato. Gad! Nothing wrong with it, but a *very* different tune from the Princess Royal that I know (as performed, e.g. by the Chieftains on "Bonaparte's Retreat" [I think].)

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28 Jul 03 - 09:43 AM (#991928)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: The Borchester Echo

You ain't heard nothing till you listen to the John Spiers arrangement of the Abingdon version of Princess Royal on Bellow (Fellside FECD 175). Cuckoo's Nest (arr Spiers/Boden) is even weirder. But brilliant!

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28 Jul 03 - 09:55 AM (#991936)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: The Borchester Echo

Oh, and the notation is on their website:http://www.squeezy.fsnet.co.uk/spiers_boden/

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28 Jul 03 - 11:25 PM (#992401)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Ely

The Martin Simpson one is almost the one I know, only I learned it with even timing, not his slow down-speed up thing. I love the tune, though--I learned it from a concertina player but I play it on the lap dulcimer. (I like the minor version, too, but can't play it).

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29 Jul 03 - 07:45 AM (#992555)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,squeezy

That slow down thing isn't Martin Simpson's creation, it's called morris slows. So that tells me that he's playing a morris version (haven't heard the recording in question). It's the bit of the dance where the dancers show off how high they can jump/caper etc. If it's in minor key it's probably the Bampton version.

Cheers

squeezy

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29 Jul 03 - 08:27 AM (#992574)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: The Borchester Echo

Martin Simpson said once that he got the tune from Maurice Ogg who was a Lincolnshire concertina player. Having listened to the clip above (which sounds like the melody is being played on an accordian), it did remind me of the one memorable occasion when I saw the Bampton side dance.

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29 Jul 03 - 05:08 PM (#992796)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: treewind

Just been to Squeezy's site (not for the first time) and didn't find any notation for PR. It is buried in the message board somewhere?

Anahata

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29 Jul 03 - 05:21 PM (#992809)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: McGrath of Harlow

Basically when the Morris Dancer levitates it's necessary to slow down till he (or she) comes down to earth again...

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29 Jul 03 - 05:27 PM (#992816)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: The Borchester Echo

Hi Anahata

Sorry, maybe I should have explained. You click on CDs in the navigation and then on the Bellow CD cover.   All the lyrics and notation follow. PR is going to sound wild on the cello. But have you heard Jim Younger's version on the mandolin?

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29 Jul 03 - 09:05 PM (#992976)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,squeezy

Sorry Anahata

It's buried, but not in the messageboard.

As countess said basically, the version is my recollection of the Abingdon version learnt while watching the team dancing when i was quite young so no doubt there are anomalies!

So - My homepage/CDs/Bellow cover/Princess Royal - should find the notation.

Cheers

Squeezy

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29 Jul 03 - 10:14 PM (#992999)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Sorcha

Weren't any of the ones at JC's the right one? And, is it Princess Royal or Princes Royal??

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29 Jul 03 - 10:52 PM (#993018)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Sorcha

Just for completeness, here are the tunes for Princes Royal at JC's:
Click Me, Baby!

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29 Jul 03 - 11:57 PM (#993046)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Malcolm Douglas

Actually, those are all duplicates of the same example. The tune appeared in the contents list of Gow's Repository of the Dance Music of Scotland (part 2, n.d. but before 1807) as The Princes Royal, but this was probably a mis-print, as the tune itself appears, on page 45, as The Princess Royal.

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30 Jul 03 - 08:27 PM (#993835)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: pattyClink

Helen, what an absolutely enchanting site! Thanks for the link.

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30 Jul 03 - 09:02 PM (#993856)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Snuffy

X: 1
T:Princess Royal, Abingdon (BC)
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Abingdon
P:A(A2B2)3A
B:Esperance Book
K:F
P:A
cB|
A2G2 F2cB|ABGA F2fe|d2c2 B2d2|cdcB A2c2|
B2A2 G2F2|EFGE C2cB|AGFA G2E2|F6||
P:B
c2|
d2c2 d2e2|f2c2 f3c |fedc BAGF|E2C2 C4 |
F2F2 G4 |A2F2 f4 |f2c2 d4 |c2A2 B4 |
A2B2 c2A2|GAGE C2cB|AGFA G2E2|F6||

X: 2
T:Princess Royal, Abingdon (MDT)
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Abingdon
P:A(A2B2)3A
K:G
P:A
dc|
B2A2 G2dc|BcBA G2g2|e3d c2e2|d3c B2d2|
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2dc|BABG A2D2|G6z2    ||
P:B
e3e e2f2|g2f2 g4 |g2f2 e2d2|BcBA G3A |
G2G2 A4 |B2G2 g3f |g2d2 e4 |d2B2 c4 |
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2dc|BABG A2D2|G6z2    ||

