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05 Aug 03 - 11:24 AM (#997135) Subject: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner Hello All, I recently was asked by a client about a guitar that would accommodate his missing ring and little finger on his chording hand. He'd been through the "Learn to play Lefty" stages and "Play Bottle Neck" stages so when I suggested a tenor guitar with some open tunings he was and he wasn't enthused. I them pointed out the Django stories and played him some Gypsy Jazz which thrilled him but at 50+ with arthritis looking at what is left of his hand he doesn't expect to be buying a Selmer guitar anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a tuning that minimizes finger postions? What he has is quite mobile and useable, he just can't hit too many strings. His reach is limited as well. I covered a lot of this ground myself due to my own inhury but I'm hoping someone else may have a diferent direction I haven't yet pursued. Thanks. Don |
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05 Aug 03 - 11:32 AM (#997144) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: mooman Dear Don, A tuning like DADGAD lends itself to a lot of two-finger chords and there are innumerable ways of creating the same chords in different positions and inversions as well as some useful sliding shapes. My own chords shapes are rather different to three other DADGAD players I know well. I play in DADGAD exclusively on steel acoustic (although I use normal and other tunings on electric and classical). There may well be a better alternative open tuning that someone can recommend. Best regards, moo |
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05 Aug 03 - 11:34 AM (#997146) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: mooman P.S. I'm doing a fair amount of bluesy and jazzy stuff in DADGAD as well as the more usual folk and "Celtic". moo |
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05 Aug 03 - 12:41 PM (#997207) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: GUEST,cittern There is a family of similar tunings "near" to DADGAD, including Open D (DADF#AD), Open Dminor and (I think) an open G. Would have to look these up once away from my desk, but the point is if the fingerings are possible he could get quite a lot of variety in sounds by only retuning one or two strings away from DADGAD. Hope this helps. Best regards John Robinson http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk |
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05 Aug 03 - 01:24 PM (#997241) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: John Hardly The open tuning suggestion is great. I might add that there are solutions out there for standard that I think are more doable than one might at first think. First, I think leads are most adaptble -- chording appears less so. But consider: 1. Ten chords are every major chord representd by two fingers and a thumb G - 3X34XX. It goes all the way up the neck. If you add the IV chord thus (relative to G) 3X23XX and the V chord at two frets higher, you have a progression. 2. Rhythm not only needs only three notes -- it's actually a SUPERIOR way to play rhythm. 3. I play my Em with one finger (it holds down the A and D strings at the same time). 4.I play my Am and with two fingers -- one holds down the D and G strings while the other holds down the B string (obviously the same fingering goes for the E chord). 5. The A chord can be one-fingered and if it can -- any chord and it's variations can be doe so further up the neck -- sus, add2, etc. 6. The D chord can be two fingered it's G can as well. 7. Gibson and Guild necks can be very two finger friendly -- they are narrow string spacing and you can probably hold two strings with one finger very easily. 8. Short scale guitars like guild's F30 and Gibson's J45 and LG guitars would be more two-finger friendly because their fret spacing is closer. He might even find that if he capoes up and tunes down he will get a more doable string spacing and fret spacing. 9. learn to angle your thumb more parallel to the neck and it will allow for a greater movement of fingers up the neck. The more I think about it, I can probably play just about any major chord first position with only two fingers (and a thumb) -- the C is a stretch but if I make it a 5 chord (muting the D string) I bet even it's doable) Just some random thoughts. Hope they help. |
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05 Aug 03 - 03:00 PM (#997315) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner Thanks gang, this is all very encouraging. Don |
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05 Aug 03 - 04:05 PM (#997363) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DADGBE Hi Don, Some years ago I was teaching guitar at Alisdair Fraser's Valley of the Moon Fiddle School and developed a Celtic accompaniment technique based on the tuning DADGBE (notice my sign-in name). It's main feature is that it uses index and middle fingers almost exclusively. Let me know if you want more details. Best regards, Ray Frank |
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05 Aug 03 - 04:21 PM (#997373) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner Hi Ray, You bet I am. I would appreciate it and so would my friend Steve. Send it here to the Cat or to my email dmeixner@twcny.rr.com. And thanks. Don |
