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06 Aug 03 - 11:07 PM (#998307) Subject: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: michaelr Yeah, you're damn right I'm being facetious. What's more, I'm furious with Bush the Lesser, and you should be, too. Check this out: "On March 31, the Bush administration proposed changing the current rules that guarantee that workers must be paid time-and-a-half when they work for more than 40 hours a week. If Resident Bush has his way, as many as eight million Americans - including fire fighters, police officers, paramedics, nurses, and store supervisors - will be denied the pay their families count on to put food on the table or save for college and a home. The paychecks of millions of workers are at stake." This isn't about Republicans vs. Democrats anymore. This is worse than stealing the election, worse than the tax giveaway to his rich cronies, worse than the heaps of lies about Iraq. This fucks over working Americans of all stripes. The bastard (who has never, ever worked an honest day in his life) has the unmitigated gall to call himself compassionate?! You can read and sign John Kerry's petition against this abomination here. Please do. "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." Cheers, Michael |
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06 Aug 03 - 11:34 PM (#998315) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: mack/misophist Like all good liberals, I thought Reagan was the anti-christ. The signs were all there. I was wrong. He's here now. |
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07 Aug 03 - 12:02 AM (#998327) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Bill D *tsk* Don't worry, it's all just part of the tax cut plan! If you earn less money, you'll pay less taxes! See? They really are trying to 'help' you.... |
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07 Aug 03 - 12:08 PM (#998366) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Greg F. But the fuckees still love him. Overwhelmingly. Whatta guy. Long as he keeps "cutting taxes", "shrinking government" and thumping "towelheads". The electorate is brain dead. Just give 'em more NASCAR, beer, & SUV's. No problem. [ AAaaghhh!! I'm starting to sound like Bobert!] Best, Greg |
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07 Aug 03 - 12:18 PM (#998377) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST Actually, the Bush plan is even worse than it looks on the surface. Not only is it an attempt to gut overtime time, but it is doing so at the same time it is trying to legislate mandatory overtime. So to keep your job, you must work the overtime, but not get paid an extra dime for over forty hours a week. Anyone care to comment on how the unions who brought you the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, health insurance, and pensions are totally obsolete because we already enjoy all those benefits? See the scab mentality grow like a fungus on our society of "don't give a shit, as long as I got mine" Limbaugh lovers. We love the benevolent corporate fathers...must go to Wal Mart... |
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07 Aug 03 - 12:50 PM (#998405) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Don Firth The polls keep saying that the vast majority of people think Georgie Boy can walk on water, but in my unofficial, unscientific face-to-face poll, I rarely meet anyone who doesn't think that Dubya is just about the worst thing that ever happened to this country. Where are all these people who think bushleague is so wonderful? Maybe things are different up here in the Soviet of Washington. . . . Don Firth |
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07 Aug 03 - 01:00 PM (#998418) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Kim C There are already a WHOLE bunch of people who aren't eligible for overtime at any price. They're called exempt employees. All of the management people in my office are exempt. This means that if they have to work 80 hours to get the job done, they work 80 hours, and tough shit. If they get anything in return it's comp time, but that's something left up to individual employers. Not every company recognizes that practice. I'm non-exempt. But it's also an extremely rare thing for me to work over 40 hours a week. Our work week is 37.5 hours - once in awhile if I work at a special event, I might work 41 or 42 hours in a week, but that's MAYBE once a year. How one decides that a certain position is "exempt" or "non-exempt," I'm not exactly sure. Maybe someone can enlighten me on that. Now, all that being said, of course people should be paid for the time they work, if that's the law. Does anyone have a link to the actual proposal? |
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07 Aug 03 - 01:17 PM (#998433) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: rangeroger Kim C, salaried employees are exempt. Hourly employees are non-exempt.There are some further breakdowns,but I can't remember them all. Some of it has to do with whether you fill out a time card or not. rr |
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07 Aug 03 - 01:24 PM (#998437) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST Also, exempt employees get more and better benefits than non-exempt, although they don't always get more pay. In a lot of businesses, the exempt employees are higher status, so they are easier to manipulate, because upper management always pits them against the non-exempt employees. In my experience working for over 30 years in both the public and private sectors at various times, many management drones are really gullible when it comes to their own wage slavery. They have so bought into the status thing of being management, that they remain in denial about the ways that upper managment (ie the CEO, CFO, etc) are screwing them over. Anyone else ever notice that? I mean, look at how many management drones passively watched their jobs get outsourced, their pensions evaporate, and their benefits get cut in the last decade, while the boom was still on in many places. |