X: 3
T:Princess Royal, Adderbury
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Adderbury
P:A(AB2)4
K:Dm
P:A
A>G|
F2E2 D2A>G|F2E2 D4 |d3c B2d2|c2B2 A3c |
B2A2 G2F2 |E2D2 C2c2|A2GF G2E2|D4   D2 ||
P:B
z2|
c2c2 c2de |f2F2 F3F |B2A2 G2F2|E2D2 C4 |
F2F2 G3G |A2A2 f4 |f2F2 B4 |d2F2 B4 |
B3A G2F2 |E2D2 C2c2|A2GF G2E2|D4   D2 ||

X: 4
T:Princess Royal, Bampton
M:2/2
L:1/8
Q:1/4=140
A:Bampton
P:AAB(CB)2
K:GMin
P:A
dc|
B2A2 G2dc|B2AB G2Bd|e2c2 cdec|d2dc BABd|
c2B2 A2G2|FGFD B,2dc|B2AG F2d2|G4   G4||
P:B
b2b2 b2ab|c'2f2   f4|bagf edcB|AcF2 F4|
G2GA BABc|d2d2   g3g|f2d2 e3e |d2G2 c4|
dcBA GABc|d2G2 G2dc|B2AG F2d2|G4   G4||
P:C
M:2/4
d3c|
M:4/4
L:1/8
B3c A3B|G4 d3c|B3c A3B|G4 d4|e4 c4|c2d2 e2c2|d4 B4|
M:2/4
BABd|
M:4/4
L:1/8
c2B2 A2G2|FGFD B,2dc|B2AG F2d2|G4   G4||

X: 5
T:Princess Royal, Bidford (CJS)
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
S:CJS
A:Bidford
P:A.(A2BC3)4
K:G
P:A
d>c|
B<cA<B G2d>c|B<cA<B G2cd|e2ed   c2e2|d2dc B2d2|
c2(3BcB A2G2 |F>GA>F D2dc|B<dB<G A2D2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d2|
e2d2    e2f2|g2GG   G2AB|c2B2   A2G2|F2E2 D4 |
DEFG    A2A2|B2d2   g3g |f2d2   e3e |d2G2 c3c |
B2A2    G2B2|AGFE   D2dc|BdBG   A2D2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
zz|
d3c      Bc3 |AB3    G4 |d3c    Bc3 |AB3 G4 |
c2d2    e4 |e2d2   c4 |e4    d4 |d2c2 B3d |
c2(3BcB A2G2|F>GA>F D2dc|B<dB<G A2D2|G4   G2 ||

X: 6
T:Princess Royal, Bidford (JG)
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
S:JG
R:Hornpipe
A:Bidford
P:A.(A2BC3)4.AA
K:G
P:A
dc|
BcAB G2dc|BcAB G2cd|e2ed c2e2|d2dc B2d2|
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2dc|BdBG A2D2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
zd|
e2d2 e2f2|g2GG G2AB|c2B2 A2G2|F2E2 D4 |
DEFG A2A2|B2d2 g4 |f2d2 e4 |d2G2 c4 |
B2A2 G2B2|AGFE D2dc|BdBG A2D2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
dc|BcAB G2dc|\
M:5/4
L:1/8
BcAB G2d3d|\
M:4/4
e4 e3d|c4 e4|d4 d3c|B4 d4|
c4 B4 |A4 G4|F3G A3F|
M:3/4
L:1/8
D4dc|
M:4/4
BdBG A2D2|G4 G2||

X: 7
T:Princess Royal, Bidford (SMM)
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
S:Shakespeare Morris Men
A:Bidford
P:A.(A2BC3)4.AA
Z:vrh 05/03/0
K:G
P:A
dc|
BcAB G2dc|BcAB G2d2|e2ed cde2|d2dc B2d2|
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2dc|BdBG AcAF|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d2|
e2d2 e2f2|g2GG G2AB|c2B2 A2G2|F2E2 D4 |
DEFG A2A2|B2d2 g3g |f2d2 e3e |d2B2 c3c|
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2dc|BdBG AcAF|G4   G2||
P:C
dc|
B3c A3B |G4   d2c2|B3c A3B |G4   d4 |
e4{g}e2d2|c4   e4 |d4{g}d2c2|B4   d4 |
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2dc|BdBG AcAF|G4   G2||