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05 Aug 03 - 06:01 PM (#997440) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: GUEST,Pete Peterson Not to change the parameters too much, but would he conssider learning banjo? In G tu7ning it's tuned to an open chord and can be played with only two fingers, as I demonstrated for a couple weeks once with two fingers in a splint. |
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05 Aug 03 - 06:08 PM (#997443) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner Hi Pete, Banjo is where I went with my injury so I have pushed that towards my friend. He would like to stick with guitar if at all possible. While I still play guitar I am not the axeman I once was. But I also already played banjo. Steve will have to start from scratch on which ever direction he goes. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't have more than a passing interest in how this thread develops. Don |
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05 Aug 03 - 07:26 PM (#997494) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: John Hardly How well did he play before the injury? If he was already pretty competent I'd have to think that he may be frustrated for a while but in very short order would be pretty competent again. I've thought about this most of the day and even duct taped my other two fingers to see if it wasn't so. We get so used to alternate fingerings as we play that we don't even think about them. Think about it.... Without picking up your guitar can you remember how you finger a particualar G chord in a particular song (as Fielding suggests, or with your middle finiger on the low E)? I know I rarely think about it -- I just compensate. With my fingers duct taped I just reflexively muted or didn't play strings I knew (again reflexively) that I didn't have covered. Try it (the duct tape test)and I bet you'll find the same to be true. You are so used to fingering in alternative ways that you'll probably be able to play almost anything you aready do -- at least in first position. |
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05 Aug 03 - 11:43 PM (#997631) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner John, Steve was a pretty good rhythym guitarist. He moved about the neck pretty good. Played the odd diminshed stuff. I'd say he was profficient. That is a good idea for disability awareness, taping up your fingers, and it may work for some disabilities involving fingers. But saddly when parts of your body are removed the entire system goes out of balance. Imagine a sailboat that suddenly has lost a few stays. The entire rig will un balance. That is much the same as what happened to Steve. Hold your ring and small finger to the palm of your hand and then try and straighten your remaining didgits. See how dificult that is? This isn't to demonstrate how you can move if you lose fingers but rather to show the interdependance within the structure of your hand. In my case the fingers were reconstructed and one was re-attached. Built up scar tissue is my biggest problem now. I have overcome the lack of a sense of touch but permanently bent fingers that neither open all the way or close all the way are what I work with. Steve on the other hand, so to speak, lost his fingers in a log spliter. The stuff that is left is totally realigned. Frustrated doesn't begin to cover what Steve is going through, I know too well. I was lucky if you can call it that. Steve wasn't. What he needs now is some successes. And that is what you and Pete and Moo and Dadgbe and cittern are supplying whether you realize it or no. These are great ideas. Let me know what else comes to mind no matter how basic or off the wall it may seem. Don |
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06 Aug 03 - 12:01 AM (#997643) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Bert A couple of suggestions - a Hurdy Gurdy or a chord box. I know that these are dreadful machines but at least they might serve to put the other options into perspective. |
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06 Aug 03 - 07:25 AM (#997801) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: John Hardly Hey Don, My wife tells me that my last post came across insensitive(ly?). I just got too wordy -- all I meant was that so much of what we learn on guitar is mental --- and I was sorta thinking out loud if more of that than we think wouldn't still be usable. My wife says she understands that when things get mangled -- maybe the same connections between mind and muscle aren't there. Anyway, I didn't mean to sound insensitive. Your friend is going through my worst nightmanre. The other reason I'm posting is that I have a freind who is a good potter and also a terrific guitar player. A few years back he went through the same thing and is now about 4-5 years down the road from the accident and progressing very well musically. I've asked his permission to put you in email contact with him. If he gives me the OK I'll PM you as soon as I know. John |
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06 Aug 03 - 07:52 AM (#997819) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner John I didnt take it as insensitive. And I appreciate the continued concern. Don |