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07 Aug 03 - 01:26 PM (#998438) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST,heric Well it is of course a "long story," but it seems they want to broaden the "exempt" classification: http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconomy/overtimepay/underattack.cfm |
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07 Aug 03 - 01:31 PM (#998445) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Ebbie Don't exempt employees serve at the 'pleasure of the governor'? In other words, when the administration changes, the exempt ones may be replaced by incoming appointments. I think that's how it works in Alaska. |
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07 Aug 03 - 01:39 PM (#998450) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: NicoleC Salary/hourly is a symptom, not the cause. MOST hourly employees are non-exempt and MOST salaried employees are. There are no die-hard rules, but in general in order for an employer to legally classify an employee as non-exempt they must a) supervise other employees and b) are required to make frequent decisions based upon their own judgement and experience. My company just recently reclassified most of us non-executive exempt workers as non-exempt because is was legally safer than not paying us overtime. So now I'm a salaried non-exempt employee, which means I get pay the same thing twice a month no matter how many work days were in the pay period (generally between 10-12), unless I clock overtime, for which I get paid time and a half based on my annual salary divided by work hours in the year (2080). Overtime in CA is defined by law as more than 8 hours in a day, instead of 40 hours per week. |
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07 Aug 03 - 02:41 PM (#998492) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Rapparee "My company just recently reclassified most of us non-executive exempt workers as non-exempt because is was legally safer than not paying us overtime." No, no, Nicole. (Sounds like a musical, doesn't it?) If they did that and you didn't fit the requirements (nicely stated in your post), your company would be in violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) and the Labor Dept could come down on them. Classifying, say, a receptionist as exempt wouldn't make the person exempt if the US Dept of Labor came a-snooping. The primary test is independent judgement and action: does the employee regularily, and as part of their job, exercise independent judgement and take action independently? I'm exempt. I also get 6 days of "Administrative Leave" each year in place of compensatory time off. Here's some information: "Exemptions Some employees are exempt from the overtime pay provisions or both the minimum wage and overtime pay provisions. Because exemptions are generally narrowly defined under FLSA, an employer should carefully check the exact terms and conditions for each. Detailed information is available from local Wage-Hour offices. Following are examples of exemptions which are illustrative, but not all-inclusive. These examples do not define the conditions for each exemption. Exemptions from Both Minimum Wage and Overtime Pay * Executive, administrative, and professional employees (including teachers and academic administrative personnel in elementary and secondary schools), outside sales employees, and employees in certain computer-related occupations (as defined in Department of Labor regulations); * Employees of certain seasonal amusement or recreational establishments, employees of certain small newspapers, seamen employed on foreign vessels, employees engaged in fishing operations, and employees engaged in newspaper delivery; * Farm workers employed by anyone who used no more than 500 "man-days" of farm labor in any calendar quarter of the preceding calendar year; * Casual babysitters and persons employed as companions to the elderly or infirm." There is more information here (where I got the quote above) or read the whole thing (and then some)here. None of this is simple, and I strongly urge anyone getting into it to contact their local DoL office for guidance (or to drop a dime if you think you've been wronged). I have had to get into this in the last couple or three years, and it can be a real can of worms! Of course, what will happen in the future or what a particular office will do, who knows? But this is the law right now. |
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07 Aug 03 - 02:59 PM (#998499) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: NicoleC Rapaire, We had a lot of employees like me, who were borderline cases. After questionaires and a lot of legal advice, the company chose to err on the side of paying overtime in the spirit of C.Y.A. Which all in all, was not a bad route to take; it's a good company to work for. They couldn't afford to pay me overtime, so now I get to go home on time... most days :) |