X: 8
T:Princess Royal, Bledington 1
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Bledington
P:AAB(CB)2
K:Am
P:A
AB|
c2Bc A2ed |c2Bc A2e2|f2d2 defg|e2d2 c3e|
ddc2 B2A2 |GAGF E2e2|dcBA G2B2|A4   A2 ||
P:B
e^f|
g2e2 e^fge|a2e2 d4 |aafe dcBA|B2G2 G4 |
A2AB c2c2 |d2d2 g4 |g2e2 f4 |e2A2 d4 |
cBAG ABcd |e2e2 A2e2|dcBA G2B2|A4   A2 ||
P:C
A2B2 c4   |B2c2 A4 |e2d2 c4 |B2c2 A4 |
e4   f4   |d4   d2e2|f2g2 e4 |d4   c3e|
ddc2 B2A2 |GAGF E2e2|dcBA G2B2|A4   A2 ||

X: 9
T:Princess Royal, Bledington 2
M:4/4
L:1/8
R:Hornpipe
A:Bledington
P:AAB(CB)2
K:GDor
P:A
dc|
B2A2 G2dc |B2A2 G2dd |e2c2 cdec|d2B2 B2-Bd|
c2BB A2G2 |F2EE D2c2 |B2AG F2A2|G4   G2   ||
P:B
de|
f2d2 defd |g2G2 G4   |gfed cBAG|A2F2 F2-FF|
G2G2 B2-BB|c2c2 f2-ff|e2c2 d2dc|B2G2 c4   |
BAGF GABc |d2G2 G2dc |B2AG F2A2|G4   G2z2 ||
P:C
d3c B4   |A4   G4   |d3c B4 |A4   G4   |
d3d e4   |c4   c3d |e3c d4 |B4   B2-Bd|
c2BB A2G2 |F2EE D2c2 |B2AG F2A2|G4   G2   ||

X: 10
T:Princess Royal, Ducklington
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Ducklington
P:A(AB)2CB
K:Gm
P:A
d>c|
B2A>B G2d>c |B2A>B G2c>d| e2c2   c>de>c|d2B2 B2d2|
c2B2 A2G2 |F>GF>E D2d2 |(3BcB AG A2F2 |G4   G4 ||
P:B
K:Dm
d2c2 d2ee |f2F2   F4   | f2e2    d2cB |A2G2 G4 |
F2G2 A4    |B2c2   d4   | c2A2    B4    |A2D2 G4 |
F2E2 D2FG |A2D2   D2AG |(3FGF ED E2C2 |D4   D4 ||
P:C
      A3G   |
F4    EF3   |
D4    A3G   |
F4    EF3   |M:3/4 L:1/8
D4    GA    |M:4/4
=B2G2 G>AB>G|M:6/4 L:1/8
A2F2 F4 A4 |M:4/4
F4    E4    |
D4    F2G2 |
A4    D4    |M:3/4 L:1/8
D4    AG    |M:4/4
(3FGF ED E2C2|
D4    D4    ||

X: 11
T:Princess Royal, Fieldtown
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Fieldtown
P:AAB(CB)2
K:G
P:A
GA|
B2A2 G2dc|B2AB G3d |e2c2 c2e2|d2c2 B3d|
cdB2 A2G2|F2E2 D2c2|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
Z2|
g2g2 g2fg|a2d2 d4 |g2d2 d2c2|BAGF E3F|
G2AB c2d2|e2e2 g4 |g2e2 g4 |e2A2 d4 |
d2cB A2G2|F2E2 D2c2|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
GA|
B4   A4 |G4   d2c2|B4   A2B2|G4   d4 |
e4   c4 |c4   e4 |d4   c4 |B4   d4 |
cdB2 A2G2|F2E2 D2c2|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||

X: 12
T:Princess Royal, Longborough 1
M:2/2
L:1/8
Q:1/4=140
A:Longborough
P:AAB(CB)2
K:GDor
P:A
dc|
B2A2 G2dc|B2A2 G3d |e2c2 defe|d2c2 B3d |
c2B2 A2G2|FFFE D2dc|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
z^f|
g2^f2 g2fg|a2d2 d3e |f2e2 d2cB|BABG F2F2|
G2GA B2c2|defd g3g |f2d2 e3e |d2G2 c3c |
B2A2 G2F2|GABA G2dc|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
M:2/4 L:1/8
d3c|
M:2/2
B4    A4 |G4   d3c |B4   A4 |G4   d4 |
e4    c4 |d2e2 f2e2|d4   B4 |
M:2/4 L:1/8
B3d|
M:4/4
c2B2 A2G2|FFFE D2dc|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||