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06 Aug 03 - 08:10 AM (#997826) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: mooman Besides the open tuning suggestions and others given above, its not always necessary to use all strings for a good effect. The site below gives a selection of slidable "power chords" in standard tuning that can be fretted with two fingers which could be a good way for Steve to start and build up dexterity and finger strength following his injury. This could be followed or accompanied by a foray into other tunings. I could PM some two-finger DADGAD shaps also if needed. Some two finger power chords All the best, moo |
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06 Aug 03 - 05:53 PM (#998180) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: katlaughing What about trying slide guitar, Don? I know it's not the same, but I love the sound and it seems to me it'd be something he could get very "tuneful" with? (I was gonna say lap dulcimer, but figured the guitar would be more *acceptable.:-) |
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06 Aug 03 - 06:48 PM (#998210) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: GUEST,Pete Peterson having reviewed the thread, I think the most useful (WITHOUT changing input parameters) are 2-finger power chords as per Mooman (my fiancee, a former rock guitarist, says she has to consciously try NOT to use them some times) and the slide guitar idea. Could he handle a slide or do the fingers not close well enough to manipulate the slide? Please let us know how this works out-- people determined to be musical WILL be musical and find a way to comunicate! |
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06 Aug 03 - 06:53 PM (#998214) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: CraigS This is completely off the wall, but sometimes, just for the hell of it I play my guitar across my lap and chord with just my first two fingers, usually because I've been using a steel slide in a normal tuning. I can get by in E,D and G, and the significant difference in playing this "lap-dulcimer" style guitar is that it reverses the two fingers, ie it puts the second finger nearest the nut, so the more versatile index fingertip can bend backwards to form the chords. It might be worth a try. |
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06 Aug 03 - 10:21 PM (#998290) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner Hey Moo, thanks for the link. I like the power chord notion too and I will pass all this onto STeve when I see him on Sunday. Thanks all. Don |
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07 Aug 03 - 02:55 PM (#998497) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Raedwulf Don, Had a quick try of the 'wrap the fingers into the palm' comment. I doubt it's a very accurate parallel of the misfortune your friend is going through, but my remaining fingers seemed to work OK. OTOH, I've had classical training, so *all* of my fingers are pretty nimble. It's possible with persistence, but sure, it's limiting. From the Tech side, go with the power chords for a start. If he doesn't already know his theory, *study*!! Nothing better than working out your own solutions. There are different ways of building chords, different ways of tuning. Plus if he plays & sings, his voice ought to be able to often complete the triad (although it might mean bending a few famous melodies, but Hell! Jazz does that sort of thing all the time... ;) ). From the mental side, I'll offer two views that may offer Steve something worth thinking about. First, I vaguely remember an episode of M*A*S*H* in which one casualty had one hand &/or part of his arm amputated. All the dcotors were "Hey! You're going home!". The casualty was "Why did you keep me alive, I've nothing to live for..." He was a classical pianist - you need two hands for that. The otherwise usually unlovable Mjr Charles Winchester III (classical fan) went off & found piano pieces written for one handed players, stood over him, & made him him play them. And the patient found a reason to live. The moral being that even without the full equipment, you can still make good music. Second, Black Sabbath may be an odd band to mention on Mudcat, but before or ere they were famous, Tony Iommi (the guitarist) chopped off the tips of two of his fingers (IIRC, ring & little) in an accident when he was a sheet-metal worker. After that he played with plastic fingertips, & believe me, he was still a shit-hot guitarist for his time! Steve will never play guitar like he used to, but he can still make good music & the world will poorer if he doesn't. Don't let him forget this (& let him know he'll be letting the whole of Mudcat down if he gives up! ;) ). Hope this is of some help. Rædwulf P.S. Having mentioned Mjr Winchester, this quote seems quite appropriate... "Know this. You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer." - Charles Emerson Winchester III Adapt. Survive. PLAY!! |
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07 Aug 03 - 03:34 PM (#998522) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Tyke Just a thought even if the DADGAD idea is the simplest it would also mean that if a G tuning was used the same cords patterns played steps up and down make it a two Tuning can be developed in one. That said I have a friend who is a Vet! He is also Left Handed however he plays Guitar with his Right Hand. He decided to do this very early on. The ability to use both hand equally has got to be a bonus. Especially when he as a Veterinary Surgeon is in the operating theatre. So perhaps looking at the big picture could help in allsorts of ways. Whichever method is chosen I hope all goes well and I wish you great success. |
