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09 Aug 03 - 07:46 PM (#999485) Subject: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen Back in the 60's, when folk went boom, a lot of electric blues guitarists scrounged around in the back of their closests and found an old acoustic guitar and suddenly were playing "folk blues." Released from the stigma of being electric, they recorded albums of folk blues... Lightinin' Hopkins did it and so did John Lee Hooker. I've read that Doc Watson used to play electric guitar, but stopped doing it in public, once he was discovered as a folk artist. And of course, the black gospel quartets used electric guitar (and it was alright if they did at Newport, but not if Dylan did. Setting Dylan aside for a moment, it seems like there was a whole body of electric music that could rightfully be called "folk music" when it was discovered in the 50's and 60's. Blues and black gospel,certainly, but I even remember someone playing an electric banjo back in Wisconsin (he'd mounted an electric bulb socket in his banjo and had a red bulb in there that flashed off and on.) When I walk into a folk festival with an electric guitar and amp, I am often greeted with crumpled noses and smart remarks. When they realize I'm going to use it just to do black gospel, some folks are comfortable with that, but some think that traditional black gospel quartet music was somehow accompanied on a Martin D28.. So, the truth is out. I play electric guitar, and acoustic guitar and banjo. I wonder how many Mudcatters play electric guitar. Do you do anything that you consider "folk music" on electric guitar? Or is that an oxymoron... electric folk music? Just wondering.. Rockin' Razz |
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09 Aug 03 - 08:12 PM (#999495) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Bee-dubya-ell I play electric occasionally. I would play it more often if we had a bigger house. There's no way I can leave an amp plugged in in our little cabin without it being in the way. And pulling one out of the closet to play for a little while is a pain in the ass. And don't anybody make any suggestions about a small practice amp unless you're also going to send the money to buy one. My electric guitar repertoire is mostly blues and swing with a little rock thrown in but I'll occasionally play fiddle tunes on one just fer fun. I've only been playing around with electric for a few years, but it's really improved my barre chord playing. I think every serious guitarist should have one just to stretch out on every now and then, even if you never play it in public. Bruce |
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10 Aug 03 - 01:05 AM (#999559) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Benjamin An electric guitar can be used anywhere. Brownie McGhee played an electric guitar at times and used an electric pickup in his accoustic guitar. The key to how well an insturment can work is the musician who plays it. Michael Nicolella is a classical musician who plays on both a standard classical guitar and an electric guitar. While I prefer an accoustic insturment, thats just a personal preference. |
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10 Aug 03 - 03:07 AM (#999573) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Leadfingers I have had a semi-acoustic 333 copy as a spare guitar for more than twenty years ,though I dont take it to folk cubs,only on P A gigs in pubs and such.If lots of folkies took their electrics and amps to small clubs there wouldn't be room for people!!! |
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10 Aug 03 - 03:42 AM (#999579) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: melodeon king I have a wah-wah pedal - brilliant! |
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10 Aug 03 - 03:48 AM (#999580) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: John Robinson (aka Cittern) I have just borrowed an electric guitar to start the learning process. There is certainly a different technique compared to acoustic playing and I am looking forward to trying to make progress with it. At Stainsby Festival this year someone complained that there was no place for an electric guitar at a folk festival. I have to say I completely disagree! Best regards John Robinson http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk |
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10 Aug 03 - 04:04 AM (#999584) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: CraigS Hey, it wasn't just Dylan - Muddy Waters had the same experience, and came offstage saying words to the effect of "how'm I to know they want that ole guitar, that accoustic guitar". John Renbourn started out as an electric guitarist. John James plays an electric on some gigs. Mike Silver uses more effects pedals than the average rock band, and what John Martyn does with his echoplex defies classification. With an awful lot of folk song, the music predates almost all the instruments available. Fiddle, fife, drum, whistle, and bagpipes might be close to what was about three centuries ago, but they are not the same instruments, even so. Play what you like and let the audience judge with their feet ( put that trombone away, Leadfingers ) |