X: 13
T:Princess Royal, Longborough 2
M:2/2
L:1/8
Q:1/4=140
A:Longborough
P:AAB(CB)2
K:GMin
P:A
d2|
cBAB G2d2| cBAB G2d2|e3d c2f2 |edcd B2d2|
c2B2 A2G2|^F2G2 D2dc|BABG A2^F2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d2|
g3^f g2a2| b3B B2f2|bagf edcB |A2F2 F2F2|
B2AB c2Bc| d2d2 g3g |f2B2 e3e |d2G2 c4 |
cBAB G2B2| A2d2 D2dc|BABG A2^F2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
M:2/4 L:1/8
d4|
M:2/2
c2B2 A2B2| G4   d4 |c2B2 A2B2| G4   d4 |
e6    d2 | c4   f4 |e2d2 c2d2|
M:2/4 L:1/8
B3d|
M:4/4
c2B2 A2G2|^F2G2 D2dc|BABG A2^F2|G4   G2 ||

X: 14
T:Princess Royal, Oddington 1
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
S:Shakespeare Morris Men
A:Oddington
P:A.AB(CB)2
Z:vrh 05/03/0
K:G
P:A
dc|
BcAB G2d2 |BcAB G2d2|efed c2e2|d2dc B2d2|
cBcB A2G2 |AGFE D2d2|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d>e|
f2d2 d2ef |g2G2 G2f2|gagf e2d2|cBAG G2D2|
G2AB c2c2 |defd g3f |g2d2 e3e |d2G2 c4 |
d2cB c2A2 |G2AF D2d2|B2AG A2d2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
M:2/4 L:1/8
d3c|M:4/4
B3c B2A2-|A2AB G4 |d3c B3c |B2A4   AB|
G4   d4   |e4   d4 |c3d e2f2|d4   d3c-|c3c B2d2 |
c2B2 A2G2 |AGFE D2dc|B2AG F2d2|G4   G2 ||

X: 15
T:Princess Royal, Oddington 2
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
S:Shakespeare Morris Men
A:Oddington
P:A.AB(CB)2
Z:vrh 05/03/0
K:G
P:A
dc|
BcAB G2d2 |BcAB G2d2|efed c2e2|d2dc B2d2|
cBcB A2G2 |AGFE D2d2|B2AG A2F2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d>e|
f2d2 d2ef |g2G2 G2de|fgfe d2c2|dcBA G2D2|
G2AB c2c2 |defd g3g |g2d2 e3e |d2G2 c4 |
B2cB c2A2 |AGFE D2d2|B2AG F2A2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
M:2/4 L:1/8
d3c|M:4/4
B3c B2A2-|A2AB G4 |d3c B3c |B2A4   AB|
G4   d4   |e4   d4 |c3d e2f2|d4   d3c-|c3c B2d2 |
c2B2 A2G2 |AGFE D2dc|B2AG F2d2|G4   G2 ||

X: 16
T:Princess Royal, Sherborne 1
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
A:Sherborne
P:A.AB(CB3)3
K:G
P:A
dc|
BcAB G2d2|BcAB G2c2|e2ed c2e2|d2d2 B2d2|
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2c2|B2AG F2d2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d2|
e2dd e2f2|g2G2 G4 |g2gf e2d2|BcBG E2EF|
G2A2 B4 |c2d2 g4 |f2d2 e4 |d2B2 c3e |
d2d2 c2A2|FGFE D2c2|B2AG A2d2|G4   G2 ||
P:C
M:2/4 L:1/8
d3c|
M:2/2
B4   A3B |G4   d3c |B4   A3B |G4   c3d |
e4   e3d |c4   e4 |d4   d3c |B6   d2 |
c2B2 A2G2|FGAF D2c2|B2AG F2d2|G4   G2 ||

X: 17
T:Princess Royal, Sherborne 2
M:4/4
L:1/8
A:Sherborne
P:AAB(CB)2
K:F
P:A
cB|
ABAG F2c2|ABAG F2c2|d2c2 B2A2|c2B2 A2A2|
B2A2 G2F2|EFED C2B2|A3F G2c2|F4   F2 ||
P:B
c2|
d2c2 d2e2|f2F2 F4 |f2fe d2c2|ABAG F3F |
F2G2 A3A |B2d2 f3f |e2c2 d2d2|c2A2 B3B |
B2A2 G2F2|EFED C2B2|A3F G2c2|F4   F2 ||
P:C
M:2/4 L:1/8
c3B|M:2/2
A3B A3G |F4   c3B |A3B A3G |F4   B3c |
d4   d3c |B4   d4 |c4   c3B |A4   c3A |
B2A2 G2F2|EFED C2B2|A3F G2c2|F4   F2 ||