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07 Aug 03 - 05:50 PM (#998583) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: CraigS There was a German concert pianist who lost his right arm in WWI. He was rich enough to be able to avoid working, so he worked on playing the piano one-handed for several years. He made a come-back, and commissioned pieces from famous composers for the left hand only, some of which are v. hard. There was a BBC4 radio program about him last year. |
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07 Aug 03 - 06:00 PM (#998588) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Wesley S Off the subject and back to the banjo - If you have a chance you might be interested in listening to the banjo player with the bluegrass group "Mountain Heart". I'm a big fan of the mandolin player Adam Steffey. When I saw them on the Grand Old Opery I was amazed to see that the banjo player appeared to only have a thumb and first finger on his left hand. He plays over the top of the neck like a dobro player. Listening to the CD you would never know that he was missing any fingers. Another thought. I would think that the Richie Havens video on Homespun tapes might have some interesting ideas and concepts that your friend might get some use out of. Havens is no slouch on rhythm. |
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08 Aug 03 - 08:47 AM (#998911) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: GUEST,Raedwulf Craig - I did a quick Google - I reckon you're referring to Paul Wittgenstein. There some brief information & photo's here. Paul Wittgenstein (1887-1961) had several works written for him, including one by Richard Strauss and one by Benjamin Britten. The Concerto for Left Hand was written by Ravel for him, and is very often played nowadays by two-armed pianists. He was also the brother of philosopher Ludwig W. I reckon that it must have been some of the stuff that was written for him that Winchester went off & found. Just goes to show what you can achieve despite everything! |
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08 Aug 03 - 07:09 PM (#999168) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: CraigS I seem to remember that he didn't like the Ravel piece, and while he paid for it, he never played it in public! |
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10 Aug 03 - 02:28 AM (#999566) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: katlaughing Don, I thought of this thread while watching a bluegrass special on PBS tonight. They featured the band, Mountain Heart. Their banjo player does a hell of a good job of picking. He apparently has a birth defect (I don't like that term, but not sure what else to call it.) It looks as though he was born with a thumb and a tiny bit of one finger on his left hand and that's about it, but you sure wouldn't know it to hear him pick. He uses his thumb and that one shortened finger across the top of the neck of his banjo instead of coming up from around the bottom. At first it looked as though he was using a slide like a steel guitar, then they showed a closer view. I don't know enough to know how he had it tuned or anything, but the stuff he got out of the banjo was pretty incredible. kat |
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10 Aug 03 - 09:43 AM (#999642) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: DonMeixner I once say a banjo play who played with just his wrist, no hand. The will and desire to play is potent and everlasting I think. A little thread creep now. Kat, Developmental Disability is more correct. As a person in the disability biz I hear every possible name for every possible disability. And the people who use mu services are called by every name that defines them. Client , consumer, participant, I started with client and that is where I tend to default. Consumer sounds like someone who uses wuth out contributing and participant sounds to distant and uninvolved. I am likely to give these folks no appellation and just refer to them as people. The disabilities naming issue is always an, well, issue. I know people who are users of my services who hate the word disabled. These folks arein your face advocates, often vets or traumatically disable. They say it sounds temporary. They prefer crippled. There is no question about their abilities. One person who was spaeking at a conference I attended told his introducer/announcer if she ever described him as Differentially Abled again he'd figure away to strangle her with his O2 hose. Thats a real hot button issue. I think we've beat this horse in other threads. Don |
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10 Aug 03 - 10:06 AM (#999648) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: katlaughing Thanks for the explanation, Don. I've heard others get really hot about the disability bit. I don't consider it a disability to need O2 for now, but since I don't use any services I've not had to deal with it too much. I think you're right, we have hashed this out before, I just couldn't think clearly last night.:-) Thanks, again, kat |