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10 Aug 03 - 05:12 AM (#999591) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: C-flat I've recently bought a Variax and I'm having a lot of fun with all the different sounds. Some of the accoustic guitar sounds are near perfect and the banjo sound has people looking around to see where it's coming from. I've always played electric and accoustic but, for small folk clubs, taking an amplifier seems like overkill so I usually just carry an accoustic. As the sole accompianist in your gospel singing group I should imagine having a small amount of amplification for your guitar would be neccessary and it's a lot easier to amplify an electric than an accoustic. I shouldn't worry about a few wrinkled-up noses unless you're seeing them AFTER the show! C-flat. |
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10 Aug 03 - 06:12 AM (#999600) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: John Robinson (aka Cittern) Ah - a VARIAX on mudcat! I heard Martin Allcock play one at Wombwell and I have to say it sounded very "cold". You sound pleased with it - would be interested in hearing more! Best regards John Robinson http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk |
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10 Aug 03 - 06:26 AM (#999603) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: mooman I mainly play acoustic these days, even in the guitar, bass, drums, vocals band we have, but also occasionally switch to a handmade Belgrado electric or semi-acoustic "no-name" archtop that I also have for some numbers. The acoustic always stays in DADGAD which is my "standard tuning" these days with the semi-acoustic in open G tuning and the electric in "normal". I don't have any hangups about what is "right" or "wrong" but tend to prefer acoustic for the feel, sound and dynamics. I would only ever take the acoustic to a session or folk club. Peace, moo |
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10 Aug 03 - 07:07 AM (#999613) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: C-flat To answer Johns' request for more about the Variax, each individual guitar sound needs tweeking to achieve the best tone for the room as with any amplified instrument, and similarly the Variax accoustic can sound clinical if the tone is not adjusted accordingly. I'm presently using mine mostly as a versatile electric guitar for quick switches between numbers in a covers band but have been able to drop in some credible accoustic guitar sounds without too much difficulty. The trick is to route the accoustic sounds through a dedicated accoustic amp (I use an AER Compact60) or straight into the PA and the electric sounds through a standard guitar amp. (The neccessary footswitch is supplied) It's a well made, comfortable instrument and Line6 are promising more downloadable additions in the future. Sorry for the drift Jerry, but I can't resist talking up my new toy! C-flat. |
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10 Aug 03 - 07:38 AM (#999620) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: kendall There are three inventions that the inventor should hang for. 1. Chewing gum 2. Electric guitars 3 Republicans. |
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10 Aug 03 - 08:08 AM (#999625) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen Some of my best friends are gum-chewing electric guitar playing republicans.. :-) Jerry :-) |
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10 Aug 03 - 08:10 AM (#999626) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen What about cell-phone talkin'. SUV drivin' keyboard blastin'folks, Kendall? :-) Jerry |
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10 Aug 03 - 10:48 AM (#999664) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Bee-dubya-ell In a nutshell, here's why I think an electric guitar can be a valuable learning tool for the primarilly acoustic guitarist: The electric guitar's weakest point is how lame open vanilla chords sound on it. That plain old G chord that sounds so nice on a D-28 sounds like crap on a Strat. The instrument demands that you use barre chords to get any kind of decent sound out of it. That forces you to learn or improve a skill that you may not have tackled on an acoustic. But when you pick the acoustic back up, that skill easilly transfers over to it. I never used the barre A chord shape until I started playing electric because I had never really needed it on acoustic. Now it's a indispensable part of my acoustic guitar playing. Bruce |
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10 Aug 03 - 11:04 AM (#999674) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Mark Clark My dad used to say “The road to hell is paved with good inventions.” I have had a few electric guitars. My first was an old National flattop with a De Armond pickup. Later, I picked up a Martin hollow body electric w/ Bixby tailpiece and a Fender Twin Reverb amp. My current setup is a Telecaster copy with a humbucker at the neck position and a Yamaha G50 amp. I've performed with the electric but not very much. Mostly I just noddle around at home on the odd blues or jazz tune. - Mark |
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10 Aug 03 - 12:54 PM (#999726) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: kendall Some of MY best friends are republicans, poor souls. |