X: 18
T:Princess Royal, Stanton Harcourt
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
A:Stanton Harcourt
P:A2B4
K:Gm
P:A
GA|
B2AB G2cB |B2AB G2d2|e2c2 cdef|d2c2 B3d |
ccB2 A2G2 |FGFE D2d2|cBAG F2A2|G4   G2 ||
P:B
d=e|
f2d2 d=efd|g2d2 c4 |gg=ed cBAG|A2F2 F4 |
G2GA B2B2 |c2c2 g2g2|f2d2 e2fe|d2G2 c2dc|
BAGF GABc |d2d2 G2d2|cBAG F2A2|G4   G2 ||

---

31 Jul 03 - 01:36 AM (#993967)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

pattyClink,

The Contemplator site is probably my favourite music site on the 'Net, not counting Mudcat of course which is in a league of its own.

Helen

---

31 Jul 20 - 07:58 AM (#4066691)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Barry Winkworth

Can anyone point me in the direction of notation for Sam Sweeney's version of Princess Royal on his album Unearth Repeat, please?

Many thanks
Barry

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31 Jul 20 - 10:10 AM (#4066700)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: RTim

The dance from Abingdon is called - "Princes' Royal".......

Tim Radford

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01 Aug 20 - 05:00 AM (#4066822)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Barry Winkworth

Here is a link to the Sam Sweeney track:

Sam Sweeney - Princess Royal

Can anyone advise which of the above ABC's is closest, please?

Thank you,
Barry

---

01 Aug 20 - 10:59 AM (#4066857)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: leeneia

Hi, Barry. Thanks for the link to the Sam Sweeney recording. He is a fine fiddler. Basically he is playing the Turlough O'Carolan 'Princess Royal' embellished with typical fiddle ornaments and variations. It's easier to listen to them and imitate than to work out the notation.

In case you don't know, Carolan, also called O'Carolan, was an Irish harper and composer, died 1737, I believe.

At the site abcnotation.com you can search for Princess Royal and get lots of versions. The one Sam is playing is called 'Carolan's Princess Royal', and you can get sticks & dots, MIDI, PDF or ABC of it.

I am copying the ABC below just to spoil you. Enjoy.

X:2557
T:Carolan's Princess Royal
C:Turlough O Carolan
I:abc2nwc
L:1/16
M:2/4
Q:1/4=90
K:Bb
dc|B2A2 G2dc|B2A2 G2d2|e2ed c2fe|dedc B2d2|
cdcB ABAG|F2E2 D2dc|B2AG BAG^F|G4G2:|
|:d2|g2gf g2a2|b2B2 B2b2|bagf edcB|ABcA F2GA|
B2AB c2Bc|d2d2 g3g|f2d2 e2fe|dcB2 c3d|
cBBA GBAG|F2E2 D2dc|B2AG BAG^F|G4G2:|

=================
Threads on The Princess Royal get confused fast, because some songs called that seem to be about the woman, the Princess Royal (of whom there have been seven, ending in today's Princess Anne) and some of them are about a boat called The Princess Royal. Tunes vary, but the Carolan tune is probably the most common.

---

03 Aug 20 - 12:04 PM (#4067133)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Barry Winkworth

Thank you leeneia

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03 Aug 20 - 12:43 PM (#4067136)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

There's a commemorative statue to O'Carolan in the centre of Mohill, Co Leitrim, just off the N4 Dublin- Sligo road.

If you're heading northwest and love his miusic, well worth a visit?

---

03 Aug 20 - 05:30 PM (#4067172)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Thanks Guest. If I ever make it to Ireland that statue to O'Carolan would be #1 on my list of places to go.

This thread has solved a mystery for me. I have heard different versions of The Princess Royal which seem like totally different tunes. Now I understand about its use in Morris dancing and working the tune to fit the dance moves.

O'Carolan's tune Miss MacDermott Roe/The Princess Royal is a beautiful tune.

The music notation is in the O'Carolan tunes section of
O'Neill's Music of Ireland

Scroll down to find Princess Royal (just before the Planxty tunes in the index) for links to music notation and a MIDI file.

Note: the Old Music Project, O'Neill's Music of Ireland is a brilliant site. One of my absolute favourite sites on the internet.