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16 Nov 08 - 11:16 AM (#2495132) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Twelvestrum I just posted a response at the end of the 'Playing guitar with arthritis' thread. My problem is nerve damage in my left hand ring finger, but my solution is to start moving towards using DADGAD. The fact that I'm a longtime Davy Graham fan and prefer folk and Celtic styles of playing should also help. |
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16 Nov 08 - 11:24 AM (#2495141) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: RTim My wife went to a Memorial service for an old lady friend yesterday - and her father was a One Armed Man who played the fiddle!! Tim Radford |
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16 Nov 08 - 04:53 PM (#2495373) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: The Sandman twelve strum,you might also try dadgbd, you can get a lot of the same effects,but your middle fourstrings are still like standard. |
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16 Nov 08 - 07:03 PM (#2495458) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Peace Don, I assume he has use of his thumb on the hand with two fingers? |
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17 Nov 08 - 02:55 PM (#2496035) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: PoppaGator Bruce, the first sentence of the first post says: "I recently was asked by a client about a guitar that would accommodate his missing ring and little finger on his chording hand." So, he's got a thumb plus two more fingers, index and middle. Dind't Django Rhinehart have a couple of left-hand fingers cut off, or maybe cut short? He was, of coure, an exceptional guitarist, and I believe he even played in standard tuning. Not that we could, or should, expect anyone be another Django... Jerry Garcia lost a finger when he was young, but that was on his right hand ~ not nearly as big an issue. |
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17 Nov 08 - 07:06 PM (#2496239) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Jeremiah McCaw Very interesting thread. I used to play conventional 6-string, but over the years severe arthritis took that away. I'm now quite happily playing bass guitar, but to be able to manage a 'regular' guitar would be a delight. DADGAD & open tunings in general seem like possibilities. What about a tenor guitar (4-string)? They were quite popular at one time and can still be found. Maybe a variation of open tuning with such a wee beastie? If 3 or 4 chords could be managed; add a capo and many possibilities might present themselves. I think I've just talked myself into doing some more exploring! |
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17 Nov 08 - 07:38 PM (#2496263) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Bobert Hey ya'll, don't get bogged down exclusively with DADGAD... Any open tuning, for which there are more than one might possibly think, will work fine... Heck, I play some that you won't find in any open tuning books but like who cares... They sound good... The main thing is that two fingers is a'plenty... One might be difficult but two will do just fine... B~ |
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18 Nov 08 - 10:46 PM (#2497337) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Uncle Phil Hmm, fretting with two fingers in standard tuning isn't too hard if you mute and omit a few strings -- G = 3 x 0 0 0 3 B = x x 4 4 3 x (cover two strings at fret 4 with one finger) C = 0 x 5 5 5 0 A = 0 0 2 2 2 0 D = x 0 0 2 3 x (G)Puff the Magic(B)Dragon(C)lived by the(G)sea, And(C)frolicked in the(G)autumn mist in a(A)land called Hona(D)lee… Not ideal, but serviceable. How about one finger? A thread on Jimmy Driftwood's "Long Chain On" has been sharing the page with this thread. Instead of Em and Am play 1-5 two note power chords, neither major or minor – E = 0 2 2 x 0 0 (cover two strings with one finger) A = 0 0 2 2 x 0 (E)Last night as I(A)lay on my(E)pillow, (A)Moonlight as bright as the(E) dawn… Maybe dress up the chorus by changing to E = 0 14 14 x 0 0 A = 0 0 14 14 x 0 Lean on the bass E a bit and its sounds pretty cool. - Phil |
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19 Nov 08 - 02:16 AM (#2497396) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: GUEST,Abdul the Bul Bul on his laptop Well most of my 'chords' are two fingered, 3 helps with picking melody but not essemtial and I only use open G now; DGDGBD. You can play all the way up the neck with runs, slides etc all with two fingers. And open G is sooooo sweet a sound. Al |
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19 Nov 08 - 09:42 PM (#2498142) Subject: RE: Tech: Two-Finger chords for Amputee From: Jeremiah McCaw Well, this is getting more interesting all the time. Turns out I had a gif of some 2-finger chords in my files from gawd-knows-where-or-when. They're for a 4-string instrument, and a bit of investigation showed the tuning would have to be G-D-A-E (low to high) - same as a fiddle or mandolin. I tried with a really terrible old tenor banjo that friend had. It'll take some work to get smooth & clean, but yeah, it works! Like I said, 4 or 5 chords and a capo, and you're away. Hope you're still checking this thread, Don. Sorry, but I don't know how to put a graphic in these posts. If anyone wants a copy of the file, send me an email to jeremiahATjeremiah.ca. (The 'AT is to hopefully foil 'phishing' programs - just change it to the symbol, or click the link itself.) |