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10 Aug 03 - 02:30 PM (#999777) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: C-flat Just been "chatting" with Jerry who was asking about my Variax and so for his and Johns interest here's a link to a previous thread with a great demonstration on a link provided by "Guest". |
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10 Aug 03 - 02:32 PM (#999778) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: C-flat That's the 5th post from the top. |
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10 Aug 03 - 08:37 PM (#999960) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Matt_R Aye. |
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10 Aug 03 - 10:01 PM (#1000016) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: GUEST,Lucius Ya, sure, youbetcha. I have led a life of debauchery as a Morris dancer. Now that I've repented, I play electric guitar for a kids sword team. Its a cute little Steinberger copy by Hohner (don't all morris musicians play Hohners?) that I plug into a battery powered Pignose amp. At one time, accordians were considered "too modern" for the Morris. Some of us prefer the morning. |
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11 Aug 03 - 02:48 PM (#1000371) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Sam L Bwl, I think that open string thing is mostly a fender problem. I play a little electric on an old fender jaguar, but I'd probably play more if I had an sg or something else. I'm comfortable with barre chords, but fenders are thin and stringy, and just don't strum nice. They whack and bite ang jangle, but I can't get the meshed strum sound I can get with a good gibson. It limits what I want to do with electric to singy line bits, and percussive picking. |
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11 Aug 03 - 03:42 PM (#1000410) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: kendall I used to be able to start a fight in an empty house. Guess I'm losing it. sigh. |
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11 Aug 03 - 05:15 PM (#1000456) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen Curmudgeons are loveable. Jerry |
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11 Aug 03 - 07:11 PM (#1000502) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: michaelr I play acoustic in my Celtic group and electric in my funk-jam band. Even a folkie just has to WAIL sometimes! And on the Celtic band's recordings, I've overdubbed some judicious electric guitar parts here and there. It's a matter of taste. My first guitar was a solidbody, and my second an acoustic, so I feel quite at home on both, even though they're different in feel. Cheers, Michael |
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11 Aug 03 - 09:40 PM (#1000585) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Bee-dubya-ell Fred - You're right that the open string problem is more pronounced on Fenders. But I also have a Yamaha ES-335 copy and while open chords sound better on it than on the Strat, they still sound pretty yucky compared to even a cheapy acoustic. Bruce |
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12 Aug 03 - 03:25 AM (#1000674) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Steve Parkes Well within living memory on my side of the pond (the right-hand side), there were plenty of traditional folk clubs that wouldn't let you in with an acoustic guitar, let alone an electric. Fair enough, there's not much of a singing tradition here except unaccompanied. Of course, the guitar's been around a long time; the accordian is only around 150 years old (yes, I know about the Chinese sheng), the piano about 200, the violin is about four hundred years old, and the whistle goes back forever. Most of the instruments in the orchestra have been developed way beyond what Beethoven woiuld have had, but few people see that as a problem. Steve |
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12 Aug 03 - 03:38 AM (#1000675) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: songs2play I use an Eko-friendly acoustic guitar, and a resonator if a bit more volume is required. No I didn't spell it wrong it's just that the guitar is an Eko - get it eco-friendly. Sorry |
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12 Aug 03 - 07:12 AM (#1000735) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: skarpi Halló all , I play electric guitar In country music but not folk music, I use Seagull duo in folk music. All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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12 Aug 03 - 07:25 AM (#1000740) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen My first electric guitar was a Fender that I bought back in 1955 or 56. At that time, I was far more interested in playing Duane Eddy or Carl Perkins than Perry Como or Julius La Rosa. (Or Burl Ives, for that matter.) Money being as scarce as it was, I always ended up trading in one guitar for another, and the Fender went for a Gibson which went for a small mahogany Martin, and down the line. As I heard more folk music, I switched to acoustic as my only guitar and perhaps never would have bought another electric guitar except for one reason. Sustain. To me, that's the single difference that caused me to buy an electric guitar again. Volume is important too, because when I started playing guitar on black gospel I couldn't hear it as soon as people started singing. I'd