The tune was first published in the book by Edward Bunting The Ancient Music of Ireland

and later in the comprehensively researched book by Donal O'Sullivan: Carolan: The Life Times and Music of an Irish Harper

---

03 Aug 20 - 06:17 PM (#4067181)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GeoffLawes

A lot to choose from on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=princess+royal+tune+youtube

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29 Aug 20 - 02:21 AM (#4070040)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Guest

It would appear that Sam Sweeney's version of The Princess Royal is from the Winders of Wyresdale tune book.

He says so on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0rIqxRM50

at about 1hr 03mins in.

---

29 Aug 20 - 09:28 AM (#4070056)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

Here's what Glostrad has to say on the tune:

Princess Royal was composed by Irish harper Turlough O’Carolan (1670-1738), who called it “Miss MacDermott, or The Princess Royal”. The MacDermott princes traditionally presided at the inauguration of the kings of Connacht. Hence the reference to the “Princess Royal”.
William Shield adapted the tune for his song “The Arethusa,” in his opera The Lock and Key, performed in 1796.
In the Cotswolds it is used as a solo morris dance from several different villages, and in Abingdon as a set dance. It occurs in both minor (as the original) and major versions.

Tradsinger

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29 Aug 20 - 11:40 AM (#4070075)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: RTim

It is also a 8 dancer Morris set dance from Adderbury, Oxfordshire...

Tim Radford

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29 Aug 20 - 01:38 PM (#4070085)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Snuffy

And a 6-dancer set dance from Bidford-on-Avon, Worcestershire

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29 Aug 20 - 01:56 PM (#4070088)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Snuffy

Sorry - Bidford is in Warwickshire not Worcestershire. (I should know by now - I've only lived there 35years!!!)

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30 Aug 20 - 10:38 AM (#4070162)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Peter Cripps

All is never what it seems! O'Carolan undoubtedly wrote the tune for Miss McDermott Roe (later Mrs Mary O'Rourke) However the claim that the McDermott Roe family were descendants of the Coolavin royal family is disputed, not least by Donal O'Sullivan (1958) 'The Life & Times of an Irish Harper') who thinks that was another branch of the McDermott family entirely! (O'Carolan also wrote tunes for them!)

---

30 Aug 20 - 04:12 PM (#4070180)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: leeneia

Here's an Irish performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B63NJrFGDOc

and here's a Morris (probably) version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B63NJrFGDOc

I don't know why exactly, but the second sounds more cheerful. To me, the Irish version sounds like the grand march of a royal personage.

---

30 Aug 20 - 04:39 PM (#4070182)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: RTim

Here is a Morris Version, by te Morris On Band....and my two children (grown up now!!) are in the photo on stage at Fairport's Cropredy Festival....:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGzQRvIAxV8

Tim Radford

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30 Aug 20 - 07:50 PM (#4070195)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

There's an interesting article by Frank Kidson that throws doubt on the tune being composed by O'Carolan:

JOURNAL ARTICLE
New Lights upon Old Tunes. "The Arethusa"
The Musical Times and Singing Class Circular
Vol. 35, No. 620 (Oct. 1, 1894), pp. 666-668
Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd.
DOI: 10.2307/3363372
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3363372

You have to register to read the article but it's free to do so.

LFF

Best Morris On version

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31 Aug 20 - 12:15 PM (#4070246)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

Nobody was keeping records about O'Carolan during his life, and one can probably cast doubt on anything he is said to have written. why not stop worrying about who wrote what and play the music instead?

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03 Sep 20 - 11:34 AM (#4070623)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Long Firm Freddie

Guest at 31 Aug 20 - 12:15pm is certainly right that we should keep playing the music and much joy we all get from it, I am sure; but if I like a tune I also like to find out all I can about it.

Here's the entry about the tune Arethusa (Princess Royal) written by Frank Kidson in Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians

Arethusa, The (or the Princess Royal)

The song appeared in the opera The Lock and Key, acted 1796, words by Prince Hoare, the music composed and selected by William Shield. It chronicles, in almost accurate detail, an engagement of the English frigate, The Arethusa, with a larger French vessel, La Belle Poule, in the English Channel on June 17, 1778.
The fine air has long been and is yet persistently referred to as the composition of William Shield, who never claimed to do more than add the bass.

Irish writers have also stated that the air is by Carolan, and named The Princess Royal, in honour of the daughter of Macdermott Roe, a descendant of one of the Irish kings. Nothing but tradition favours this view, which Bunting, apparently, first puts into print in 1840, except that in O'Farrell's Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes, vol. iv. c. 1810, there is a version of the melody named Air by Carolan.