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07 Aug 03 - 06:29 PM (#998597) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Jim Dixon When I was hired in my previous job, I was given the choice of being exempt or non-exempt. (It was a very small company; when I started there were only 4 office employees, including the two owners and me, and a dozen or so factory workers, truck drivers, etc.) I chose non-exempt. It meant I had to punch the time clock, but I liked it that way. I figured it kept everybody honest. It meant, when times were busy, I could work overtime and get paid fairly for it, and when times were slow, I could come in late or go home early without feeling that I was cheating anyone. I took enough pride in my work, that when there was a lot of work to do, I wanted to put in the extra hours, since it meant our customers were getting better and more timely service. Some people wouldn't have liked the fluctuating pay, but it suited me just fine. Frankly, I wish everyone had to be on the clock. |
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07 Aug 03 - 07:02 PM (#998616) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Gareth " So join the Union whilst you may, Don't wait until yer dying day, For that may not be far away. Yer durty Blackleg ........" Gareth BTW - A Union subscription is a good insurance policy against "Employer risks" |
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07 Aug 03 - 09:43 PM (#998710) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Bobert Greg F: Now this is fir real. Five years ago the great commie'liberal rag, the Washington Post, rarely did a story on NASCAR. Sure they's print on page 8 of the sports page inn real small print the results of the NASCAR. No more! Seems like every danged day there's a feature story on NASCAR... And that ain't no lie.... The American people have now been sufficiently dumbed-the-heck-down to where watching cars go around in circles is entertainment! I'm not joking here! This is a sad commentary on the folks who step into ballot booths... Now, I have just spent the last 5 days with my wife and her sister and my right wing Rebublican very rich worthless brother in law in their mountain cabin in them mountains of western North Caroloina. Yeah, like this guy is one of them "compassionate consevatives" who is a complete bore with his monolouges of Bush crapola so I told the P-Vine on the way down that I wasn't gonna put up with 5 days of hearing just how friggin' wonderful it is to be a compassionate conservative and so I laid into him the 1st night and din't let up. I started by asking him just where's is the "compassion" in CEO's being paid mega bucks to steal jobs and dreams of the American worker. His response was to call me "communist"!!!! So I asked him why that made me a communist, and he went into a lengthy monologue which contained not one real, ahhhh, *thought*... Normal... The only thing that these folks arec ompassionate about is stealing labor from the average Amercian worker. Then they say stupid stuff like, "You don't want the government in your pocket!" playing into the anti-governemnt sentimnets that they have so carefully crafted over the years with one anti-government, anti-big spenders, anti-liberal themes that have one common theme: *hate*!!!! And so now whenever thay need to get someone elected, the ground work is there and all they gotta do is whip up some anti-government stuff and... bingo... their bozo wins!!! We have become the "Brave New World" and most of the American voters are hnow firmly at the lower end of the Epsilon pool... America, as we know it, is... history!!! These folks sittin' around watching cars go around in circles can not be brought back, nor can America, until Boss Hog, in his greed starts starving the Epsilons out, which Boss Hog is stupid enough to do... End of rant.. Commie Bobert |
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07 Aug 03 - 10:12 PM (#998725) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Amergin what i find sad...is that I do not see the unions doing anything if this passes. |
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07 Aug 03 - 10:49 PM (#998739) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Bobert Unions are dead! Yeah, maybe the death certificates haven't arrived yet, but they are dead!!! The have been completely busted by Boss Hog and Resident Bush's assasination of American democracy... Bobert |
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08 Aug 03 - 04:24 AM (#998826) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Teribus You can't have it both ways - anybody's routinely worked overtime is someone else's job. Where I work (country, not company) everyone is restricted to working 1760 hours per year, overtime can be worked but is generally frowned upon by the country's department of labour. Regarding overtime worked, it is compulsory for individual employers to offer overtime rates, which are highly taxed, or, they must offer you paid time off in lieu, which is taxed at the normal rate. Most people go for the latter. |
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08 Aug 03 - 08:41 AM (#998903) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST Well, you are right Teribus. Perpetual mandatory overtime DOES take someone else's job. That's the strategy American business is using nowadays. That way, they pay less benefits to fewer workers. Problem is, it is American business' greed that has now driven the society to madness. Literal madness. Hostility everywhere you look, neglected kids who haven't been raised by their parents, but by a decrepit, inadequate child care system. People who are desperate because they are sick, tired, overworked, stressed by daily living. And those are the people with good jobs. |