played Carter Family and southern white gospel all my life on acoustic guitar and banjo with no problem, but black gospel is so exuberant that I couldn't hear an acoustic guitar. I could have added a pick-up and still been "pure" because I'd just be playing an acoustic guitar electrically amplified, singing through a microphone that is electrically amplified. All acoustic, of course.. The real difference is in sustain.. an electric guitar can hold notes a lot longer, which you really need for a lot of black gospel... and jazz (which I love, but can't play.) Sustain makes a world of difference in blues, too. It's not necessary for country blues (which is the only blues I play,) but you'd never hear B.B.King on a Martin. If you did, you probably wouldn't want to hear him twice. String weight is very different too, and I find it a challenge to switch back and forth between electric and acoustic guitars. The action is higher on an acoustic (just like the action is usually set higher on a banjo for a claw hammer player than a bluegrass picker.) Those two qualities have a lot to do with the style of playing, because you can bend strings, sustain notes and get a fuller sound on an electric. I still love the sound of an acoustic guitar and play one almost exclusively on folk music. But, blues (even country blues) and black gospel sound far better on electric. Being a traditionalist, that's why I play electric guitar on blues and black gospel. Playing black gospel on a Martin would be blasphemous. And not honoring the tradition. We wouldn't want to do that, would we? Jerry |
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12 Aug 03 - 11:52 AM (#1000884) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Blues=Life I just returned from a week in California, and refused to travel without a guitar this time. (Last trip, bought a POS Chinese Acoustic and left it behind. This time I got smart. Found a used SKB molded case that fit my Telecaster perfectly, and had room for a tuner, a strap, a cord, and a Smokey Amp, which runs on a 9-volt battery and is as small as a pack of cigs. (Hence the name.) It all fit in the overhead compartment beautifully, and I wasn't really worried about hard knocks. I play my Tele as much as any other guitar I own. It's called the blues. Peace, Blues |
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12 Aug 03 - 05:02 PM (#1001036) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: UB Ed Yep. Gibson Les Paul and/or SG 61 reissue via a 15 watt Fender Tube amp mic'd through the board. |
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13 Aug 03 - 12:54 AM (#1001191) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: John P A friend of mine put a piezo pickup in an acoustic guitar, ran it through his effects boxes, and back into a large transducer screwed to the backside of the guitar soundboard. The large transducer vibrated the top of the guitar quite a lot. The result was distortion, chorus, reverb, and digital delay with the only "speaker" on stage being the guitar soundboard itself. No amp. It sounded pretty cool. One of my favorite combinations is an electric guitar and a hurdy-gurdy in harmony. Of course you can play folk music on an electric guitar. Play the music you find around you on whatever instrument comes to hand. It's traditional. John Peekstok |
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13 Aug 03 - 12:10 PM (#1001293) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Steve-o Zal Yanovsky of the Lovin' Spoonful once said, "There are three things that are great about an electric guitar- it's loud, it's loud, and it's loud!" Precisely why it ain't needed for folky music. |
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13 Aug 03 - 12:24 PM (#1001300) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: YOR One acoustic, two electrics, two amps and a head phone amp, but the acoustic gets used the most. Electrics are fun though. Enjoy, Roy |
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13 Aug 03 - 03:00 PM (#1001387) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: greg stephens Steve Parkes: were there really folk clubs that didnt let guitars in(even acoustic)? Where? |
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13 Aug 03 - 04:31 PM (#1001460) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Sam L Yeah you're right, BWL, some are just a little better at a mixed approach I guess. I can't go very long without wanting to do some acoustic-like sounds, feel a little cramped by my fender, usually. A little off the home court. Fred |
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14 Aug 03 - 08:58 AM (#1001839) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Frankham I have a 345 wired for stereo with a varitone switch. The neck is really nice. I think this is the B.B. King guitar however I have a"stop" bridge on it rather than the tailpiece. It has good sustain. I had thought of selling it but it cries out to be played in a certain way. It has a good blues feel and a kind of contemporary jazz feel, (not like the old 175's). I agree that it helps to play electric to stretch out the left hand. A good instrument is a pleaseure to play regardless of the style. Frank Hamilton |