The present writer was the first to point out that the air was commonly known in the early part of the 18th century as a country dance tune named The Princess Royal, the new way, and that about 1730-35, it appeared in several London publications. The Princess Royal, after whom the tune was named, was evidently Anne, daughter of George II, who married the Prince of Orange in 1734. This conclusion is further confirmed by finding in the dance collections, in which the tune occurs, printed about 1730-35, other airs named after the family of George II, as Prince William, and Princess Caroline, the first being the hero of Culloden, the Duke of Cumberland and the other the Princess Elizabeth Caroline, his younger sister. This combination is strong evidence that the title 'The Princess Royal' really applies to a living personality then prominently before the public rather than to an obscure descendant of a long extinct race of kings.

Under the name Princess Royall the new way, the air, agreeing, almost note for note, with the Arethusa version, is found in an edition of Walsh's Compleat Country Dancing Master, c. 1730, with a tune named Princess Caroline, on the preceding leaf (a copy of this book is in possession of the present writer), and under the title New Princess Royal in Wright's Compleat Collection of Celebrated Country Dances, vol. i. c. 1730-35 (in the Leeds Public Library). Wright's copy is reprinted from the same plates in a later edition, published by John Johnson. In Wright's dances is the air named Prince William. As The Princess Royal the air also appears in Daniel Wright's Compleat Tutor for Ye Flute, circa 1735 (in possession of the writer). Also, traditional versions of the air have been found used for tunes to Morris dances still retaining the name The Princess Royal.

The subject has been somewhat fully dealt with here for the reason that so many misstatements have been made regarding an English air of great strength and beauty which possesses the best characteristics of our national melody. For some details regarding the air see an article by the present writer, 'New Lights Upon Old Tunes', Musical Times, Oct 1894.

LFF

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04 Sep 20 - 02:24 PM (#4070745)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: leeneia

Thanks for the info, Freddie. So it was printed in several publications in London by 1735. At that early date, it was already part of the great soup bowl of traditional music which nobody knows who wrote it. Ya know, I never did feel that it sounded like Carolan, but let's not go around saying that.

I play it on piano. What do you play it on?

---

04 Sep 20 - 04:23 PM (#4070766)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Peter Cripps

But LFF, the tune in the article by Frank Kidson looks to me (I may be wrong of course!) to be the other Princess Royal, ie not the Carolan tune, but the English folk song

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05 Sep 20 - 05:08 AM (#4070817)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Long Firm Freddie

Hi Leenia

I play it on Anglo Concertina and melodeon (not at the same time, though!)

Hi Peter; I'd say the "Carolan" tune and the folk tune are recognisably similar though of course the World of Morris has adapted it to its own needs as Snuffy's post demonstrates!

The YouTube videos of Mrs Mcdermott certainly bear a strong resemblance to the tune any Morris dancer or musician would recognise.

LFF

Moulton Morris Princess Royal Triple Jig

---

05 Sep 20 - 05:09 AM (#4070818)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Gordon Jackson

The two tunes are clearly related. Either, one is derived from the other, or there was a common ancestor.

---

06 Sep 20 - 01:02 PM (#4070984)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Snuffy

That shouldn't have changed much since I posted the ABCs in July 2003!

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08 Sep 20 - 12:37 PM (#4071200)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Guest

Oooops!

Apologies for the duplication; your submission was more comprehensive too, Snuffy.

I was only trying to help.

I'll place myself on the naughty step and recite "I must read the whole thread" several times.

On second thoughts, I'll go to the Stool of Repentance ;0)

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08 Sep 20 - 02:09 PM (#4071208)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Snuffy

No need to apologise, Guest. I've done the same myself far too often. especially in long threads where it is far too easy to miss something while skimming. Nice to see that there continues to be interest in ABC notation.

---

08 Sep 20 - 06:29 PM (#4071238)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Charmion

I have been learning ABC to post tunes on The Session. It maketh my brain to bleed, yea verily.

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14 Oct 23 - 06:18 PM (#4183664)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Re-reading this thread I now see that these two tunes have been matched by previous posts here, however...

...I don't usually watch it but yesterday I watched the Last Night of the Proms and thought, I know that tune!!