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08 Aug 03 - 10:50 AM (#998970) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Bobert What we have here in the US, T, is either overworked and underpaid workers or unemployed. Boss Hog is squarely in the driver's seat nad has his heal on the necks of the working class. This is where he's wanted to be since the New Deal some 60 plus years ago. He got a real scare in the 60's that he wasn't working hard enough to return us all back to his provebial cotton fields so he has busted his butt in making sure that everyone understands just who is the boss!!! Yeah, as American jobs are exported to India, Pakistan, etc., those who still have jobs fully understand that they will have to do whatever Boss Hog asks or they, too, can stand in the unemployment lines. The standard of living for working America is in a tail spin while times have never been better for Boos Hog and his boys!!! Problem is that this situation can only lead to Boss Hog's demise, just like it did in "Animal Farm". Greed cannot win. There will come a point where too many Americans will be without jobs and the forclousures, bankrupcties, murders, suicides and lawlessness that will resuly will consume Boss Hog's little experiement in hog-ery... Stupid people. Very stupid people. Bobert |
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08 Aug 03 - 12:37 PM (#999003) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Greg F. Yo, Bobert, ya old Commie, you- Hey! I was AGREEING with you!!! :>) Old Karl Marx did get SOME things right: "False class consciousness" for one. Best, Greg |
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08 Aug 03 - 04:14 PM (#999095) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST Dem prez candidate Kerry has info on this subject, and an online petition you can sign here: http://petition.johnkerry.com/overtime/ |
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08 Aug 03 - 06:42 PM (#999157) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Bobert Well, I signed the danged thing but I ain't seein' me votin' fir John Kerry, no matter how bad America neeeds to get Bush in the rear view mirror... of course unless it is a brokered vote, thank you... Yo, Comrad Greg: I know we're in agreement on this one. Bobert |
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08 Aug 03 - 07:16 PM (#999172) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Gareth Hey Bobert - Hold yer nose and vote !!!! For evil to triumph requires no action on the part of men of good will Gareth |
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08 Aug 03 - 07:19 PM (#999176) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: michaelr Bobert, if Kerry gets the Democratic nomination -- and he's got a good chance -- I sincerely hope you will vote for him. I wouldn't have said this in 2000, but this time around we CANNOT afford to dilute the vote with third-party or independent candidates. Sure, I'd rather see Kucinich, but he's unelectable. Cheers, Michael |
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08 Aug 03 - 07:25 PM (#999183) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST Actually, Kucinich isn't the least bit "unelectable". He was elected to the US Congress by the citizens of the state of Ohio. Last time I checked, being elected as US Congressman fit the definition of "electable". |
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08 Aug 03 - 08:05 PM (#999199) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: michaelr The Dems would never nominate Kucinich, because they know Middle America considers him a radical and would not make him President. (Like you couldn't figure out what I meant.) |
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08 Aug 03 - 08:43 PM (#999214) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: GUEST I know what you meant michaelr. I just disagreed with your opinion about the electability of Kucinich. I'm born, raised, and live in the Midwest, and believe me, there are plenty of progressives in the Midwestern tradition, and moderate Dems who will support the progressives to win, if they feel the progressives have the momentum coming out of the primaries and going into the convention. It's happened before, you know. If the conservative Democrats insist on having it their way, and split the party like they did in 1972 when they betrayed the progessive wing of the party to destroy McGovern (and we all know how well it turned out with THAT Republican president getting re-elected), we may as well vote for the Green candidate, don't you think? To paraphrase Truman, when given the opportunity to vote for a Republican, or Republicrat, the American voter will choose the real thing every time. With all the money being raised now to fight Bush, and it is pretty substantial, money likely won't be a determining factor in 2004. The issues, ideologies, and integrity of the candidates, however, along with the direction of the Democratic party and the nation, will be. That is my fearless prediction, anyway. |
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08 Aug 03 - 09:20 PM (#999226) Subject: RE: BS: Compassionate Conservatism at work From: Bobert Well, I'd certainly vote for Dennis Kucinich without reservation. He represents what most Green Party folks think is the correct course for the country. No brokering here. He's really a Green in disguise, but as for Kerry? He's had ample opportunities in his career to step out from the crowd but didn't. I don't trust him much further than I can throw Bush Lite-er. The Dems have no chance unless they are able to stand up and say, "Yo, corporate CEO's. We don't want nor will accept a dime of your money. Give it to the drunk frat boy. We are the people's party. Screw you. We're taking back our country. Anything less will only insure another four year of Boss Hog's heal on the necks of the average American worker. Bobert |