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17 Aug 03 - 04:53 PM (#1003705) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Grab An exception to the "no-electric-guitar" rule might be electric guitars fitted with piezo pickups (notably Parker Fly, but modified bridges are available for Strat and Tele, and other instruments). Some woman at Cambridge last year was using a Parker Fly played finger-style, and you wouldn't have easily been able to tell (given the quality of sound from big PA systems) that it wasn't an twangy acoustic with good sustain. Steve-o, the electric guitar itself is "soft, soft, soft". The only thing that makes it loud is the amp/PA, which makes it inherently identical to any other guitar in a club with a PA, no? Graham. |
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17 Aug 03 - 06:02 PM (#1003727) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen You're right grab... my amplifier has a volume control on it.. Jerry |
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17 Aug 03 - 06:03 PM (#1003728) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen What is the major difference between an acoustic and an electric guitar? If you hear someone playing an electric guitar, and they're terrible, you can unplug them.. Jerry |
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17 Aug 03 - 06:55 PM (#1003754) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: CraigS There used to be a "traditional" club in the News House in Nottingham, about 1970-74, which wouldn't let floor singers use guitars, but they didn't stop Martin Carthy when they booked him. I use electric guitar with our blues band - I'd play an accoustic from choice, but the band nag me about "image". I've got the electrics lying about the house from when I was young, anyway, but I only play them for band gigs. You are better off practicing on an old accoustic with a relatively high action, because then you play better on the easy action of the electric. If you don't know how to get your sound from the gear you are using, you have to plug in at home to find it, but this can annoy the neighbours. I still rehearse with the band on an accoustic with a transducer, and do anything not involving a drummer on accoustic. Re: Fenders v Gibsons - it is easier to get a good sound out of a Gibson, but the good Fender sound is achieved by using the tone and volume controls - for a Strat, set the volume to around 6, turn the tone down to take the top off, muck about with the amp controls and find out why Eric Clapton and Gary Moore went back to the Strat after years with Gibsons. Fenders don't have to sound thin and jangly. That said, Mark Knopfler always drags out a Les Paul for "Money For Nothing", and that 345 mentioned above reminds me of a similar guitar I had use of 30 years ago - I've always wanted one. Billy Bragg has made a career while playing a Tele since he was 17. Leon Russell had to show Freddie King that he could sound good playing accoustic. Sleepy John Estes was famous for playing electric in his one-room shack with no electricity - he used to plug into the neighbour's house if he had visitors who wanted him to play. Don't ask about Charlie Jordan! Use what sounds good to you - people got feet to vote with! |
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18 Aug 03 - 07:34 AM (#1003931) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: GUEST,Mario Hello! I play bluegrass & old-time on my D-28, I play country and rock 'n'roll on my Telecaster... ...and sometimes bluegrass on Tele and rock 'n' roll on... mandolin! Keep on pickin' both electric and acoustic, if you play for the people is still folk music. Mario |
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18 Aug 03 - 08:16 AM (#1003949) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen This thread has been a delightful surprise! Perhaps I should have titled it "Out of the closet." The next thing you know, Knedall will cut his first rap album, and Art Thieme will join a hevy metal band,, :-) I still play traditional music on traditional instruments... folk and white gospel on acoustic guitar and banjo, and black gospel on electric guitar. Country blues on whatever is in my hands.. Jerry |
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18 Aug 03 - 09:26 AM (#1003998) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Roger the Skiffler Would that be the famous rapper, Evil Knedall, Jerry??? RtS (Smartass) |
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18 Aug 03 - 12:25 PM (#1004085) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Jerry Rasmussen LOL, Roger... my typo... but a good one... Many years ago, there was a country duo called the Kendalls... did such catchy songs as Heaven's Just A Sin Away. The old man retired, and moved to Maine from what I here. Yo, Kendall is my Maine Man! Jerry |
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18 Aug 03 - 03:46 PM (#1004189) Subject: RE: Electric guitar, anyone? From: Frankham I like playing jazz on the electric. The best jazz sound seems to come from the Gibson 175 with a warm tube amp or a Polytone (like Joe Pass used to use). My 345 has a pretty warm sound and I'm anxious to get it back from the shop where it is being rewired to it's original stereo pickups. As I understand it, the 345 was the original "Lucille". The Varitone switch makes it more versatile than most. Jazz electric has an entirely different character than on an accoustic or a Django-styled Maccaferri (Selmer Modele). Frank Hamilton |