The Saucy Arethusa

I then thought that it is an O'Carolan tune but having heard over 220 of his tunes over the years I had to do a bit of research to find that it is the tune of:

The Princess Royal played beautifully by Ma´ire Ni´ Chathasaigh & Chris Newman

I also have to admit to an error I make, quite often, by referring to the tune as "Miss MacDermott Roe" instead of "Miss MacDermott". I do it in conversations too, but the reason is that there are eight other O'Carolan tunes with the name "MacDermott Roe" in the titles so I tend to forget that this tune is "Miss MacDermott" (also known as "The Princess Royal").

So, sorry for repeating previous information but it was an ah-ha moment for me yesterday.

BTW, it is one of my favourite O'Carolan tunes, and P.S. just between you and me, I don't really relate to the Morris version(s). Sorry! I like the original way better.

---

14 Oct 23 - 06:18 PM (#4187330)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Re-reading this thread I now see that these two tunes have been matched by previous posts here, however...

...I don't usually watch it but yesterday I watched the Last Night of the Proms and thought, I know that tune!!

The Saucy Arethusa

I then thought that it is an O'Carolan tune but having heard over 220 of his tunes over the years I had to do a bit of research to find that it is the tune of:

The Princess Royal played beautifully by Ma´ire Ni´ Chathasaigh & Chris Newman

I also have to admit to an error I make, quite often, by referring to the tune as "Miss MacDermott Roe" instead of "Miss MacDermott". I do it in conversations too, but the reason is that there are eight other O'Carolan tunes with the name "MacDermott Roe" in the titles so I tend to forget that this tune is "Miss MacDermott" (also known as "The Princess Royal").

So, sorry for repeating previous information but it was an ah-ha moment for me yesterday.

BTW, it is one of my favourite O'Carolan tunes, and P.S. just between you and me, I don't really relate to the Morris version(s). Sorry! I like the original way better.

---

18 Oct 23 - 07:29 AM (#4187333)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: clueless don

Thought I would mention that the "Irish version" of the tune bears at least some resemblance to another Irish set dance, Rodney's Glory

Don

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18 Oct 23 - 07:29 AM (#4183903)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: clueless don

Thought I would mention that the "Irish version" of the tune bears at least some resemblance to another Irish set dance, Rodney's Glory

Don

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18 Oct 23 - 04:02 PM (#4183933)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Thanks for the Rodney's Glory link. I haven't heard it before. One of my music friends recommended this tune for our session group:

The Nomad performed by Killarney

Another member of our session said it is almost the same as The Princess Royal.

---

18 Oct 23 - 04:02 PM (#4187331)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Thanks for the Rodney's Glory link. I haven't heard it before. One of my music friends recommended this tune for our session group:

The Nomad performed by Killarney

Another member of our session said it is almost the same as The Princess Royal.

---

18 Oct 23 - 05:57 PM (#4187327)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

Can't believe no one's mentioned the Old Songs Podcast episode about Princess Royal, where Squeezy goes very in depth into the history of the tune, the variations and how he learned it: https://theoldsongspodcast.buzzsprout.com/1094882/12136416-the-old-songs-podcast-se2ep8-princess-royal-ft-john-spiers

---

18 Oct 23 - 05:57 PM (#4183942)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

Can't believe no one's mentioned the Old Songs Podcast episode about Princess Royal, where Squeezy goes very in depth into the history of the tune, the variations and how he learned it: https://theoldsongspodcast.buzzsprout.com/1094882/12136416-the-old-songs-podcast-se2ep8-princess-royal-ft-john-spiers

---

19 Oct 23 - 01:15 PM (#4184000)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Admiral Rodney

Rodneys glory is played swung,"O'Carolan's Concerto"   is not.
Rodney's Glory has 20 bars
"O'Carolan's Concerto".has 32 bars

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19 Oct 23 - 01:15 PM (#4187328)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST,Admiral Rodney

Rodneys glory is played swung,"O'Carolan's Concerto"   is not.
Rodney's Glory has 20 bars
"O'Carolan's Concerto".has 32 bars

---

19 Oct 23 - 01:55 PM (#4187332)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Interesting observation, GUEST,Admiral Rodney, but it's The Princess Royal, not O'Carolan's Concerto.

---

19 Oct 23 - 01:55 PM (#4184006)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: Helen

Interesting observation, GUEST,Admiral Rodney, but it's The Princess Royal, not O'Carolan's Concerto.

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19 Oct 23 - 02:02 PM (#4184010)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

Was Admiral Rodney formerly known as Captain Birdseye?

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19 Oct 23 - 02:02 PM (#4187329)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Princess Royal
From: GUEST

Was Admiral Rodney formerly known as Captain Birdseye?

---