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Source for Songs Circa 1632?

02 Sep 03 - 11:36 PM (#1011767)
Subject: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Teresa

Hi. Does anyone know of a good source or collection for songs common to the period around 1632 or thereabouts?

Thanks,
Teresa

02 Sep 03 - 11:47 PM (#1011773)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Padre

Teresa,
Do you have a specific country or language in mind? And are you looking for hard copy or internet sources?

Padre

02 Sep 03 - 11:47 PM (#1011775)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

You might start by looking at Bruce Olson's web-site.

03 Sep 03 - 12:12 AM (#1011787)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Teresa

Thanks, George and Padre. Internet would be my first choice, then print. But the abovementioned website is a great start! I am looking for English lyrics, and possibly German instrumentals or dance tunes. Thanks again.
Teresa

03 Sep 03 - 12:26 AM (#1011794)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: masato sakurai

Some songs (lyrics only) are HERE (Blackletter Ballads). There's one broadside of 1632 (the image is illegible, though) at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:
1632

03 Sep 03 - 12:46 AM (#1011798)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Teresa

Thanks, Masato. I'll be having lots of fun. ...
Teresa

03 Sep 03 - 02:47 AM (#1011821)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: pavane

If the Bodleian image is illegible, you might be able to get them to transcribe the words for you - they did this for me on one occasion.

03 Sep 03 - 06:25 AM (#1011888)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

Try the broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw.
1632 was the year that John Wright {1} was faced with the fact his nephew John Wright (2) was also printing broadside ballads, so John Wright (1) started to add his street address to show which John Wright his ballads came from.


Easier, the broadside ballad index includes Stationers' Register entry dates. Just SEARCh through the file for '1632', But some very good ones were issued by Ed. Blackmore, starting in 1633.

03 Sep 03 - 06:08 PM (#1012281)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Teresa

Thanks so much, everybody. I knew I could count on the 'catters--yet again. [BG]

03 Sep 03 - 07:06 PM (#1012317)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Leadfingers

Sorry but I cant help wondering WHY 1632 in partcular ??

03 Sep 03 - 07:09 PM (#1012319)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: vectis

Try Thomas d'Urfey's 'Pils to Purge Melancholy'. Loads of bawdy stuff some still being sung today. He's about the right era.

03 Sep 03 - 07:34 PM (#1012331)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

There's very, very little in 'Pills to Purge Melancholy' that earlier earlier than 1650.

03 Sep 03 - 07:36 PM (#1012333)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Some of the poems of the Cavalier poets (1600s) would make wonderful songs, and some of them have. See Cavalier Poets
See esp. Ben Jonson. Some of his songs from plays and masques are included.
Not what you want, but see his "The Sad Shepherd, or a Tale of Robin Hood," to get a real taste of the poetic literature of the period.

Also see "Melismata, Mvsicall Phansies" from 1611, some with music: Melismata

03 Sep 03 - 08:05 PM (#1012357)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

How did they leave out Wm. Strode at that last click-on, 'Cavalier Poets'? His popular style is much closer to broadsides and folk songs than any poets (and a few of his did get on broadside ballads. His "Ballad of the Caps" is in Pills to Purge Melancholdy, and is one of the oldest pieces in Pills) listed there (who are poets, not songwriters, I forgot if Richard Lovelace was there. He wrote a memorable song "The Pensive Prisioners Apology=To Althea from Prison - Stone walls do not a prison make, Nor Iron bars a cage... If I had the wings of an angel, over these prison walls...)


Most in Pamelia, Melsimata, and Deuteromelia is late 16th century (most there being being found in the Lant MS of c 1580)


1632 is a very bad year for looking at songbooks and manusripts for songs (but poems, yes), but a pretty good one for broadside ballads, and I've already told you how to search for them in a broadside ballad index.

03 Sep 03 - 08:33 PM (#1012373)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

William Strode is not well-represented in internet gleanings (only Chloris and Westwall Downes have made the anthologies). Teresa listed internet as first choice.
Bruce Olson's site is the best, but the other sites are worth a look. Many late 16th c. songs persisted, and I assume that the date "around 1632" means that there is latitude to include some years each way more or less.

03 Sep 03 - 09:46 PM (#1012394)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: masato sakurai

Years and numbers at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads. 1640 and 1641 were productive years.

1625 (3 items)
1626 (1)
1628 (2)
1629 (1)
1630 (1)
1632 (1)
1633 (2)
1635 (1)
1638 (1)
1639 (2)
1640 (18)
1641 (49)
1642 (1)

03 Sep 03 - 10:56 PM (#1012417)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

Tne broadside index, besides Stationers Register entry dates, notes folk song versions by Roud$#, Laws #, and Child#

so if you don't know the original tune you can usually find a traditional one in DT.
The broadside index usually gives only 1 traditional title, so you may have to search a bit in DT for it. For 1st below Laws didn't find the American traditional text (in BFSSNE), so there's no Laws number




DT: Young Bearwell, 1629

Forum: Buffalo Boy/ Dear Old Mountain Boy =Nicol o Cod, 1629

DT: Little Musgrave and Lady Bernard, 1630, Child #81

DT: Farmer's Curst wife, 1630, Child #278
   
Choice of Inventions, 1632, Facsimile in Opies ODNR

Stuttering Lovers, (can't find in DT) is from a manuscript of 1632 c 1632

03 Sep 03 - 11:00 PM (#1012421)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

Stuttering Lovers is in a Forum Thread from stewie.

03 Sep 03 - 11:53 PM (#1012448)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

England's Honour Reviv'd, 1628. Recently discovered in the
binding of an old book. About an incident in Canada in 1628
facsimile on internet.

DT: Geordie, Child #209, 1629

All you that are to Mirth inclined, 1634. English Trad. carol I can't find in DT

DT: Cuckolds all a-row, 1637

DT: Politick Maid? 1637, Child #112
?
DT: I live not where I Love, 1638

04 Sep 03 - 12:32 AM (#1012465)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

DT: Old Maid Song, 1636

04 Sep 03 - 12:44 AM (#1012467)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: GUEST

The original versions of most of the above from GUEST can be found in the Scarce Songs 1 and 2 files at www.erols.com/olsonw.
It the original tune is known, there's an ABC of it, and several tunes discovered subsequent to C. M. Simpson's 'British Broadside Ballad and Its Music' are included. See for example, 'Hallo, my Fancy', (c 1625?) where the original song is found only in the Percy Folio MS, and the tune now found in the Balcarres MS, and translated from lute tablature to modern notation.


Not yet translated is the tune "The Gaberlunzie (beggar) man", (prob. in DT) whose presence in the MS takes it back to about 25 years earlier than any copy of text or tune now known.

04 Sep 03 - 04:42 PM (#1012858)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Source for Songs Circa 1632?
From: Teresa

Well, Leadfingers, SF is my other big passion, and there is some fannish activity around an alternate-universe setting. You can find out more here:
Eric Flint'sPage
... and go to "work in progress". Feel free to private message me
T